The Hierarchy of Submission to God

[pureinheart]

Thank you. I do believe TFW's knowledge of the Bible from cover to cover is better than mine. All I've ever claimed up be good at is sniffing out BS. In a world where truth is everywhere and righteousness is natural in the hearts of people, I would run out of work.

 

Well.... you have PLENTY of work! I think your (meaning you and TFW) teaching styles compliment each other.

 

Sniffing out the BS is a gift. Truth has a different flow than a lie. I can't put it into words. I can almost feel it when someone is lying. My mother had a really good BS meter lol. One of my favorite shows was "Lie to me", man that was an excellent informative series and the main actor in that was so cool.

[autumnnight]

It's also interesting to note that when Jesus turned over the tables He was rebuking the church of the day, not unbelievers. If you actually read the gospels, His approach with non-believers was very different from His approach with so-called believers. I hear a lot of people who are just plain tactless use the money changers table incident to justify speaking cruelly to non-believers. However, this is not Biblical.

[skydiveaddict]

You could say the same of any religion.

 

No way girl. There's a HUGE difference.

 

If you're into the occult you are openly inviting evil into your soul. It may seem harmless to you, but it aint. Folks do bad bad things when they start worshipping evil.

 

I'm tellin ya, it will **** you up for the rest of your life.

 

Keep in mind that I'm a beer swilling irish catholic redneck. So I'm by no means free from sin. But there are lines that I will simply not cross. Not for any reason.

Edited December 14, 2014 by skydiveaddict

[M30USA]

It's also interesting to note that when Jesus turned over the tables He was rebuking the church of the day, not unbelievers. If you actually read the gospels, His approach with non-believers was very different from His approach with so-called believers. I hear a lot of people who are just plain tactless use the money changers table incident to justify speaking cruelly to non-believers. However, this is not Biblical.

 

Yep, almost every single "scene" that Jesus had was with those who professed to be followers of God. The non-religious either left him alone or accepted him. But the religious people were self-righteous, believed they already HAD the truth, were part of an elaborate power system, and therefore hated Jesus for shaking things up by merely speaking the truth. The same thing happens today. Those within the church oppose the true Gospel the most.

[BC1980]

No way girl. There's a HUGE difference.

 

If you're into the occult you are openly inviting evil into your soul. It may seem harmless to you, but it aint. Folks do bad bad things when they start worshipping evil.

 

I'm tellin ya, it will **** you up for the rest of your life.

 

Keep in mind that I'm a beer swilling irish catholic redneck. So I'm by no means free from sin. But there are lines that I will simply not cross. Not for any reason.

 

So what about the many things done in the name of Christianity, for example, that have been just plain evil? The problem is the people who are interpreting the religion and are corrupted by the power afforded to them by the religion. I can't speak to every single religion out there, but any religion, in the wrong hands, it capable of great evil. That was my point.

[M30USA]

So what about the many things done in the name of Christianity, for example, that have been just plain evil? The problem is the people who are interpreting the religion and are corrupted by the power afforded to them by the religion. I can't speak to every single religion out there, but any religion, in the wrong hands, it capable of great evil. That was my point.

 

Those atrocities were performed by those who followed religious authorities and not the true words of Christ found in Scripture.

[evanescentworld]

That's probably the most meaningless 'get-out clause' ever spoken.

[M30USA]

That's probably the most meaningless 'get-out clause' ever spoken.

 

No more meaningless than what Jesus said when he rebuked Barrabus for wanting to start a revolt in the name of God.

[BC1980]

Those atrocities were performed by those who followed religious authorities and not the true words of Christ found in Scripture.

 

But any religion in the wrong hands is capable of great evil, especially when there is power involved. I've never said that evil came from the religious teachings themselves, but we can't deny the history of the church. The people who took part in the Inquisition, the Crusades, the witch trials in Europe and colonial America, many of those people believed they were doing what God wanted them to do. I can't really speak to any other religions, but I'm sure there is evidence of evil being done in the name of the religion.

[M30USA]

But any religion in the wrong hands is capable of great evil, especially when there is power involved. I've never said that evil came from the religious teachings themselves, but we can't deny the history of the church. The people who took part in the Inquisition, the Crusades, the witch trials in Europe and colonial America, many of those people believed they were doing what God wanted them to do. I can't really speak to any other religions, but I'm sure there is evidence of evil being done in the name of the religion.

 

EVERY person on the planet believes what they do is correct. This includes Christians, non-Christians, good people, and evil people. Nobody thinks what they are doing is the wrong way--othewise they wouldn't do it! This is why all your points here are irrelevant. Only what God says through the words of Jesus Christ matters.

Edited December 14, 2014 by M30USA

[autumnnight]

I think I understand what is being posed. There HAVE been people who use or used a warped, corrupted, and piecemeal version of God's word and so-called religion to do or be any number of crappy things. I'm thinking Westboro, Jim Jones, the group that beats themselves bloody on a regular basis to be more holy, etc. To me, those groups are the most unsettling of all. because they at least have some weird grain of original truth in them and it can confuse people. I mean, you tell me to stand naked in the middle of a pentagram, offer a sacrifice of my blood, and pledge allegiance to Lucifer, and I'm pretty clear on NOT doing that. But when someone wraps lies in a version of truth that is "sort of" like what people grew up learning in church....it is easy to manipulate and deceive. Lesser examples of this hapen in mainstream denominations every day. The Bible say that we are saved by grace through faith based on What Jesus did for us. But look at all the things churches say we must do to work into a relationship with God:

 

1. Wearing only skirts

2. Never cutting one's hair

3. Taking the Lord's supper every week

4. Being baptised again every time one sins

5. Believe the right thing about the rapture

6. Believing the world is 6,000 years old

7. Not having a piano in the church

8. Speaking in tongues

 

I could list more, but I have actually heard people say that doing or not doing the above are requirements for going to heaven or being a Christian. Bible says....XXX - wrong answer but thank you for playing.

 

When someone bombs an abortion clinic or kills a doctor in the name of Christ, it is NOT Christ they are serving. When a bunch of hateful people protest a funeral waving signs about hell, they are not serving the God of the Bible. When a group of rednecks takes a black man or a gay man out into the woods and beats him to death, they are not serving Jesus.

 

Okay, my rant is done now.

[BC1980]

EVERY person on the planet believes what they do is correct. This includes Christians, non-Christians, good people, and evil people. Nobody thinks what they are doing is the wrong way--othewise they wouldn't do it! This is why all your points here are irrelevant. Only what God says through the words of Jesus Christ matters.

 

I agree with most of what you are saying, but the problem is that fallible, human beings are the ones interpreting what God said through Jesus. It becomes a circular argument in that respect.

[M30USA]

I agree with most of what you are saying, but the problem is that fallible, human beings are the ones interpreting what God said through Jesus. It becomes a circular argument in that respect.

 

The margin of error, so to speak, of interpretation is far less than critics make it out to be. How many different ways can you interpret such things as, "I am the Way, the Truth, the Life" and "no one comes to the Father but by me?" Substitute any number of those words for a synonym in the translation and the meaning is still discernible.

[BC1980]

The margin of error, so to speak, of interpretation is far less than critics make it out to be. How many different ways can you interpret such things as, "I am the Way, the Truth, the Life" and "no one comes to the Father but by me?" Substitute any number of those words for a synonym in the translation and the meaning is still discernible.

 

Well, I would also have to point out that I don't know of any atrocities being committed based on the example you gave. Certainly, there has been much evil based on interpretation of many other verses or ideas promoted by the church over time. It's interesting though. I doubt that much of the evil done was based on relatively few verses compared with the whole of scripture.

 

Just one example is that verse from, I think either Levitucus or Exodus, about not suffering a witch to live. Just nod verse in the wrong hands cost so many lives.

[Ronni_W]

How many different ways can you interpret such things as, "I am the Way, the Truth, the Life" and "no one comes to the Father but by me?" Substitute any number of those words for a synonym in the translation and the meaning is still discernible.

If one assumes that Jesus was egotistical - a super-egotist or narcissist, even - and that when He used the personal pronouns "I" and "me", he was actually referring to his human self in embodiment on Earth - or even to His Electronic Self in the Spiritual Realm - then one's interpretation can be greatly affected and distorted; one's discernment would not be in harmony with Christ Discernment.

 

TheFinalWord, in his earlier post, was entirely on-point when he (TFW) quoted, "But he said to them, 'Not everyone can receive this saying, but only those to whom it is given. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it.'”

Those who want to represent Jesus as egotistical, cannot "receive this saying" in its purity or its truth; cannot clearly discern/understand it nor accurately interpret it.

[M30USA]

If one assumes that Jesus was egotistical - a super-egotist or narcissist, even - and that when He used the personal pronouns "I" and "me", he was actually referring to his human self in embodiment on Earth - or even to His Electronic Self in the Spiritual Realm - then one's interpretation can be greatly affected and distorted; one's discernment would not be in harmony with Christ Discernment.

 

TheFinalWord, in his earlier post, was entirely on-point when he (TFW) quoted, "But he said to them, 'Not everyone can receive this saying, but only those to whom it is given. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it.'”

Those who want to represent Jesus as egotistical, cannot "receive this saying" in its purity or its truth; cannot clearly discern/understand it nor accurately interpret it.

 

This post reeks of obfuscation. It almost sounds like the Maitreya nonsense.

[Ronni_W]

This post reeks of obfuscation. It almost sounds like the Maitreya nonsense.

Hhmmm...I didn't think that TFW was into "Maitreya nonsense" -- I'll have to take another look at the posts. Thanks for pointing it out, though.

[autumnnight]

Not following the whole electrical Jesus thing.....but John 14:6 in context clearly means that belief in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is the only way to salvation and righteousness. No esoteric mumbo jumbo needed. It isn't ego; it's the truth running from Genesis to revelation.

[M30USA]

Not following the whole electrical Jesus thing.....but John 14:6 in context clearly means that belief in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is the only way to salvation and righteousness. No esoteric mumbo jumbo needed. It isn't ego; it's the truth running from Genesis to revelation.

 

Yes. And to preach anything but this, even if it's coming right out of a church, is "a different gospel", in the words of Paul.