Betraying yourself by staying

[velvette]

I think we are both staying in a relationship with hope that it becomes a very good relationship with time. Neither of us have what we want, but that would involve a lobotomy. So we piece together something new. But hopefully, that will include no more crap happening and apparently, an acceptance by me that I'll just have to live with these triggers.

 

 

I don't know how your H feels when you bring this up, but when I read it I get the feeling that this desire to move is as much a test of your H as it is to get away from the triggers.

 

 

That's probably not a great way to inspire your spouse to do what you want or to do something else that would work as well.

 

 

While you certainly have the right to decide what the deal breaking or non-negotiable items are in your M, you don't seem to be able to decide on them. So, really why should he.

 

 

Have you approached this as simply a conversation rather than a test?

 

 

I am guessing he doesn't fully understand the impact of your triggering and that possibly you don't fully understand how important it is to him to stay in his job which more than likely defines a large part of who he is if he's like most men.

 

 

When spouses disagree the only way to have a happy marriage is to find a solution that both people can agree to whole heartedly. That's not the same thing as a compromise where usually both people win and lose something or worse one person wins what they want and the other agrees to lose what they want.

 

 

Have you had a conversation about what things would look like if you did move and he found a new job? How could he make that work? Is he willing to explore it without committing to it yet?

[katielee]

Why? What or how is remaining married to him is holding you back - from changing your life? alternatively - how would being divorced, shared custody issues, possible home loss, money loss and child issues - free you to pursue happiness or things you wish? Or are we talking seeking a deep and pure love with someone else better suited to you?

 

I see you both cheated....this means perhaps both of you are dealing with what you describe maybe?

 

because I want to start fresh - somewhere new, without all the triggers around here. I want to feel safer, living somewhere his 2 OW aren't.

My only pursuit is peace - our children are gone, we can each support ourselves. I would like to seek a deep and pure love with him. But I don't know if I can.

 

We are certainly both dealing with a life that we didn't expect, for sure, with lots of pain. He doesn't have a triggers I do. He said he may kill my AP (and the guy who assaulted me) if he saw them but he's not sure what he would do. He empathizes with me seeing his OW but he doesn't know what to do about it.

[katielee]

 

 

I am guessing he doesn't fully understand the impact of your triggering and that possibly you don't fully understand how important it is to him to stay in his job which more than likely defines a large part of who he is if he's like most men.

 

 

When spouses disagree the only way to have a happy marriage is to find a solution that both people can agree to whole heartedly. That's not the same thing as a compromise where usually both people win and lose something or worse one person wins what they want and the other agrees to lose what they want.

 

 

Have you had a conversation about what things would look like if you did move and he found a new job? How could he make that work? Is he willing to explore it without committing to it yet?

 

this is exactly it. We've had conversations about it. He said you want me to give up my job, your job, all our friends, our children's childhood home and this community? He's not open to it.

I feel like I'm compromising so he can have the life he wants. We NEED to come to some sort of agreement so neither of us feels resentment.

 

does he understand the impact of me triggering - no. I saw him on top of OW2. It's pretty darn hard. And I realize his job is really important to him.

[xxoo]

My only pursuit is peace - our children are gone, we can each support ourselves. I would like to seek a deep and pure love with him. But I don't know if I can.

 

I suspect that for your H to feel peace with you, he needs to have the upper hand. Maybe that will change.

 

Does he have any emotional difficulties being in the same town as his OW?

[katielee]

 

Does he have any emotional difficulties being in the same town as his OW?

 

nope. He says they mean nothing to him.

[xxoo]

nope. He says they mean nothing to him.

 

Does he feel any guilt or regret?

[katielee]

Does he feel any guilt or regret?

 

yes... he's sorry for what he did.

but he says he hasn't seen them.

[ComingInHot]

What are the 2 of you doing together and for each other and yourselves to make this marriage work?

 

For, me? X was great, for a while... then he went back to being not so great. He didn't really do anything to change, or work WITH me towards a better M. And it takes double the work after infidelity.

 

Are you two up for this?

 

CiH*

[Rainbowlove]

What's truly important here is that you work on YOU - so that in the event you decide it's not working or he decides its not working or you both decide it's not working, you are healthy in mind and body and prepared to do what needs to be done...wherever you fall.

 

Only you can catch you from that fall.

 

One day at a time...

[xxoo]

yes... he's sorry for what he did.

but he says he hasn't seen them.

 

But you see them. And there are the places that would trigger.

 

When you see them, does that not cause him pain?

[No Limit]

I know I'd feel this way. To 'keep' me a cheater would have to literally carry me around, kiss the ground I walk on and keep me entertained nonstop. Now of course unless he's a millionaire who doesn't have to work that's hardly going to be possible anyway.

 

Moral high ground? That's just one aspect. The other would be that by cheating you lost the personal value I had for you which makes every other man out there, every stranger who has a story to tell, more interesting than you.

 

And it's not uncommon to feel this way. When the BF of a friend of mine cheated on her she told me a fwe weeks later "Well, if I meet a nice guy, I won't promise I'll stay faithful!" And what kind of a relationship is that? Sounds like neediness/pity if you ask me.

[atreides]

 

Friends say "he loves you so much! you guys are great together. it'll get better in time."

 

This hit home, i was the one at one time saying that to in-laws. I wish i was wiser back then. We all want the happy ending and just use the cliff notes to get by or as Fellini eloquently put, we use terrible cliches.

 

Just from a few of your responses, I suspect you have great days and then something happens where resentment comes in, where you still feel you are not made whole, even if it is clearly in front of you that no wrong is being done, we can't help but feel it. That in part is the incomplete repair of trust and is normal, however your question is about essentially an "opportunity cost" a potential future where you feel whole again by having that trust restored, possibly or continue on and feeling the same and have hopes of being whole again.

Tough waters to charter, but i would say communicate as best as you can and ask H to help with it even if for a temporary time. It seems you are doing some of that but don't feel satisfied with the answers or perhaps how genuine they are?

Let me frame it another way, if you were to move on, do you think you could trust another and not feel that you could have tried harder with your H? Perhaps that is the point your IC is getting at.

[Clay]

I am so sorry you are going through this. This is what has always haunted me. I to this day feel stupid for not leaving my xW sooner. I told my self I would never put up with this. I stayed with her for 10 years. She cheated over and over again until I finally reached my limit. You are just going to have to figure out what you want to do. You will know when you reached your limit.

[katielee]

What are the 2 of you doing together and for each other and yourselves to make this marriage work?

 

For, me? X was great, for a while... then he went back to being not so great. He didn't really do anything to change, or work WITH me towards a better M. And it takes double the work after infidelity.

 

Are you two up for this?

 

CiH*

 

I read like crazy, go to IC, we graduated from MC and we talk and have many positive experiences together. We are planning for our future with grandkids and retirement, vacations....

he goes to IC but doesn't read.

[katielee]

But you see them. And there are the places that would trigger.

 

When you see them, does that not cause him pain?

 

I think he's mostly worried about what I'm going to do - cause a scene (which I don't) or leave him because it's too much for me.

[katielee]

Let me frame it another way, if you were to move on, do you think you could trust another and not feel that you could have tried harder with your H? Perhaps that is the point your IC is getting at.

 

yes to all you said... the trust is not quite there yet. In fact, I told him last night that it feels like he's making decisions for me. I tell him what I need and he is saying, with his actions, you don't need that.

 

I would be wary of trusting another man. That's why I have turned over every stone here and wrung my hands dry with this marriage, I couldn't have tried harder. I'm just waiting for time to go by so I can feel better. It has helped immensely.

[xxoo]

I think he's mostly worried about what I'm going to do - cause a scene (which I don't) or leave him because it's too much for me.

 

In other words, he cares about the consequences, but not about the pain it causes you.

 

I think he needs the upper hand. That peaceful deep love you seek is not possible with him as long as he needs that.

[TrustedthenBusted]

he says he knows its hard for me but he doesn't know what to do.

 

 

both are probably true.

 

If you are inclined to stay, and have kids, then stay and keep working on it. It DOES get better with time.

 

If you do not have kids, you really need ask yourself if you are just AFRAID to leave. Nothing wrong with that.

 

Just remember, when you come on here and ask if you should leave, you will hear a lot of people suggest you should leave, while simultaneously sharing THEIR reasons for not taking the same advice.

 

I believe any two people can make it if they both pull their heads out and work on it.

[Satu]

In some cases, it is possible to repair a relationship that has come completely unglued, but both parties have to really want to. There is no blame or need for shame if one or both parties don't want to.

 

A bit of insight from my own my own experiences might be relevant, but it also might not...

 

*No relationship is more than a day old.*

 

That means that how you feel today about the relationship is what you have. That, and only that.

 

If one or both parties don't invest in the relationship on a daily basis, the relationship withers and dies.

 

People find it very hard to invest when there's been a lot pain.

 

Thats just something I learned on my own journey.

 

A question:

 

Is there any possibility of real forgiveness between the two of you, and if there is, would that feel like the beggining of finding a solution?

 

Could you both become willing to start feeding the relationship again?

 

(There is no wrong answer to this question.)

[FusionCutter]

You can put those phrases on a cute image of a mountain plain somewhere and viral it through facebook and you'll probably get lotsa likes.

 

But if you REALLY asked yourself if that were in fact possible and true, you would know from experience that it is nothing more than an empty slogan.

 

Sometimes cliches are nothing more than that, cliches.

 

If people really wanted to change their life or whatever, they would do it. If someone is truly unhappy with their marriage they would do something about it.

 

If someone was truly unhappy being involved in an affair, they would leave.

 

If someone truly wanted to end a relationship or marriage, they would do it.

 

If someone was truly remorseful for betraying, they would show remorse and fix things.

 

It's not a cliche. It's truth. If you feel you are self betraying yourself, then truly you would get he courage to change a situation. It's unproductive to dance around situations and muse about things. It takes courage to change any difficult situation.

[katielee]

 

 

A question:

 

Is there any possibility of real forgiveness between the two of you, and if there is, would that feel like the beggining of finding a solution?

 

Could you both become willing to start feeding the relationship again?

 

(There is no wrong answer to this question.)

 

I really feel that we are both feeding the relationship. It's just that this is a huge sticking point for me.

[katielee]

It takes courage to change any difficult situation.

 

I think staying and trying is a very courageous act, for both of us.

[nightmare01]

Staying takes much more courage and strength than leaving. In a sense, leaving is the easy way out.

 

Your marriage and your life will never be the same after being betrayed by your spouse. That betrayal will always be a part of you. How much that betrayal affects you in the future depends on you.

 

The decision to stay or go depends on a lot of things, and it's very complex and personal. People tend to give knee-jerk reactions like "you should divorce and move on". Frankly I feel these knee-jerk comments are based on ignorance - I mean, how many of us said or thought that of course we would divorce if our spouse cheated on us, and now that we are in that situation we find the decision much more complex that we thought before.

 

A few key questions to consider:

 

How likely is it that your spouse will cheat again?

Would leaving impact your life more negatively than staying?

If you leave, would the AP have a hand in raising your children?

How much would you loose financially if you left?

How much are you basing your decision on your ego?

 

Notice that these questions are about YOU. How would staying or going affect YOU. This is because the decision should not be based on your WS. By cheating they took themselves out of that equation.

 

Yes, at first staying feels like a self betrayal. A lot of times though that's your ego talking.

 

If your life would genuinely be better without your WS then definitely you should go the divorce route.

 

If on the other hand your WS is doing the work on themselves to make them a somewhat safe bet, and if you can keep your children and be financially stable, then staying might be the way to go.

 

Notice that I don't mention love. IMO love has nothing to do with the decision to stay or go. We KNOW that our WS did not and probably does not love us. If they say they loved us and yet cheated - ask yourself it that's the kind of love you want.

 

My WW and I are still together. She seems a somewhat safe bet as far as not cheating again. I got to finish raising my daughters and now I get to keep my retirement and so can live comfortably and do what I want.

 

As far as my feelings toward my WW - I still love her. BUT should she act out again I will be gone in a heart beat. My WW is definitely a plan B when it comes to the person I wanted to marry, but life is what it is. I accept that her LTA happened, and there is nothing I can do to make it un-happen. Plan A was a loving faithful wife, but that didn't happen and I accept that. Life is unfair. Life is a bitch. Who we are is not defined by what happens to us, but in how we react the the pitfalls of life. I have a good life now. As far as my relationship with my WW goes, it's fine.. and it is what it is.

[Satu]

I really feel that we are both feeding the relationship. It's just that this is a huge sticking point for me.

 

Understood.

 

Staying or leaving both demand a lot of you.

 

It's not easy by any means.

 

All I can add to what's been said, is to focus on taking care of yourself, and your needs, until you reach the point of feeling able make this very difficult decision.

 

I wish I could help more.

[katielee]

Staying takes much more courage and strength than leaving. In a sense, leaving is the easy way out.

 

 

 

How likely is it that your spouse will cheat again?

Would leaving impact your life more negatively than staying?

If you leave, would the AP have a hand in raising your children?

How much would you loose financially if you left?

How much are you basing your decision on your ego?

 

 

-Likely he'll never cheat again. I'm not doing it, so he will likely not do it.

-Negatively - I'd have to see him with another woman and that would kill me. We'd have to share weddings and holildays together still. I love his company and would miss him.

Yet, I'd have more freedom, and could maybe find a guy I could trust more.

-there is no AP involvement and our kids are grown.

-money doesn't have an impact. I can support myself and we have a lot saved. I have a pension.

-not sure. Seems like I've accepted two affairs. That is all I'm willing to accept. I think many women would leave after one.

 

And love - that IS important to me. He loves me and I love him. We maybe stopped loving ourselves when we had affairs but we love now.