Betraying yourself by staying

[nightmare01]

-Likely he'll never cheat again. I'm not doing it, so he will likely not do it.

-Negatively - I'd have to see him with another woman and that would kill me. We'd have to share weddings and holildays together still. I love his company and would miss him.

Yet, I'd have more freedom, and could maybe find a guy I could trust more.

-there is no AP involvement and our kids are grown.

-money doesn't have an impact. I can support myself and we have a lot saved. I have a pension.

-not sure. Seems like I've accepted two affairs. That is all I'm willing to accept. I think many women would leave after one.

 

And love - that IS important to me. He loves me and I love him. We maybe stopped loving ourselves when we had affairs but we love now.

 

Don't concern yourself with what others would do. They don't know your situation, only you know that.

 

Make your decision based on what's important to YOU. What other people think doesn't matter.

[drifter777]

Staying takes much more courage and strength than leaving. In a sense, leaving is the easy way out.

 

I doubt you meant such a sweeping statement. Certainly in my case I stayed because I was very weak and her cheating made me question nearly everything I thought I knew about life, love, marriage, and happiness. I was terrified at the thought of facing this strange new world alone. But it was the biggest mistake of my life to stay and I will never forgive myself for not divorcing her.

 

My WW and I are still together. She seems a somewhat safe bet as far as not cheating again. I got to finish raising my daughters and now I get to keep my retirement and so can live comfortably and do what I want.

I could have written this - it describes me and my life to a T. Two son's and one daughter but otherwise identical. I can't say that I love my wife - certainly not the way I want to love the woman I live with. But I'm not sure our relationship is not much different then most long term marriages.

[nightmare01]

I think leaving for the sake of your ego alone is a mistake. But it's hard to NOT generalize when talking about this stuff.

 

It's a matter of putting the LTA in your rear view mirror and just moving on with your life. My feelings for my WW will never be what they were, or could have been - but this is the path my life has taken, and it's up to me to make the best of it.

[xxoo]

he absolutely was destroyed by my affair. he said he'd rather one of our children died. However, believe he feels I need to be more understanding of HIM because he's already suffered.

 

What would he like you to understand?

[katielee]

What would he like you to understand?

 

That leaving his job would be a huge loss for him and he's suffered enough.

Our MC said whoever can get rid of the resentment should. WTH?

[drifter777]

I think leaving for the sake of your ego alone is a mistake. But it's hard to NOT generalize when talking about this stuff.

 

It's a matter of putting the LTA in your rear view mirror and just moving on with your life. My feelings for my WW will never be what they were, or could have been - but this is the path my life has taken, and it's up to me to make the best of it.

Actually, no. This is the life path you have chosen.

 

I don't think leaving for the sake of your ego is a mistake. Since ego is a label for self-esteem and self-image, I can't think of anything more important in a person's life. I believe it is the single most important element of happiness or peace of mind.

 

If a man's self-esteem is strong enough to not be devastated by his wife cheating on him then that man has a good chance to reconcile if that is the path he chooses. Lacking that, reconciliation is not worth it because the best he will ever get is unhappily married to someone he resents.

[nightmare01]

That leaving his job would be a huge loss for him and he's suffered enough.

Our MC said whoever can get rid of the resentment should. WTH?

 

Resentment -

I will ALWAYS resent my WW for what she did. ALWAYS.

 

Do you resent your BH?

 

If you want to stay with him you should be ready to make some sacrifices... these are consequences related to your affair. You either accept them, or you don't.

 

If you are not willing to give up things like privacy (giving him access to all your email, phone, etc), or you are wanting him to leave his job, or leave behind all people that knew of your affair or know OM, then IMO you don't have any remorse over what you did.

 

How can any person be expected to forgive a person who has no remorse over that they did? How can any person be expected not to feel resentment in regard to an affair?

[xxoo]

That leaving his job would be a huge loss for him and he's suffered enough.

Our MC said whoever can get rid of the resentment should. WTH?

 

Your MC is right. Somebody has to "give".

 

What was your H like before your affair? Was he a cruel guy?

 

If he was a good and decent guy, happy with even footing, before the affair, it is reasonable to see his behavior as evidence of his continuing hurt. He acted out, but never healed. Even now, when you are requesting healing, he still is trying to heal. He feels at peace with his "position", but not complete peace within the relationship.

 

If you could accept his need to be "positioned" a certain way as a byproduct of being a betrayed spouse, and forgive and accept that for the time being (really accept it: empathize the the fragile and flawed human he is and let him have this over you for the time being without asking for even footing), maybe he'd heal and be able to provide you with more.

[katielee]

Resentment -

 

 

If you want to stay with him you should be ready to make some sacrifices... these are consequences related to your affair. You either accept them, or you don't.

 

If you are not willing to give up things like privacy (giving him access to all your email, phone, etc), or you are wanting him to leave his job, or leave behind all people that knew of your affair or know OM, then IMO you don't have any remorse over what you did.

 

How can any person be expected to forgive a person who has no remorse over that they did? How can any person be expected not to feel resentment in regard to an affair?

 

I;m not quite sure you understand my story. The consequence of my affair may have been two of his RA and I'm still here, yet I'm sure as heck not putting up with anything else.

Privacy - that's old news - he has access to anything he wants.

Remorse - well, read some of my posts on other threads here....

we both have remorse.

 

so by your last statement you're saying that my resentment is justified. I think in reconciliation and a healthy marriage there is no room for resentment and I'm not sure how I get past it.

[katielee]

Your MC is right. Somebody has to "give".

 

What was your H like before your affair? Was he a cruel guy?

 

If he was a good and decent guy, happy with even footing, before the affair, it is reasonable to see his behavior as evidence of his continuing hurt. He acted out, but never healed. Even now, when you are requesting healing, he still is trying to heal. He feels at peace with his "position", but not complete peace within the relationship.

 

If you could accept his need to be "positioned" a certain way as a byproduct of being a betrayed spouse, and forgive and accept that for the time being (really accept it: empathize the the fragile and flawed human he is and let him have this over you for the time being without asking for even footing), maybe he'd heal and be able to provide you with more.

 

he was not cruel at all! good guy!

 

yep he acted out, didn't heal. But I can't keep staying here getting hurt waiting for him to heal. There are consequences to his choices and one of them is losing me if he can't get himself together, no matter where that pain stems from. I stayed after the first one because I know I caused that pain. No more! Yet here I am.

 

I certainly empathize with him as a BS and understand how he couldn't heal and turned to something else to mask his pain. but I can't understand doing it a second time. And I can't understand how he sees his wife in pain and won't move mountains to try to ease SOME of this for her.

[xxoo]

I certainly empathize with him as a BS and understand how he couldn't heal and turned to something else to mask his pain. but I can't understand doing it a second time. And I can't understand how he sees his wife in pain and won't move mountains to try to ease SOME of this for her.

 

Because he caused the pain on purpose.

 

If and when he heals, he may show true remorse and be willing to move mountains.

[katielee]

Because he caused the pain on purpose.

 

If and when he heals, he may show true remorse and be willing to move mountains.

 

and what to do in the meantime but work on myself? or run out of patience.

[xxoo]

and what to do in the meantime but work on myself? or run out of patience.

 

I'm not saying you should or can accept it.

 

But to have any peace with him, I believe you'll need to accept it.

 

Maybe do some reading on acceptance, and where that comes from, how people have managed to accept things that they previously thought they could not, etc. See if any of it resonates, or provides any clarity on whether this is or is not your path.

[elaine567]

I certainly empathize with him as a BS and understand how he couldn't heal and turned to something else to mask his pain. but I can't understand doing it a second time. And I can't understand how he sees his wife in pain and won't move mountains to try to ease SOME of this for her.

 

You have to leave, you cannot be expected to wear the hair shirt forever.

[velvette]

and what to do in the meantime but work on myself? or run out of patience.

 

To me this statement and other stuff you have said indicates you are not all in when it comes to your M. If your H also hears it that way there is no way he could feel safe with you.

 

 

You are asking him to give up everything he values for a M he probably still doesn't feel safe in. And, what you are asking him to do is huge.

 

 

And, however it happened, you are both making it into an either or situation. What are the solutions in between each position?

 

 

Is there a nearby town he could commute from. Could you live with that if you lived somewhere else but he still worked in the current town. Somewhere close enough to maintain ties with friends if you want.

 

 

Could he rearrange his job so he works more from home.

 

 

Are you anywhere near retirement. Could you pick a retirement destination, buy a second home and work towards a gradual relocation.

 

 

What else? There must be more than one solution to this dilemma. Have the two of you actually sat down and tried to brainstorm all the ways you could solve this? Maybe you need to revisit MC and have this conversation with a moderator.

 

 

In the meantime, have you looked into other therapy that would help you with the triggers. Someone who deals specifically with PTSD. Hypnosis...for example where they walk you through finding him with OW and rewrite the ending to something that empowers you.

 

 

EMDR therapy which I haven't used but have heard is very effective for this sort of trauma.

 

 

And, finally, have you considered actively reclaiming your town and all the things that trigger you rather than letting them trigger you?

 

 

As for resentment, you can let that go if you choose to. What would happen if you let it go?

[dichotomy]

You both cheated (ok him twice). I have to imagine there are trust and resentment issues and blame all around.

 

But your kids are gone, and your financially secure on your own. Seems you are both free and clear. What holds you to him and he to you?

 

Why don't both of you move somewhere out of the reminders of AP's and start a new second life? How far are either of you from retiring at this point?

 

I could not stand to see my WW's OM or past partners, or even tolerate my wife seeing them indirectly at a conference or something - I would go nuts. Fortunately they are 750 miles away in her old home state. She has not gone back there in years to avoid hurting our marriage. I feel for you. It must hurt.

Edited December 18, 2014 by dichotomy

[katielee]

To me this statement and other stuff you have said indicates you are not all in when it comes to your M. If your H also hears it that way there is no way he could feel safe with you.

 

 

You are asking him to give up everything he values for a M he probably still doesn't feel safe in. And, what you are asking him to do is huge.

 

 

And, however it happened, you are both making it into an either or situation. What are the solutions in between each position?

 

 

Is there a nearby town he could commute from. Could you live with that if you lived somewhere else but he still worked in the current town. Somewhere close enough to maintain ties with friends if you want.

 

 

Could he rearrange his job so he works more from home.

 

 

Are you anywhere near retirement. Could you pick a retirement destination, buy a second home and work towards a gradual relocation.

 

 

What else? There must be more than one solution to this dilemma. Have the two of you actually sat down and tried to brainstorm all the ways you could solve this? Maybe you need to revisit MC and have this conversation with a moderator.

 

 

In the meantime, have you looked into other therapy that would help you with the triggers. Someone who deals specifically with PTSD. Hypnosis...for example where they walk you through finding him with OW and rewrite the ending to something that empowers you.

 

 

EMDR therapy which I haven't used but have heard is very effective for this sort of trauma.

 

 

And, finally, have you considered actively reclaiming your town and all the things that trigger you rather than letting them trigger you?

 

 

As for resentment, you can let that go if you choose to. What would happen if you let it go?

 

velvette - many things I have considered.

I can only be truthful with him and he says he feels safe with me. But maybe not. I do not pretend. I have reservations and he knows it. I am not in with both feet every day but I try. He knows this.

 

I realize I am asking him to give up something big for a M that is not a sure thing. He is also asking me to live the rest of my life with him, in the same town as his OW, and he is not a sure thing. I just have to have faith he's being truthful. And that is a step I've made.

 

I have had EMDR therapy to deal with the flashbacks of seeing them together. It helped but I feel I shouldn't ever have to see her again. enough.

 

I am not afraid to go anywhere in this town. But I also react physically when I see them, and that I can't control. He dated these women all over town and we have reclaimed most of these places and they don't bother me.

 

I have brainstormed like crazy, he has offered nothing. Here are the things I have thought about: we stay here but I get to choose where we retire, we buy a lake home and spend a lot of our time there, I get a punching bag, I spend 1k anytime I see them, we move to a suburb town, he signs a post- nup, we try to run them out of town some way.

 

Believe me, I've tried to think outside the box here. His job is very community oriented, he must be visual in the community and he cant' work from home.

 

letting resentment go - i have no idea what that would feel like. Giving up, I think. you win honey. It makes my skin crawl to consider living like everything is ok.

Edited December 18, 2014 by katielee
changed sentence

[katielee]

You both cheated (ok him twice). I have to imagine there are trust and resentment issues and blame all around.

 

But your kids are gone, and your financially secure on your own. Seems you are both free and clear. What holds you to him and he to you?

 

Why don't both of you move somewhere out of the reminders of AP's and start a new second life? How far are either of you from retiring at this point?

 

I could not stand to see my WW's OM or past partners, or even tolerate my wife seeing them indirectly at a conference or something - I would go nuts. Fortunately they are 750 miles away in her old home state. She has not gone back there in years to avoid hurting our marriage. I feel for you. It must hurt.

 

we love each other, have a history with memories and the kids, enjoy each others company....

he doesn't want to move, that is why. I would love to. We are 12 years from retirement.

thank you for understanding.... when he says to me he would likely kill my AP if he saw him and then expects me to hold my head high seeing his (he would say he doesnt' expect this) then the double standard is frustrating.

[xxoo]

letting resentment go - i have no idea what that would feel like. Giving up, I think. you win honey. It makes my skin crawl to consider living like everything is ok.

 

Maybe it would look like a powerful act of love.

 

Win is an interesting choice of words. Might it not be a win for both of you?

 

(I'm not trying to talk you into anything, just exploring the idea)

[katielee]

Maybe it would look like a powerful act of love.

 

Win is an interesting choice of words. Might it not be a win for both of you?

 

(I'm not trying to talk you into anything, just exploring the idea)

 

staying, and I may add trying hard to forgive, after the 2nd affair was my big act of love. I've got nothing left for more crap.

 

A give up on resentment by either side would be a win for both! for sure!! if only it didn't feel like I was losing my left arm.

[velvette]

velvette - many things I have considered.

I can only be truthful with him and he says he feels safe with me. But maybe not. I do not pretend. I have reservations and he knows it. I am not in with both feet every day but I try. He knows this.

 

I realize I am asking him to give up something big for a M that is not a sure thing. He is also asking me to live the rest of my life with him, in the same town as his OW, and he is not a sure thing. I just have to have faith he's being truthful. And that is a step I've made.

 

I have had EMDR therapy to deal with the flashbacks of seeing them together. It helped but I feel I shouldn't ever have to see her again. enough.

 

I am not afraid to go anywhere in this town. But I also react physically when I see them, and that I can't control. He dated these women all over town and we have reclaimed most of these places and they don't bother me.

 

I have brainstormed like crazy, he has offered nothing. Here are the things I have thought about: we stay here but I get to choose where we retire, we buy a lake home and spend a lot of our time there, I get a punching bag, I spend 1k anytime I see them, we move to a suburb town, he signs a post- nup, we try to run them out of town some way.

 

Believe me, I've tried to think outside the box here. His job is very community oriented, he must be visual in the community and he cant' work from home.

 

letting resentment go - i have no idea what that would feel like. Giving up, I think. you win honey. It makes my skin crawl to consider living like everything is ok.

 

Did you have this conversation about options with a marriage counselor? Can you go back and do that? Hard to believe they would just let him get away with offering nothing.

 

 

The bolded statement sounds like a power struggle. Turning something into a power struggle is a losing proposition no matter how it turns out.

 

 

This isn't about winning or losing, or at least it shouldn't be. Its about being happy. And, btw, sometimes being happy comes down to a choice to be happy even if your current circumstances are not ideal.

 

 

But, if you feel this strongly about it, why haven't you just told your H you cant/wont live in the town you are in.

[katielee]

[/b]

 

Did you have this conversation about options with a marriage counselor? Can you go back and do that? Hard to believe they would just let him get away with offering nothing.

 

 

The bolded statement sounds like a power struggle. Turning something into a power struggle is a losing proposition no matter how it turns out.

 

 

This isn't about winning or losing, or at least it shouldn't be. Its about being happy. And, btw, sometimes being happy comes down to a choice to be happy even if your current circumstances are not ideal.

 

 

But, if you feel this strongly about it, why haven't you just told your H you cant/wont live in the town you are in.

 

Yes it's a power struggle..

If we lived far from his APs it would still be less than ideal for what I want for my

Life, but i could possibly choose happiness. This other crap is over the top stuff that blocks me from getting there. It's too much.

 

Telling him I wont live here is us moving and him having resentment or breaking up. This is tough...

[nightmare01]

Yes it's a power struggle..

If we lived far from his APs it would still be less than ideal for what I want for my

Life, but i could possibly choose happiness. This other crap is over the top stuff that blocks me from getting there. It's too much.

 

Telling him I wont live here is us moving and him having resentment or breaking up. This is tough...

 

Ok, I've caught up - sorry for my confusion.

 

Your husband having to leave his job and move is just one of the consequences of his cheating. An RA is just another affair - revenge is just an excuse. LOTS of us are betrayed, but only a few go and use being betrayed as an excuse to cheat themselves.

 

Moving away is important - if it can be done I think it should be. We moved 1500 miles away - this removes me from being triggered by the places they were together and from the constant anxiety of possibly running into OM in a public place.

 

If your WH doesn't like it - tough - he shouldn't have cheated. He can get another job somewhere else.

[xxoo]

Yes it's a power struggle..

If we lived far from his APs it would still be less than ideal for what I want for my

Life, but i could possibly choose happiness. This other crap is over the top stuff that blocks me from getting there. It's too much.

 

Telling him I wont live here is us moving and him having resentment or breaking up. This is tough...

 

You are torturing yourself by staying and holding onto the resentment. That you are doing to yourself.

 

Only because you seem to really want to stay in the marriage, and he isn't budging on moving, and the only thing you can control then is you....

 

Why is it too much to accept staying there? Don't answer because you stayed after the 2nd affair. That's in the past. Why is it too much, right now, to simply let go of the anger, resentment, sense of unfairness, and choose to accept the past and move on from it choosing to give the gift of forgiveness to your husband and to yourself?

[Selfish]

Kaitlee I encourage you to go and read every single post you have written. Or at least thread you have started.

 

you are on a merry go round and need to get off.