Betraying yourself by staying

[katielee]

Yep I know I'm on the merry go round and need to get off.

 

everyone has their line xxoo.

 

Last night he asked me not to give up on us.

[FusionCutter]

What does living authentically mean to you? Forget about courage or the right thing. What in your heart do you want to do? How do you want to live? What do you want to accomplish?

[Selfish]

Yep I know I'm on the merry go round and need to get off.

 

everyone has their line xxoo.

 

Last night he asked me not to give up on us.

 

 

But where is yours? Your posts have been pretty much on the same theme. What are you waiting for? His agreeing to move? And how long will you give him before you take action?

[katielee]

What does living authentically mean to you? Forget about courage or the right thing. What in your heart do you want to do? How do you want to live? What do you want to accomplish?

 

good question

I want to be desperately in love and not settling for my romantic partner treating me any way but with respect and love.

authentically means being very very honest with loved ones and most especially yourself.

My heart - I don't know - but giving into this I can't do.

 

How do I want to live? I want to live life to the fullest and be happy and peaceful. I want to be a role model for my children.

What do I want to accomplish? Self confidence - knowing and being ok with how I'm living... it doesn't mean doing a lot either. just being. I've already done a lot.

 

 

if one of the reasons he's not willing to move is because I'm not a sure thing then he doesn't trust me either. Or have both feet in. We're both spinning in circles.

[katielee]

But where is yours? Your posts have been pretty much on the same theme. What are you waiting for? His agreeing to move? And how long will you give him before you take action?

 

I dont' know. My IC says I will know when I know.

Maybe i just want him to make one f u c k i n g big empathetic gesture... thought of by himself. Would that be so bad?

when I try to think of options to solve this he puts his head in his hands. Really? You solve problems for people all day and you can't put any time into solving this? You can't read a book about affairs or apologies or how to love people?

[katielee]

You are torturing yourself by staying and holding onto the resentment. That you are doing to yourself.

 

Only because you seem to really want to stay in the marriage, and he isn't budging on moving, and the only thing you can control then is you....

 

Why is it too much to accept staying there? Don't answer because you stayed after the 2nd affair. That's in the past. Why is it too much, right now, to simply let go of the anger, resentment, sense of unfairness, and choose to accept the past and move on from it choosing to give the gift of forgiveness to your husband and to yourself?

 

because I would feel like a freaking doormat! Walk all over me and I'll forgive, do whatever you want and I'll forgive. Jeez. He didn't forgive me. He stabbed me in the back. Twice. I can't do that. the only thing I can do is stay without resentment or leave with dignity.

[FusionCutter]

good question

I want to be desperately in love and not settling for my romantic partner treating me any way but with respect and love.

authentically means being very very honest with loved ones and most especially yourself.

My heart - I don't know - but giving into this I can't do.

 

How do I want to live? I want to live life to the fullest and be happy and peaceful. I want to be a role model for my children.

What do I want to accomplish? Self confidence - knowing and being ok with how I'm living... it doesn't mean doing a lot either. just being. I've already done a lot.

 

 

if one of the reasons he's not willing to move is because I'm not a sure thing then he doesn't trust me either. Or have both feet in. We're both spinning in circles.

 

Okay, you have clear cut answers. In your opinion, whats the best way to get to where you want to be?

[Selfish]

From the outside it in it looks like this.

 

You would be able to move on and heal if HE would read some books. If HE would be a little more empathetic. If HE would decided to move. if HE would show a little more remorse. if HE would x,y,z.

 

But you know, I know, everyone knows. HE will do what he wants. You cannot make him behave and act the way you want. Posting and getting the same advice won't change him.

 

nothing will change him unless he decides to do some changes.

 

Think of it like staying with an abusive partner. So many people hang around because most days the abuser is a "good" partner. And they keep hoping the person will change. But if the abuser never takes serious action towards changing they aren't going to magically stop being abusive one day. And that is why people are encouraged and empowered to leave abusive partners. Because waiting around for someone to be proactive helps nothing.

[xxoo]

because I would feel like a freaking doormat! Walk all over me and I'll forgive, do whatever you want and I'll forgive. Jeez. He didn't forgive me. He stabbed me in the back. Twice. I can't do that. the only thing I can do is stay without resentment or leave with dignity.

 

A different perspective (not arguing with you....honestly, I'd leave...):

 

Two people cheated. Both were "worse" from the perspective of the betrayed, and it's pointless to argue who has more to forgive.

 

Two people can put it ALL in the past and forgive each other, because they love each other and want to stay together.

 

One has forgiven. One hasn't.

[FusionCutter]

From the outside it in it looks like this.

 

You would be able to move on and heal if HE would read some books. If HE would be a little more empathetic. If HE would decided to move. if HE would show a little more remorse. if HE would x,y,z.

 

But you know, I know, everyone knows. HE will do what he wants. You cannot make him behave and act the way you want. Posting and getting the same advice won't change him.

 

nothing will change him unless he decides to do some changes.

 

Think of it like staying with an abusive partner. So many people hang around because most days the abuser is a "good" partner. And they keep hoping the person will change. But if the abuser never takes serious action towards changing they aren't going to magically stop being abusive one day. And that is why people are encouraged and empowered to leave abusive partners. Because waiting around for someone to be proactive helps nothing.

 

Such truth.

[Satu]

good question

I want to be desperately in love and not settling for my romantic partner treating me any way but with respect and love.

authentically means being very very honest with loved ones and most especially yourself.

My heart - I don't know - but giving into this I can't do.

 

How do I want to live? I want to live life to the fullest and be happy and peaceful. I want to be a role model for my children.

What do I want to accomplish? Self confidence - knowing and being ok with how I'm living... it doesn't mean doing a lot either. just being. I've already done a lot.

 

 

if one of the reasons he's not willing to move is because I'm not a sure thing then he doesn't trust me either. Or have both feet in. We're both spinning in circles.

 

You're definitely not wrong in wanting what you want. Your wanting belongs to you.

 

Whether you stay or go, you have to do the same thing, which is getting to the point of loving yourself in a very real and constant way.

 

I never thought I'd ever get to that point, but I did, and I feel that thats where my life started to make sense to me.

[katielee]

I get the not changing thing but he's far from an abuser.

 

And he didn't forgive until he got a couple RA in, if at all. not really forgiveness..,

[katielee]

You're definitely not wrong in wanting what you want. Your wanting belongs to you.

 

Whether you stay or go, you have to do the same thing, which is getting to the point of loving yourself in a very real and constant way.

 

I never thought I'd ever get to that point, but I did, and I feel that thats where my life started to make sense to me.

 

 

How did you get to that point?

[Satu]

How did you get to that point?

 

It's a long story, but I betrothed myself to myself.

 

I decided to come out of the closet and only ever be who I really am - exactly the same person on the outside as I am on the inside.

 

There's much more to it than that, but I think you understand what I'm saying.

 

Here's something I learned on my journey:

 

Nobody can love you more than you love yourself.

[xxoo]

And he didn't forgive until he got a couple RA in, if at all. not really forgiveness..,

 

Revenge and giving forgiveness are two very different things. It is possible to seek the former, and then progress to the latter. Many could have a series of RAs and never move on, but he's chosen to move on from that and rededicate himself to you after your betrayal.

[velvette]

Yes it's a power struggle..

If we lived far from his APs it would still be less than ideal for what I want for my

Life, but i could possibly choose happiness. This other crap is over the top stuff that blocks me from getting there. It's too much.

 

Telling him I wont live here is us moving and him having resentment or breaking up. This is tough...

 

Which other crap? I thought moving was the sticking point.

 

 

Have you guys always been in power struggles. Is that what your A was about?

[katielee]

Revenge and giving forgiveness are two very different things. It is possible to seek the former, and then progress to the latter. Many could have a series of RAs and never move on, but he's chosen to move on from that and rededicate himself to you after your betrayal.

 

 

Well it may be too late.

 

And the crap I refer to is being here with the OW, him still working in the business community with them, and him being less than empathetic than I need him to be.

 

Simply not cheating is not rededicating yourself to a marriage.theres actual work involved usually...

[velvette]

Well it may be too late.

 

And the crap I refer to is being here with the OW, him still working in the business community with them, and him being less than empathetic than I need him to be.

 

Simply not cheating is not rededicating yourself to a marriage.theres actual work involved usually...

 

OK.....so you want him to give up everything he values, move and even then that may not be enough? Who would take that deal?

 

 

You didn't answer me about the power struggles and you don't have to, but I think its important you answer it for yourself. If this is a continuation of power struggles that have always existed then you need to address that somehow. If its new then you still need to address it.

 

 

Power is deciding what you want and asking for it. Then you have to decide if the response is satisfactory or not and take action accordingly.

 

 

I think this desire for a grand gesture is a bit immature. But, if it is because you don't feel loved then you need to let him know what you need on a daily basis to feel loved.

 

 

You can move away, but after the excitement of establishing a whole new life, you will still be the same people with the same problems. Not seeing the OW around town will not resolve these other things.

 

 

Maybe a trial separation would help you both clarify what you want and whether or not you would be happier apart than together.

[Selfish]

I get the not changing thing but he's far from an abuser.

I didn't say he was. I was using it as an example to make my point.

[katielee]

OK.....so you want him to give up everything he values, move and even then that may not be enough? Who would take that deal?

 

 

You didn't answer me about the power struggles and you don't have to, but I think its important you answer it for yourself. If this is a continuation of power struggles that have always existed then you need to address that somehow. If its new then you still need to address it.

 

 

Power is deciding what you want and asking for it. Then you have to decide if the response is satisfactory or not and take action accordingly.

 

 

I think this desire for a grand gesture is a bit immature. But, if it is because you don't feel loved then you need to let him know what you need on a daily basis to feel loved.

 

 

You can move away, but after the excitement of establishing a whole new life, you will still be the same people with the same problems. Not seeing the OW around town will not resolve these other things.

 

 

Maybe a trial separation would help you both clarify what you want and whether or not you would be happier apart than together.

 

I dont know what to say about power struggles. Yes. I feel fairly powerless in this relationship. Not sure why.

 

Power - I decided what I wanted, a fresh start away from all the triggers and told him. He gave his response. Doesn't want to. Now I have to stay with no resentment or leave. Pretty simple.

 

We are very different ppl. I would do this for him. That's why it's hard for me to understand.

i don't think theres anything wrong with a grand gesture. What else should I do? Say everything is ok honey? Here's a pat on the back for agreeing to stay with me after f u c k I n g me over...

You did your acting out but you're done now so we're good.

[Selfish]

i don't think theres anything wrong with a grand gesture. What else should I do? Say everything is ok honey? Here's a pat on the back for agreeing to stay with me after f u c k I n g me over...

You did your acting out but you're done now so we're good.

 

Your anger and resentment are clear. What isn't clear is why you'd rather complain about his inaction rather than take responsibility for your own.

 

You got your answer. He isn't moving.

 

either let it go, or move. The third choice is you stay in the marriage, enjoying the good days but letting the resentment and anger build. Until one day it explodes. or your own mental health is at stake.

[velvette]

I dont know what to say about power struggles. Yes. I feel fairly powerless in this relationship. Not sure why.

 

Power - I decided what I wanted, a fresh start away from all the triggers and told him. He gave his response. Doesn't want to. Now I have to stay with no resentment or leave. Pretty simple.

 

We are very different ppl. I would do this for him. That's why it's hard for me to understand.

i don't think theres anything wrong with a grand gesture. What else should I do? Say everything is ok honey? Here's a pat on the back for agreeing to stay with me after f u c k I n g me over...

You did your acting out but you're done now so we're good.

 

 

I don't understand how you got dismissed from marriage counseling when you have this much anger, there is one or more power struggles going on and you have these unresolved issues. Maybe you need to go back or find a different therapist.

 

 

You H is never going to be you and if he was you probably wouldn't be in love with or want to be married to him.

 

 

What good would the grand gesture of moving do if he was miserable after agreeing to it?

 

 

I am not unsympathetic to how you feel about this having been through it myself. We did ultimately move, but it was something we had always planned to do long before the A.

 

 

I am also not unsympathetic to how distressing it feels to be in a limbo where you cant decide what to do. To some extent your therapist is correct, you will decide when you decide.

 

 

But, in my experience, if you know you should leave you leave. If you don't, more than likely whats going on is that you are afraid to go all in with or without having every last thing met immediately that you want.

 

 

You want to be like a normal BS who dictates all the terms of reconciliation with a remorseful H who is willing to do anything. But, it cant work that way for you because you both cheated.

 

 

To me it sounds like your need to feel safe and loved in this R is not being met and if you did some work on that you might be better able to let go of this anger and resentment. If you let go of the anger and resentment, you might be able to find an approach that would work better in getting what you want or you might not care anymore about moving.

[velvette]

i don't think theres anything wrong with a grand gesture. What else should I do? Say everything is ok honey? Here's a pat on the back for agreeing to stay with me after f u c k I n g me over...

You did your acting out but you're done now so we're good.

 

BTW this is very condescending and disrespectful. If you convey this attitude to your H no wonder he's not interested in rearranging his life for you.

 

 

The cheating will never be ok. No one is saying that. At some point though you have to forgive and let it go or go your separate ways.

 

 

What are you gaining by hanging onto this?

[xxoo]

i don't think theres anything wrong with a grand gesture. What else should I do? Say everything is ok honey? Here's a pat on the back for agreeing to stay with me after f u c k I n g me over...

You did your acting out but you're done now so we're good.

 

Replace pronouns. You screwed him over, too.

 

Both acted out, and it's all done.

 

What did you expect to happen when you cheated on him? Most men leave. He took his pound of flesh and stayed. You could consider yourself lucky to have the choice of staying or leaving, because many ww don't have that choice.

[katielee]

and again in this forum it always comes to : you got what you deserved. always.

no other forum is like that.

 

I absolutely have a right to behave like a Bs, same as him. He has a right to demand things from me.

 

I'm trying to decide if I should stay or leave. And most people here are telling me to just get over it because I'm a Ws too. My husband didn't take his lumps. He acted out. He left this marriage behind my back for months. I'm trying to tell him how angry, sad and hurt I am too his face, not behind his back. Yet I get chastised for doing this whereas most of you think I should just assume that's what I deserved.

 

When people are angry and resentful others are quick to say that you shouldn't be like that. You should just make a decision not to be like that. there is no way that is a simple decision for me. So when I trigger I just say to myself, "hey I decided not to get sad or mad about that." I've tried it. it doens't work. And time took away most of my triggers.

Edited December 19, 2014 by katielee
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