Plus size models in Cosmo

[Rejected Rosebud]

And yet attractive women benefit constantly from being attractive, I think we'll agree. Let's call it "hot chick privilege."

So what though, I don't get why this is pertinent to anything? Good looking people ALWAYS have a leg up on those who aren't.

[HazyCosmicJive]

So what?

 

Im sure she has a fake ass, too??...

 

Point is that the vast majority of guys like either women with fit and strong bodies or some that are softer and have a little in the right places...I just dont see this groundswell among men for these toothpick type women...In fact, its mostly women who think the mega thin women are the objects of perfection.....so maybe its actually women that are creating their own body image problems.....but I dunno....

 

TFY

 

My point was it doesn't make any sense to use as an example a woman who has fake body parts. Most fitness competitors have implants because they'd have little or no breasts due to their extremely low body fat. I think all the fake breasts out there do more to hurt women's body image than skinny models.

[Rejected Rosebud]

I didn't bring it up. I just think women should stop complaining about. So it seems you agree with me.

Many doors open easier for good looking people, there is nothing wrong with those lucky ones taking advantage of that. It is not equivalent to the concept of people being valued ONLY or MAINLY for what they look like physically.

[Anela]

I didn't bring it up. I just think women should stop complaining about. So it seems you agree with me.

 

So good-looking women can't support those of us who don't get the same breaks? They can't get upset, not only on our behalf, but also for the fact that they will no longer be valued nearly as much, as they lose their looks? (as we all do, eventually.) Maybe they want to be recognized for more than their sexy body, or beautiful face.

[Anela]

 

 

If those good looking women truly wanted to support the ones who didn't get the same breaks, instead of taking that promotion they didn't earn, they could mention the name of a less attractive colleague they think has earned it. Instead, they choose to play lip service, and pretend they care.

 

I know women who would, but that tends to be up to the boss, doesn't it? Would it still be smart to turn it down, if they wouldn't pass it on to the person they recommended?

[serial muse]

So why are those doors being opened so easily for good looking people? Oh yeah, because of the value others place on how they look physically.

 

 

 

If those good looking women truly wanted to support the ones who didn't get the same breaks, instead of taking that promotion they didn't earn, they could mention the name of a less attractive colleague they think has earned it. Instead, they choose to play lip service, and pretend they care.

 

OK, this is a total jump-the-shark argument for this thread. In the first, most obvious place, you have no clue whether good-looking people DON'T do this, so why assume they don't except as another way to blame women for some damn random thing that means they're selfish or whatever it is you're saying? In the second, whether or not an individual were to step aside and request that her (for the sake of argument, let's say her, because we all know that women are more judged on looks than men, yes?) less-attractive colleague be given that promotion does nothing to improve society's attitudes on that score, so what is the point you're trying to make, again? And in the third, what the hell does any of this have to do with pretending that a couple of pics of non-skinny models nude is bringing about the demise of society, which was the original pearl-clutching this thread was supposed to be about???

 

Y'all have GOT to be kidding now. Or is this a "let's throw everything at the wall and see what sticks" argument? Sure sounds that way.

Edited January 10, 2015 by serial muse

[thefooloftheyear]

My point was it doesn't make any sense to use as an example a woman who has fake body parts. Most fitness competitors have implants because they'd have little or no breasts due to their extremely low body fat. I think all the fake breasts out there do more to hurt women's body image than skinny models.

 

 

Thats crazy.....

 

If a woman can work that hard to achieve that type of body, or happened to be born with it...Then great on them..I cant see how a set of breast implant just completely kills the whole thing...Thats just silly...

 

 

TFY

[ChelleBelle00]

I am with danda.

 

Good for the women who carry the weight well and look stunning. No reason why they should not be posted in a magazine.

 

I personally do not look good with extra fat on me, I get the blob flabby potato effect danda mentioned. So I exercise and watch my food to keep the fat off.

 

As long as women go for the body shape they like and work with what looks best on them personally, I am happy for all.

[Weezy1973]

Not as thin as modern day fashion models, for instance the controversial model in the urban outfitters ad.

 

I fully agree about your second point. That's a tough one for women, who are largely valued in the culture for appearance.

 

Anorexia and the like are caused by body dismorphic disorder - it is a mental disorder and is a tiny percentage of the population. Again extremely few people on the planet are underweight.

 

Being overweight, on the other hand is extremely common. And the reason women are overweight is not due the abundance of media images depicting slim women. It's because we live a sedentary lifestyle and consume way too many calories. The proportion of overweight men is just as high as overweight women (in fact slightly higher in North America); is that because of how the culture and media places such a value on women's appearance?

[HazyCosmicJive]

Thats crazy.....

 

If a woman can work that hard to achieve that type of body, or happened to be born with it...Then great on them..I cant see how a set of breast implant just completely kills the whole thing...Thats just silly...

 

 

TFY

 

 

 

Some of us men don't like plastic parts, that's all. I think drooling over two bags of silicone is silly. Besides, I didn't say it "completely kills the whole thing." I really don't understand why some posters here don't actually read what they're responding to instead of arguing against points I haven't made.

Edited January 10, 2015 by HazyCosmicJive

[JDPT]

She's a little too muscular for my taste.

[xxoo]

Anorexia and the like are caused by body dismorphic disorder - it is a mental disorder and is a tiny percentage of the population. Again extremely few people on the planet are underweight.

 

I'm not talking about the extreme of anorexia.

 

Few grown women will be as thin as VS models and magazine models with a healthy lifestyle. It can be demoralizing for women to be inundated with images of women so naturally thin, when most will never be that thin unless they go to unhealthy lengths. I believe it contributes to yo-yo dieting and weight loss/gain, which does contribute to overall weight gain over the long term (vs staying at a stable weight).

 

FWIW, I'm among the naturally thin. Those images still affected me as a young woman, making me feel that my thinness was VERY important (as opposed to just one aspect of me). I got a ton of praise for it, far more than my other qualities and strengths, and it wasn't a healthy thing for me. It made me obsess about being thin.

Edited January 11, 2015 by xxoo

[Weezy1973]

I'm not talking about the extreme of anorexia.

 

Few grown women will be as thin as VS models and magazine models with a healthy lifestyle. It can be demoralizing for women to be inundated with images of women so naturally thin, when most will never be that thin unless they go to unhealthy lengths. I believe it contributes to yo-yo dieting and weight loss/gain, which does contribute to overall weight gain over the long term (vs staying at a stable weight).

 

FWIW, I'm among the naturally thin. Those images still affected me as a young woman, making me feel that my thinness was VERY important (as opposed to just one aspect of me). I got a ton of praise for it, far more than my other qualities and strengths, and it wasn't a healthy thing for me. It made me obsess about being thin.

 

You suggested that media images of thin women leads to disordered eating.

 

I'm sure some women are demoralized because they don't have the same natural body type as many of the women depicted in the media. I'm sure this is even more true of young women and teenagers. And I'm also sure that some women, with poor coping mechanisms, turn to food for comfort when they are feeling demoralized.

 

But, we can be certain, that media images of thin women are not a factor in the trend of people becoming overweight. In North America, two thirds of people are overweight. Two thirds!!

 

There are extremely style/fashion conscious countries in the world (ex. Italy or France) where the obesity rate is not even close to that of the US. That alone should be sufficient evidence that media images don't have an impact on how healthy women choose to live their lives.

 

Women who put health as one of their main priorities in life, both in what they consume and how much they exercise, tend to be slim. Those that don't prioritize healthy living tend to be overweight. The depiction of women in the media has, quite literally, no effect one way or the other.

 

As always, people have to stop blaming external factors, and look to themselves.

[serial muse]

All this drama came about because some women can't accept the fact that men like what we like. We are not going to change what we like because some women are pissed off about it.

 

Boilerplate stuff, but that's not an accurate description of what happened in this thread.

[ufo8mycat]

 

But, we can be certain, that media images of thin women are not a factor in the trend of people becoming overweight. In North America, two thirds of people are overweight. Two thirds!!

 

There are extremely style/fashion conscious countries in the world (ex. Italy or France) where the obesity rate is not even close to that of the US. That alone should be sufficient evidence that media images don't have an impact on how healthy women choose to live their lives.

 

Women who put health as one of their main priorities in life, both in what they consume and how much they exercise, tend to be slim. Those that don't prioritize healthy living tend to be overweight. The depiction of women in the media has, quite literally, no effect one way or the other.

 

As always, people have to stop blaming external factors, and look to themselves.

 

For the bold - it isn't quite as simple as this. When you look at studies of dietetics, many people have disordered approaches to eating that are not technically "eating disorders". But it may including things like always being on a (fad) diet, highly restrictive eating following by binging (and guilt) etc. Magazine are FULL of articles on how to achieve your bikini body in x steps/weeks whatevs. The impact may not be direct but it is subtle. When you read something enough you believe it. While the answer is to not read trashy magazines (see availability in france and italy) it isn't that simple.

 

Parents are one of the single biggest influencing factors on weight of children - and not only by what they are fed. Children pick up very early on cues from parents (although particularly mothers) that bodies are there to be ruefully examined. A different meal at the dinner table (diet), ruefully pinching body bits while commenting on their size, flabbiness, etc. This is all so, so subtle but it creates the normalicy in dieting and that your body needs to be under constant improvement.

 

Most people experience sustainable weightless when they let go of the idea of a "diet" and concentrate on sustainable healthy habits - even if they are not perfect.

 

But while fad diets make a motza and promise quick results the cycle will continue.

 

External factors have enormous influence on our relationship with food and to say other wise is simply unfounded. We learn our attitudes from somewhere.

 

Another factor between france and the USA is the rate of car ownership. Major french cities are walking cities where car ownership is low. Few people in Paris or Lyon drive to work and to do groceries. Many houses and apartments pre-date cars. They walk and take the metro - rain, hail, snow and heatwave

[elaine567]

For the bold - it isn't quite as simple as this. When you look at studies of dietetics, many people have disordered approaches to eating that are not technically "eating disorders". But it may including things like always being on a (fad) diet, highly restrictive eating following by binging (and guilt) etc. Magazine are FULL of articles on how to achieve your bikini body in x steps/weeks whatevs. The impact may not be direct but it is subtle. When you read something enough you believe it. While the answer is to not read trashy magazines (see availability in france and italy) it isn't that simple.

 

Parents are one of the single biggest influencing factors on weight of children - and not only by what they are fed. Children pick up very early on cues from parents (although particularly mothers) that bodies are there to be ruefully examined. A different meal at the dinner table (diet), ruefully pinching body bits while commenting on their size, flabbiness, etc. This is all so, so subtle but it creates the normalicy in dieting and that your body needs to be under constant improvement.

 

Most people experience sustainable weightless when they let go of the idea of a "diet" and concentrate on sustainable healthy habits - even if they are not perfect.

 

But while fad diets make a motza and promise quick results the cycle will continue.

 

External factors have enormous influence on our relationship with food and to say other wise is simply unfounded. We learn our attitudes from somewhere.

 

Another factor between france and the USA is the rate of car ownership. Major french cities are walking cities where car ownership is low. Few people in Paris or Lyon drive to work and to do groceries. Many houses and apartments pre-date cars. They walk and take the metro - rain, hail, snow and heatwave

 

Huge corporations churn out unhealthy food and drink with extemely high sugar and fat content and spend vast amounts advertising them.

[xxoo]

Everyone has preferences.

 

It's a good thing that the media is making an effort to represent the range of preferences.

 

It would be a far better thing if preferences about women's bodies were less emphasized in the media altogether.

[Lernaean_Hydra]

Speaking from a man's perspective, we do sometimes get tired of women shoving the "curvy women are better" agenda down our throats all the time. Being overweight is a result of poor life choices, that's all. For some reason, when it comes to weight, no one is allowed to point out those poor life choices because it is then seen as "fat shaming." If I had any friends who couldn't get a job because they weren't educated, couldn't get a date because they dressed like a bum, anything, I would point it out to them. Overweight is no different.

 

Yeah and I get tired of the idea that because I'm black I need to have a cartoonishly huge ass to be considered attractive being shoved down my throat. It annoys me but it is what it is. I don't let it irk me for long. But I digress...

 

It's not that no one is allowed to "point out those poor life choices", it's just that a lot of people take offense to said choices being "pointed out" when they never asked for your opinion to begin with.

[xxoo]

Speaking from a man's perspective, we do sometimes get tired of women shoving the "curvy women are better" agenda down our throats all the time. Being overweight is a result of poor life choices, that's all. For some reason, when it comes to weight, no one is allowed to point out those poor life choices because it is then seen as "fat shaming." If I had any friends who couldn't get a job because they weren't educated, couldn't get a date because they dressed like a bum, anything, I would point it out to them. Overweight is no different.

 

I get tired of the "better" agenda regardless of the body shape it is describing.

 

But considering the entirety of images in Cosmopolitan magazine, is it reasonable to conclude that one photo spread of plus size models is a statement that "curvy women are better"?

[thefooloftheyear]

To be fair...there are the...uhm...."BBW's"......Fat guys? They are just lard asses....

 

TFY

[Taramere]

Speaking from a man's perspective, we do sometimes get tired of women shoving the "curvy women are better" agenda down our throats all the time.

 

It seems to me that you're choosing to perceive the article triggering this thread as a "curvy women are better" agenda, and that by participating in this thread you're choosing to shove that perceived agenda down your own throat. There are plenty of "slim women are better" messages out there. The fashion industry is awash with them, so is the porn industry, and so is the mainstream movie industry. Those messages are everywhere, yet somehow we still have a situation where the majority of people in the Western world are overweight.

 

The fast food industries is one of the biggest drivers in Western economies. The importance of food manufacturing and distribution in our economies is a major reason so many people are obese. A lot of jobs depend on making people fat, and keeping them fat. Make money out of them by fattening them up, then shame them into spending even more money on gyms, weight loss programmes and cosmetic surgery. The bottom line is that those overweight women are participating in keeping the economy going, with all the purchasing and eating of food that they're doing. If Cosmo has any agenda at all, it's likely about encouraging overweight women to help boost up the economy in other ways.

 

I can picture the suits putting it all together. "Market research says that when overweight women feel crap about themselves they give up on trying to look good. Which means that they don't spend so much money on beauty magazines, make-up, beauty treatments, clothes and hairdressers. A lot of our readers are overweight. A lot of women generally are overweight. We need to draw them in and give them confidence that they too can be beautiful - because that way they'll spend more money on the things we want them to spend money on."

[thefooloftheyear]

It seems to me that you're choosing to perceive the article triggering this thread as a "curvy women are better" agenda, and that by participating in this thread you're choosing to shove that perceived agenda down your own throat. There are plenty of "slim women are better" messages out there. The fashion industry is awash with them, so is the porn industry, and so is the mainstream movie industry. Those messages are everywhere, yet somehow we still have a situation where the majority of people in the Western world are overweight.

 

The fast food industries is one of the biggest drivers in Western economies. The importance of food manufacturing and distribution in our economies is a major reason so many people are obese. A lot of jobs depend on making people fat, and keeping them fat. Make money out of them by fattening them up, then shame them into spending even more money on gyms, weight loss programmes and cosmetic surgery. The bottom line is that those overweight women are participating in keeping the economy going, with all the purchasing and eating of food that they're doing. If Cosmo has any agenda at all, it's likely about encouraging overweight women to help boost up the economy in other ways.

 

I can picture the suits putting it all together. "Market research says that when overweight women feel crap about themselves they give up on trying to look good. Which means that they don't spend so much money on beauty magazines, make-up, beauty treatments, clothes and hairdressers. A lot of our readers are overweight. A lot of women generally are overweight. We need to draw them in and give them confidence that they too can be beautiful - because that way they'll spend more money on the things we want them to spend money on."

 

 

Ehhh......I dunno, T...

 

To say the food industry is to blame is ridiculous...Everyone has control over what they put in their mouths and there are healthier options readily available...Its obvious why people are overweight....Especially anyone born after, say...1985..>They eat too much garbage, and they grew up not doing much of anything active...The computer age has turned many people into amorphous blobs, unoftunately...

 

And for some odd reason I have noticed far more overweight young women than men..Yeah, we all know about the biological makeup of the sexes, but it was never that bad when I was in my 20's...

 

But unlike many other things in life, rather than throw your hands up, ask society to accept it or else, one can make a change here...It takes work, but almost everyone can improve their body and health by a dedicated workout regimen and a sensible diet...Its a "win-win" as you end up looking better and feeling better...

 

Is the magazine trying to establish a "new" beauty standard for women.?? I dunno...I doubt it...IMO, none of them are a healthy weight...

 

And here is something else...Fashion magazines arent about reality...VS isnt reality, Hollywood isnt reality...the Red Carpet isnt reality...But just like Toyota Camry's and Dodge minivans are good and reliable, everyone likes to see/read about Ferrari's and Porsche's.....So whats the point here??

 

TFY

[Taramere]

Ehhh......I dunno, T...

 

To say the food industry is to blame is ridiculous...Everyone has control over what they put in their mouths and there are healthier options readily available...Its obvious why people are overweight....Especially anyone born after, say...1985..>They eat too much garbage, and they grew up not doing much of anything active...The computer age has turned many people into amorphous blobs, unoftunately...

 

I don't think it's always helpful to talk about blame, if it prevents us from considering reasons. Studies do demonstrate that proximity to fast food outlets significantly increases the incidence of obesity amongst local populations. One can certainly argue that people should exercise more discipline, but clearly in many cases they aren't exercising that discipline. If they did, then the fast food outlets would go out of business. I think that would be great. I'd love to see those places replaced by independently run businesses serving up food that takes some level of skill to prepare...but you and I both know that isn't going to happen.

 

 

And for some odd reason I have noticed far more overweight young women than men..Yeah, we all know about the biological makeup of the sexes, but it was never that bad when I was in my 20's...

 

You've probably noticed them because you're looking out for them, TFY, but these figures suggest otherwise. Maybe you don't see them because they're all at home eating, and their wives are the ones going out to get the shopping. I don't know, but stats I've seen are fairly consistent in saying there are more obese men than women.

 

However, I think amongst younger people (ie teens and early twenties) the tendency is more the other way around. That might be partly down to more young men being involved in sport, and also of course pregnancy plays a role. Although women can exercise during pregnancy, obviously the further on the pregnancy gets the more they're going to have to ease up on anything very strenuous.

 

 

And here is something else...Fashion magazines arent about reality...VS isnt reality, Hollywood isnt reality...the Red Carpet isnt reality...But just like Toyota Camry's and Dodge minivans are good and reliable, everyone likes to see/read about Ferrari's and Porsche's.....So whats the point here??

 

TFY

 

Fashion magazines are about selling things. If you look through a woman's magazine - whether it's the upper range (Vogue, Tatler etc) or the lower end, they are absolutely packed with adverts. Just about every page will be trying to sell some sort of product. Companies spend large sums on advertising because it works.

 

What I see is people wanting it both ways. They want these buoyant economies that involve manipulating people (via the marketing industry) into parting with their cash, but they want to reserve the right to criticise those people who are manipulated by the marketing industry in the way that they must be manipulated in order for the economy to keep working as it does at present. The system we have relies on people's lack of discipline.

 

Sure people have the choice of opting out. Of not eating fast food. Of walking as much as they can, rather than taking the car. Of living in ways that are very good for them, in terms of promoting their health and saving cash. We can advocate it, but it would be hypocritical to then complain about the inevitable hit to various businesses. And they would take a hit. The food service industry is huge, and it can only stay huge for as long as people stay huge.

 

I'm not advocating that people should remain obese for the sake of the economy. I don't think they should. I think people should be very conscious of the way in which advertisers attempt to manipulate them, and resist those manipulations...but people like me would be seen as enemies of capitalism, which relies, in the end, on greed and lack of discipline. And results in a lot of very overweight people.

[elaine567]

THe food industry deliberately puts 44 teaspoons of sugar into a cinema size large Coke. It deliberately puts large amounts of sugar into 0% yoghurts too.

 

The food industry deliberately makes large amounts of low price high carbohydrate/high sugar/high fat content food to feed the populace.

So whilst it is everyone's choice to eat healthily, then we are conditioned everyday, to eat foods that are not healthy.

Have an icecream, have some delicious cheesecake with extra cream, Lovely.

Treat yourself, have extra fries, chocolate is to die for. Have an extra huge steak, a large cheeseburger. Pork crackling, beautiful. Cream sauce, excellent!

Wash down with some Coke or a milk shake and don't forget that wine or beer.

 

We are mostly no longer working physically hard, we do not need high fat/high sugar/high carbohydrate diets to keep our strength up or to improve our stamina.

Yet, we are bombarded with such foods daily.

The UK as an obesity epidemic, yet TV media in their wisdom decide to put on bakery programmes which are phenomenally popular and we are regaled with every sugary treat known to man nightly and how to make them...

[CALOVELY]

THe food industry deliberately puts 44 teaspoons of sugar into a cinema size large Coke. It deliberately puts large amounts of sugar into 0% yoghurts too.

 

The food industry deliberately makes large amounts of low price high carbohydrate/high sugar/high fat content food to feed the populace.

So whilst it is everyone's choice to eat healthily, then we are conditioned everyday, to eat foods that are not healthy.

Have an icecream, have some delicious cheesecake with extra cream, Lovely.

Treat yourself, have extra fries, chocolate is to die for. Have an extra huge steak, a large cheeseburger. Pork crackling, beautiful. Cream sauce, excellent!

Wash down with some Coke or a milk shake and don't forget that wine or beer.

 

We are mostly no longer working physically hard, we do not need high fat/high sugar/high carbohydrate diets to keep our strength up or to improve our stamina.

Yet, we are bombarded with such foods daily.

The UK as an obesity epidemic, yet TV media in their wisdom decide to put on bakery programmes which are phenomenally popular and we are regaled with every sugary treat known to man nightly and how to make them...

 

It still comes down to choices though. I can make a choice to drink a one litre bottle of Coke or I can chose water with lemon. Same goes for a burger vs. fish, french fries vs. asparagus, etc. This is no different than credit card companies encouraging you to rake up large amounts of debt or the automobile industry telling you to get a new car every 3 years via a lease. There are always going to be opportunists out there who try to make money off of the lack of will power of others. You can either give in to it or avoid it but it really comes down to moderation in all things.