HazyCosmicJive Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 But you are already conditioned, you have been from an early age. Link to post Share on other sites
serial muse Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 If you had bothered to read my initial response to this thread, I made it clear that while I preferred slender women, I know that not all men do. It is you and your lady friends who are trying to convince me that my preference is due to social conditioning, which is not only wrong, but ignorant and condescending. I think I know why I like what I like. I don't need you to tell me why. I couldn't care less what any other man on the planet likes. I was speaking for myself. Got it? Furthermore, I'm 6'2" so I don't give a crap about the "short guy threads." Is that what I was doing? Me and my lady friends? Because I don't remember telling you jack shxt about your preference. Because I don't give a shxt what you prefer. I'm just pointing out that you dished it out but couldn't take it and so you told everyone to shaddup. And then, hilariously, tried to tell other people that they were arguing wrong. Priceless. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Imported Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 But you are already conditioned, you have been from an early age. Yeah like how kids are not actually born gay or straight, but because of media conditioning, they become one or the other. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
CALOVELY Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 But you are already conditioned, you have been from an early age. I don't think that is true. We all have biological drivers that steer us, whether we want them to or not. I prefer taller and more built men because at the root of it, they can protect me more if the need arose. Most men prefer the hourglass shape because at the root of it, she can carry a pregnancy to term with a smaller hip to waist ratio. There are outliers and certainly there were times throughout history where we deviated slightly but as a whole they have stayed fairly consistent. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
ascendotum Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Yeah like how kids are not actually born gay or straight, but because of media conditioning, they become one or the other. I remember how I found my dads pornos at like 7 or 8, and I liked what I saw... a lot. The women were probably just slightly more curvier than they would be in current editions, but still we are talking like 36-24-36. I didn't have to wait around for sex ed at school to be shown pictures of slim/regular women to be instructed on 'this is what you should find attractive'. I really think guys are hardwired to find younger women the most desirable from natures evolutionary perspective - women begin menses in early teens & guys are at their sexual peak in late teens, and healthy youth tend to be lean in build and weight gain is linked more with older age. Plus I'm sure throughout pre-modern history bountiful year round food was not the norm (depends I guess what part of the world your ancestors roamed) and there was much less carbs and no refined sugar, so I suspect teenagers in the many centuries BC would have been pretty lean That country that worships fat women is mauritania. it would be interesting to see some social experiments there. ie do young men who emigrate still seek out huge women in their new country. How much is lust and how much is just social status approval. If a slim woman flirted with a mauritanian guy in private would be go for it or knock her back because he finds her unattractive. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ascendotum Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 (edited) ............another double up post Edited December 23, 2014 by ascendotum post got duplicated Link to post Share on other sites
Author TigerLilly78 Posted December 23, 2014 Author Share Posted December 23, 2014 Its funny how some just force their ideals onto everyone IE the ones who get bent out of shape when some say that men and sociaity in general are conditioned to like cirtin things. Its like a personal insult when its def not meant to be your penis likes a size 00 women fantastic im happy for it! Theirs men whose penises like plus size ones to then there are the ones who do but are afraid of what sociaity will say if they express that preference.. That right there is prof of the social conditioning in alot of the men today..if any particular man here wants to exempt their penis from this list so be it duly noted...lol Interestingly enough I was looking on line the other night at pics and pics of gorgeous works of art from masters and guess what? most of the women portrayed were indeed plus size to me this means that back then plus size was "in fashion" and desirable just like now a days its quite the opposite..one can't deny the influence social norms has on such choices when the evidence is there smacking us in the face.. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Interestingly enough I was looking on line the other night at pics and pics of gorgeous works of art from masters and guess what? most of the women portrayed were indeed plus size to me this means that back then plus size was "in fashion" and desirable just like now a days its quite the opposite..one can't deny the influence social norms has on such choices when the evidence is there smacking us in the face.. ^^^^^ Exactly. Link to post Share on other sites
CALOVELY Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Interestingly enough I was looking on line the other night at pics and pics of gorgeous works of art from masters and guess what? most of the women portrayed were indeed plus size to me this means that back then plus size was "in fashion" and desirable just like now a days its quite the opposite..one can't deny the influence social norms has on such choices when the evidence is there smacking us in the face.. The hip to waist ratio was still a factor though. The waist was larger but so were the hips, so the hourglass figure was still there. As a whole and with few exceptions that shape has been preferred due to it being the optimal for carrying a pregnancy to term. I am sure social conditioning plays a small part in all of this but at it's base level, we are generally attracted to people based on some long withstanding biological drivers. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 The hip to waist ratio was still a factor though. The waist was larger but so were the hips, so the hourglass figure was still there. As a whole and with few exceptions that shape has been preferred due to it being the optimal for carrying a pregnancy to term. I am sure social conditioning plays a small part in all of this but at it's base level, we are generally attracted to people based on some long withstanding biological drivers. I do not think anyone is questioning that, but social conditioning tweaks those biological markers. For instance when Johnny Weismuller was Tarzan he looked like this http://www.doctormacro.com/Images/Weissmuller,%20Johnny/Annex/NRFPT/Annex%20-%20Weissmuller,%20Johnny%20(Tarzan%20and%20the%20Leopard%20Woman)_NRFPT_05.jpg Then along came Arnie http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-zR2cmuyVOjI/UEoTouvBZcI/AAAAAAAACE4/DgAnx3acEFk/s1600/arnie.jpg Now every man wants big muscles and spends his time pumping iron in the gym. - http://firsttoknow.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/perfect-male-body.jpg Link to post Share on other sites
Imported Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 I do not think anyone is questioning that, but social conditioning tweaks those biological markers. For instance when Johnny Weismuller was Tarzan he looked like this xx Then along came Arnie xx Now every man wants big muscles and spends his time pumping iron in the gym. - Arnold is an impressive person. He has done a lot with his life. Many guys, not even most, want to get in good shape. More muscles, leaner, tough looking. Arnold was far beyond that. He competed. That is a world of difference. Very few guys actually want that look. And that is of the guys that want to get muscular and actually workout towards it. Most guys (and girls) are at the gym pumping iron to not be a fat-ass. Not so much to look like Arnold. I got no where near as big as Arnold and after several girls that kept telling me I was too big, I thought....I was bigger than I wanted to be and changed to being less big. I think most guys are moving more towards more lean, less muscle. But please explain to me how children are actually born gay and attracted to their same sex or is that media conditioning somehow? I mean, did a gay boy become gay because he didn't get to see enough monster truck rallies growing up, is that how it works? You know, they even did an experiment where they took newborns and showed them pictures of conventionally attractive people and not so attractive people. The babies would fixate on the conventionally attractive everytime and ignore the other. i do think the media has some impact on our thinking and even more so on some people. But what you claim is just outlandish and sounds more like a blanket excuse to hide behind. Link to post Share on other sites
CALOVELY Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 I do not think anyone is questioning that, but social conditioning tweaks those biological markers. For instance when Johnny Weismuller was Tarzan he looked like this http://www.doctormacro.com/Images/Weissmuller,%20Johnny/Annex/NRFPT/Annex%20-%20Weissmuller,%20Johnny%20(Tarzan%20and%20the%20Leopard%20Woman)_NRFPT_05.jpg Then along came Arnie http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-zR2cmuyVOjI/UEoTouvBZcI/AAAAAAAACE4/DgAnx3acEFk/s1600/arnie.jpg Now every man wants big muscles and spends his time pumping iron in the gym. - http://firsttoknow.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/perfect-male-body.jpg Yet both of those men are tall and well built. So my point stands that little has changed. Arnold was an outlier, which is also the reason he won Mr. Universe several times. In other words, his body is not common by any stretch. Weismuller starred in the movie back in the 1930's. What was seen as desirable then is still largely seen the same way and has for most of history. Link to post Share on other sites
Author TigerLilly78 Posted December 23, 2014 Author Share Posted December 23, 2014 Most guys (and girls) are at the gym pumping iron to not be a fat-ass. Not so much to look like Arnold. But please explain to me how children are actually born gay and attracted to their same sex or is that media conditioning somehow? I mean, did a gay boy become gay because he didn't get to see enough monster truck rallies growing up, is that how it works? . Common alot of men in the gym are going way beyond trying to as you so nicely put it "not be a "fatass"... a man doesn't need to be able to dead lift 300 pounds to not be over weight some are indeed trying to build muscle a lot of it.. Lets work off the "gay boy" theory you seam to be fond of being gay is a biological thing I do believe BUT for alot of gay men they hide the fact they are gay cause they are afraid of what sociaity will think of them hence being "in the closet" thats were the conditioning comes in the fear of what others will think..so actuialy with out even knowing it you helped to show this point even more.. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Imported Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Common alot of men in the gym are going way beyond trying to as you so nicely put it "not be a "fatass"... a man doesn't need to be able to dead lift 300 pounds to not be over weight some are indeed trying to build muscle a lot of it.. Muscles help you burn calories and shape your body. And no, not looking to just be skinny, but that is far from trying to look like a competitive bodybuilder. Lets work off the "gay boy" theory you seam to be fond of being gay is a biological thing I do believe BUT for alot of gay men they hide the fact they are gay cause they are afraid of what sociaity will think of them hence being "in the closet" thats were the conditioning comes in the fear of what others will think..so actuialy with out even knowing it you helped to show this point even more.. So what you're saying is what people are attracted to is biologically programmed into them from birth. "You know, they even did an experiment where they took newborns and showed them pictures of conventionally attractive people and not so attractive people. The babies would fixate on the conventionally attractive everytime and ignore the other." I agree. Now the whole hiding in the closet thing doesn't have anything to do with what people are attracted to. That's just fear of being who you are and nothing to do with what you're attracted to, so not sure where you were going with that. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
HazyCosmicJive Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Is that what I was doing? Me and my lady friends? Because I don't remember telling you jack shxt about your preference. Because I don't give a shxt what you prefer. I'm just pointing out that you dished it out but couldn't take it and so you told everyone to shaddup. And then, hilariously, tried to tell other people that they were arguing wrong. Priceless. Lose the attitude. Men don't find it attractive. Link to post Share on other sites
HazyCosmicJive Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Yet both of those men are tall and well built. So my point stands that little has changed. Arnold was an outlier, which is also the reason he won Mr. Universe several times. In other words, his body is not common by any stretch. Weismuller starred in the movie back in the 1930's. What was seen as desirable then is still largely seen the same way and has for most of history. Arnold was also on the juice. Link to post Share on other sites
CALOVELY Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Arnold was also on the juice. No question about that. I was trying to point out to her that these ideals have maintained throughout history with only minimal change. She is convinced it is social conditioning and while that might play a role in it, it isn't the main one. Link to post Share on other sites
Author TigerLilly78 Posted December 23, 2014 Author Share Posted December 23, 2014 Muscles help you burn calories and shape your body. And no, not looking to just be skinny, but that is far from trying to look like a competitive bodybuilder. So what you're saying is what people are attracted to is biologically programmed into them from birth. "You know, they even did an experiment where they took newborns and showed them pictures of conventionally attractive people and not so attractive people. The babies would fixate on the conventionally attractive everytime and ignore the other." I agree. Now the whole hiding in the closet thing doesn't have anything to do with what people are attracted to. That's just fear of being who you are and nothing to do with what you're attracted to, so not sure where you were going with that. Sexual orientation itself is very different to "what we are attracted to" cause at one point in my life I was attracted to Hispanic men pretty much exclusively. Then it changed thu out my life from there many times today im with a blond guy so over the years my taste in men has greatly varied. I haven't seen many gay men swing what gender they are attracted to in the same way but nice try putting words in my mouth there..lol The closet thing is a great example of social conditioning cause its not the norm for one man to want to sleep with another man and while thank god we have made alot of progress with this it is still sadly for many a taboo. So some men will not admit they are infact gay that is the affect of one aspect of social conditioning it makes perfect sense but I do understand some see this as a personal insult or attack tho im not to sure why.. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TigerLilly78 Posted December 23, 2014 Author Share Posted December 23, 2014 No question about that. I was trying to point out to her that these ideals have maintained throughout history with only minimal change. She is convinced it is social conditioning and while that might play a role in it, it isn't the main one. Actually I know social conditioning is one part of this and ive even said its not the driving force in ALL mens decisions but thats some how been ignored and its been made that im saying this is the main driving factor for all men by a few men here who seamed to get insulted I even mentioned it in the first place.. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
CALOVELY Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Actually I know social conditioning is one part of this and ive even said its not the driving force in ALL mens decisions but thats some how been ignored and its been made that im saying this is the main driving factor for all men by a few men here who seamed to get insulted I even mentioned it in the first place.. You have been saying though that fashion and media are what makes men dislike larger women. I think that is what makes some women dislike larger women as we tend to follow those things more closely. I think men have the preferences they do in spit of fashion and media. For example, the waif look back in the 1990's. We women lapped that up, not men. There was a reason for that. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TigerLilly78 Posted December 23, 2014 Author Share Posted December 23, 2014 You have been saying though that fashion and media are what makes men dislike larger women. I think that is what makes some women dislike larger women as we tend to follow those things more closely. I think men have the preferences they do in spit of fashion and media. For example, the waif look back in the 1990's. We women lapped that up, not men. There was a reason for that. Fashion and meida are a part of social conditioning yes ive also said a few times that this doesn't apply to all mens decisions Im a child of the 90s and I remember a good many guys with super thin waif type gfs some of them were prob just attracted to that but also the fashion of the moment prob had some influence on it like it dose everything from the cars we drive to the hottest phones everyone has to have.. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pink_sugar Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Those women don't look like 200lbs in the slightest. Maybe 150. I wouldn't say more than 160. Link to post Share on other sites
Taramere Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Those women don't look like 200lbs in the slightest. Maybe 150. I wouldn't say more than 160. They're tall ladies. No way are they as little as 150 to 160 pounds. Here are some women of 5 ft 8" or so who weigh 160 pounds Welcome - What Real Women Look Like According to this site one of the models (Denise Bidot) who is 5 ft 9" weighs in at 200 pounds Hot Chicks: Denise Bidot 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Anela Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 I'm curvy, not fat. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
CALOVELY Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Fashion and meida are a part of social conditioning yes ive also said a few times that this doesn't apply to all mens decisions Im a child of the 90s and I remember a good many guys with super thin waif type gfs some of them were prob just attracted to that but also the fashion of the moment prob had some influence on it like it dose everything from the cars we drive to the hottest phones everyone has to have.. The waif look and the men who liked it were outliers. It was not standard by any means. Similar to the flapper look in the 1920's. Yes, both looks were fashionable for the time but did not sustain because it was not appealing to men. Back in the 1960's, the rail thin look for men was popular. It faded quickly and went back to men being more muscular because women as a whole like that. In all the cases I mentioned, they were fads that could not be sustained because it did not appeal to the opposite sex. Our biological drivers told us otherwise. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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