littleblackheart Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 (edited) No guy I know that is divorced is "just paying the minimum" ,,If there are kids involved they almost always do more....The problem is that its not recognized, because they just do it without court orders or documentation... Also, in most cases where there are kids involved the woman usually stays in the marital home, while the guy usually gets the tiny apartment that resembles a college dorm...Again, I am speaking of personal experience here...For the majority of folks, there just isnt enough money for two seperate decent domiciles...So the bleak pictiure you painted really isnt entirely accurate.. IME, the reason women leave relationships is in their own nature and DNA..Most women are programmed to be overly idealistic when it comes to romance and relationships...some to the point where they wind up from the kettle right into the fire...Guys, on the other hand, are far more realistic and pragmatic..Hence far less of a likelihood for GIGS... TFY Well I guess that's where our experiences (and, you know, facts) vary - a lot of the men don't pay at all (that's the experience of many, many women, and that is simply not recognised or documented), and those who do do so begrudgingly, and yes, pay the absolute minimum; in any case, that's nothing they can't afford. Women only stay in the marital home when there is one: not all married people own a house, and when they do the parent who has custody of the children is awarded the marital home: that's not a gender issue. Where I fully agree is that the emotional pain men have to go through is too often very unfairly cast aside: I personally would not wish a separation / divorce on anyone, man or woman, especially when children are involved, and I would be at a loss to even pretend to know who has it worse. Anyone who has gone through this painful ordeal (as I have) knows it's difficult on all parts, and to make it look like it's easier for one or the other doesn't reflect the harsh reality for all involved. Edited December 21, 2014 by littleblackheart Link to post Share on other sites
hotpotato Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 (edited) I thought the saying was men find love looking for sex, women find sex looking for love Tbh, ive met many men who act like they just have to have sex. Many also dont care who they have sex with. I could be celibate from here on out and be fine. Ive never wanted sex so badly to the point of being indiscriminate. Edited December 21, 2014 by hotpotato Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 There is no doubt at all that women want and really enjoy sex. Though I do feel that men need sex more than women. I don't know if women experience the depression and sense of failure that men do when we go without sex for too long. I think that part of that depression is being not thought "good enough" for anyone to have sex with, and that depresses both men and women. Link to post Share on other sites
ktya Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 I really don't get this thing with women caring about moneybags,if I'm just some monkey trying to find a man with moneybags then why when two physicians messaged me on OLD today,did I not reply to either of them.I could not care less. Yes this us all nonsense,I've never heard anyone say men love less either. Your standards are insane. A physician had to committ to 3 years pre med, plus 5 years med school. Irrespective of the money they make they are obviously determined and committed individuals. What, you want the bad boy who has the mercedes and isnt a gang banger because the guy who made it honestly has a few grey hairs to show for his efforts? I think you just proved our point. Go find your non roid monkey testosterone junkie who makes a half million a year who is an A type personality ready to bang you against the wall on a moments notice who will wait on you hand and foot like a subservient butler. Or sit at home with your battery operated boyfriend like your gonna. Or get real. Who are you? Why would the Prince of Wales dote on you? Link to post Share on other sites
ponchsox Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Women are dirtier and more horny than men. They just won't admit it. Link to post Share on other sites
most_distant_galaxy Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Why are we constantly fed this complete and total BS? I don't know... If women care so much about love, why are they statistically more likely to leave the man than vice versa? Women have more balls in this matter than men. Somehow men hate closing doors behind them. If women care so much about love, why does the woman place greater emphasis on career, income, and social status than the male typically does? Love won't put food in the fridge... Women say they "don't want to be used for sex" and yet if the male can't satisfy her in bed he can be kicked to the curb despite whatever level of genuine affection and love he can offer her. A man who doesn't satisfy is usually a man who doesn't listen. Of course there are also men who listen and try but the women are crazy. Why is male suicide over breakups a common occurrence, while he opposite is essentially unheard of? Because women can handle their emotions better than men. We spend more time discussing them and analysing them than you do. We also have outlets like crying, venting to friends, smashing stuff. I would say there's very clear reasons to believe men not only want love as much as women, but actually love more. But instead men are immediately marginalized and painted as only caring about sex. No I think that (most) men are adorable and need a lot of affection, exactly because they are men and most of them don't ask for it or never had enough because "affection is for sissies". This is wrong. This entire world is wrong.. Link to post Share on other sites
Author NGC1300 Posted December 21, 2014 Author Share Posted December 21, 2014 Because women can handle their emotions better than men Not intrinsically. As you implied yourself, a woman can cry on every shoulder in sight and won't be regarded any less of a woman. If a man cries there will be no sympathy to be found; only ridicule. Link to post Share on other sites
most_distant_galaxy Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Not intrinsically. As you implied yourself, a woman can cry on every shoulder in sight and won't be regarded any less of a woman. If a man cries there will be no sympathy to be found; only ridicule. I don't blame men. But it's a fact that crying, venting etc really help a person feel the burden has decreased. And men most of the times don't have this benefit. They won't even cry in front of their friends, because male friendships usually are of a different nature. Link to post Share on other sites
Author NGC1300 Posted December 21, 2014 Author Share Posted December 21, 2014 Love won't put food in the fridge... Why not get a job and buy your own food? Doesn't it seem kind of shallow to get involved with someone just so you can increase your financial standing? That's not love. Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Several of us have defended men in threads where people (including other men) have claimed that all men want in relationships is sex. Perhaps instead of throwing out blanket accusations here against all women, you could start speaking up in specific instances where men are being stereotyped instead of letting us do it for you. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Why not get a job and buy your own food? Doesn't it seem kind of shallow to get involved with someone just so you can increase your financial standing? That's not love. The point is that it was a reply to:-" If women care so much about love, why does the woman place greater emphasis on career, income, and social status than the male typically does?" Women are being practical here. Women often have children to consider, or even ageing parents/extended families in some cases, so whilst it is wonderful to have rose petals on the bed, rose petals will not feed the kids or house the family. Link to post Share on other sites
serial muse Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 (edited) Your standards are insane. A physician had to committ to 3 years pre med, plus 5 years med school. Irrespective of the money they make they are obviously determined and committed individuals. What, you want the bad boy who has the mercedes and isnt a gang banger because the guy who made it honestly has a few grey hairs to show for his efforts? I think you just proved our point. Go find your non roid monkey testosterone junkie who makes a half million a year who is an A type personality ready to bang you against the wall on a moments notice who will wait on you hand and foot like a subservient butler. Or sit at home with your battery operated boyfriend like your gonna. Or get real. Who are you? Why would the Prince of Wales dote on you? What the actual f***??? How do you make the giant illogical leap from someone saying she didn't date doctors just because they're doctors (clearly saying it's not about money to her) to her wanting gangbangers??? Stop making ad hominems and assumptions. It's rude and thoughtless. And certainly not helping make your "point".. Edited December 21, 2014 by serial muse 2 Link to post Share on other sites
hotpotato Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Women are dirtier and more horny than men. They just won't admit it. Then why aren't women trying to have sex with any man who moves? Aren't you a guy? Theres no way you can believe that women are as horny as men. I for one have never lusted after or tried to have sex with every man i saw simply because he was a man and breathing. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
hotpotato Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 I think that part of that depression is being not thought "good enough" for anyone to have sex with, and that depresses both men and women. Well, I don't know what to tell guys. I don't see myself setting the bar for sexual partners so low that it will encompass 99% of the men. *shrug* I get that men want to be special, but this feeling of being special is not something they can ever give to women. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
most_distant_galaxy Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Why not get a job and buy your own food? Doesn't it seem kind of shallow to get involved with someone just so you can increase your financial standing? That's not love. You twist my words. It's not a reason to get involved, but a parameter to consider. If you want to have a family someday and you want to take care of your kids future, then both partners need to have some stable career, a good income. A man who won't care about his career or income is a perfect match for women-victims who don't mind being alone in a relationship. As long as he loves them (in theory).... Link to post Share on other sites
somedude81 Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 I think that part of that depression is being not thought "good enough" for anyone to have sex with Yes exactly. , and that depresses both men and women. Perhaps, but women don't become involuntarily celibate the way men do. Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Perhaps, but women don't become involuntarily celibate the way men do. They don't??? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
hotpotato Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Yes exactly. Perhaps, but women don't become involuntarily celibate the way men do. Well, we know the solution to that. Link to post Share on other sites
somedude81 Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 They don't??? Women can easily get laid no matter what they look like. That's something that even the vast majority of women agree with. Link to post Share on other sites
SomeDude16 Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Why can't men want sex and love? Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 What the actual f***??? How do you make the giant illogical leap from someone saying she didn't date doctors just because they're doctors (clearly saying it's not about money to her) to her wanting gangbangers??? Stop making ad hominems and assumptions. It's rude and thoughtless. And certainly not helping make your "point".. I know, right!?!? I just assumed he was trippin' on something and didn't even bother. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
salparadise Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 (edited) They want all the perks of having a guy, yet, do not see where they have to play their part. A woman can be happy with him satisfying her "emotional" and "monetary" needs. But, problem is, they don't use it to motivate their men with positive results...they use it to hold over his head to keep him under their control. While I'm a woman, I think women make a lot of decisions that are not logical - mostly on emotion. So, they may get bent out of shape cuz he didn't read her mind and get her her favorite nail polish on her 32nd birthday Off the top of my head, I would guess the men just do not meet their emotional needs. I didn't read every post, but some of the women have quite a bit of insight, which I do appreciate... I believe there is a tendency for women, because they are used to being desirable, in demand, vigorously pursued, expressly appreciated... to develop a sense of entitlement, impossible expectations, and a flawed strategy for achieving nirvana. The flawed strategy goes something like this... she works hard to attract the right man, until he puts a ring on it. Then instead of seeing it as the beginning of a reciprocal partnership that will require a lifetime of sustained effort, she sees it as the end game - mission accomplished. It's a transaction which she sees as trading access to her desirable feminine self for having all of her needs and expectations fulfilled. She has outsourced responsibility for happiness and fulfillment. Afterward, if she's not happy guess who's fault it is? Often times things go well in the beginning, but as the starter expectations are fulfilled, new expectations escalate. He tries, because men really want to make their woman happy... so he's fully on board with the deal. But it's so much easier to escalate than it is for him to keep up on the fulfillment side and a gap forms. The gap manifests as resentment and her expression of dissatisfaction is to withhold emotional, sexual and personal affirmation. If he responds in kind, this marks the beginning of a downward spiral. If he tries to persevere in the face of contempt (the inverse of appreciation) he will lose himself and fail, in which case they both lose. The solution... don't outsource; accept that you will always be responsible for staying positive and maintaining positive regard for your partner. Keep expectations realistic; don't presume you're entitled all you could ever want. Focus on giving––expect to give more than you receive and be ok with it. Never withhold affirmation for it is fundamental. Just to be clear, it's is not just about women, and I'm not saying all women do it... it's just a trap that too many fall into. And it's not intentional; it sneaks in the back way due to lack of awareness, emotional intelligence and big picture perspective. Edited December 22, 2014 by salparadise Link to post Share on other sites
littleblackheart Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 I agree with your solution, and appreciate that you are not generalising it to all women but: I believe there is a tendency for women, because they are used to being desirable, in demand, vigorously pursued, expressly appreciated... to develop a sense of entitlement, impossible expectations, and a flawed strategy for achieving nirvana. Firstly, being actively pursed / desired / whatever simply is not true for all women and secondly, constantly receiving unwanted attention does nothing to your self-esteem. More often than not, genuine mutual attraction and respect are enough for anyone to pursue a relationship, followed by open and honest communication about shared goals and expectations; my guess would be that a sense of entitlement and impossible expectations, if they happen (and they might, I'm not denying that) can be expected if someone is promised the Earth, the moon and beyond under false pretences. The flawed strategy goes something like this... she works hard to attract the right man, until he puts a ring on it. Then instead of seeing it as the beginning of a reciprocal partnership that will require a lifetime of sustained effort, she sees it as the end game - mission accomplished. It's a transaction which she sees as trading access to her desirable feminine self for having all of her needs and expectations fulfilled. She has outsourced responsibility for happiness and fulfillment. Afterward, if she's not happy guess who's fault it is? Often times things go well in the beginning, but as the starter expectations are fulfilled, new expectations escalate. He tries, because men really want to make their woman happy... so he's fully on board with the deal. But it's so much easier to escalate than it is for him to keep up on the fulfillment side and a gap forms. The gap manifests as resentment and her expression of dissatisfaction is to withhold emotional, sexual and personal affirmation. If he responds in kind, this marks the beginning of a downward spiral. If he tries to persevere in the face of contempt (the inverse of appreciation) he will lose himself and fail, in which case they both lose. Complacency in relationships is a major issue, but this in no way is gender-specific. This ^^ is a very one-sided account - when my most recent relationship broke down, I firmly laid all the blame at his door; that was very easy to do, because he was unfaithful. Now that a few months have passed and other more important things have come about (parenting isn't a walk in the park, as it happens), I also know I have got to take some responsibility for the breakdown of the relationship, if only (amongst other things) because I wilfully ignored major red flags at the beginning of the relationship - that's on me. Recognising and accepting your own part in the breakdown of any relationship is the most difficult but the most important step in the healing process, IMO. Link to post Share on other sites
salparadise Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 I was trying to be succinct in describing the pattern, one particular pattern. I am not saying this uniquely female, that all females are susceptible whether or not they've been put on a pedestal, but the thread is about the female side and I quoted other females describing things that could be part of this larger pattern. So please don't try and characterize me as bashing females. Every relationship is unique and there are too many variables/exceptions to even start trying to account for them all. There is no generalized accusation here. All I am saying is, don't outsource, have realistic expectations, maintain positive regard, no entitlement, give more- without keeping score, always affirm your partner's worthiness. Link to post Share on other sites
Popsicle Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 I thought it was "Men want sex; women want money"? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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