Third time a charm?

[absentpresence]

I was worried your wife (seems like she likes to be in control) would take things into her own hands and spill the beans early. I still think it would have been better to have waited a few days but I realize when people are in a crisis it is hard to see past the current pain and to the fact a few more days would not have caused any harm. I am sorry you are going through this. Stay in your step daughters life even if she goes with her mom. You can still hang out with her. She is almost an adult anyways. I doubt she will cut you out. And as long as you don't ask her to choose between the two of you then I am sure you will be around to see grandbabies by her.

 

About the praising your wife. I think it was the excess of it. if someone hears the same thing too often they will grow numb to it and it loses it's meaning. And I also think people noticed you said not one single thing that she did for you. so from your posts it seemed like a one sided marriage.

 

and one sided marriages have a bad tendency to fail. infidelity or not. So if it was heavily one sided the praise and gifts and so forth, take that into consideration for future relationships. Relationships should be both people putting in.

 

It is a very one sided relationship in most aspects. When it comes to showing appreciation, it comes from my end only. She is not an affectionate person with me, our dog, or even really our kids. I actually think our dog doesn't like her which is ironic considering I gave him as a gift to her 8 years ago. There are things she does that I sometimes take for granted though. She does most of the interior household chores that the kids don't participate in and I do the exterior stuff, fixing stuff, improving the house, etc. I suppose I thanked her for this by doing the small things for her and telling her how much she is valued in this relationship but from her end, I was not shown hardly any affection other than frequent "sex" - this was not lacking in the relationship but the things that go with sex were such as the kissing, intimacy, etc. Never any of that. Just open, in, and out and sleep.

 

 

In any event, I need to try and move past this. I sometimes travel for work (short sprints) and sleeping alone in a hotel is very difficult...probably the most difficult thing is being apart even for one night. I need to find out how to be able to sleep without her next to me. When I left her the first time, I used to have to fall asleep to movies or something because it was very difficult wondering what she is doing, thinking, etc. I love her...her smell, her eyes, her skin, her smile, even after all this but these are physical features that I need to look past. I will never trust her again no matter what and I won't live that way. At this point, I can't trust her going to work and keeping her legs closed. I am very convinced that her affair was intimate and more than just a sexual escape.

 

 

 

 

I'm not certain why it came to this but we are where we are.

[Selfish]

It is a very one sided relationship in most aspects. When it comes to showing appreciation, it comes from my end only. She is not an affectionate person with me, our dog, or even really our kids. I actually think our dog doesn't like her which is ironic considering I gave him as a gift to her 8 years ago. There are things she does that I sometimes take for granted though. She does most of the interior household chores that the kids don't participate in and I do the exterior stuff, fixing stuff, improving the house, etc. I suppose I thanked her for this by doing the small things for her and telling her how much she is valued in this relationship but from her end, I was not shown hardly any affection other than frequent "sex" - this was not lacking in the relationship but the things that go with sex were such as the kissing, intimacy, etc. Never any of that. Just open, in, and out and sleep.

 

 

In any event, I need to try and move past this. I sometimes travel for work (short sprints) and sleeping alone in a hotel is very difficult...probably the most difficult thing is being apart even for one night. I need to find out how to be able to sleep without her next to me. When I left her the first time, I used to have to fall asleep to movies or something because it was very difficult wondering what she is doing, thinking, etc. I love her...her smell, her eyes, her skin, her smile, even after all this but these are physical features that I need to look past. I will never trust her again no matter what and I won't live that way. At this point, I can't trust her going to work and keeping her legs closed. I am very convinced that her affair was intimate and more than just a sexual escape.

 

 

 

 

I'm not certain why it came to this but we are where we are.

 

Don't be so convinced about the affair being "intimate" if your wife doesn't show affection to you, or her children or the dog even she may or may not have showed affection to her OM. It could have been all about the thrill of sneaky sex. You don't know and it doesn't really matter. SO believe somehow she was more emotionally invested in OM with nothing to back it up isn't really going to help you. Maybe you just have her still on such a pedestal you want to believe she is capable of love.

 

And to me it sounds like you had more affection for her beauty than who she actually was. At least that is what you mention the most.

 

I encourage you to get into therapy and work on yourself. Find out what is broken inside of you that you allowed this one sided marriage to continue. And have the support of a therapist as you work on getting over her. and dealing with the pain of her betrayal(s). Because, while you are not to blame for cheating you may find yourself in another relationship that is one sided if you don't work on yourself.

[turnera]

Women walk all over - or cheat on - beta men. They crave alpha men. Sorry, but it's the facts. It's psychology 101. Goes back to caveman days - women run after strong men who will 'protect' them (though that's very different in meaning today).

 

You've become (or possibly have always been) a beta man.

 

Read this book over the holidays. It will open your eyes. And maybe save your marriage.

[fellini]

Sure. "Walk all over beta" "crave alpha"?

 

Keep on telling youself you have a solid pop psych answer to infidelity. In fact believing this crap is pure beta. You are totally reluctant to use your head an question such utter nonsense.

 

So when a guy finds out his wife of 15 - get that into you head for just a moment - 15 plus long years in a great marriage - discovers his spouse is having an affair you want to believe he was WHAT? Walked all over for 15 YEARS? His marriage was an illusion? The whole time his perfect wife was Craving Brad PITT?

 

You said it well enogh: go back to CAVEMAN? Disney version, Quest for Fire or 2001? Which fictional caveman is your MUSE?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Women walk all over - or cheat on - beta men. They crave alpha men. Sorry, but it's the facts. It's psychology 101. Goes back to caveman days - women run after strong men who will 'protect' them (though that's very different in meaning today).

 

You've become (or possibly have always been) a beta man.

 

Read this book over the holidays. It will open your eyes. And maybe save your marriage.

[elaine567]

Women walk all over - or cheat on - beta men. They crave alpha men. Sorry, but it's the facts. It's psychology 101. Goes back to caveman days - women run after strong men who will 'protect' them (though that's very different in meaning today).

 

You've become (or possibly have always been) a beta man.

 

Read this book over the holidays. It will open your eyes. And maybe save your marriage.

 

But that is all basically the same as this, without and alpha/beta labelling.

Anyone who has no boundaries, who always wants to please others above their own needs, who hates confrontation and avoids it, is going to be open to abuse, whether that is physical or emotional abuse or potentially being cheated on.

We humans, often see "caring" and altruism as something to exploit unfortunately.

 

But being an "Alpha" man is not going to stop a cheater cheating, surely?

Or are you suggesting that women should be under male "control" to stop them cheating, through fear?

[Buckeye2]

Over the last month, she has been really pushing to have another baby.

 

You could look at this in a positive light and see it as her way of recommitting to you. Like renewing your vows.

 

Or you could look at in in a negative light. After you caught her with her pants undone she knew that you knew. You’re such an upstanding family man that a baby might trap you for another 18 years.

 

I think her frequent “duty sex” was her way of paying you for treating her so well.

 

For me sex with the OM that involves the genitals is the most important consideration, but for you it might be if they kissed.

 

I think you have done very well handling the situation that what forced upon you.

Edited December 23, 2014 by Buckeye2

[cozycottagelg]

Will you be telling the married mans spouse?

[oldshirt]

Or are you suggesting that women should be under male "control" to stop them cheating, through fear?

 

Isn't this what we see taking place in the Mideast and parts of Africa with female circumcision, wrapping them head to toe in sheets, denying them education and employment outside the home, unable to leave the house without a male relative escort, public stonings, burnings and executions for adultery etc etc etc?

 

And guess what?.......they still have cheating there.

[harrybrown]

Has she stopped all contact with the OM?

 

Has she helped you expose to the OM's wife?

 

2 and 1/2 years is a long time. Will she work with you on the divorce?

 

Sorry you are having this painful experience.

 

I do hope you find some peace and happiness in the future.

 

Did she want to get caught? Did she use protection and has she been tested for stds?

 

Be very careful for her not to get pregnant now.

[absentpresence]

Clearly some of my comments have been flipped and taken out of context. To be crystal clear, neither my wife I walk all over each other in this marriage. We are equals and under no circumstances do I feel or believe it is ok to be cheated on or abused in any way.

 

 

There are many woman in the world who get involved with a$$hol3s that treat them like dirt and walk all over them, cheat on them, hit them, etc. I have two daughters that I don't want to ever be treated that way or feel it is acceptable to be treated that way. How I treat their mother will ultimately define what they will come to expect when they start dating - My oldest has dated already and tossed a couple losers to the curb for pulling BS that she knows I would not tolerate. My daughters have been taught that under no circumstances is lying ever acceptable. Treating my wife in a manner that demonstrates loyalty, commitment, integrity, and companionship does not make me a "Beta Male". It makes me a decent human being which I am good with. I don't correlate characteristics of dogs and chimps with humans - this does not mitigate or rationalize human behavior - we are far more evolved than this

 

 

Back up and look at the facts. I treated my wife well and she went to great lengths to conceal her affairs - both of them. The second more than the first. I gave her a second chance because humans make mistakes. The biggest issue I have with this is this isn't just a drunken oops. This was premeditated and carefully executed and it takes a special kind of person to pull off and live with it. I personally could not have a quickie at lunch with someone and come home and tell my wife I love her.

 

 

I'm in no way perfect. I've made mistakes (not one of this magnitude), learned from them, moved on. My kids are not aware of the first incident nor will they be unless she wants to tell them. They are aware of what is going on today and they will develop their own opinions and conclusions from what happens going forward. I do not condone this type of behavior and unfortunately there will be changes. It is going to suck for everyone but in the best interests of my daughters, they need to understand that this type of behavior is not tolerated or acceptable.

 

 

I've struggled with whether I tell his wife directly or not. I sent him a text message the other night and I know he's squirming right now - he deleted both his and his wife's facebook accounts. Maybe I'll hand deliver a Christmas card? I've never been one to gossip because nothing good ever comes of it. At this point, there is no benefit for me by telling his wife and this would only ruin her Christmas, his children's Christmas. His children are young enough that Santa is still real and I don't want to be the guy to ruin that for THEM. She'll eventually figure it out. I did.

[TrustedthenBusted]

Clearly some of my comments have been flipped and taken out of context. To be crystal clear, neither my wife I walk all over each other in this marriage. We are equals and under no circumstances do I feel or believe it is ok to be cheated on or abused in any way.

 

 

There are many woman in the world who get involved with a$$hol3s that treat them like dirt and walk all over them, cheat on them, hit them, etc. I have two daughters that I don't want to ever be treated that way or feel it is acceptable to be treated that way. How I treat their mother will ultimately define what they will come to expect when they start dating - My oldest has dated already and tossed a couple losers to the curb for pulling BS that she knows I would not tolerate. My daughters have been taught that under no circumstances is lying ever acceptable. Treating my wife in a manner that demonstrates loyalty, commitment, integrity, and companionship does not make me a "Beta Male". It makes me a decent human being which I am good with. I don't correlate characteristics of dogs and chimps with humans - this does not mitigate or rationalize human behavior - we are far more evolved than this

 

 

Back up and look at the facts. I treated my wife well and she went to great lengths to conceal her affairs - both of them. The second more than the first. I gave her a second chance because humans make mistakes. The biggest issue I have with this is this isn't just a drunken oops. This was premeditated and carefully executed and it takes a special kind of person to pull off and live with it. I personally could not have a quickie at lunch with someone and come home and tell my wife I love her.

 

 

I'm in no way perfect. I've made mistakes (not one of this magnitude), learned from them, moved on. My kids are not aware of the first incident nor will they be unless she wants to tell them. They are aware of what is going on today and they will develop their own opinions and conclusions from what happens going forward. I do not condone this type of behavior and unfortunately there will be changes. It is going to suck for everyone but in the best interests of my daughters, they need to understand that this type of behavior is not tolerated or acceptable.

 

 

I've struggled with whether I tell his wife directly or not. I sent him a text message the other night and I know he's squirming right now - he deleted both his and his wife's facebook accounts. Maybe I'll hand deliver a Christmas card? I've never been one to gossip because nothing good ever comes of it. At this point, there is no benefit for me by telling his wife and this would only ruin her Christmas, his children's Christmas. His children are young enough that Santa is still real and I don't want to be the guy to ruin that for THEM. She'll eventually figure it out. I did.

 

 

I like this guy! Bravo!

 

Take it with a grain AP. This place is full of people who are hurting too, and sometimes the advice you get is advice someone WISHES they had the strength to take themselves.

 

We're all a sad bunch of amateur therapists, lol.

 

All the best to you and your kids. You sound like you've got your head screwed on pretty tight.

[William]

Since the thread starter has engaged and is processing the postings offered, moderation will leave them intact for now; future in-fighting and/or posts which don't directly address the thread starter's topic and them and/or is couched in a manner which moderation deems to be lacking respect or a collaborative approach to the topic will result in suspension of posting privileges. Retroactive moderation may occur as I find the time to read the entire thread.

[irishguy]

I think your right not to ruin the oms wife christmas but she does deserve to know ,you should tell her when your ready , maybe you should send him a txt to tell her or you will tell her . Im sorry this happened to you but you seem to be doing well so keep going and try enjoy christmas .

[spanz1]

OP, you have gotten a lot of advice here. Some of it is all over the place.

 

 

I would suggest you listen to your dog's advice. He dislikes her...that say a LOT. He can sense her secretiveness/brutaliy/unfaithfulness.

 

 

The other stuff....she is totally at fault here. But it seems that you might have opened the door by being so nice to her and trusting her totally--especially after the first affair.

 

 

So, you have to try to change how you relate to her. no more starbux. No more telling her you love her. No more of you leaving for a year then giving her a break....SHE gets to leave. You do not rent an apartment for her, let her do that herself. Do not do ANYTHING that will help her carry on the affair. That is why you tell the OM's wife....to make continuation of the affair very difficult for her.

 

 

It is almost certain that she did this latest guy 27 ways from sunday, so her "we only screwed 3 times in 2.5 years" is like Obama saying you can keep your own doctor AND health insurance cost will go down!

 

 

If it were me, I would get her to leave, divorce her....and let the cards fall where they may. Somewhere along the divorce process she might be able to convince you of her desire to truly reconcile. For me, it would have to include a visit to her psychiatrist's office and her signing a waiver for him to divulge all health information to you. You would need to figure out what is broken in her mind, and IF it can theoretically be fixed before going on.

 

 

As far as Xmas goes....its coming up fast. Maybe she can just make herself scarce...tell everyone she has a bad cold and does not want to pass it around. But get her out by this weekend if possible.

[absentpresence]

Not to sound like a broken record but thanks again for your support and perspectives. It has truly helped me come to the conclusion I have. I have read through all responses a few times over and I agree with the moderator that some comments may have led to side debates, however; I think the debates help us develop an understanding for different perspectives.

 

 

I thought I would share the message I sent the clown that contributed to this disaster - maybe more so for some comic relief to this shi$%y story. I also want to express my opinion of why I am "somewhat" helping my wife find a place of her own financially and emotionally.

 

 

First off the text message (his response was to delete his and his wifes FB accounts):

-------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Mr Grinch:

Merry Christmas!! I was expected to host Christmas this year for my family but we recently learned that someone took things for granted and things changed. Instead of hosting, my parents will host and that is thanks partly to you. The kids are quite upset that Santa isn't going to visit mommy this year because she's been naughty but I'm sure that will pass in a few years. "Wife" on the other hand doesn't have anyone to share the holidays with - at all. I thought maybe you have room for her at your table considering how close you two have gotten over the last couple years? I'm sure your wife and her have so much to catch up on since they last met. Oh, she's also on the market for a new place to live. Being the good friend to her that you have been, surely you will help her to find a place she can call home.

 

 

----------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

I'm willing to help my wife through some of this for a few reasons. One, I am not a selfish person. Two, we have 14.5 years invested together. All of our assets are combined so no matter what, I can't take anything from her that she is not entitled to. Three, regardless of what she has done, she is my daughters mother and I do care about her well being mostly for their sake. What she did the second time around is unforgiveable and she doesn't quite realize it yet but we are completely finished. She insists and told our daughters she will put this family back together but like it was said, "I've tasted sh^t twice". I'm not hungry anymore. It hurts more than I want to admit and this is partially the reason I do not want to inflict this on his wife. I agree she deserves to know but from him. I will move on once I get her out and it will become a lot more real for her but until then, she will hold onto this hope.

[irishguy]

So have you decided how you will work it on christmas day , will the kids be going to your familys dinner

[TrustedthenBusted]

Not to sound like a broken record but thanks again for your support and perspectives. It has truly helped me come to the conclusion I have. I have read through all responses a few times over and I agree with the moderator that some comments may have led to side debates, however; I think the debates help us develop an understanding for different perspectives.

 

 

I thought I would share the message I sent the clown that contributed to this disaster - maybe more so for some comic relief to this shi$%y story. I also want to express my opinion of why I am "somewhat" helping my wife find a place of her own financially and emotionally.

 

 

First off the text message (his response was to delete his and his wifes FB accounts):

-------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Mr Grinch:

Merry Christmas!! I was expected to host Christmas this year for my family but we recently learned that someone took things for granted and things changed. Instead of hosting, my parents will host and that is thanks partly to you. The kids are quite upset that Santa isn't going to visit mommy this year because she's been naughty but I'm sure that will pass in a few years. "Wife" on the other hand doesn't have anyone to share the holidays with - at all. I thought maybe you have room for her at your table considering how close you two have gotten over the last couple years? I'm sure your wife and her have so much to catch up on since they last met. Oh, she's also on the market for a new place to live. Being the good friend to her that you have been, surely you will help her to find a place she can call home.

 

 

----------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

I'm willing to help my wife through some of this for a few reasons. One, I am not a selfish person. Two, we have 14.5 years invested together. All of our assets are combined so no matter what, I can't take anything from her that she is not entitled to. Three, regardless of what she has done, she is my daughters mother and I do care about her well being mostly for their sake. What she did the second time around is unforgiveable and she doesn't quite realize it yet but we are completely finished. She insists and told our daughters she will put this family back together but like it was said, "I've tasted sh^t twice". I'm not hungry anymore. It hurts more than I want to admit and this is partially the reason I do not want to inflict this on his wife. I agree she deserves to know but from him. I will move on once I get her out and it will become a lot more real for her but until then, she will hold onto this hope.

 

I like this guy more and more with every post.

 

I think it's because I've imagined many times how I would react if my wife ever pulled this stunt a second time.

 

I like to think I'd handle it with the character and grace AP is exhibiting.

 

Impressive stuff, really.

[absentpresence]

Kids were given a choice what they want to do - they want to spend it with the family - no surprise. My wife has a turkey thawing in the sink right now that she will be cooking for herself and the kids said they will have some food with her when we get back that night. I do feel bad for her that she has no family on her side to share this holiday with and that is not her fault at all. The fact she threw mine away is another thing but I do have empathy for her in some regard. I'm sure she is feeling very alone right now and that is certainly not healthy for anyone. It will help her gain some self reflection but she needs to understand why she did it so she will hopefully not hurt the next guy like this. Am I angry with her? You bet. Do I want her to fall off the planet? No. For all the crap she's put me through, there have been many good times as well that have helped me develop into the person I am today.

 

 

My parents would let her come if I was ok with it but I'm not so she will be cooking and eating alone on Christmas and even more often after Christmas. At this point, it would only be awkward for everyone and nobody wants to walk on eggshells at Christmas dinner. She will live with the consequences of her actions but given the holiday season, she has afforded herself a bit of extra time to stay in the house we once made a home.

[whichwayisup]

Did you forward your note the guy's wife before the fb pages were deleted? Wonder if it's possible to get her email address or number.. She needs to know the truth as well. Just something to consider.

[absentpresence]

I didn't no but I could probably get their address and hand deliver a Christmas card to his wife if I wanted to. My wife has friends she works with that were mutual friends with him and from what I understand, this was kept pretty low key so I doubt any of those friends would suspect anything if she asked for it to send a Christmas card or something. My wife is pretty desperate right now and will do anything I ask of her because of that faint hope she is holding onto. If I do decide to do anything about them, it will be after Christmas. The issue here is not him, it's my wife. She says she needed an escape. I need to determine what she felt like she was trying to escape from and what she was running to. Maybe I'm blind but I thought she had it pretty good. I'm not abusive in any way. I earn a decent income in a respectable position in a good company, I have good friends and family, and I always provided her with support when she needed it but gave her the space she needs to make her own decisions. So why I ask myself? Was it pressures of a relationship? Pressures of parenting? Pressures of a family unit? Is she not in love with me anymore - although she claims she is...hmm. Once she honestly answers the why, life will fall into place for her.

[elaine567]

I didn't no but I could probably get their address and hand deliver a Christmas card to his wife if I wanted to. My wife has friends she works with that were mutual friends with him and from what I understand, this was kept pretty low key so I doubt any of those friends would suspect anything if she asked for it to send a Christmas card or something. My wife is pretty desperate right now and will do anything I ask of her because of that faint hope she is holding onto. If I do decide to do anything about them, it will be after Christmas. The issue here is not him, it's my wife. She says she needed an escape. I need to determine what she felt like she was trying to escape from and what she was running to. Maybe I'm blind but I thought she had it pretty good. I'm not abusive in any way. I earn a decent income in a respectable position in a good company, I have good friends and family, and I always provided her with support when she needed it but gave her the space she needs to make her own decisions. So why I ask myself? Was it pressures of a relationship? Pressures of parenting? Pressures of a family unit? Is she not in love with me anymore - although she claims she is...hmm. Once she honestly answers the why, life will fall into place for her.

 

As she has cheated before perhaps cheating is just in her make up.

This was a 2.5 year ongoing affair, this was not a drunken one night stand.

You are unlikely to find out why she really cheated, she perhaps doesn't even really know herself.

She got too close to a co-worker, failed to act like a married woman and cheated, full stop.

 

The main thing here, is do not beat yourself up over this.

[Clay]

I think its only decent that you let the OM's wife know. I would go so far as to write down all the stuff your wife told you so she can verify things. You have your truth now and you have decided its best to move on. The OM's wife is completely in the dark. She deserves the right to choose for herself what kind of life she wants to lead.

 

I agree on waiting until after Christmas but I would not wait to long.

 

Clay

[jnel921]

Doesn't matter how your family feels about her. This is about you and your feelings. She has hurt you twice and 2.5 years is a deal breaker.

 

She knew where to go to have her affair, I am sure she'll know where to go when you ask her to leave.

 

Don't let YOUR love sucker you into keeping her around. HER Love should have kept her a$$ at work during office hours and not in another man's bed.

 

Good Luck to you...

[No Limit]

Over the last month, she has been really pushing to have another baby.

 

Translation: "I may be pregnant by OM but he won't pay child support willingly, so I need you to be the father!"

 

Damn, I don't know how you can stand living anywhere closer than 100 miles to her.

 

But I'd still advise you to tell the other wife - or just let her know. Chances are it's not her husbands first time either, and perhaps she too is waiting for a final incentive to leave.

Edited December 24, 2014 by No Limit

[HurtHusband]

Pushing for a baby!!?? As the above poster said, she could be pregnant with the OM's child. This is what happened to me...no sex for 3 years..wife was having affair which I think lasted about 2 months. Got pregnant and than pounced on me a week before she confessed. I suppose a lot of cheating women will consider this kind of stunt..

 

 

When people start cheating, leading a double life, it seems they really lose their moral bearings, the become devious, and to continue the double life they have to become a lier. It's a downward spiral. Lying must become normal to them. It's shocking really. I understand how most RC is futile, because when someone gets so use to lying with ease than there is also a chance they will do it in the future.

 

You seem to be very strong and collected, I admire your strength.

2.5 yrs seems to be a very long time, she must have developed feelings for him, does she love him? I know it must be very painful for you, as it would be for me. But you sound like a very decent chap and the thing is you deserve much more than this lying cheating no good wife.. Much more!! It's sad when you say 'I love her' and I do this for and that for her' stop doing it! She does not deserve it. I know you are a nice guy and probably won't rub salt in the wounds. But stop thinking of her as the love of your life and see her for what she is, a nasty, selfish whore.

 

I don't buy in to all this alpha/beta crap. The OP was fulfilling his marital duties to his wife and family, just like many other betrayed spouses. If your wife shacks up with her lover, the fantasy will be over and she'll soon get a dose of cold reality. You can than drive around town in a red sports car if you want and be the alpha male...