Marriage...what is it good for?

[thefooloftheyear]

Lets get something straight...I am not your "buddy"

 

 

Obviously not...I guess you cant detect blatant sarcasm...

 

 

My parents have been married 50 odd years, my ex on the other hand comes from a divorced home. Yes the child didn't ask for any of this, but he has 2 loving parents there for him and gets to spend his time at both homes as opposed to one parent not being in the picture. (see the difference here?)

 

What is the point of 2 people staying together and arguing for the kids to see as is so common in many households. The stats on 1 in every 2 marriages failing in there as fact. My ex couldn't force me to stay with her for my own sanity, and you won't be able to get your spouse to stay with you regardless.

 

If you bothered to read the post, you would clearly see that sometimes two people make a decision to put aside personal grievances for the sake of the kid(s)..In some cases, its not possible and for those, then immediate divorce is the best option..

 

There are many couples that stay together and come up with a workable plan so they dont turn their kids lives upside down...When the kids are old enough, then they make an exit...Its been done millions of times...Its not Ozzie and Harriet, but its a reasonable compromise..If you couldnt do it, then fine. But there are other ways people do it..

 

 

 

It's called self awareness, which of course is completely different from delusion where someone thinks the world owes them / they are entitled to something because of their gender

 

Just try to let go of all the bitterness....Its not good for your kid and maybe then you could develop a better post marriage relationship with your ex, which most likely would benefit all involved..

 

TFY

[Tayken]

Just try to let go of all the bitterness....Its not good for your kid and maybe then you could develop a better post marriage relationship with your ex, which most likely would benefit all involved..

 

TFY

 

Sigh.....you are funny. There is already an established civil approach that revolves our child in place from the day I told her it is over, to the present time long past the divorce.

 

All communication takes place via a book that accompanies the child.

 

Exchanges happen at school, so we don't get to see one another

 

text is only for emergencies

 

*This is how you avoid any drama.

[Got it]

Sigh.....you are funny. There is already an established civil approach that revolves our child in place from the day I told her it is over, to the present time long past the divorce.

 

All communication takes place via a book that accompanies the child.

 

Exchanges happen at school, so we don't get to see one another

 

text is only for emergencies

 

*This is how you avoid any drama.

 

Sigh, sad you think this is healthy. And if you think your attitude that is shown here doesn't spill over into your life and to your child, I have a bridge I can sell you.

 

Therapy may be very helpful for you. You definitely seem like you need it.

 

TFY has the right approach on how to handle kids, marriage, and divorce. Hopefully one day you will see that.

 

My parents had a miserable marriage and we celebrated the divorce. But what I appreciate the most is how they handled the divorce. We celebrate holidays together, they interact, and they are very civil. They see the good in each other without the pressure of a romantic relationship. What is amazing is from such a multiple decades bad marriage, very toxic, they could be so positive and healthy in divorce. That has been by far the best gift they could give the kids and have allowed our adult years to be easier and celebrate moments without worries about keeping them separate.

Edited December 28, 2014 by Got it

[Tayken]

Sigh, sad you think this is healthy. And if you think your attitude that is shown here doesn't spill over into your life and to your child, I have a bridge I can sell you.

 

Therapy may be very helpful for you. You definitely seem like you need it.

 

TFY has the right approach on how to handle kids, marriage, and divorce. Hopefully one day you will see that.

 

My parents had a miserable marriage and we celebrated the divorce. But what I appreciate the most is how they handled the divorce. We celebrate holidays together, they interact, and they are very civil. They see the good in each other without the pressure of a romantic relationship. What is amazing is from such a multiple decades bad marriage, very toxic, they could be so positive and healthy in divorce. That has been by far the best gift they could give the kids and have allowed our adult years to be easier and celebrate moments without worries about keeping them separate.

 

You mean the staying together till the kids are old enough and then make your exit? Yes that is a real plan isn't it considering the longer you stay with someone, the more it can end up costing you. Do you even know how family law works?

 

When it comes to the award of alimony, the longer the marriage, the more likely the case for 'indefinite' payment to the less earner. So why drag out a 9yr marriage to 15 plus only to find yourself paying for it for the rest of your life whilst she is shacked up with someone else living better than you?

 

My divorce was not nasty and "miserable " like you parents. It didn't even go to trial but I started the procedure and served her to make her realize that I was serious and in order to sell the house and divide belongings.

 

Come back here when you are married, and have lived like me into your 40s, on 4 different continents, and without any family of your own where you live that you can go dump the child at like most married couples do when they take off on vacation or night out.

 

Somehow I still manage to parent on my own, hold down a demanding job in charge of over 200 people, and study on the side.

[littleblackheart]

To add, if I may, I've got mates who have been absolutely destroyed from losing their family and kids. Good, decent, successful, honest men now suffering a lifetime of depression and scars. One shut down so completely he has been in an institution for twenty years. Hasn't spoken a word in all that time.

 

The person they trusted most in the world took their kids away. Their flesh and blood was ripped away from them. What they loved more than life and sacrificed everything for. There is no worse betrayal of trust than that. There's nothing worse you can do to man.

 

This is also why many men will stay in a marriage with terrible and abusive wives. They can't bear to lose their kids. It's the kind of thing that kills a man on the inside. Leaves an empty shell.

 

This post made me think a bit; turns out some women are not completely impervious to the pain men go through when a relationship breaks down - who'd have thought it...

 

 

I get it, and if I'm honest that's exactly what drove both my ex and I to try and have as decent a breakup as possible. It could have gone either way because I was angry (his unfaithfulness was the last -very heavy - straw) and he'd checked out of the relationship months previous so was completely oblivious to my feelings.

 

 

What saved us from months of unnecessary agony, I think, is that it was dealt with very quickly (there was never any question of getting back together after his betrayal), and we love being decent parents more than we hate each other, ultimately. He has always acknowledged that his presence was never going to be a deciding factor in education matters (he is away a lot), he has always praised me for the sacrifices I have made and constantly tells me how he thinks I'm a great mother, which means the world to me.

In return, I ask for his input / let him know anything and everything every step of the way to make sure he feels involved because I didn't want him to worry about his role as a father. I'd rather not to have to deal with him as much as I do but I do it for the greater good, and I'm sure he feels the same way.

 

 

Like anyone else, I'd much rather have been successful in my relationship but it hasn't affected my views on marriage (a noble institution) or men.

Just my two cent / pence.

[MissBee]

Personally I think the family unit is the most important unit of society. It's a foundation stone of society. The marriage of two adults is what binds it. Without that unity kids struggle to get the stability and balance they need to become healthy, capable, responsible, self sufficient adults that can create the successful marriages needed to raise the next generation. If marriages fail you eventually end up with a bunch of incomplete, unbalanced, selfish, emotionally and mentally screwed up adult children who can't abide by each other in a manner that provides a balanced, stable home for their own children. Society starts to crumble.

 

So to answer the question "What is marriage good for?". It's the glue that binds society together.

 

Having said that, and as much as I hate to say it, in today's world marriage opens a man up to all kinds risk and abuse with very little security or protection. You can have your kids taken from you, lose your home, lose everything you've worked for and even be thrown in prison on the whim and word of your wife. If you land a good wife marriage will be the best thing you ever did. If you get stuck with an unpleasant one your exit is going to be painful, expensive and damaging. So you should take your time, think very carefully and not allow yourself to be rushed into it because you're risking all on toss of a coin odds.

 

I don't understand why this is just in marriage. If a man has a relationship and kids with a woman he is not married to but lives with then what? This is the part that doesn't compute to me.

 

It also seems like folks find some very out of the way scenarios that they are trying to paint as the likely and natural course of things which aren't. Unless you chose to marry an insane person, most married men do not end up later jailed, homeless and without their children I mean come on. This idea is based on lots of specific assumptions that do not define marriage in general. Example: my ex of two boyfriends ago used to be married and while married they lived in an apartment, when they got divorced he bought a house. They had a child together, his child did not get taken away, he had his son 4 days of the week, from Friday to Sunday and Tuesdays and could see him anytime in between, he was never jailed and he and his ex wife coparented just fine. This is just one scenario where it's not all gloom and doom should a marriage end and even these things you're saying are assuming one has a bad breakup in a marriage which is not even the marriage itself but it's ending. There are lots of ways for a marriage to play out and sorry the whole automatically the man is most likely gonna never see his kids, lose him home and be destitute scare tactic is just that.

Edited December 28, 2014 by MissBee

[thefooloftheyear]

You mean the staying together till the kids are old enough and then make your exit? Yes that is a real plan isn't it considering the longer you stay with someone, the more it can end up costing you. Do you even know how family law works?

 

Well, did it ever occur to you that some people arent going to hold the other to the coals, when in fact they did something for the betterment of them and their kids? I gotta tell you, most of the divorces where two people find some common ground and there isnt too much acrimony, winds up for the financial betterment of both parties.

 

When it comes to the award of alimony, the longer the marriage, the more likely the case for 'indefinite' payment to the less earner. So why drag out a 9yr marriage to 15 plus only to find yourself paying for it for the rest of your life whilst she is shacked up with someone else living better than you?

 

No one I know would use those extra years against the other person...It would take someone of unbelievably low character to pull that off..

 

My divorce was not nasty and "miserable " like you parents. It didn't even go to trial but I started the procedure and served her to make her realize that I was serious and in order to sell the house and divide belongings.

 

 

Come back here when you are married, and have lived like me into your 40s, on 4 different continents, and without any family of your own where you live that you can go dump the child at like most married couples do when they take off on vacation or night out.

 

Somehow I still manage to parent on my own, hold down a demanding job in charge of over 200 people, and study on the side.

 

Good for you....

 

Look, its painfully obvious that you are bitter...Thats fine...And dont be so sure that other posters havent had the experiences you have had..Many people are bitter post divorce..Im trying not to be in that boat, even if that means it involves a personal/financial sacrifice.....

 

it serves no purpose to carry grudges...What good does it do? I'd shudder to think my kid has to carry around a book for simple communication and that you have a little one stuck in the middle of a situation where his/her parents cant even have a basic discussion..If you cant see the wrong in that, then I think you should sit back and put yourself in his/her shoes..

 

Divorce is considered to be the most stressful and emotionally painful event in anyone's life..I get that...For me, and many others, it just doesnt make sense to make it so horrible....especially when kids are involved...There are ways to mitigate and offset all of the negativity..The lawyers want the divorcees to make it ugly...They dont care about your kid or what is best for everyone's personal well being...They get paid to stick it to the other party and drag it out so they can pad their billable hours...

 

TFY

[littleblackheart]

The lawyers want the divorcees to make it ugly...They dont care about your kid or what is best for everyone's personal well being...They get paid to stick it to the other party and drag it out so they can pad their billable hours...

 

TFY

 

Actually in the UK, there is a real push to make the divorce process as decent as possible: most lawyers offer a 'marriage pack' and try and advertise their conflict resolution expertise (conciliation) as a first course of action. I'm not sure the escalation of nastiness can be blamed on lawyers - they really just follow their clients' instructions, I've seen it first hand - it's mostly down to the individuals (and / or meddling relatives in the worst case scenarios), and how well they can handle their separation.

[thefooloftheyear]

Actually in the UK, there is a real push to make the divorce process as decent as possible: most lawyers offer a 'marriage pack' and try and advertise their conflict resolution expertise (conciliation) as a first course of action. I'm not sure the escalation of nastiness can be blamed on lawyers - they really just follow their clients' instructions, I've seen it first hand - it's mostly down to the individuals (and / or meddling relatives in the worst case scenarios), and how well they can handle their separation.

 

 

Sorry, that may be true there, but its not the case here...at least with all lawyers anyway...

 

No one is saying they are to blame...But I have a long term customer that is a partner in a local firm...The stories I have been told are nothing but shocking...Rather than try to persuade their clients to do whats best for them, their kids and their finances, they "wind up" their client unneccessarily to keep the case file open as long as possible....The longer it goes, the more they can bill..Its as simple as that..

 

TFY

[littleblackheart]

Sorry, that may be true there, but its not the case here...at least with all lawyers anyway...

 

No one is saying they are to blame...But I have a long term customer that is a partner in a local firm...The stories I have been told are nothing but shocking...Rather than try to persuade their clients to do whats best for them, their kids and their finances, they "wind up" their client unneccessarily to keep the case file open as long as possible....The longer it goes, the more they can bill..Its as simple as that..

 

TFY

 

 

Ah. Well, I guess there are bad eggs in every profession. Thank you for clarifying.

[elaine567]

Sorry, that may be true there, but its not the case here...at least with all lawyers anyway...

 

No one is saying they are to blame...But I have a long term customer that is a partner in a local firm...The stories I have been told are nothing but shocking...Rather than try to persuade their clients to do whats best for them, their kids and their finances, they "wind up" their client unneccessarily to keep the case file open as long as possible....The longer it goes, the more they can bill..Its as simple as that..

 

TFY

 

It makes sense, clients are not going to make a law firm any money, if they are going to sort out their own issues, agree over custody and agree over splitting up assets, all by themselves.

So whilst I am sure there are "good" law firms out there who will do their best to keep clients calm in the face of divorce and reduce costs to a minimum.

I would be not too surprised if some lawyers will also try and ramp up the chaos, in order to make money for themselves. They are not a charity after all.

[Snaggletooth]

This post made me think a bit; turns out some women are not completely impervious to the pain men go through when a relationship breaks down - who'd have thought it...

 

 

I get it, and if I'm honest that's exactly what drove both my ex and I to try and have as decent a breakup as possible. It could have gone either way because I was angry (his unfaithfulness was the last -very heavy - straw) and he'd checked out of the relationship months previous so was completely oblivious to my feelings.

 

 

What saved us from months of unnecessary agony, I think, is that it was dealt with very quickly (there was never any question of getting back together after his betrayal), and we love being decent parents more than we hate each other, ultimately. He has always acknowledged that his presence was never going to be a deciding factor in education matters (he is away a lot), he has always praised me for the sacrifices I have made and constantly tells me how he thinks I'm a great mother, which means the world to me.

In return, I ask for his input / let him know anything and everything every step of the way to make sure he feels involved because I didn't want him to worry about his role as a father. I'd rather not to have to deal with him as much as I do but I do it for the greater good, and I'm sure he feels the same way.

 

 

Like anyone else, I'd much rather have been successful in my relationship but it hasn't affected my views on marriage (a noble institution) or men.

Just my two cent / pence.

 

 

I don't think it was said that no woman can be fair, reasonable, rational or understanding. Plenty are. Plenty are also not. I was just telling of some of the damage marriage and divorce has done to men. Each sex has it's genuine problems, challenges and concerns. Each sex should be allowed to express and address those issues.

 

Men are increasingly quitting on marriage and women. It's not a good thing. Not for men, women, kids and society as a whole. The reasons men are quitting are genuine. I'm not anti women, I'm not anti marriage, I'm pro marriage, I said it earlier in the thread, I think it's the most important building block of a civilised society. What I am is anti neglecting to address the needs and concerns of boys and men. In doing so, it's the kids who are getting hurt the most.

 

I'd like nothing more than for marriage and fatherhood to be viewed by men as the best thing they can do with their lives. Something that offers love, comfort, security and stability for men, women and children. An ever increasing number of men think the negatives outweigh the positives, the risks outweigh the rewards and the demands not worth the effort. That's not said as a bash on women, it's a fact of life that needs to be heard and addressed.

 

Men's rights groups, father's rights groups and the growing "Don't marry" attitude has not appeared out of thin air and for no reason. We've got a generation of men who have been brutalised by divorce, stomped over in marriage and a generation of lads who have been neglected in their youth. That's not to say women never get the rough end of the stick. That's to say unless something is done about it we will eventually see marriage disappear, the family unit crumble yet further and society collapse in on itself.

 

70-80% of men behind bars had single mothers. About the same percentage of girls from divorced homes suffer psychiatric problems. Kids aren't getting the stability and balance. Stable adults are becoming harder to find. Stable parents are becoming harder to find. The state is becoming ever more burdened by playing parent. It's the responsibility of both sexes to be mature and responsible enough to turn things round.

 

I think perhaps the most important issue facing society is to get the family unit back together. That, in part, is going to mean raising men, not boys, and that involves letting men raise and educate boys as they once did while letting it be balanced by a Mothers input. It's also going to mean making marriage (and all that comes after it) a more secure and better looking prospect than it currently is.

 

On a personal note, I've never said never again, it's just in the thirteen years since my ex I have not met an available woman that appeals to me. If I ever meet a nice, caring, kind hearted, sensible, down to earth woman with her finances and life in order I'd be interested. What I quit on was dating and actively looking, because any more exposure to the rude, entitled, selfish, god awful women that was bringing me into contact with and I would have quit on the entire female species.

[Snaggletooth]

Actually in the UK, there is a real push to make the divorce process as decent as possible: most lawyers offer a 'marriage pack' and try and advertise their conflict resolution expertise (conciliation) as a first course of action. I'm not sure the escalation of nastiness can be blamed on lawyers - they really just follow their clients' instructions, I've seen it first hand - it's mostly down to the individuals (and / or meddling relatives in the worst case scenarios), and how well they can handle their separation.

 

 

You say that I but I can tell you endless horror stories from my friends divorces. Like a mate, a carpenter, who spent 15 years living in a caravan while building his own home by hand. It was a work of art, a labour of love, hand carved timbers depicting animals and wildlife, stunning, his life's dream and amition. Shortly after the house was finished he met a woman and married. Two years later she had a baby. It was obvious it wasn't his, neither he or his wife were black. She got the house, he is back in the caravan.

 

Another mate. Ran a car workshop. He'd worked hard in life and done well. He first married when he was fifty. The wife cheated when he was 53. She got the house and half of all his assets. He now lives in a bedsit and drives buses for a living. That's his life now, that's what he does, no retirement, no money.

 

Another mate. Nicest man I've ever known. She got the house, pension and he hasn't seen his kids for 8 years. Every time he tries to get access his wife cries wolf and accuses him of sexual assault. He has no money left from trying to fight it. Back in with his parents and at his age he will never afford to start again.

 

I could go on and on. I could tell of two mates who ended up hanging themselves. Of fell's so skint they live in sheds or cars. Even them who got off lucky will never afford retirement or be able to get a mortgage or own a home again. They will be working until the day they drop dead. The process is very unfair.

[Tayken]

You say that I but I can tell you endless horror stories from my friends divorces. Like a mate, a carpenter, who spent 15 years living in a caravan while building his own home by hand. It was a work of art, a labour of love, hand carved timbers depicting animals and wildlife, stunning, his life's dream and amition. Shortly after the house was finished he met a woman and married. Two years later she had a baby. It was obvious it wasn't his, neither he or his wife were black. She got the house, he is back in the caravan.

 

Another mate. Ran a car workshop. He'd worked hard in life and done well. He first married when he was fifty. The wife cheated when he was 53. She got the house and half of all his assets. He now lives in a bedsit and drives buses for a living. That's his life now, that's what he does, no retirement, no money.

 

Another mate. Nicest man I've ever known. She got the house, pension and he hasn't seen his kids for 8 years. Every time he tries to get access his wife cries wolf and accuses him of sexual assault. He has no money left from trying to fight it. Back in with his parents and at his age he will never afford to start again.

 

I could go on and on. I could tell of two mates who ended up hanging themselves. Of fell's so skint they live in sheds or cars. Even them who got off lucky will never afford retirement or be able to get a mortgage or own a home again. They will be working until the day they drop dead. The process is very unfair.

 

 

I know...there are millions of similar stories around the world, and you will be hard pushed to meet a man who claims he got more than he came into the relationship with (child/ren aside).

 

I am sure a lot of these females in denial know of male friends / colleagues / family members that have got this bum deals as well, but don't want to admit it on here / think something needs to be done about the system

 

As I said before, I was lucky mine was what you will call a short marriage (shy of 10yrs), and the only thing I have to pay as the highest earner is child support. She tried to stay on my medical / get part of my pension, and she failed at both cos I did what I had to to make sure she won't get her paws on it.

 

You can say I got off with the skin of my teeth...why on earth would I want to take my chances again, when I might not be so lucky next time?

 

Oh, I also know of a work colleague that shot himself in the woods close to work because his wife was having it off with someone else / denying him access to his child / and making false accusations. I feel sucker for the poor sucker who is going to end up with this female

Edited December 28, 2014 by Tayken

[littleblackheart]

I don't think it was said that no woman can be fair, reasonable, rational or understanding.

 

 

I know - I meant it in a tongue-in-cheek way (not easily conveyable in writing, admittedly) .

 

Men are increasingly quitting on marriage and women. It's not a good thing. Not for men, women, kids and society as a whole. The reasons men are quitting are genuine. I'm not anti women, I'm not anti marriage, I'm pro marriage, I said it earlier in the thread, I think it's the most important building block of a civilised society. What I am is anti neglecting to address the needs and concerns of boys and men. In doing so, it's the kids who are getting hurt the most.

 

I'd like nothing more than for marriage and fatherhood to be viewed by men as the best thing they can do with their lives. Something that offers love, comfort, security and stability for men, women and children. An ever increasing number of men think the negatives outweigh the positives, the risks outweigh the rewards and the demands not worth the effort. That's not said as a bash on women, it's a fact of life that needs to be heard and addressed.

 

 

That's fair enough, and completely understandable. These voices would gain by getting heard without the inevitable anti-feminism rhetoric that is so very often (near enough always, actually) associated with the discourse though, and taints its validity, IMO. To be entirely honest, this post is the first balanced, rational, detached one I have read on the issue - this has made me challenge my own perceptions in a more positive way because I feel like I could part of the solution rather than its only source of problem, and that's refreshing so thank you for that.

 

 

Men's rights groups, father's rights groups and the growing "Don't marry" attitude has not appeared out of thin air and for no reason. We've got a generation of men who have been brutalised by divorce, stomped over in marriage and a generation of lads who have been neglected in their youth. That's not to say women never get the rough end of the stick. That's to say unless something is done about it we will eventually see marriage disappear, the family unit crumble yet further and society collapse in on itself.

 

70-80% of men behind bars had single mothers. About the same percentage of girls from divorced homes suffer psychiatric problems. Kids aren't getting the stability and balance. Stable adults are becoming harder to find. Stable parents are becoming harder to find. The state is becoming ever more burdened by playing parent. It's the responsibility of both sexes to be mature and responsible enough to turn things round.

 

I think perhaps the most important issue facing society is to get the family unit back together. That, in part, is going to mean raising men, not boys, and that involves letting men raise and educate boys as they once did while letting it be balanced by a Mothers input. It's also going to mean making marriage (and all that comes after it) a more secure and better looking prospect than it currently is

 

 

I agree with your sentiment but I don't think these figures can be attributed to divorce but the way the parents have dealt with their divorce - this is very different. New studies (and I have a vested interest in them as a single mothers) show that the children of divorce are increasingly well-adjusted and do well academically because there is a better understanding and acceptance of the divorce itself in society, and its consequences on the children.

 

 

Having incentives to make the family unit for appealing is one way of dealing with the problem - educating people at large about the importance of a tight bond between parents post-divorce is another valid one, IMO.

 

 

On a personal note, I've never said never again, it's just in the thirteen years since my ex I have not met an available woman that appeals to me. If I ever meet a nice, caring, kind hearted, sensible, down to earth woman with her finances and life in order I'd be interested. What I quit on was dating and actively looking, because any more exposure to the rude, entitled, selfish, god awful women that was bringing me into contact with and I would have quit on the entire female species.

 

Fair enough. Well, there are plenty of these women around you so there's every chance you'll get what you wish for . I can't really provide any advice on how to find a woman like that though - I've never dated in my entire life, I don't understand it and modern technology / dating rules just scare me; for me, if ever anything was to transpire organically along the line I may be persuaded but for now, I'm letting my scars heal in their own time - patience is virtue I have learnt to master

[littleblackheart]

You say that I but I can tell you endless horror stories from my friends divorces. Like a mate, a carpenter, who spent 15 years living in a caravan while building his own home by hand. It was a work of art, a labour of love, hand carved timbers depicting animals and wildlife, stunning, his life's dream and amition. Shortly after the house was finished he met a woman and married. Two years later she had a baby. It was obvious it wasn't his, neither he or his wife were black. She got the house, he is back in the caravan.

 

Another mate. Ran a car workshop. He'd worked hard in life and done well. He first married when he was fifty. The wife cheated when he was 53. She got the house and half of all his assets. He now lives in a bedsit and drives buses for a living. That's his life now, that's what he does, no retirement, no money.

 

Another mate. Nicest man I've ever known. She got the house, pension and he hasn't seen his kids for 8 years. Every time he tries to get access his wife cries wolf and accuses him of sexual assault. He has no money left from trying to fight it. Back in with his parents and at his age he will never afford to start again.

 

I could go on and on. I could tell of two mates who ended up hanging themselves. Of fell's so skint they live in sheds or cars. Even them who got off lucky will never afford retirement or be able to get a mortgage or own a home again. They will be working until the day they drop dead. The process is very unfair.

 

 

For every one of these stories I have some of my own, about abstentee fathers and financial hardship and broken hearts - in these situations, safer to keep focused on the bigger picture, acknowledge that it's difficult on both parts and leave it at that .

[Snaggletooth]

I know...there are millions of similar stories around the world, and you will be hard pushed to meet a man who claims he got more than he came into the relationship with (child/ren aside).

 

I am sure a lot of these females in denial know of male friends / colleagues / family members that have got this bum deals as well, but don't want to admit it on here / think something needs to be done about the system

 

As I said before, I was lucky mine was what you will call a short marriage (shy of 10yrs), and the only thing I have to pay as the highest earner is child support. She tried to stay on my medical / get part of my pension, and she failed at both cos I did what I had to to make sure she won't get her paws on it.

 

You can say I got off with the skin of my teeth...why on earth would I want to take my chances again, when I might not be so lucky next time?

 

Oh, I also know of a work colleague that shot himself in the woods close to work because his wife was having it off with someone else / denying him access to his child / and making false accusations. I feel sucker for the poor sucker who is going to end up with this female

 

There's definitely an imbalance and something needs to be done about it if men are to continue in with marriage in the future. What we need to do as men is not be fall into the trap of being bitter or hateful. It's up to us to set the example if we want change. When I look at the types of Leykis... I think he is doing men no favours at all. Last thing I would want to see is a planet full of male Dworkins. dragging the next generation down. It would be an embarrassment and only escalate the problems within society.

[Tayken]

Ah. Well, I guess there are bad eggs in every profession. Thank you for clarifying.

 

Yes..and am surprised you didn't know that. My sister and her husband are both barristers in London, and I know how things work over there, I also happen to know how it works on this side of the pond.

 

Having said that, and as much as I hate to say it, in today's world marriage opens a man up to all kinds risk and abuse with very little security or protection. You can have your kids taken from you, lose your home, lose everything you've worked for and even be thrown in prison on the whim and word of your wife.

 

 

Well....I am glad to finally hear that you are aware of this, and it is all this that makes it harder to ignore, with only a fool not taking note of this and just being oblivious to the whole thing.

 

For a man to get sole custody, the female has to be completely out of her mind i.e. a confirmed drunk / drug user / psychotic / etc...all hard facts as opposed to hearsay that men get dinged for right out of the gate

[Snaggletooth]

For every one of these stories I have some of my own, about abstentee fathers and financial hardship and broken hearts - in these situations, safer to keep focused on the bigger picture, acknowledge that it's difficult on both parts and leave it at that .

 

I have plenty of those stories too, I know many a man who has screwed over his wife and kid. Addressing the failure to raise good, marriage minded men with the knowledge and tools to be a husband and father would help that, though.

[Bigcitydreamer]

I would love to get married to the right guy as I would love to have a family and a family life style eventually. But maybe if the courts stopped granting full custody to mothers unless it was necessary. Things could and should be more equal in that department. It seems that's the way the trends are going. I know a couple of guys who have 50-50 custody because they live in the same town as the mother and child and it's entirely feasible. Due to the fact that both parents work usually, custody and finances should be fair across the board.

 

If you get married and have a family and then later realize you made a mistake there still is going to be a price to pay no matter what. It costs a lot of money to raise a kid and is undeniably easier on the finances if both parents are together and living in the same home as they can split expenses and not have to worry about splitting things with a new partner and their prior family.

 

Both women and men get screwed in divorces and need to accept their own responsibilities in the matter and just take the loss and try to move on from there.

[Tayken]

Here is another...why is it that as the generations goes down, there are more and more females that can't cook / becoming more untidy / hate chores? I mean gardening is becoming something that men dominate....am some of you have noticed this and know places with 'master gardeners' that are males.

 

Most chefs seem to be males (proper chefs), as opposed to people that boil egg on tv and capitalize on their looks . Why are parents not getting a grip on this and just churning out kids that are useless at most homely chores? Negotiating with your kids to tidy their room, wash their own clothes and being a chauffeur for them at a teenage age is just damn right wrong

 

I happen to be very confident in the kitchen, and love gardening to bits, I never realized I had a green thumb until I moved to North America...everything I plant just goes gangbusters, and my ex killed some because she couldn't figure out that all she had to do to help is just point a hose and feed the plants

 

It costs a lot of money to raise a kid and is undeniably easier on the finances if both parents are together and living in the same home as they can split expenses and not have to worry about splitting things with a new partner and their prior family.

Just to educate you, you don't have to stay together. In the case of 50-50 situation, child support is offset. Extracurricular activities over $100 are proportionate to income. University requires a kid with a job to contribute 1/3, then the rest is proportionate to parents income.

 

Both women and men get screwed in divorces

The highest earner usually, and here is why...the courts don't say because Mrs x only paid x amount because she earned less, Mr Y gets 70% for contributing Y.....regardless of all this, finances are split 50-50. Add on to this possibility of alimony on top of child support and you are bankrupted for life depending on how many kids

 

To give you an idea, look at the table in the link for payment depending on number of kids

 

http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/fl-df/child-enfant/fcsg-lfpae/2011/pdf/ona.pdf

 

Failure to pay can see your wages garnished and driver's licence seized

Edited December 28, 2014 by Tayken

[Bigcitydreamer]

Here is another...why is it that as the generations goes down, there are more and more females that can't cook / becoming more untidy / hate chores? I mean gardening is becoming something that men dominate....am some of you have noticed this and know places with 'master gardeners' that are males.

 

Most chefs seem to be males (proper chefs), as opposed to people that boil egg on tv and capitalize on their looks . Why are parents not getting a grip on this and just churning out kids that are useless at most homely chores? Negotiating with your kids to tidy their room, wash their own clothes and being a chauffeur for them at a teenage age is just damn right wrong

 

I happen to be very confident in the kitchen, and love gardening to bits, I never realized I had a green thumb until I moved to North America...everything I plant just goes gangbusters, and my ex killed some because she couldn't figure out that all she had to do to help is just point a hose and feed the plants

 

Just to educate you, you don't have to stay together. In the case of 50-50 situation, child support is offset. Extracurricular activities over $100 are proportionate to income. University requires a kid with a job to contribute 1/3, then the rest is proportionate to parents income.

 

The highest earner usually, and here is why...the courts don't say because Mrs x only paid x amount because she earned less, Mr Y gets 70% for contributing Y.....regardless of all this, finances are split 50-50. Add on to this possibility of alimony on top of child support and you are bankrupted for life depending on how many kids

 

To give you an idea, look at the table in the link for payment depending on number of kids

 

http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/fl-df/child-enfant/fcsg-lfpae/2011/pdf/ona.pdf

 

Failure to pay can see your wages garnished and driver's licence seized

 

Well yes failure to pay should equal garnished wages because you can't just choose not to help raise your child for a month here and there.

 

Most of the stuff you listed sounds pretty positive to me. I don't much believe in making things perfectly dependent on wages. As an example if a nurse and doctor broke up regardless of salaries id expect them to pay roughly equal amounts regardless of income. So for the month day care costs amount to a total of $2000 (no idea actual cost haha), then each pay $1000. Maybe 900 and 1100 if the doctor was making over double the wages of the nurse. In cases where one parent has stayed at home and hasn't earned then things would have to fall on the higher earner for a period of time and then it would have to equal out as it would be the responsibility of the stay at home person a decent job to support themselves and their child.

 

In my parents case child support was absolutely necessary as my mom in no way shape or form afford to keep a roof over our heads as she spent most of her life as a SAHM. She immediately went to school after the divorce and got her red seal in a well paying trade. She now makes more than my dad and is receiving nothing from him. So yeah my dad paid a but more in the beginning for 2 or so years, if he hadn't of we would have been homeless.

[CALOVELY]

I know...there are millions of similar stories around the world, and you will be hard pushed to meet a man who claims he got more than he came into the relationship with (child/ren aside).

 

 

 

 

That is the key word, claims. Assets accumulate over a marriage so yes, most men leave a marriage with more than they came in to it with. A house, investment portfolio, retirement accounts, etc. are things most men do not have when they marry for the first time. Splitting those things in divorce is still a net positive vs. what they arrived with.

[autumnnight]

The reason emerging young adults are helpless and messy and useless at chores is because they were raised in "child centered" homes by helicopter moms and dads who blaimed the teacher when junior got into trouble and passed out trophies to any kids who showed up for soccer practice. And it's embarrassingly shameful, IMO.

[most_distant_galaxy]

You say that I but I can tell you endless horror stories from my friends divorces. Like a mate, a carpenter, who spent 15 years living in a caravan while building his own home by hand. It was a work of art, a labour of love, hand carved timbers depicting animals and wildlife, stunning, his life's dream and amition. Shortly after the house was finished he met a woman and married. Two years later she had a baby. It was obvious it wasn't his, neither he or his wife were black. She got the house, he is back in the caravan.

 

Another mate. Ran a car workshop. He'd worked hard in life and done well. He first married when he was fifty. The wife cheated when he was 53. She got the house and half of all his assets. He now lives in a bedsit and drives buses for a living. That's his life now, that's what he does, no retirement, no money.

 

Another mate. Nicest man I've ever known. She got the house, pension and he hasn't seen his kids for 8 years. Every time he tries to get access his wife cries wolf and accuses him of sexual assault. He has no money left from trying to fight it. Back in with his parents and at his age he will never afford to start again.

 

I could go on and on. I could tell of two mates who ended up hanging themselves. Of fell's so skint they live in sheds or cars. Even them who got off lucky will never afford retirement or be able to get a mortgage or own a home again. They will be working until the day they drop dead. The process is very unfair.

 

I agree that divorces can be very hard, even on really good and lovely men.

 

I have a friend who is 45 and filed for divorce because his wife had a lover. His ex wife is very beautiful but awful. She took the kids, he has to pay full support because she isnt educated and doesnt have a good job, she keeps the kids with dirty/old clothes so people pity them and think that their dad doesnt help them. When they visit their dad, he buys them new clothes and when they go back home their mum throws them in the trash and dresses them again with the old ones. Their mum leaves the kids with their grandmother all the time and she's going out with her boyfriend. The kids want to go live with their dad but they are not allowed to because they are not adults. My friend is a wonderful father and person. He suffers because of the divorce, but at least he is in a good relationship with a much younger educated woman (25 years old) who runs successfully her own business. They are happy, but his lowself worth after the divorce drives his girlfriend crazy.

 

A relative of mine in his 50ies who is a wonderful, educated person, married an awful woman who had an affair with their best man.. For years. They have three daughters who adore their dad. His wife has never worked and has no education. He works two jobs. He pays child support. His eldest moved in with him when she turned 18 because she doesnt want to be with her mum. His second is 15 years old and begs us to watch her daddy. His youngest is probably not his... And he knows it, but he didnt want to have a dna paternity test, he didnt want to use the child against his ex wife in court... He is SUCH good quality. And the cherry on top, his wife put a restraining order against him, after threatening him that she will destroy him... Just because he filed for the divorce. He doesnt want to date after all this adventure.

 

So its understandable that there are many hurt men about this topic, rightfully so. And I think they are bitter because they still arent over their divorce. But someday they will be, and they will make a better choice of partner. And maybe they will think again of marriage as something wonderful...