WS confusion

[duckrabbit]

Hello to all of you out there.

 

 

It has been almost a month since DDay for us and, as is expected, my head is still a mess of different emotions and questions. We have started MC but have had to take a break for the holidays. Our first session was interesting and brought up a lot of past resentments on her part that I didn't know still existed.

 

 

What I am having trouble with right now is my WS' behavior since we have started the R process. Since her moods and mental state have stabilized some, she seems to have gone back to how she was before the A. She is doing many things right; constant apologizing, spending more time with the kids, asking how I am doing, etc. She has granted me, after a few requests, complete transparency into emails and phone use. Even though she has broken NC a few times since DDay, I haven't found any further attempts on her part to reach him in several days. What troubles me is the fact that this almost seems too easy on her part and, therefore, not genuine. While it is nice that she asks what she can do to make me feel better, I don't really know how to answer this question as I don't completely know how to feel better.

 

 

On Christmas Eve, I had a major emotional meltdown. She sat there stating that she loves me, but showed no actual emotion herself. She couldn't even bring herself to give any physical contact and kept offering to leave. Not sure why I didn't accept that offer. Another bothersome activity, is her constant need/desire for sex. She claims that this is us reconnecting, though, again, I don't know if I buy that. It seems like she thinks she can f**k her way back into my good graces.

 

 

This behavior all seems very strange to me and not truly remorseful or a solid start to a successful R based on what I have read here. I need some feedback from you people. Once we get home from vacation I am doing a private session with the MC, in which I will bring up a lot of these points. My friends that I confide in have been helpful, but they've never been through this and don't have the level of expertise I can find here. What say you?

[road]

HB, hysterical bonding is the term for when the WS and the BS go into increased levels of sex. It is a healing process. HB happens after affairs for many WS and BS. HB can last for up to six months. Though I have read from a couple of BH that it never ended.

[Zenstudent]

I'm sorry you have to face this experience, all betrayed spouses wish they didn't have to. I'm sure you'll get more support in the following hours/days, but here's a few thoughts from my end.

 

Was it an EA or PA? How long was the affair? Who was OM? Age? DO you have kids?

 

Did your wife face any consequences of her actions? Did/does she realize the damage she has done to your relationship? Has she taken responsibility for her actions or does she blameshift?

 

One problem that I think many couples experience is, that you see things completely different. She may believe that everything will return to normal, she stops cheating and you just need to get over it. She doesn't understand that trust has been broken and that you see her in a completely different light now. She's probably a total stranger to you.

 

Another thing that stroke me is, that it isn't clear to me that she has established no contact with OM? If not - MC is a waste of time and money.

[Darren Steez]

I don't think this is hysterical bonding at all.

 

The OP seems to know that his wife appears on the surface to be doing the right things but there seems to be no emotion to back it up.

 

Stop having sex. More seems like she realized she was about to lose her home and life and is doing everything in her power to keep it. But if you're not genuine with remorse then at times it's hard to fake it.

 

Also be very wary, you said she seems to have gone back to the way she was before the affair..you do realize you don't know exactly when the shift occurred when she started to be interested in the OM, or if even prior to that she harbored any thoughts of straying, so in essence the waters seem calm but it's all about what's going on in her head and whether down the line when everything has quietened down she will do it again.

 

You're only a month out, it's way too soon. You might think you're in R but if you rug sweep it will be false R because you haven't affair proofed the marriage.

Edited December 29, 2014 by Darren Steez

[harrybrown]

Has she given you a detailed written timeline of the A and all of her activities?

 

She sent him some nice videos, etc.

 

what has she done for you?

 

She spent all that energy in the A and hiding and cheating. What energy is she using to help you heal?

 

If you had the A, how would she handle it?

[oldshirt]

There's hysterical bonding but then there's also "Hoovering". Hoovering is using lots of sex to suck you into letting things slide and keeping her around until she feels you aren't keeping a close eye on things and then she goes back to the OM or other guys.

 

To differentiate between the two is whether it seems like she is being methodical and doing intentionally or whether it's emotional based or even out of control (ie "hysterical" ).

 

If your gut is telling you she is doing it intentionally and methodically, it is Hoovering to soften you up and suck you in and not something she is feeling in her heart.

[fellini]

And of course maybe only being one month post dday you are suffering from hyper vigilance, hyper sensitivity and extreme interpretation.

 

There is no such thing as "going back".

 

If your WS can in fact ACT as a normal human being while working through R, it might be a huge blessing. A WS that bends over backwards to please day in and day out is ultimately inauthentic. I would rather know that the person I chose to stay married to post dday is being herself, and not acting out remorse.

 

Remember that she is detoxing from the A all the while she is trying to reconcile. It's only been a month, do you considered that sufficient time to rid the AP from her emotional system? It took my WS no less than 6 months to really disconnect - im not talking NC I'm talking ending her emotional commitment to him - and this has nothing to do with reaching out. Later she did some narcissistic hovering whereby she put herself in a situation in which she could make eye contact in order to see if he was suffering for her. This set us back considerably.

Edited December 29, 2014 by fellini

[Rainbowlove]

And of course maybe only being one month post dday you are suffering from hyper vigilance, hyper sensitivity and extreme interpretation.

 

There is no such thing as "going back".

 

If your WS can in fact ACT as a normal human being while working through R, it might be a huge blessing. A WS that bends over backwards to please day in and day out is ultimately inauthentic. I would rather know that the person I chose to stay married to post dday is being herself, and not acting out remorse.

 

Remember that she is detoxing from the A all the while she is trying to reconcile. It's only been a month, do you considered that sufficient time to rid the AP from her emotional system? It took my WS no less than 6 months to really disconnect - im not talking NC.

 

This is really good. ^^^^^^^

 

I am the WS. We've are over 1 year into recovery. This was my relationship with my AP (I'm lesbian. She was married to a man for over two decades. I am married to a woman for 20 years). I met my AP at work. We became friends for the first year, emotional affair for the next year (spouses knowing about it) and then PA for 6 months, after I moved out of my family home. Nothing about my relationship with AP was ever a secret to my wife or her husband.

 

This last year into recovery with my wife has been excruciating. My moods all over the place...vacillating between sadness and missing for AP, sadness for how I hurt my wife, for how I hurt my AP's husband, for hurting all our children...then acceptance of what I did, to more shock and disbelief trying to pin point how it happened, then back to remorse and relief and sadness and despair and gut wrenching "I want to die" pain...it's a slow debilitating process.

 

The WS has a process to go through, the BS has a process to go through and then the couple has a process to go through. None of it is easy, but if you can get there, it's worth it.

 

Even this weekend, my wife and I had to have break down crying talks about it. She worries I feel like I made the wrong choice returning to my marriage and that I'm going to leave her to go back to my AP, who left her marriage. The key is we talk about our fears now. We talk about how we react to our fear. We talk and listen to each other, which is something we didn't do very well prior to our affair. We are learning how to communicate with each other. But this is 1 year into it. We know we are not better off without each other and neither is our child. We are committed to seeing this through the hard days - and there are still hard days, but the good days are out weighting the bad now and we can have awesome days full of love and joy - we are getting there after 1 year.

 

I don't think the affair ever leaves us, nor should it. It reminds us of who we never want to be again. It reminds us what's at stake. It reminds me to keep working towards being a better person, better partner and better parent.

 

I also don't look too far a head and live more in the moment. I take each day as it comes and deal with that day and whatever emotions it brings. I'm feeling more peace now and peace is not something you can put a price tag on. Inner peace was shattered by my affair, but we can find it again.

 

Don't look too closely or expect her to appear normal right now. There is no normal. And your old marriage is dead, but if you can both do your work as individuals and as a couple, you can rebuild what was broken and become one again.

 

She cannot have any contact with him. None. That is critical. You have 3 small children, it's worth the fight for them - at least until you know you are done trying to fix it. No one expects you to have that answer 1 month in.

 

Be gentle with yourself. Stay in counseling. Keep talking it out with her. Stay open and honest about what you are feeling. Talk. Talk. Talk.

[Bryanp]

What have been the consequences of her affair?

Have you both been tested for STD's?

If the roles were reversed do you think she would be as accepting as you have been?

If her lover was married did you expose this to his wife or girlfriend?

 

If your gut is telling you that does not really feel it that it may be that her lover ended it or she is simply fearful of losing her lifestyle with you.

 

It does seem odd. What were her reasons for sexually betraying you? What did she think the consequences would be to her if any?

[Clay]

This does not sound like this is going to work out well for you. It sounds like she is more sorry she got caught than she is that you were hurt.

 

NC is really just that. If you do not set consequences up for No Contact then your telling her its ok to continue to abuse you.

 

I would make it very clear. I would go have the divorce paper work drawn up and I would lay it out on the table. I would just tell her if she breaks the No Contact agreement again you will file. If she does you need to really file and not just say well.....

 

I think the question you have to ask yourself is what are you worth. Do you deserve this behavior. Do you really have to walk on egg shells in your own home when she is the one who did the wrong.

 

I think you need to check yourself into counceling and invest back into you. If you do not do this then she will continue to walk on you.

 

No one deserves to be cheated on. Its not your fault that she cheated. It will be your fault if you don't start setting healthy boundaries for you. In the end if this means divorcing her then that is what you just might need to do.

 

I personally never recommend staying with a cheater. I think the odds that they will only do it once are so slim that you have a better chance at winning the lottery than her stay faithful.

 

I hope you take time out today to get help.

 

Clay

[Mr. Lucky]

Even though she has broken NC a few times since DDay

 

I'm surprised you drop this in so casually. In a month she's already broken NC a "few" times? Two? Three? Four contacts with her OM?

 

You haven't even gotten to the hard part yet ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[dichotomy]

I'm surprised you drop this in so casually. In a month she's already broken NC a "few" times? Two? Three? Four contacts with her OM?

 

You haven't even gotten to the hard part yet ...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

 

 

Ditto - she is NOT doing the right type of work. When she asks you what you need ......this should be #1. What has the therapist to say about her continued contact with OM?

[Bryanp]

"Even though she has broken NC a few times since DDay".

 

Are you out of your mind? She is playing you like a fiddle and you are in total denial. You seem like one of the nice guys and THAT she knew she could screw her lover and even if caught you would accept her back so she had nothing to worry about.

 

Breaking NC after DDay should have been a deal breaker for you. She has shown that she clearly has very little respect for you and your marriage and had no problem putting your health at risk for STD's behind your back. If the roles were reversed would she have been so accepting and forgiving as you have been. Nobody and I mean nobody respects a doormat.

 

IF YOU DO NOT RESPECT YOURSELF THEN WHO WILL?

[Spectre]

The fact that she has broken no contact even once shows she has no love or respect for you. Do yourself a favor and make your new years resolution one that involves divorcing this woman.

 

It's like..okay I could never forgive cheating, but if any cheater expects to be forgiven? Sorry, the person you cheated with DOES NOT EXIST anymore, period. There should be no contact, ever. It's a simple thing to do, and if she can't do that for you then..well, adios.

[jm2013]

Duckrabbit,

 

Make sure your wife is still taking the pill if she used to. If you're in an unsure state about your marriage right now make sure you take measures to thwart a pregnancy. Some women go nutty and will get you to inseminate her while you "think" she may perhaps still be taking the pill so she knows you'll stick around. It's like forcing your hand into something you don't really want to do.

[duckrabbit]

Thanks for all of your responses. I am going to try and go through some of my own replies now; I've been out of the loop due to holidays.

 

>>Was it an EA or PA? How long was the affair? Who was OM? Age? DO you have kids?

 

 

Both. The affair was approximately 3 months long with a coworker who lives in another state. We do have three kids and doing what is best for them is my main concern here.

 

>>Did your wife face any consequences of her actions? Did/does she realize the damage she has done to your relationship? Has she taken responsibility for her actions or does she blameshift?

 

 

Aside from complete transparency there haven't been consequences yet. I haven't kicked her out because I feel that wouldn't be the proper response if we are going to R and that it would be too jarring for the kids to go through having her leave and then possibly return. She claims to realize the damage and take responsibility, but, after our first session of marriage counseling and our own conversations, I am not sure that I believe her.

 

>>She doesn't understand that trust has been broken and that you see her in a completely different light now. She's probably a total stranger to you.

 

 

This is exactly what it is.

 

As far as no contact is concerned, she has sent him some messages on yahoo messenger since this all came out; however, I confronted her about those and she deleted the app from her phone. He is still on her speed dial and I noticed a phone call to his store in North Carolina on the 19th. It was only a 40 second call, but it still strikes a red flag for me.

 

 

I am inclined to agree with everything that you say, Clay. I am going to discuss this strategy with my IC when I go back.

 

 

>>Has she given you a detailed written timeline of the A and all of her activities?

 

 

 

No, but I wouldn't trust any timeline from her anyway. I have my own detailed chat logs that I intercepted and have put together a timeline from that which checks out against what she has told me thus far.

 

>>what has she done for you? She spent all that energy in the A and hiding and cheating. What energy is she using to help you heal?

 

 

So far, not much. She has spent time reconnecting with the kids, which is great, but I don't feel like she has done much for me aside from apologize profusely and ask me how I am doing, which seems like more of an annoyance than anything because I don't always know how to respond without lashing out and I am not going to do that in front of the kids.

 

>>If you had the A, how would she handle it?

 

 

I have no doubt she would have thrown me out immediately. She is very emotional and would have no qualms throwing a huge fit in front of the kids and making a big scene.

 

>>Have you both been tested for STD's?

 

 

So far, she still hasn't gone despite my urging and the urging of the MC.

 

>>If her lover was married did you expose this to his wife or girlfriend?

 

 

I tried calling his wife at work but she instead called him and panicked. He then called me and I told him it was his responsibility to confess and, if he didn't, I would find a way to get her the truth.

 

>>It does seem odd. What were her reasons for sexually betraying you? What did she think the consequences would be to her if any?

 

 

She claims that her reasons came from a self destructive pattern that she doesn't fully understand yet herself. The reasons she gives are nebulous and not really satisfactory to me. I honestly don't think that she thought about consequences at all. She thought she was hiding it well when she was really quite sloppy about the whole thing.

 

 

>>Remember that she is detoxing from the A all the while she is trying to reconcile. It's only been a month, do you considered that sufficient time to rid the AP from her emotional system?

 

 

I get this, but I really don't have a ton of sympathy here. I think that she should have performed the emotional equivalent of a bulimic episode the moment I confronted her if she honestly values our marriage. After all, the A is a relationship that never should have been. Why should I allow 'sufficient time' for her to process her wrongdoing? After all, I wasn't allowed any sort of timely discovery of the A in the first place. Maybe this is just bitterness talking; however, in this case, I really don't mind being bitter.

[drifter777]

You sound like a classic codependent and your wife sounds like she has narcissistic tendencies. You seem determined to reconcile no matter what your WW does - like you need to fix all this and get your family life back to normal. The problem with this path is that you can't attend to your personal recovery focusing all your attention on smoothing all of this over. That won't work in the long run but you seem doomed to this fate.

 

Are you working on your codependency with your IC?

[jnel921]

When I decided to reconcile with my WH it meant that we both had to commit to trying to make the M work and rebuild what was broken.

 

Breaking NC isn't an effort to save your M. It is a clear message that she is missing and still wants to communicate with the AP. A total deal breaker in my opinion.

 

You do what you want. But sounds like she is not into it 100 percent and is patronizing your emotions. You may be in denial. Good Luck.

[Mr. Lucky]

Thanks for all of your responses. I am going to try and go through some of my own replies now; I've been out of the loop due to holidays.

 

>>Was it an EA or PA? How long was the affair? Who was OM? Age? DO you have kids?

 

 

Both. The affair was approximately 3 months long with a coworker who lives in another state. We do have three kids and doing what is best for them is my main concern here.

 

>>Did your wife face any consequences of her actions? Did/does she realize the damage she has done to your relationship? Has she taken responsibility for her actions or does she blameshift?

 

 

Aside from complete transparency there haven't been consequences yet. I haven't kicked her out because I feel that wouldn't be the proper response if we are going to R and that it would be too jarring for the kids to go through having her leave and then possibly return. She claims to realize the damage and take responsibility, but, after our first session of marriage counseling and our own conversations, I am not sure that I believe her.

 

>>She doesn't understand that trust has been broken and that you see her in a completely different light now. She's probably a total stranger to you.

 

 

This is exactly what it is.

 

As far as no contact is concerned, she has sent him some messages on yahoo messenger since this all came out; however, I confronted her about those and she deleted the app from her phone. He is still on her speed dial and I noticed a phone call to his store in North Carolina on the 19th. It was only a 40 second call, but it still strikes a red flag for me.

 

 

I am inclined to agree with everything that you say, Clay. I am going to discuss this strategy with my IC when I go back.

 

 

>>Has she given you a detailed written timeline of the A and all of her activities?

 

 

 

No, but I wouldn't trust any timeline from her anyway. I have my own detailed chat logs that I intercepted and have put together a timeline from that which checks out against what she has told me thus far.

 

>>what has she done for you? She spent all that energy in the A and hiding and cheating. What energy is she using to help you heal?

 

 

So far, not much. She has spent time reconnecting with the kids, which is great, but I don't feel like she has done much for me aside from apologize profusely and ask me how I am doing, which seems like more of an annoyance than anything because I don't always know how to respond without lashing out and I am not going to do that in front of the kids.

 

>>If you had the A, how would she handle it?

 

 

I have no doubt she would have thrown me out immediately. She is very emotional and would have no qualms throwing a huge fit in front of the kids and making a big scene.

 

>>Have you both been tested for STD's?

 

 

So far, she still hasn't gone despite my urging and the urging of the MC.

 

>>If her lover was married did you expose this to his wife or girlfriend?

 

 

I tried calling his wife at work but she instead called him and panicked. He then called me and I told him it was his responsibility to confess and, if he didn't, I would find a way to get her the truth.

 

>>It does seem odd. What were her reasons for sexually betraying you? What did she think the consequences would be to her if any?

 

 

She claims that her reasons came from a self destructive pattern that she doesn't fully understand yet herself. The reasons she gives are nebulous and not really satisfactory to me. I honestly don't think that she thought about consequences at all. She thought she was hiding it well when she was really quite sloppy about the whole thing.

 

 

>>Remember that she is detoxing from the A all the while she is trying to reconcile. It's only been a month, do you considered that sufficient time to rid the AP from her emotional system?

 

 

I get this, but I really don't have a ton of sympathy here. I think that she should have performed the emotional equivalent of a bulimic episode the moment I confronted her if she honestly values our marriage. After all, the A is a relationship that never should have been. Why should I allow 'sufficient time' for her to process her wrongdoing? After all, I wasn't allowed any sort of timely discovery of the A in the first place. Maybe this is just bitterness talking; however, in this case, I really don't mind being bitter.

 

Almost every thing you post is contradictory. You can't R with someone you don't trust, respect or particularly seem to like. And her refusal to step up and work on your marriage means her mind and attention are elsewhere.

 

Why waste your time ???

 

Mr. Lucky

[beach]

Maybe she's still cheating?

 

Maybe more sex is to cover up her behavior? Manipulation for sure.

 

She isn't sorry she cheated - she is sorry she got caught.

 

She's had almost no consequences. In fact, you took her on vacation? What's that about? You're rewarding her bad behavior!

 

Make her totally afraid of losing everything! She might get more willing and genuine about repairing the damage she's caused if she is scared her whole life will be turned upside down because of her behavior.

 

Kick her out. Let her get good and scared!

 

Stop trying to "nice her" into being decent! She's still been contacting him = she is still cheating and is intentionally lying to you and harming you!

 

That's not someone who loves you = that's the enemy - and she's using you.

 

Expose to family. She deserves to know shame. She's made you the fool.

 

Stop being so nice to her - she's using you and walking all over you - because you have allowed it.

[Bryanp]

You are in major denial. Apparently you do not seem to mind that much that she has and continues to betray, humiliate and disrespect you before and after the affair. I have a hunch that she knew that since you are a nice guy that she could have a sexual affair and put your health at risk for STD's and that you nevertheless would always accept her back without consequences. In short, she had nothing to lose. Her actions indicates that she still cares more for the OM than you.

 

IF YOU DO NOT RESPECT YOURSELF THEN WHO WILL?

[Bittersweetie]

Hi Duck,

 

I'm a fWW. I'd like to point out that just as every BS deals with the aftermath of d-day differently, so does every WS who stays. It is an intensely emotional time, and for some people all that emotion is out there, and for some it is not. Everyone reacts differently.

 

That being said, I do have concern over the breaking of NC. After our d-day, my H made it VERY CLEAR that any contact would end our relationship, immediately. His exact words were, "World War 3 would occur." I had no doubt of that.

 

In the end, it is your choice now how to move forward. My H did not decide to stay or leave in the first few months after d-day. He made the decision to not make a decision because it was such an intense time. I can understand why, with 3 children, you don't want to pull the plug right away. But some other PPs do have valid points about her behavior after d-day. Maybe give yourself a deadline, of six months or something, and then make a decision. You will have some MC under your belt and possibly even a clearer perspective on the situation.

 

My H and I are still together, and it is 5 years after d-day. I will say that true reconciliation is very difficult. It takes a lot of work, time, and commitment.

 

Good luck,

BSW

[Spectre]

I think you should walk away, she is a cheater and she broke NC. She is upset she got caught, not that it happened.

[badkarma2013]

Hi Duck,

 

I'm a fWW. I'd like to point out that just as every BS deals with the aftermath of d-day differently, so does every WS who stays. It is an intensely emotional time, and for some people all that emotion is out there, and for some it is not. Everyone reacts differently.

 

That being said, I do have concern over the breaking of NC. After our d-day, my H made it VERY CLEAR that any contact would end our relationship, immediately. His exact words were, "World War 3 would occur." I had no doubt of that.

 

In the end, it is your choice now how to move forward. My H did not decide to stay or leave in the first few months after d-day. He made the decision to not make a decision because it was such an intense time. I can understand why, with 3 children, you don't want to pull the plug right away. But some other PPs do have valid points about her behavior after d-day. Maybe give yourself a deadline, of six months or something, and then make a decision. You will have some MC under your belt and possibly even a clearer perspective on the situation.

 

My H and I are still together, and it is 5 years after d-day. I will say that true reconciliation is very difficult. It takes a lot of work, time, and commitment.

 

Good luck,

BSW

 

 

*****************************************************************

Bittersweetie,

I have a question and you certainly do not have to answer...I am a BH

and you sound intelligent and are well written...

 

Briefly what caused you to have an A...I could not R...and filed for D Immediatly but mine was different than most...

 

I sometimes wonder if the WS ever realizes what the aftermath after D_DAY will be like...

 

I am not asking to condem you..the is enough of that here...maybe some insight will help...thank you badkarma

[Bittersweetie]

*****************************************************************

Bittersweetie,

I have a question and you certainly do not have to answer...I am a BH

and you sound intelligent and are well written...

 

Briefly what caused you to have an A...I could not R...and filed for D Immediatly but mine was different than most...

 

I sometimes wonder if the WS ever realizes what the aftermath after D_DAY will be like...

 

I am not asking to condem you..the is enough of that here...maybe some insight will help...thank you badkarma

 

Badkarma, I started a thread on my situation in 2013. You can find it here:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/421926-my-story-fww

 

Hope this helps,

BSW