Something has Changed in the Women

[cdt76]

I'm a 43 year old man, with a great career and lifestyle and I was married for 10 years prior to getting a divorce because she "didn't know how to love me and the kids at the same time". Now, when she said this it hurt me more than I realized but years later, what she said comes back to me as a symptom of things in our world today that I believe has caused women (and probably men) to change. I believe in the last 20 years, women have changed. I'm coming at this from a perspective as a completely happy, attractive and sincere man, so forgive me if this is one sided. I've dated now for 7 years and have met all kinds of women. I've been developing this theory and have now come to put it to paper. Here is why I think women have changed and the next step is to go about overcoming it.

 

1) I believe OLD has changed the game forever. It has become too easy to "find something better" and I mean this for both genders. If you meet someone and hit a rough patch it is way too easy to just say pound sand and go online and find someone else.

 

When women do this, they don't allow any time or self introspection for healing. I can't tell you how many women I have met who are online and less than a week out of a relationship that broke badly. Too many to count actually. Men are more easily able to adapt to this type of change because we don't invest as much emotion into relationships right off the bat.

 

2) Since many fathers suck at being fathers, raising children has caused women to be unable to rearrange priorities to make room for a man in her life. I've experienced this on a number of occasions. Men get moved down the priority list while married and after divorce women are not willing to make men a priority because of whatever past hurt they have experienced.

 

3) Men on OLD sites tend to be seen as creepy and psychotic because of the sheer number of messages they send and the wacky crap they say to get a womans attention and therefore being "a nice guy" is no longer the norm and is seen as some type of closet sociopath by women. Women meet so few nice guys that they no longer know how to handle a nice man who is happy with no other agenda than to live happily.

 

This is just my theory from my own personal experience. People are not willing to make the necessary emotional committment to relationships anymore. Either that or they are just not able to commit the necessary emotions to a relationship because of past issues. Either way, the game has changed.

[Rydo]

I agree it has probably changed. I'm not old enough to remember a time before this. But I like the way it is at the moment personally.

[Trenton100]

People are not willing to make the necessary emotional committment to relationships anymore. Either that or they are just not able to commit the necessary emotions to a relationship because of past issues. Either way, the game has changed.

 

Tell me about it. Right now I'm dealing with someone who is feels like she needs to stay "protected" because she has a bad string of cheaters in her life. That's fine and dandy until I try to have a conversation outside of the normal only to get short responses.

 

 

I really like her too. Good personality and we're both attracted to each other. The problem is if the conversations don't pick up, then everything is going to fade out. There's no reason to think you can simply keep texting and continue to keep everything short and develop anything.

 

 

So then I stop and think to myself "What was the point of signing up to begin with?"

 

 

I've already decided that I'm done with OLD. I hope it works out with her but if not, no way in hell I'm signing back up to any of those sites.

Edited December 29, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[cdt76]

What do you like about it? Unemotional sex and move on to the next?

[Tayken]

I agree it has probably changed. I'm not old enough to remember a time before this. But I like the way it is at the moment personally.

 

 

Be careful what you wish for, like you said you are NOT old enough to remember what it was like.

 

@OP....good points, but why did she bother having kids in the first place, because society expects it / friends were having kids?

 

she "didn't know how to love me and the kids at the same time".

 

This of course is completely BS because guess what...she is going to start dating, and then doing exactly what she says she can't do and more on the men she is going to be meeting on a regular basis. Some of the stuff my dates have done to me, I am sure they probably didn't do half of that to their husbands when they were married

[Rydo]

What do you like about it? Unemotional sex and move on to the next?

 

I like not having to settle for someone just because the perfect girl doesn't go to the same places as me or part of the same social circle.

 

But now that you bring it up I dont mind a bit of unemotional sex too.

[TigerCub]

Hey cdt,

 

I honestly read your post with an open mind because unlike what you think, there are women out there that want to consider all sides of issues and get introspective.

 

I think you are right in the fact that the game has changed.

You are right in that some women put their kids first and change after having kids and it becomes all about their kids (I can't personally speak on that either way because I don't have kids and don't know what it's like - but I do at least acknowledge that the dynamic shifts when kids are brought into a relationship).

 

I just found the part in bold rather amusing

I'm a 43 year old man, with a great career and lifestyle and I was married for 10 years prior to getting a divorce because she "didn't know how to love me and the kids at the same time". Now, when she said this it hurt me more than I realized but years later, what she said comes back to me as a symptom of things in our world today that I believe has caused women (and probably men) to change. I believe in the last 20 years, women have changed. I'm coming at this from a perspective as a completely happy, attractive and sincere man, so forgive me if this is one sided. I've dated now for 7 years and have met all kinds of women. I've been developing this theory and have now come to put it to paper. Here is why I think women have changed and the next step is to go about overcoming it.

 

1) I believe OLD has changed the game forever. It has become too easy to "find something better" and I mean this for both genders. If you meet someone and hit a rough patch it is way too easy to just say pound sand and go online and find someone else.

 

When women do this, they don't allow any time or self introspection for healing. I can't tell you how many women I have met who are online and less than a week out of a relationship that broke badly. Too many to count actually. Men are more easily able to adapt to this type of change because we don't invest as much emotion into relationships right off the bat.

 

2) Since many fathers suck at being fathers, raising children has caused women to be unable to rearrange priorities to make room for a man in her life. I've experienced this on a number of occasions. Men get moved down the priority list while married and after divorce women are not willing to make men a priority because of whatever past hurt they have experienced.

 

3) Men on OLD sites tend to be seen as creepy and psychotic because of the sheer number of messages they send and the wacky crap they say to get a womans attention and therefore being "a nice guy" is no longer the norm and is seen as some type of closet sociopath by women. Women meet so few nice guys that they no longer know how to handle a nice man who is happy with no other agenda than to live happily.

 

This is just my theory from my own personal experience. People are not willing to make the necessary emotional committment to relationships anymore. Either that or they are just not able to commit the necessary emotions to a relationship because of past issues. Either way, the game has changed.

 

It's funny. You are so certain that women

have daddy issues

fall too quickly and don't take time to get over a break up

yet, in another sentence you claim that they don't commit emotionally

and yet, when guys act creepy - hey, it's just them being "wacky" to get a woman's attention.

 

I agree the game has changed, but I don't think it's true that all women out there don't invest in a guy, or have daddy issues, or don't want a nice guy.

 

It's funny this morning as I was getting ready I thought "hmmm, young love was the best - I miss that feeling' -

and it's true. I remember the first love and how excited we both were about each other and how there were no games to be played, it was so sincere and genuine and neither one of us held back what we felt, and neither one of us was scared to love completely and openly.

But I think as time goes on and we get older and we get f**ked along the way (not in a good way), we get used, we get hurt and we get jaded and guarded and we can never fall fearlessly anymore and I personally think it applies to both genders and it's sad, but that's the way it is.

 

Everyone has issues, it's not just women and it's not just men.

Along the way everyone gets hurt and learns to look out for red flags (whether they are always there or not, or always valid isn't the case) - we just get guarded and fear falling.

[nofeelings22]

Agreed entirely and have the same age group and 10 year marriage the OP had.

 

The dating world is drastically different that 10 years ago. I actually prefer less meaningless sex and more feelings, but all the women want is a string of hookups. So I'm in.

 

It's a whole new world out there for us who were married. Very interesting trends... but as I have come to realize, you can't change the world, you can only change yourself.

 

So mindless sex and friendship (if you are lucky enough to get friendship) it is.

[Winterina]

I'm not old enough to remember a time before this. But I like the way it is at the moment personally.

 

Ha! Gottcha!!

 

 

Anyway, OP, not everyone is the way you describe, in fact, I do not know why give so much weight to something that is not an option for many women. When broken up after relationship, people need to heal, and OLD is not an option. For me it never was in any situation. You must be well acquainted with those sites and your circle is limited to the stories that come from those sites, while you are missing the dating life that exists outside of it and is still very predominant mode of dating. I know guys who never were and never would go to dating sites. I know those who tried it and ran off.

 

 

As to your second point, the inability you are referring to is really because women these days have careers, because they have to provide for everything and do not want to depend on someone who has not proven to be dependable. As you say many man suck at being fathers... So if someone sucks as a father to your children, sure as hell he is moving down on the list of priorities. Women soon figure out, wait, I cannot rely on him, I have to do everything... and motherhood is exhausting 24 hour job in addition to your regular job. There is no room for another kid, the one you married.

As far as divorced women and past hurt... Does anyone really expect to be a priority to someone who has children? Maybe it has nothing to do with past hurt but with clear priorities which men might not like. Well, some men... immature ones.

[Tayken]

Ha! Gottcha!!

 

 

Anyway, OP, not everyone is the way you describe, in fact, I do not know why give so much weight to something that is not an option for many women. When broken up after relationship, people need to heal, and OLD is not an option. For me it never was in any situation. You must be well acquainted with those sites and your circle is limited to the stories that come from those sites, while you are missing the dating life that exists outside of it and is still very predominant mode of dating. I know guys who never were and never would go to dating sites. I know those who tried it and ran off.

 

 

As to your second point, the inability you are referring to is really because women these days have careers, because they have to provide for everything and do not want to depend on someone who has not proven to be dependable. As you say many man suck at being fathers... So if someone sucks as a father to your children, sure as hell he is moving down on the list of priorities. Women soon figure out, wait, I cannot rely on him, I have to do everything... and motherhood is exhausting 24 hour job in addition to your regular job. There is no room for another kid, the one you married.

As far as divorced women and past hurt... Does anyone really expect to be a priority to someone who has children? Maybe it has nothing to do with past hurt but with clear priorities which men might not like. Well, some men... immature ones.

 

Hmmm.."women" have careers these days, really..are we talking staying home / jobless / working in groceries / etc as demanding careers? The word SOME could have fit in there somewhere

 

Does anyone really expect to be a priority to a single father?

[Rydo]

Ha! Gottcha!!

.

 

I'm 30, not as young as you thought I'm sure

[cdt76]

Ha! Gottcha!!

 

 

Anyway, OP, not everyone is the way you describe, in fact, I do not know why give so much weight to something that is not an option for many women. When broken up after relationship, people need to heal, and OLD is not an option. For me it never was in any situation. You must be well acquainted with those sites and your circle is limited to the stories that come from those sites, while you are missing the dating life that exists outside of it and is still very predominant mode of dating. I know guys who never were and never would go to dating sites. I know those who tried it and ran off.

 

 

As to your second point, the inability you are referring to is really because women these days have careers, because they have to provide for everything and do not want to depend on someone who has not proven to be dependable. As you say many man suck at being fathers... So if someone sucks as a father to your children, sure as hell he is moving down on the list of priorities. Women soon figure out, wait, I cannot rely on him, I have to do everything... and motherhood is exhausting 24 hour job in addition to your regular job. There is no room for another kid, the one you married.

As far as divorced women and past hurt... Does anyone really expect to be a priority to someone who has children? Maybe it has nothing to do with past hurt but with clear priorities which men might not like. Well, some men... immature ones.

 

This is EXACTLY the mentality that I am talking about. For some reason, probably by our own male design, men are no longer seen as providers, caretakers. We are seen as "another kid" to many women. This is complete BS in my opinion. Which brings me to my last and most direct point. As I am not a "Kid" by any stretch of the imagination and have my life together, provide for myself and my children and live happily, it scares women off because they are not willing to give up the control over EVERYTHING anymore because no one can do it as well as they can. No one is capable of holding down a full time job, care for children, a house, friends, family like a woman. Which is so weird because I do and I do it without the bravado women do such as yourself. Because it is hard but it isn't overwhelming. It's life and I love mine and I think women who see a man as strong and stable as myself are scared off because the generation of forcefeeding that women can do everything a man can has given men the ability to say "fine, do it yourself". The female dynamic is broken in my opinion.

[Diezel]

It's a combination of OLD and cell phones along with "sexual freedom" that did it.

 

And it's not just women. It's women and men. Things aren't the same. I can't say whether it's better or not. Part of me realizes that monogamy is a man-made institution and it goes against our nature as mammals.

 

I dated 20 years ago and I can tell you, it's definitely not the same for either gender.

[cdt76]

Ladyluck you just proved my point. I believe more men are ready for that stable, long-lasting relationship than women are. The men you described are old enough to know when they like someone and don't play games to get it. It's not clingy. The men are interested in a relationship with you. When did this idea become a bad thing? WOW. My point was that when it ends, the men don't become emotionally unavailable because they didn't invest emotionally. Even the men you described above who have pursued you, I can imagine they weren't too upset when you turned down their advances and moved on rather quickly. Women have reframed the idea of pursuing a female as "clingy" and "creepy" when in reality men like that just know what they want and know what they like and they go after it. It's the women who place negative conotations on this phenomena and thereby destroy any chance of a lasting and great relationship.

[nofeelings22]

Ladyluck you just proved my point. I believe more men are ready for that stable, long-lasting relationship than women are. The men you described are old enough to know when they like someone and don't play games to get it. It's not clingy. The men are interested in a relationship with you. When did this idea become a bad thing? WOW. My point was that when it ends, the men don't become emotionally unavailable because they didn't invest emotionally. Even the men you described above who have pursued you, I can imagine they weren't too upset when you turned down their advances and moved on rather quickly. Women have reframed the idea of pursuing a female as "clingy" and "creepy" when in reality men like that just know what they want and know what they like and they go after it. It's the women who place negative conotations on this phenomena and thereby destroy any chance of a lasting and great relationship.

 

 

 

Just a slight correction to make.

 

"Creepy" (really dislike this word), is when they aren't interested in the guy at all. He then becomes"creepy" for being the pursuer.

 

If they have an interest, they guy avoids the creepy label, but can fall into "clingy" if they go tok quickly.

[Winterina]

This is EXACTLY the mentality that I am talking about. For some reason, probably by our own male design, men are no longer seen as providers, caretakers. We are seen as "another kid" to many women. This is complete BS in my opinion. Which brings me to my last and most direct point. As I am not a "Kid" by any stretch of the imagination and have my life together, provide for myself and my children and live happily, it scares women off because they are not willing to give up the control over EVERYTHING anymore because no one can do it as well as they can. No one is capable of holding down a full time job, care for children, a house, friends, family like a woman. Which is so weird because I do and I do it without the bravado women do such as yourself. Because it is hard but it isn't overwhelming. It's life and I love mine and I think women who see a man as strong and stable as myself are scared off because the generation of forcefeeding that women can do everything a man can has given men the ability to say "fine, do it yourself". The female dynamic is broken in my opinion.

 

Oh dear... I have trouble following your train of thoughts from posting to here.

What is your concrete concern? You came here to clarify something for YOURSELF not to open up general discussion if women have changed due to OLD. So why not in two sentences as clearly as possible state the issue and then we can know what are we talking about. Like this, I really don't see where are you going with this.

[LookAtThisPOst]

Yeah God forbid guys take this stuff more seriously than you apparently do.

 

I love that word "clingy". In translation: I want all of the benefits of seeing a guy without actually "seeing" the guy. I therefore defeat the purpose of dating by default.

 

Agreed. 100%

[cdt76]

It's a general discussion about the way women have changed in dating over the last decade. I don't need to clarify it because I live it. I think we all see the changes and no one wants to talk about it. Part of the problem really. Women need to talk about why they are changing and men need to figure out how to function in the new "clingy" "creepy" reality of dating today.

[LookAtThisPOst]

Ladyluck you just proved my point. I believe more men are ready for that stable, long-lasting relationship than women are. The men you described are old enough to know when they like someone and don't play games to get it. It's not clingy. The men are interested in a relationship with you. When did this idea become a bad thing? WOW. My point was that when it ends, the men don't become emotionally unavailable because they didn't invest emotionally. Even the men you described above who have pursued you, I can imagine they weren't too upset when you turned down their advances and moved on rather quickly. Women have reframed the idea of pursuing a female as "clingy" and "creepy" when in reality men like that just know what they want and know what they like and they go after it. It's the women who place negative conotations on this phenomena and thereby destroy any chance of a lasting and great relationship.[/QUOTe]

 

Nailed it! Some valid points being made. Men had evolved into not giving definitive dates and times for dates but would rather "half-ass" the method of asking a woman out by keeping it open-ended or ambiguous by saying, " Hey how about maybe we get together sometime? " Throwing the word "maybe" in there just makws me cringe

[Rejected Rosebud]

This is EXACTLY the mentality that I am talking about. For some reason, probably by our own male design, men are no longer seen as providers, caretakers. We are seen as "another kid" to many women.

My problem with all of this is that you seem to be super devoted to couching your theory 100% in gender stereotyping and besides the fact that I just don't like that, , it makes all of your premises dependent on us accepting your own gender bias. If a man is not "seen" as a provider and instead as a "kid" don't you think it might just be possible that these perceptions might be because of the man himself and not because "women have changed"? There are many men really like that!

Everybody has changed, dating is nothing like it was before OLD (which I have never even tried but I can tell ) We can all get instant gratification in our lives on all fronts if we have the means, women no more than men. If someone is venturing into dating looking for an embodiment of their gender stereotype I think they are doomed, if they look instead for an individual with compatible values and mutual attraction and all of that it will go better I think!

[Rejected Rosebud]

Women need to talk about why they are changing and men need to figure out how to function in the new "clingy" "creepy" reality of dating today.

Why do women "need" to talk about how we are changing? Everything is changing completely, do you think it is somehow appropriate for half of the population to remain stagnant so that dating is easier?

[Rejected Rosebud]

I love that word "clingy". In translation: I want all of the benefits of seeing a guy without actually "seeing" the guy. I therefore defeat the purpose of dating by default.

There really are "clingy" and "needy" people men are not exempt and you don't need to make up a new definition!

[Dallers]

Interesting post and true in many ways. I was in a 4 year relationship and I can tell you that before and after that relationship dating had changed so so much. Online Dating has made such a big difference for the good and bad depending what you are looking for in love and life.

 

It does get boring doing the casual thing...the drama wears off and then when you are ready to find someone who is slightly "normal" you are then filtering through all the people who are still gaming but covering up what they want very well to reach the bedroom.

 

I am enjoying it but at the same time it has changed me and sex has become easy and meaningless by having lots of it without as much of a challenge to get. I think I will not be enjoying myself next year when I hit 30 and start to consider finding one rather than many.

[Winterina]

It's a general discussion about the way women have changed in dating over the last decade. I don't need to clarify it because I live it. I think we all see the changes and no one wants to talk about it. Part of the problem really. Women need to talk about why they are changing and men need to figure out how to function in the new "clingy" "creepy" reality of dating today.

 

Women have not changed in abstract. If they changed, SOME of them, it is because men changed too. Word 'women' in your post is misleading the posters and the discussion. Dating has changed. Period.

But OLD did not change everybody and most of the people still have partners they met offline. Maybe everyone you are in contact with is on OLD sites, maybe because you find women online...

 

 

No one wants to talk about it? What? We all are here to talk about it. We all talk about it with our friends, partner and with people on LS. I don't know about your topic with your people around you but this should not be a taboo for anyone.

 

 

Why do you say clingy and creepy for dating today in the same thread where you claim how women have become a way more independent and cheat easily? I really have trouble getting your train of thoughts.

What exactly is your problem and confusion and what is it that you need to work on? Not all men, not even on this thread, think that reality of dating is your reality of dating. Guess you reap what you sow, I don't know.

[Rydo]

I no longer understand the point in this thread.

 

Women have changed? All women? Some women? Is it a nad change or good change? Does anyone have a right to tell women how to change and how not to?

 

 

I dont know, all that matters to me is that when all is said and done they still look good naked.