Something has Changed in the Women

[Detectingfreak]

This is a subject I feel very strongly about. Please understand I am speaking passionately about this rather than politely.

 

In all honesty, this entire thread is the what the "red pill" is about. Most people are mistakenly told red pill dating is something to improve your dating game only. In a sense, it goes hand in hand with learning how to be a MAN. If you improve yourself as a MAN, and improve your MASCULINE TRAITS, you WILL BE SUCCESSFUL in dating. Women naturally respond to those guys who are stable, successful (in one way or another), and are MASCULINE. Sure, there are exceptions and everyone likes something different. However, you can't apply exceptions to tried and true methods that are being PROVEN everyday.

 

Required reading for anyone interested: No More Mr. Nice Guy - Robert Glover

 

Synopsis: "Glover's premise is that nice guys have been conditioned by their childhoods and by society to believe that they will be successful only if they make everyone happy and never cause any problems for others. However, this desire for approval results in self-loathing. In other words, nice guys want approval, but don't think they deserve it. This creates internal frustration, since nice guys never try to obtain what they want in life. In addition, the nice guy's desire to obtain approval from everyone (especially women), causes him to actually behave in very un-nice ways. This includes dishonesty (about themselves) and passive-aggressive behavior ("being unavailable, forgetting, being late, not following through...").

 

Dr. Glover's prescription involves getting nice guys to recognize that their needs and desires are important, and that to make others happy they must first learn to make themselves happy. One of the primary ways advised in the book to remedy this is for nice guys to learn to embrace and develop their masculine traits, instead of fearing and suppressing them."

 

----

 

You want to be a better man? Today you start! Read this book. It will help immensely in your journey in becoming a MAN instead of a NICE GUY.

 

You want that woman to give you attention? Become the MAN she's innately attracted to.

 

You want that woman to stop putting you off when you want a date?

Become the MAN her body and mind can't refuse.

 

You want women to start asking YOU for second dates rather than having to do all the work (and concurrently being labeled as needy, clingy, or creepy?) Then read this book, among lots of others, and start becoming a MAN of value, rather than the BOY you've become.

 

Too many men stand around bitching about what went wrong. Sure, there's a time and place for that. But MEN are people of action. You want something in this world? You go and get it. Can't get it? Solve a ****ing problem and get closer to getting it.

 

Case in point:

You want a woman. You have problems with dates being interested. What do you do?

 

A. Sit and cry that the woman doesn't want you, doesn't appreciate you, etc.

 

B. Change yourself into what a woman, or other women, want.

 

Granted, there will be circumstances in which you are FINE and the woman you want / got dismissed by are simply not compatible. That's fine. Move on.

 

You want a woman to appreciate you?

Become the man that is appreciated. Attract the woman that will allow you to BE A MAN. Don't settle for less, don't try to change a feminist. That's like asking for a Honda Civic and expecting it to become an Aston Martin down the road. That's ludicrous.

 

It's amazing how many men want to complain about not attracting attention from the women, or being dismissed all the time.

 

If you want to attract women, become someone attractive.

 

It's that simple. It just takes work, something A MAN would be willing to do.

 

Forgive my novel. As I stated before, I feel very strongly about this subject. I have my own flaws and I am far from perfect, but attracting women has NEVER been a problem. Being in a healthy relationship, however.......cough.... I have issues that I need to fix (notice, ACTION in FIXING) in order to become better in a relationship, but that doesn't stop me from attracting women.

 

However, my skewed concept of what a MAN was in my younger days has since been replaced with what was once expected of men. My dealings with women, both in the past and present, have further validated this unspoken "truth" along with MILLIONS of other men in case anyone wants to question my credibility.

 

I want to settle down with someone. But before I settle down with someone, I need to make sure I am the MAN I want to be in order to attract the kind of WOMAN I want in my life.

 

Just takes commitment...and work.

 

I would rather be happy then spend all my efforts in finding the right woman then have her dump me. Just be happy. It takes too much time and effort then have it all be wasted. I have learned that the hard way. I will never go through that ever again. I vowed to never date again after my ex and my 7 different dates.

 

ALL WOMAN THINK WE ARE IS A FREE RIDE TO THEM. ALL THEY WANT IS MEALS, CLOTHES AND MONEY!

[Rejected Rosebud]

Men have allowed too much control of the relationships to be taken over by the female side and once that power is taken women will not give it back and usually the relationship falls apart.

Maybe approaching relationships like a power struggle is at the root of your problem?

 

Simple fact is that the familial heirarchy is nonexistent anymore.

Times they are a-changing, not just "the women"!! There are a lot of families being created successfully without the traditional hierarchy but if you need to have that, I know there are still traditional women who also do. Maybe try church?

 

Thus I find myself in that exact situation and I haven't had a relationship last longer than 8 months. Why? Because the women I have met, be it good or bad choices, all of them, in the past 7 years, were not ready for a real relationship.

With YOU. It's highly possible that after they realized that you and they were not compatible, they found somebody who was and now they're happily married!!

 

I have proposed only a theory about why this has occured and nothing more.

You have consistent failures where relationships are concerned. There are a lot of people in relationships who claim to be happy (like me! :love:)! So … maybe could your situation have something more to do with you yourself rather than "the women"? Just a thought ...

[welshbambi]

ALL WOMAN THINK WE ARE IS A FREE RIDE TO THEM. ALL THEY WANT IS MEALS, CLOTHES AND MONEY!

 

I make my own money, I prefer to stay in and cook together once we know eachother well enough. I have enough clothes and if I need more, guess what? I make my own money, I buy my own.

 

I've had my heart stamped on this year so yes, I am going to be a bit more cautious when dating. I am mindful not to treat a date like a job interview, but unfortunately the current technology makes it VERY easy for men and women to cheat and window shop. So I need to feel that the character of the person is solid and unfortunately, taking time to converse and asking questions about them and their life is an important part of the getting-to-know-you process.

 

And you know what? I am upfront about that. If I have been chatting online with someone and it looks like we are heading for a date, I am upfront about my experience and what it has taught me, and that if taking things slow and being a bit old fashioned is not for them, they can back out now.

 

So far, no one has rebuffed me because of that. And if they did well then that's fine. I don't want to be made to be feel bad for doing what's right for me, but neither do I expect a guy to match my needs if that's not for him. That;'s the not the guy I want anyway and let's not waste eachother's time.

 

Because here's the thing. I'm in this for a long time, not a good time. I don't do casual sex with people I am not genuinely interested in or attracted to. That doesn't happen overnight.

[toscaroscura]

 

ALL WOMAN THINK WE ARE IS A FREE RIDE TO THEM. ALL THEY WANT IS MEALS, CLOTHES AND MONEY!

 

I simply cannot imagine why you had any trouble dating this year with that stellar mindset, good sir.

 

:bunny:

[Detectingfreak]

I make my own money, I prefer to stay in and cook together once we know eachother well enough. I have enough clothes and if I need more, guess what? I make my own money, I buy my own.

 

I've had my heart stamped on this year so yes, I am going to be a bit more cautious when dating. I am mindful not to treat a date like a job interview, but unfortunately the current technology makes it VERY easy for men and women to cheat and window shop. So I need to feel that the character of the person is solid and unfortunately, taking time to converse and asking questions about them and their life is an important part of the getting-to-know-you process.

 

And you know what? I am upfront about that. If I have been chatting online with someone and it looks like we are heading for a date, I am upfront about my experience and what it has taught me, and that if taking things slow and being a bit old fashioned is not for them, they can back out now.

 

So far, no one has rebuffed me because of that. And if they did well then that's fine. I don't want to be made to be feel bad for doing what's right for me, but neither do I expect a guy to match my needs if that's not for him. That;'s the not the guy I want anyway and let's not waste eachother's time.

 

Because here's the thing. I'm in this for a long time, not a good time. I don't do casual sex with people I am not genuinely interested in or attracted to. That doesn't happen overnight.

 

Most people who say that they are in this for the long haul don't mean it. I have had plenty of woman say that since my ex and none of them worked out. I stopped dating at number 7 and just am having fun. Actions speak louder than words women!

[toscaroscura]

Most people who say that they are in this for the long haul don't mean it. I have had plenty of woman say that since my ex and none of them worked out. I stopped dating at number 7 and just am having fun. Actions speak louder than words women!

 

A woman can be serious minded and in it for the long haul but decide she doesn't want that with you.

 

It doesn't mean she was lying.

[Trenton100]

I make my own money, I prefer to stay in and cook together once we know eachother well enough. I have enough clothes and if I need more, guess what? I make my own money, I buy my own.

 

I've had my heart stamped on this year so yes, I am going to be a bit more cautious when dating. I am mindful not to treat a date like a job interview, but unfortunately the current technology makes it VERY easy for men and women to cheat and window shop. So I need to feel that the character of the person is solid and unfortunately, taking time to converse and asking questions about them and their life is an important part of the getting-to-know-you process.

 

And you know what? I am upfront about that. If I have been chatting online with someone and it looks like we are heading for a date, I am upfront about my experience and what it has taught me, and that if taking things slow and being a bit old fashioned is not for them, they can back out now.

 

So far, no one has rebuffed me because of that. And if they did well then that's fine. I don't want to be made to be feel bad for doing what's right for me, but neither do I expect a guy to match my needs if that's not for him. That;'s the not the guy I want anyway and let's not waste eachother's time.

 

Because here's the thing. I'm in this for a long time, not a good time. I don't do casual sex with people I am not genuinely interested in or attracted to. That doesn't happen overnight.

 

You have no idea how many times I've read this as a profile on dating sites.

[preraph]

That's an insightful post.

 

I don't think it's just women who have changed from OLD, but OLD is changing everything, probably for the worse. And I do think women have changed, a big sea change, since the 60s when birth control became widespread, obviously. And your point about them being unable to have any spare time for anything but the kids at least partly due to some fathers being hands-off is true. Even when there's joint custody, the going back and forth and trying to communicate can be time consuming and draining. It's a bad situation. But it's no worse for the women than it was before birth control. In fact, it's better because they do have choices now. None of them are necessarily great choices, but it's something they didn't have before.

 

Men are coming along really slowly, but at least some of them are coming along nicely. My neighbor is an example of one who does most of the child duties plus the usual man duties and his wife is a doctor. His applecart isn't upset because of it, but most people's are because it's a radical change in roles. Most happy couples find something in between, a balance. But sadly, too few. You may or may not take comfort in knowing that they too have trouble finding time just for each other and are both overwhelmed.

 

Not all women feel they must have a man in their life. Those who have really great ones, the two I know, would be lost without them. I've unfortunately known many more who feel that in some ways, the man is like taking care of one more child, and more and more women are walking away from that, as they should do, because it's only adding stress and burden once it gets to that point and is a bad model for the children.

 

There's no ready answer. It takes a long time to gain a mother's trust as a man -- or it should before they let you near their kids. But any man who can come into that situation ready to really offer emotional support and real physical labor would probably eventually find a taker.

[Detectingfreak]

A woman can be serious minded and in it for the long haul but decide she doesn't want that with you.

 

It doesn't mean she was lying.

 

It does mean they are lying. Don't go on a first date with me if you don't feel a connection.

[toscaroscura]

It does mean they are lying. Don't go on a first date with me if you don't feel a connection.

 

Before a first date, you are essentially strangers. No one is obligated to trod down that path to commitment if they accept a first date. A first date is not a contract or promise of anything.

 

Plus, connection is fluid. You may feel a connection at first, but then incompatibilities or red flags come to light and the connection fizzles.

 

It is strange that you have had relationships and seem to be older than a teenager and you don't know this.

[Trenton100]

It's OLD. I just made a whole topic about it.

[Rydo]

Well this escalates quickly. And I'm still not sure what the problem is other than this isn't the 50's and women want to date who they want rather than the first guy to hit her over the head with his club and drag her back to his cave.

 

I'm a guy and I think OLD is pretty awesome:confused:

 

Ive done a lot of dating but even I wouldn't say that my sample size is good enough to tar 3.5 billion women with the same brush.

[Rydo]

Things have definitely changed. I'm not sure if it'd just OLD or a combination of OLD and social media in general, since most social media works just as well. As an example, I have a female friend who is newly single. When she is bored, she will post on Facebook that she wants to see a movie or something. She will then field replies from various men offering to take her out. I know her very well, and she is the type that lives her life around her kids. Her last LTR ended because she was too busy with them to make enough time for her man. No matter, just post online that she's bored and she gets a new date.

 

That says more about how pathetic the men she has on facebook than it does about women.

[Danda]

This is probably gonna sound harsh but I think a big underlying factor is that for so long there have been assumptions about what women want but nobody really knew for sure because women didn't have much choice. Now women in some countries have quite a bit of choice and for the first time in human history we're finding out via legit experiment that women are actually quite diverse and some of their desires (or lack thereof) are apparently shocking to some people.

 

I mean it wasn't that long ago that if a woman DID have "daddy issues" and/or wasn't really happy in her marriage, she just drugged up on hardcore prescriptions and nobody ever acknowledged her experience in life. Nowadays she can still drug up on pills if she chooses, but she can also, you know, refuse to marry people, leave a marriage, go to therapy, not date at all, date lots of people, or simply just be honest about what she thinks and feels.

 

So now that women aren't forced to settle down quickly and pretend to like it if they don't, honestly it seems like we're finding out more and more than men actually have a much greater need for a mate than women (generally speaking, special exceptions aside). I don't know how else to explain the almost insane imbalance in male/female ratios when it comes to online pursuit. I think it's always just been assumed that women want that more than med do, because women for so long needed it more, in a literal way, than med did.

 

Now a woman will only get with you if she wants to. And I think that just throws a lot of men for a total loop. Again I know it sounds harsh but it's my honest perception.

 

The other side of the coin is that it's probably never been easier for men to just get laid without having to commit, for multiple reasons, which makes finding a committed LTR or marriage much harder for women. So just as men can no longer rely on being "providers" to just about guarantee them a woman, no longer can women rely on simply looking good enough to just about guarantee a man. If he's not actually in love with us or doesn't have a PD type that can't handle being alone, then chances are it's going to be a fling at best.

 

But this is the reality of well.. reality. When people can actually choose and be honest, things get crazy. But it's a beautiful type of madness. It's truth, it's real, in all of its chaotic, gorgeous glory. Not something to be feared.

 

IMO

Edited December 30, 2014 by Danda

[LookAtThisPOst]

Well this escalates quickly. And I'm still not sure what the problem is other than this isn't the 50's and women want to date who they want rather than the first guy to hit her over the head with his club and drag her back to his cave.

 

Well, in the 40's / 50's it kind of happened like that, but pass on the club...lol... I recall American soldiers of WWII who would be at the USO hall pointing out women they planned on marrying.

 

They'd say to their friend, "See that woman right there, that's the man I plan on marrying" and sure enough, he married her.

 

Women back then rarely relationship hopped and didn't go through too many men to get to their future husband. They weren't much for cherry pickin'.

[Rydo]

Well, in the 40's / 50's it kind of happened like that, but pass on the club...lol... I recall American soldiers of WWII who would be at the USO hall pointing out women they planned on marrying.

 

They'd say to their friend, "See that woman right there, that's the man I plan on marrying" and sure enough, he married her.

 

Women back then rarely relationship hopped and didn't go through too many men to get to their future husband. They weren't much for cherry pickin'.

 

That's because if they tried to be picky they would get a slap... I'm glad I live now and not then.

[LookAtThisPOst]

That's because if they tried to be picky they would get a slap... I'm glad I live now and not then.

 

"Get a slap"? You lost me.

[Rydo]

"Get a slap"? You lost me.

 

Haven't you seen any old movies where a hysterical woman gets slapped by a man to calm her down? It was a joke of that nature... Ruined by explanation now

[Detectingfreak]

Its also 20 times harder for people with allergies and medical issues. I have a milk allergy and as soon as woman find that out they run for the hills. even if you accept them for all their little issues. They are too bitter and stuck up to accept you for yours. I am thankful to have had a two year relationship with a girl i known from high school and already had sex. Never dating again with so many bratty judgemental woman out there who think they can get whoever they want when men cant get the woman they want.

Edited December 30, 2014 by Detectingfreak

[Rydo]

Its also 20 times harder for people with allergies and medical issues. I have a milk allergy and as soon as woman find that out they run for the hills. even if you accept them for all their little issues. They are too bitter and stuck up to accept you for yours. I am thankful to have had a two year relationship with a girl i known from high school and already had sex. Never dating again with so many bratty judgemental woman out there who think they can get whoever they want when men cant get the woman they want.

 

How dare those women you want not want you back!!!

[losangelena]

Men who are healthy, attractive, good careers and who are happy are very hard to find. Thus I find myself in that exact situation and I haven't had a relationship last longer than 8 months. Why? Because the women I have met, be it good or bad choices, all of them, in the past 7 years, were not ready for a real relationship. I have proposed only a theory about why this has occured and nothing more.

 

Then why don't you limit your screed to the women you've dated, rather than apply this theory to half the human population? Christ on a cracker.

[littleblackheart]

Dating online is the worst thing you could do if you were really genuine about finding a true connection. The sheer number of random people you have to screen on superficial details should be enough to put anyone off.

 

 

There are actual real human beings all around you, made of the same stuff as you, that you can get to know without the weight of analysing every bit of their personality to see if they match you idea of a romantic relationship.

 

 

We are all wearing our scars, some more heavily than others: with age and (often bad) experience one gets to see it takes time and an open mind to get to truly know and appreciate someone's heart and open yours to them, and this isn't something screening more than one person at a time on the basis of their height or the type of sport they do is going to help with.

 

 

If you're not happy about dating online, then don't. Open your eyes and heart to the people around you, focus on making genuine connections (romantic or not) and hope for the best.

[elaine567]

This is probably gonna sound harsh but I think a big underlying factor is that for so long there have been assumptions about what women want but nobody really knew for sure because women didn't have much choice. Now women in some countries have quite a bit of choice and for the first time in human history we're finding out via legit experiment that women are actually quite diverse and some of their desires (or lack thereof) are apparently shocking to some people.

 

I mean it wasn't that long ago that if a woman DID have "daddy issues" and/or wasn't really happy in her marriage, she just drugged up on hardcore prescriptions and nobody ever acknowledged her experience in life. Nowadays she can still drug up on pills if she chooses, but she can also, you know, refuse to marry people, leave a marriage, go to therapy, not date at all, date lots of people, or simply just be honest about what she thinks and feels.

 

So now that women aren't forced to settle down quickly and pretend to like it if they don't, honestly it seems like we're finding out more and more than men actually have a much greater need for a mate than women (generally speaking, special exceptions aside). I don't know how else to explain the almost insane imbalance in male/female ratios when it comes to online pursuit. I think it's always just been assumed that women want that more than med do, because women for so long needed it more, in a literal way, than med did.

 

Now a woman will only get with you if she wants to. And I think that just throws a lot of men for a total loop. Again I know it sounds harsh but it's my honest perception.

 

This ^^^^^ - excellent post!

 

Instead of swooning at the mere mention of a date, a relationship or a proposal, women are now saying "Wait a minute what are YOU actually going to bring to my party?"

For some men they have no real answer, as they were brought up to believe they snapped their fingers saying "Jump" and the little woman said "How high?".

 

So in reaction to the new woman who knows her own mind, it appears some men are spending time trying to be PUAs, players and "alpha" men in the hope of snaring a woman.

However real intelligent women who want relationships are now seeing past that bullsh*t, and those men are left with superficial women who just want laid or who are none to bright or who are naive, or who just want money or who just want to trap a man or worst of all, who are crazy and make a man's life hell.

[denise_xo]

This is probably gonna sound harsh but I think a big underlying factor is that for so long there have been assumptions about what women want but nobody really knew for sure because women didn't have much choice. Now women in some countries have quite a bit of choice and for the first time in human history we're finding out via legit experiment that women are actually quite diverse and some of their desires (or lack thereof) are apparently shocking to some people.

 

This.

 

Historically, women AND men have married because

-it was a transaction between different families

-women weren't financially or politically independent

-it was the only way to get regular, legitimate sex

-it was the only way to exist in society and be socially respectable.

 

None of that applies anymore in contemporary western societies. Clearly, that changes the rules of the game, and introduce a whole lot of variety in the criteria that make people stay together, or quit. So, what incentives do we really have to get married today? No one's going to marry if they don't see a value added. Also, the whole concept of a marriage based on love is very recent, and, considering divorce stats, isn't working out that well ("I'm not in love with him/her anymore").

[Got it]

That's an insightful post.

 

I don't think it's just women who have changed from OLD, but OLD is changing everything, probably for the worse. And I do think women have changed, a big sea change, since the 60s when birth control became widespread, obviously. And your point about them being unable to have any spare time for anything but the kids at least partly due to some fathers being hands-off is true. Even when there's joint custody, the going back and forth and trying to communicate can be time consuming and draining. It's a bad situation. But it's no worse for the women than it was before birth control. In fact, it's better because they do have choices now. None of them are necessarily great choices, but it's something they didn't have before.

 

Men are coming along really slowly, but at least some of them are coming along nicely. My neighbor is an example of one who does most of the child duties plus the usual man duties and his wife is a doctor. His applecart isn't upset because of it, but most people's are because it's a radical change in roles. Most happy couples find something in between, a balance. But sadly, too few. You may or may not take comfort in knowing that they too have trouble finding time just for each other and are both overwhelmed.

 

Not all women feel they must have a man in their life. Those who have really great ones, the two I know, would be lost without them. I've unfortunately known many more who feel that in some ways, the man is like taking care of one more child, and more and more women are walking away from that, as they should do, because it's only adding stress and burden once it gets to that point and is a bad model for the children.

 

There's no ready answer. It takes a long time to gain a mother's trust as a man -- or it should before they let you near their kids. But any man who can come into that situation ready to really offer emotional support and real physical labor would probably eventually find a taker.

 

I agree with this. Most of the single women in my circle are financially independent and there is less need for a man. So with a full life in other areas there is definitely less compromising on idiosyncrasies from both sides. The biggest complaint is the unreasonable emotional baggage/needs that male suitors express/exhibit. They just don't have a need/desire to jump through the hoops that past decades may have forced.

 

But I can't speak to OLD, I have very little experience with it and actually most people I know don't use it or only lightly. They use matchmaking services, friends/family, etc. (we are all in our 30's and early 40's).