Something has Changed in the Women

[autumnnight]

It does mean they are lying. Don't go on a first date with me if you don't feel a connection.

 

I think this is the problem that OLD and maybe the internet in general has created.

 

When I was dating the first time around (in the 1980's), the first date was when you first got to know someone. The second date you sort of explored the spark. You might date a month or two before it was a "big relationship" because you were getting to know each other face to face. Who the heck knows if someone is "the one" before they even go on a first date? This is not a video game. Real relationships are not instant gratification. They take work and exploring.

 

We live in a age where we think we can completely size someone up based on what we see and read on a screen, and we think we can say anything we want to people while hiding behind that screen. There is no more social grace, very little emotional intelligence. People play WoW in their basements until they are 30 and then are surprised when they can't bag a hottie by acting like a horny Sheldon Cooper. Women spout all the misandrist stuff they read on tumblr and put notches in their bedposts as a sign of sexual liberation and wonder why a really good guy doesn't want to bring them home to Mom.

 

Don't get me wrong. I love my laptop. But we have raised a generation who doesn't know how to BE people in a lot of ways, much less interact with them.

[Rommex]

I think this is the problem that OLD and maybe the internet in general has created.

 

When I was dating the first time around (in the 1980's), the first date was when you first got to know someone. The second date you sort of explored the spark. You might date a month or two before it was a "big relationship" because you were getting to know each other face to face. Who the heck knows if someone is "the one" before they even go on a first date? This is not a video game. Real relationships are not instant gratification. They take work and exploring.

 

We live in a age where we think we can completely size someone up based on what we see and read on a screen, and we think we can say anything we want to people while hiding behind that screen. There is no more social grace, very little emotional intelligence. People play WoW in their basements until they are 30 and then are surprised when they can't bag a hottie by acting like a horny Sheldon Cooper. Women spout all the misandrist stuff they read on tumblr and put notches in their bedposts as a sign of sexual liberation and wonder why a really good guy doesn't want to bring them home to Mom.

 

Don't get me wrong. I love my laptop. But we have raised a generation who doesn't know how to BE people in a lot of ways, much less interact with them.

Now she expects the spark within a few minutes or she gets bored and wants out of the coffee shop as fast as she can get and she'll make up any excuse to get out. Asking her for permission to kiss is fatal to a date, yet not kissing her when she wants it is also fatal to the date. So is a kiss that doesn't blow her away. Good guys are now branded as fakes and creeps. A guy who doesn't demand sex almost immediately is accused of having an slteriot motive and not being manly. On a date she mainly does teo things which are complain about her exes and ask difficult gotcha questions, they aren't fun. Yet she wants to be entertained.

 

Try and be a person and you'll be called a creep but be a smooth talking creep who tells her what she wants to hear and knows how the game works and the world is his.

[Rommex]

Dating online is the worst thing you could do if you were really genuine about finding a true connection. The sheer number of random people you have to screen on superficial details should be enough to put anyone off.

 

 

There are actual real human beings all around you, made of the same stuff as you, that you can get to know without the weight of analysing every bit of their personality to see if they match you idea of a romantic relationship.

 

 

We are all wearing our scars, some more heavily than others: with age and (often bad) experience one gets to see it takes time and an open mind to get to truly know and appreciate someone's heart and open yours to them, and this isn't something screening more than one person at a time on the basis of their height or the type of sport they do is going to help with.

 

 

If you're not happy about dating online, then don't. Open your eyes and heart to the people around you, focus on making genuine connections (romantic or not) and hope for the best.

 

Why would someone resport to online? Because all the people around them don't want you even saying hi to them.

[littleblackheart]

This is probably gonna sound harsh but I think a big underlying factor is that for so long there have been assumptions about what women want but nobody really knew for sure because women didn't have much choice. Now women in some countries have quite a bit of choice and for the first time in human history we're finding out via legit experiment that women are actually quite diverse and some of their desires (or lack thereof) are apparently shocking to some people.

 

I mean it wasn't that long ago that if a woman DID have "daddy issues" and/or wasn't really happy in her marriage, she just drugged up on hardcore prescriptions and nobody ever acknowledged her experience in life. Nowadays she can still drug up on pills if she chooses, but she can also, you know, refuse to marry people, leave a marriage, go to therapy, not date at all, date lots of people, or simply just be honest about what she thinks and feels.

 

So now that women aren't forced to settle down quickly and pretend to like it if they don't, honestly it seems like we're finding out more and more than men actually have a much greater need for a mate than women (generally speaking, special exceptions aside). I don't know how else to explain the almost insane imbalance in male/female ratios when it comes to online pursuit. I think it's always just been assumed that women want that more than med do, because women for so long needed it more, in a literal way, than med did.

 

Now a woman will only get with you if she wants to. And I think that just throws a lot of men for a total loop. Again I know it sounds harsh but it's my honest perception.

 

The other side of the coin is that it's probably never been easier for men to just get laid without having to commit, for multiple reasons, which makes finding a committed LTR or marriage much harder for women. So just as men can no longer rely on being "providers" to just about guarantee them a woman, no longer can women rely on simply looking good enough to just about guarantee a man. If he's not actually in love with us or doesn't have a PD type that can't handle being alone, then chances are it's going to be a fling at best.

 

But this is the reality of well.. reality. When people can actually choose and be honest, things get crazy. But it's a beautiful type of madness. It's truth, it's real, in all of its chaotic, gorgeous glory. Not something to be feared.

 

IMO

 

Part of it is recent societal evolution maybe but emotionally, we haven't really changed all that much - literature and poetry dating back centuries from all continents have 'true love' and how to find it, and 'love lost' and its consequences as their underlying or main theme.

 

 

Until recently, people talked less to a fewer number of people but they talked true to people who genuinely cared. Now people talk more to more people, but not all of it true.

 

 

Finding a connection, nurturing it and seeing it grow has always been difficult, now no more than before. It's just that it's now been sold as a number game (that's what OLD is): it's not a game, and it's only ever been about one number - the one person you want to share your whole with. To me anyway.

[littleblackheart]

Why would someone resport to online? Because all the people around them don't want you even saying hi to them.

 

 

That's what the perception is, maybe. Everyone is dying to say hi to everyone else - I do that all the time, because I don't expect anything from it. Try it, it can change your day

[autumnnight]

I think there are problems with expectations/entitlement too. Think about it. You show up to soccer practice, you get a trophy. You poop in the potty, you get a cookie. You get an A, dad gives you 20 bucks. You turn in crappy sloppy work, you still get a gold star at the top of your paper. You don't like your grades? You get Mommy or Daddy to yell at the teacher.

 

Of course when these kids grow up they are going to think: Hey, I was nice to them, of course they should want to sleep with me.

 

Instant gratification. Entitlement. They owe me. Me me me me me.

 

THAT is the problem.

[hotpotato]

Now she expects the spark within a few minutes or she gets bored and wants out of the coffee shop as fast as she can get and she'll make up any excuse to get out. Asking her for permission to kiss is fatal to a date, yet not kissing her when she wants it is also fatal to the date. So is a kiss that doesn't blow her away. Good guys are now branded as fakes and creeps. A guy who doesn't demand sex almost immediately is accused of having an slteriot motive and not being manly. On a date she mainly does teo things which are complain about her exes and ask difficult gotcha questions, they aren't fun. Yet she wants to be entertained.

 

Try and be a person and you'll be called a creep but be a smooth talking creep who tells her what she wants to hear and knows how the game works and the world is his.

 

I personally have never faulted a man for not trying get in my pants asap. For me its a turn off, and I think men should stop advising each other to do so if they want a real relationship.

 

Trying to bed a woman doesnt make someone manly.

 

Some men have a lot of masculine energy. Having sex does not add to or subtract from that. A true manly man just 'is.'

 

Also, many so called nice guys arent nice at all. Just read some threads on ls... Its usually, "That stupid beeyotch screwed him and not me cuz im an effin nice guy ." Is that nice?

[CALOVELY]

You get what you give. There is plenty of attitude on this thread and very easily picked up on. If women are not responding to you, look within.

[Frank2thepoint]

So then I stop and think to myself "What was the point of signing up to begin with?"

 

I've already decided that I'm done with OLD. I hope it works out with her but if not, no way in hell I'm signing back up to any of those sites.

 

Don't you just love it? A guy goes on a date and she rants about her horrible exes. He tries to gently change the subject to no avail. She tells him that she just wants to meet someone normal. Five minutes later she abruptly has to go because she left her clothers in the dryer. She says she had a good time. He calls her the next day. No answer, leaves message, call no returned. She goes out with girlfriends, complains that all guys are evil, mentions that her date creeped her out because he was too nice and not manly.

 

It does mean they are lying. Don't go on a first date with me if you don't feel a connection.

 

Plus, connection is fluid. You may feel a connection at first, but then incompatibilities or red flags come to light and the connection fizzles.

 

It's great that women have choice. I wouldn't want a woman to be with me if she doesn't feel we are compatible. There is no point in both of us being miserable. But you are forgetting that as a man you also have a choice. You just have to exert discipline in avoiding the bad apples. As toscaroscura mentioned, connection is fluid. There were plenty of women I was initially attracted to (not just physically), then I got to know them and found them to be very shallow, poor personality, or simply not compatible. One of my pet peeves is a woman that doesn't smile. It's a turn off for me. There are women with the "bitchy resting face" that smile. Others can't produce a smile even at a funny joke.

 

Now back to avoiding the bad apples. If you can't beat them, join them. This means be as picky or critical as some of the women you encountered or dated. It's about adapting. Here are some examples. I usually give a woman 24 hours to respond to my message. If it goes beyond that, I cut her off. If 24 hours is too much leniency for you, then make it a 12 hour limit. Have some personal standards and stick to it no matter what. Are you encounter women that flake on you or give you the typical and dreaded evasive message of "I'm busy"? Don't encourage it by ask her when is she available. Just tell her you don't have time for frivolous behavior, and cut her off. Who cares if she gets defensive after that, attempting to give you some excuse, which may or may not be true. You just cut her off. Stick to your decision.

 

Another good dynamic is encouraging the woman to interact. You go a first date and a have a good time. Don't take the lead by messaging her later that evening or the next day that you had a great time with her. Give her a chance to initiate. Remember, you already initiated by asking her out and planning the date. It's like tennis. You served, now she has to return. If she doesn't even manage to muster a simple "Thanks for the date", then cut her off. Keep on trucking.

 

The point is, even if you spend all your free time jerking off to porn between dates, have some personal standards, and stick to them like glue. Don't waver from them for a pretty face, don't falter from them for a sweet compliment. Don't encourage bad behavior. Most importantly, stay positive. Always look for the blessings in disguise. If a woman doesn't return your call, flakes on a date, or whatever, it's because she doesn't have her sh*t together, and she would have drove you crazy with her antics.

[BlueIris]

Geeze, this thread has so many interesting insights. I often get frustrated by the “women are this” and “men are that” threads because they devolve into tantrums and mudslinging, or present narrow rules and tactics to get something. But this one has been different.

 

My thoughts for OP are just to check your stereotypes and negative conclusions about other people and to instead recognize and set aside your own assumptions so you can be open to learning about and understanding people as individuals. Imposing our beliefs about what someone else thinks or feels, instead of being open to how he or she actually thinks and feels, usually drives them away.

[William]

It appears our burgers hydra showed up in this thread and we didn't catch them until their posts got wound up in discussion. Hence we'll leave things as they are and request that members refrain from quoting and responding to posts from member Rommex upthread. Normally, we *do not* ever mention banned members publicly but this one is well on their way to a thousand usernames so it doesn't really matter. Sorry for the intrusion and please continue the discussion of the topic. Thanks!

[Robert Z]

I have read about half of this thread and want to read the rest. But one point kept coming to mind about how things have changed.

 

 

I was telling my sb how I met my first fiancée at a gas station. I looked over, saw this gorgeous young woman getting gas, and struck up a conversation. By the time our tanks were full I had a date. My sb was shocked that any woman would agree to see some guy she met at a gas station. She said that women just don't do things like that. And keep in mind that my sb worked as an escort for a time. She felt safer with Johns than some guy she meets at her Yoga class because the Johns were all screened.

 

 

When I took out this 30 year old a few years ago, she was telling me that on her first date with a guy - a picnic in a public park - he suddenly broke out a pair of hand cuffs and slapped them on her. It completely freaked her out.

 

 

These are just two examples that come to mind but women definitely seem to be far more cautious compared to the days before I got married. I don't know if it is really so bad or not. But you would think that women are constantly running from sexual predators and fending off rape attacks. My sb is constantly warning me that I am far too open and friendly; that people don't know how to take that. And I have noticed that women often seem guarded even if I just say hello. It's as if people don't know how to be friendly and courteous any more. Hello doesn't mean will you fck me. It means hello.

Edited December 30, 2014 by Robert Z

[Robert Z]

The 30 year old was interesting. On our third date, we were sitting and having dinner. I guess the third date thing had her feeling pressured to have sex because out of the blue, she suddenly informed me that if I want to have sex with her, I am going to have to earn it! I said "REALLY?" and got up and left.

 

 

Not what you say to a man who went ten years without sex. But more than that, what nerve!!! Jeez. I couldn't believe a woman would say that. And I had been nothing but a perfect gentleman.

[Rejected Rosebud]

It does mean they are lying. Don't go on a first date with me if you don't feel a connection.

Do you think that if a woman goes on a first date (or dates you for 6 months for that matter) with you and decides not to go further with you that means that there is something wrong with her character?? Seriously if you think you are single because there is something the matter with "the women" I think you will be single for a long time until maybe you get an adjusted perspective!

The more I read around here the more confirmed I am in my belief that the answer to almost everybody's problem is to look within, me included!

[elaine567]

The 30 year old was interesting. On our third date, we were sitting and having dinner. I guess the third date thing had her feeling pressured to have sex because out of the blue, she suddenly informed me that if I want to have sex with her, I am going to have to earn it! I said "REALLY?" and got up and left.

 

 

Not what you say to a man who went ten years without sex. But more than that, what nerve!!! Jeez. I couldn't believe a woman would say that. And I had been nothing but a perfect gentleman.

 

Was that not just a bit of teasing and a joke on her part...?

[Woggle]

As guys we just can't win with some women so stop trying. Nobody has ever gotten anywhere by trying to placate people who will always find fault no matter what you do. I am not saying all women are like this but with some a man will always be in the doghouse. I say instead of trying to get out of doghouse add some new additions on to it and fix up the place until it is even better than the house she kicked you out of it.

 

I just do what I want instead of trying to conform to society's ever changing rules for men and it has suited me well and women actually seem to respect a man who won't castrate himself in order to appease the small but very vocal minority who want that from men. Strength and sticking your principles are more attractive than pandering.

[Robert Z]

Was that not just a bit of teasing and a joke on her part...?

 

No, she was dead serious. There was no doubt about it.

 

 

I think that was my last regular date. Been seeing escorts and my SB ever since. I am interested in regular dating but I'm not going to tolerate that sort of attitude.

Edited December 30, 2014 by Robert Z

[elaine567]

No, she was dead serious. There was no doubt about it.

 

I think that was my last regular date. Been seeing escorts and my SB ever since. I am interested in regular dating but I'm not going to tolerate that sort of attitude.

 

How were you supposed to earn it?

[Robert Z]

How were you supposed to earn it?

 

 

I didn't care to find out. I just got up and left.

 

 

I did pay the bill.

[Got it]

I didn't care to find out. I just got up and left.

 

 

I did pay the bill.

 

I had one first date in my brief stint on OLD. The whole time the guy complained about his ex wife, griped about everything under the sun, etc. So at the end, shook his hand and bade him farewell.

 

I paid for the bill as well. Wrapping up those loose ends!

 

Some people wonder why they don't get past a first date.

[littleblackheart]

But you would think that women are constantly running from sexual predators and fending off rape attacks. My sb is constantly warning me that I am far too open and friendly; that people don't know how to take that. And I have noticed that women often seem guarded even if I just say hello. It's as if people don't know how to be friendly and courteous any more. Hello doesn't mean will you fck me. It means hello.

 

That's a fair point. Every risk seems to be exaggerated to ridiculous extremes, I've seen it with people who worry and over-analyse every gesture and reaction, as if it everyone else had bad motives at worst or a hidden agenda at best - that's got to be exhausting.

 

 

I don't know what an sb is but being open and friendly are great qualities to be had, and saying hello to strangers on the street is the easiest way to brighten their day and yours. That's a warning I wouldn't heed!

 

 

Crash courses on back to basics wouldn't go amiss sometimes, and that's including re-evaluating the importance of 'dating' online or elsewhere, in my very humble opinion.

[ascendotum]

Now back to avoiding the bad apples. If you can't beat them, join them. This means be as picky or critical as some of the women you encountered or dated. It's about adapting. Here are some examples. I usually give a woman 24 hours to respond to my message. If it goes beyond that, I cut her off. If 24 hours is too much leniency for you, then make it a 12 hour limit. Have some personal standards and stick to it no matter what. Are you encounter women that flake on you or give you the typical and dreaded evasive message of "I'm busy"? Don't encourage it by ask her when is she available. Just tell her you don't have time for frivolous behavior, and cut her off. Who cares if she gets defensive after that, attempting to give you some excuse, which may or may not be true. You just cut her off. Stick to your decision.

 

I totally agree with you. The thing that I have found as well as my friends and observing female friends over the years is that many people tend to be as shallow/flakey as their options allow. Not all but lots. So the women that exhibit flakey disrespectful behavior generally are the more attractive ones...the more attractive ones are the ones guys get more excited about early on and want to date them or hope to have them as a gf. They are more vested in getting a good outcome so they are more inclined to try jump over crap from the woman to hopefully get rewarded with their perseverance. Like women who get 'amazzzing chemistry' with players and douchebag bag guys and let their emotions over ride their better judgement to get the outcome they want.

 

It can be hard for many guys (and women) especially when they are younger (less baggage & more enthusiastic and sexier prospects) to say F.O. and walk. On the flip side the more desirable you are as a man the easier it is to walk away from BS knowing you have plenty of hot options. Women know this and are less likely to pull the same stunts, and are much more inclined to let you know they are a sure thing.

[Frank2thepoint]

I totally agree with you. The thing that I have found as well as my friends and observing female friends over the years is that many people tend to be as shallow/flakey as their options allow. Not all but lots. So the women that exhibit flakey disrespectful behavior generally are the more attractive ones...the more attractive ones are the ones guys get more excited about early on and want to date them or hope to have them as a gf. They are more vested in getting a good outcome so they are more inclined to try jump over crap from the woman to hopefully get rewarded with their perseverance. Like women who get 'amazzzing chemistry' with players and douchebag bag guys and let their emotions over ride their better judgement to get the outcome they want.

 

It can be hard for many guys (and women) especially when they are younger (less baggage & more enthusiastic and sexier prospects) to say F.O. and walk. On the flip side the more desirable you are as a man the easier it is to walk away from BS knowing you have plenty of hot options. Women know this and are less likely to pull the same stunts, and are much more inclined to let you know they are a sure thing.

 

Yeah hotter does not mean better. Many attractive people know very well they are desired, so they have options. They often can get away with poor behavior because there will always be people fawning for them. I understand people will still pursue gorgeous people, because they are seen as a prize. It's a huge ego boost to attain such an achievement. But often the outcome is fraught with problems. There will always be suitors vying for the person's attention. Thankfully I outgrew that desire, and leave the attractive people to be pursued by the less wise. There are plenty of entertainers that feed the attractive person's vanity and fickle nature, and I don't have a need to be part of it.

[DukeNukem47]

I agree that the world is changing fast, largely due to social engineering. Part of the globalists' (1%) agenda is population control, and what better way to achieve that end than to wear down the notion of family? The core of any strong, healthy society are strong, healthy families - not more and more isolation.

 

In spite of the attack on our humanity from every front, some of us (like me) are consciously resisting the decline. I'm looking for good, old-fashioned love with a man I can create a family with. But I'm just a drop of water in a tidal wave - hopefully more people will keep waking up from all the destructive programming.

 

Birth rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

I actually agree with you here.

 

However, my goal is to actually become part of that 1% (which is something that I'm constantly working towards and have a solid plan on how to get there). Once I reach my goal, I plan on having children through surrogacy and hiring a live-in nanny.

 

I have a very deep-seeded distrust of women. But if I'm technically the sole parent, they can't run off with my children and break up the family.

[Rejected Rosebud]

Was that not just a bit of teasing and a joke on her part...?

She may have seriously dodged a bullet!