Any other members bewildered or disillusioned...?

[evanescentworld]

I am personally finding a lot of difficulty understanding this widespread hesitation in using the 'L' word - It seems to be a 'guy' thing more than a 'gal' thing....

 

Which might in turn, indicate a reluctance to commit....

 

....And at the same time, it seems relationships last less time, there is more infidelity and the relationships seem shorter, and I'm currently seeing a huge disparity in sex drives.

 

What the hell is happening to 'solid' dating???

[losangelena]

I'm surprised no one's blamed OLD yet, lol.

 

Has there never not been a hesitancy to commit? The archetype of the "swinging bachelor" has been around for quite a few decades, no?

 

Someone touched upon this in a different thread, but by and large, I think the world of dating has changed because social mores are changing. Birth control exists; women no longer need the financial stability a man can provide through marriage, which is the foundation I'm assuming you mean by "solid dating" was built on. People have many more options these days on how to live their lives. Not everyone chooses the 2.5 kids and the white picket fence anymore.

[gaius]

Seems to work better when I don't use the L word. =/

 

Talking to a few older people in the honest way I do it seems relationships were often just as messed up back then as they are now. Just were less honest about it and stuck it out more.

[Robert Z]

I am personally finding a lot of difficulty understanding this widespread hesitation in using the 'L' word - It seems to be a 'guy' thing more than a 'gal' thing....

 

 

I have noticed that men are often far more romantic than women. And talking about being more crazy in love than I ever thought possible brings an onslaught of posts telling me that I'm not! In fact, just being in love seems to offend people. And god knows, no one wants to hear about a man in love.

 

I get the feeling that women are looking at men's resume's more than their value as a person. Then there is shock at the idea of getting a sugar baby.

 

I really have no idea what women want from men anymore. My direct experience is that we are tools to be used - a means to an end.

 

 

==============

 

I was really struck by one member who said her idea of romance is her husband working in her garden for her. This is a theme I see time and time again. Love isn't a matter of feelings but "what he does for me".

 

I did a lot for my ex wife long after I stopped loving her. It was duty, not love.

Edited December 31, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Merge

[FitChick]

Some people show their love through service.

[CALOVELY]

Seems to work better when I don't use the L word. =/

 

Talking to a few older people in the honest way I do it seems relationships were often just as messed up back then as they are now. Just were less honest about it and stuck it out more.

 

We seem to have this utopian view that relationships in the past were better because there was less divorce. People stayed together because the social stigma that came with divorce was too great. Alcoholism was high, as was the use of "mommys little helper". It was far from perfect.

[Robert Z]

Some people show their love through service.

 

But that isn't love. That is service. That is slave labor. You can hire someone for that. Love is a matter of the heart.

 

 

To me, it is very much like men paying for sex. Who needs love? I can just buy it, right?

[Haydn]

I love my BH. (And that`s not the 8 pints talking).

[CALOVELY]

But that isn't love. That is service. That is slave labor. You can hire someone for that. Love is a matter of the heart.

 

 

To me, it is very much like men paying for sex. Who needs love? I can just buy it, right?

 

Many people have an "act of service" as their love language. It is how they feel loved. How is that different than someone who feels loved through words of affirmation or physical touch? If that is what she needs to feel loved and her husband does it for that reason, he is showing that he loves her.

[Robert Z]

Many people have an "act of service" as their love language. It is how they feel loved. How is that different than someone who feels loved through words of affirmation or physical touch? If that is what she needs to feel loved and her husband does it for that reason, he is showing that he loves her.

 

 

You are seriously arguing that there is no difference between fixing a car and showing affection?

[thefooloftheyear]

As it stands right now,from what I am observing...Men are too jaded and cynical and women are too idealistic and have unreasonably lofty expectations...Hence the disparity....Its easy to see why it wont work..

 

Why it is, ? I dunno....And not everyone suffers here, only the perpetual daters/lonely hearts...

 

TFY

[dichotomy]

I was hesitant to use it in most romantic relationships because for me it means something immense, rare, special, and is a commitment of sorts - it means I am "all in" with someone one. Its more than a feeling - its putting that persons needs and growth often ahead of my own. A willingness for extreme sacrifice. I have your back, and trust you have mine as well.

 

I am afraid not as man people share this view of love and its tossed around too much in dating and new relationships.

[Robert Z]

You are seriously arguing that there is no difference between fixing a car and showing affection?

 

Sorry, I tried to squeeze this in but was too late.

 

 

I might fix my neighbor's car but that doesn't mean I love her. So what's the difference? What I hear are women affirming is that "love is what you do for me" and now "how you feel about me".

[CALOVELY]

You are seriously arguing that there is no difference between fixing a car and showing affection?

 

I am not arguing anything. I am saying each person responds to their own love language. If hers is "acts of service", then him doing that is how she feels loved. More so than him buying her a gift or saying how great she is. She responds to acts of service.

[preraph]

I'm blaming it on OLD and women not "needing" a man as much, although mothers always need support on multiple fronts -- but being married in no way guarantees you'll get that support, which is one big reason women file for divorce.

[Robert Z]

I am not arguing anything. I am saying each person responds to their own love language. If hers is "acts of service", then him doing that is how she feels loved. More so than him buying her a gift or saying how great she is. She responds to acts of service.

 

 

I understand doing something for someone. But that isn't love. And far too many women seem to equate doing things with love. It seems to be an expectation and not a matter of appreciation. It has almost become the definition of love for many women.

 

 

Does it follow that if he doesn't work in the garden, he doesn't love her? That is true of feelings but not true of gardening.

 

 

And showing affection isn't telling someone how great they are either. That is talking.

[CALOVELY]

I understand doing something for someone. But that isn't love. And far too many women seem to equate doing things with love. It seems to be an expectation and not a matter of appreciation. It has almost become the definition of love for many women.

 

 

Does it follow that if he doesn't work in the garden, he doesn't love her? That is true of feelings but not true of gardening.

 

 

And showing affection isn't telling someone how great they are either. That is talking.

 

Have you read The Five Love Languages? In the book it discusses what people in relationships respond to and it is broken down in to groups. "Acts of Service" being one of them. For those people, they feel love from their partner because they do something for them. Be it garden or anything else. That is how they feel loved. Others have "Words of Affirmation" as their love language. They feel love when their partner gives them a compliment or says a nice thing to them. A partner shows their love to the other by doing the love language the other responds to. It is a great book for couples to read so each can understand what the other needs to feel loved. Mine is physical touch. I doubt you would fault me for wanting that. Everybody has their own love language and one is not more valid than the other.

[Danda]

Call me Wannabe Freud but I think it often boils down to how people experienced and perceived bonding as children.

 

I'm female but I have a hard time using the "L word" in a relationship. My parents never said it to each other and never said it to me first. The word itself was very rare to me growing up. My family in general was not affectionate at all, let alone verbally. The perception of love I developed is a more universal sort of feeling. I perceive that I feel love for other humans in general, more strongly in humans with whom I bond somehow. But if a guy tells me he "loves" me or is "in love" with me in the context of a romantic relationship I don't really understand what it means and it makes me uncomfortable. It almost feels treacherous like he's trying to manipulate me or something (even if that's not how he means it at all).

 

As far as commitment I sort of keep it off my radar completely, or at least to the best of my ability. There are no guarantees in life, and if someone told me they wanted to be with me for a "long time" or "forever" or whatever, I wouldn't believe them anyway and again would probably just perceive it as them being irrational or them trying to manipulate me.

 

It's interesting, too, because on one level I am self-aware that my perceptions have been heavily influenced by my experiences throughout my life, and yet on the other hand being self-aware of various emotions and responses doesn't stop them from happening.

 

Amidst all my flaws though I do value my integrity very highly and always try to protect it. Doesn't mean I'm 100% honest all the time and have perfect integrity, only that I try really hard with that as my goal. So when I combine my perceptions with my effort to be as honest as possible, it also translates into me not wanting to make promises or declarations, either. I don't want to wind up in a situation where I feel like I manipulated someone else.

[Robert Z]

Have you read The Five Love Languages? In the book it discusses what people in relationships respond to and it is broken down in to groups. "Acts of Service" being one of them. For those people, they feel love from their partner because they do something for them. Be it garden or anything else. That is how they feel loved. Others have "Words of Affirmation" as their love language. They feel love when their partner gives them a compliment or says a nice thing to them. A partner shows their love to the other by doing the love language the other responds to. It is a great book for couples to read so each can understand what the other needs to feel loved. Mine is physical touch. I doubt you would fault me for wanting that. Everybody has their own love language and one is not more valid than the other.

 

 

Well, I will take that to heart. I do see your point but with qualifications, and you just ruled out 80% of all potential relationships for me. And maybe that explains the divorce rate!

 

 

If a woman doesn't feel loved by the way I kiss her cheek, or the fact that I want to hold her hand, or by the way I make love to her, then I really don't care if she appreciates me hoeing the garden. I guess that is the heart of it. To me there are certain things that are irreversible. I might love you even if I won't work in the garden. But if you don't care how I really feel, then who cares how you feel?

Edited December 31, 2014 by Robert Z

[CALOVELY]

Well, I will take that to heart. I do see your point but with qualifications, and you just ruled out 80% of all potential relationships for me. And maybe that explains the divorce rate!

 

 

If a woman doesn't feel loved by the way I kiss her cheek, or the fact that I want to hold her hand, or by the way I make love to her, then I really don't care if she appreciates me hoeing the garden. I guess that is the heart of it. To me there are certain things that are irreversible. I might love you even if I won't work in the garden. But if you don't care how I really feel, then who cares how you feel?

 

Take a step back and think of it this way: Lets say your love language is physical touch. Your spouse knows this and does not touch you in any way that lets you know she loves you. How would you feel? Now, apply that to the woman on here. Her love language is acts of service. Lets say her husband knows that and rather than doing things for his wife that she would appreciate and feel loved by, he sits around doing nothing. How do you think she would feel? In turn, the person needs to find out what their partner responds to. Lets say word of affirmation in this example. What if she was to never say a kind word to him or let him know how much she appreciates what he does in the garden? He would feel used and angry. By her doing what his love language is, he feels loved. That is why it is so important to find out what your partners love language is.

 

None of that is to say that is the only way the person feels loved. It is just the way they feel love the most. For me, it is physical touch. Does that mean I only respond to physical touch and not a kind word or flowers or the lawn mowed? No. It just means that is what makes me feel the most loved.

 

Sorry for the long post and possible thread derailment, OP.

[Danda]

If a woman doesn't feel loved by the way I kiss her cheek, or the fact that I want to hold her hand, or by the way I make love to her, then I really don't care if she appreciates me hoeing the garden.

 

That's like saying that if you like sports and your friend likes astronomy, and you get them a basketball hoop instead of a telescope for their birthday, and they don't seem enthused, then that is their problem and **** them. Lol.

[CALOVELY]

That's like saying that if you like sports and your friend likes astronomy, and you get them a basketball hoop instead of a telescope for their birthday, and they don't seem enthused, then that is their problem and **** them. Lol.

 

That is precisely the problem with so many marriages. A person likes basketball, gets season tickets to the Knicks and sits front row. What their partner wanted was a telescope and time with them to look at the stars. But hey, they got these cool tickets for their spouse. The fact remains they did not fulfil their partners needs. I see a variation of this scenario happen often. Worse, I see the basketball lover get upset when the spouse does not appreciate the tickets.

[preraph]

I am personally finding a lot of difficulty understanding this widespread hesitation in using the 'L' word - It seems to be a 'guy' thing more than a 'gal' thing....

 

Which might in turn, indicate a reluctance to commit....

 

That's exactly what it is. I have found myself in that position as well, someone saying both the L word and the M word in one brief conversation and my not being ready to say it or commit. The only other possible reason for it would be embarrassment of expressing feelings, which is a bit of a red flag in itself!

[Gloria25]

Look, IMO, too many people just throwing around the ILY and have no idea what it means...

[Robert Z]

That's like saying that if you like sports and your friend likes astronomy, and you get them a basketball hoop instead of a telescope for their birthday, and they don't seem enthused, then that is their problem and **** them. Lol.

 

I guess many women really do want servants. No surprise really. That's what I've been saying all along.

 

Hire a gardener. I want woman who feels passion.

 

Also, what I see over the long run is men who are doing their duty and get very little in return. That show of love is expected and no longer has any real meaning. It is just slave labor.

 

Jeez, I can't get over this. I think all men should read this book. I sure will. I have never heard a better argument against marriage. That it is taken as being so matter of fact just floors me.

Edited January 1, 2015 by Robert Z