Any other members bewildered or disillusioned...?

[Weezy1973]

Would it help you to know I also trained as a Relationships counsellor?

 

So logically, wouldn't relationship counsellors be trained in dealing with problem relationships? That surely could make one biased towards thinking that there is a trend towards less commitment couldn't it? Along with taking one's "evidence" from internet forums dealing with relationship problems and one could mistakenly think that there is some kind of intense downward spiral and commitment and relationships are the victim.

 

You don't know everything, and neither do I.

We can only base our opinions on personal experience and perceptions (which I often say can frequently be 'deceptions').

 

I think we often do base our opinions on personal experience and perceptions (or deceptions!). And the mistake a lot of people make is thinking they can generalize their personal experiences and perceptions to the world at large (like you did with this thread for example). What the rational person would do is realize that their personal experiences and perceptions are extremely limited, and therefore they should seek objective evidence on the matter, which should weigh much more heavily on forming one's opinion than personal experience or perception.

 

Simply because you disagree with my views, doesn't make you right.

It doesn't make me right either, but I go by what I have experienced.

 

And I go by actual evidence and facts. Which does, in fact, make my opinion more right than yours. There's a difference between an opinion and an informed opinion.

 

For example, many men on this forum are convinced that somehow dating is a struggle for the average man. But it isn't. Most adult men are in relationships, so clearly dating isn't a struggle for the average man. When you actually look at the facts it can be enlightening.

 

Happy now?

 

Always!

[evanescentworld]

So logically, wouldn't relationship counsellors be trained in dealing with problem relationships?

No. I was also trained in pre-marriage "prevention" workshops.

That actually was an eye-opener, and I think they should be compulsory for all and any couples wishing to marry (as it stands, it's only a pre-requisite of religious/church marriages, I believe....)

 

That surely could make one biased towards thinking that there is a trend towards less commitment couldn't it? Along with taking one's "evidence" from internet forums dealing with relationship problems and one could mistakenly think that there is some kind of intense downward spiral and commitment and relationships are the victim.

I don't believe I 'mistakenly think' anything. I have seen a definite increasing trend towards such issues.

 

 

I think we often do base our opinions on personal experience and perceptions (or deceptions!).

Try 'always' not 'often'. There is absolutely nothing else we CAN base them on!

 

And the mistake a lot of people make is thinking they can generalize their personal experiences and perceptions to the world at large (like you did with this thread for example). What the rational person would do is realize that their personal experiences and perceptions are extremely limited, and therefore they should seek objective evidence on the matter, which should weigh much more heavily on forming one's opinion than personal experience or perception.

Which is why I created the thread.

I certainly didn't expect everyone to agree with me, so I put forward my view, and of course, others have come in with different views.

Isn't that the point....?

 

And I go by actual evidence and facts. Which does, in fact, make my opinion more right than yours. There's a difference between an opinion and an informed opinion.

Where are your evidence and facts based? Where is the data?

Upon what have you based your 'informed' opinion? And really, I'm asking. Can you provide links and calculable, evidential figures to prove your facts and evidence?

 

For example, many men on this forum are convinced that somehow dating is a struggle for the average man. But it isn't.

It is for them.

So for them, it's a fact.

You cannot disclaim a person's statement, based on their own experiences, as not being factual.

They're going by what they themselves have experienced, and it's confirmed by 'many men on this forum'. So naturally, they're proposing something generally factual.

For them.

 

 

Most adult men are in relationships, so clearly dating isn't a struggle for the average man. When you actually look at the facts it can be enlightening.

How long have they been in those relationships?

Are they monogamous/faithful?

Are they multi-dating or exclusive?

 

What facts are you looking at?

How are they 'enlightening'...? (As a Buddhist, you know, I'm very picky about that word....! )

[Weezy1973]

What facts are you looking at?

How are they 'enlightening'...? (As a Buddhist, you know, I'm very picky about that word....! )

 

Most in U.S. Want Marriage, but Its Importance Has Dropped

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/02/upshot/the-divorce-surge-is-over-but-the-myth-lives-on.html?_r=0&abt=0002&abg=1

 

Divorce rates drop across Canada - The Globe and Mail

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/sex/divorce/10622297/Marriage-stronger-than-for-a-generation-despite-increase-in-divorces.html

 

People want to get married. Divorce rates are down. Trend is for more commitment. The vast majority of adults are in committed, monogamous relationships.

[evanescentworld]

The first two articles are dated 2012.

The third puzzles me : they're measuring the rate of divorces from 2000 and saying the rates have dropped - but the marriages in the 70's and 80's have a higher rate....

so if we measure the marriages of the 2000, in 30 to 40 years' time - will the rates still have dropped?

I'm finding it difficult to understand whether it's a fair figure (I suffer from dyscalculia, numbers are not my strong point....)

 

The 4th article basically states that marriage is becoming increasingly unpopular, so I'm not sure what your point is there.....

[Weezy1973]

The first two articles are dated 2012.

 

And still valid a mere three years later.

 

The third puzzles me : they're measuring the rate of divorces from 2000 and saying the rates have dropped - but the marriages in the 70's and 80's have a higher rate....

so if we measure the marriages of the 2000, in 30 to 40 years' time - will the rates still have dropped?

I'm finding it difficult to understand whether it's a fair figure (I suffer from dyscalculia, numbers are not my strong point....)

 

So this might be our disconnect. When there are differing opinions I like to move to numbers (i.e. cold, hard, stats) to help form a position. If you avoid numbers, your opinions will not be based on the same thing, and will likely be more subjective than objective.

 

The third article shows that the rate of divorce is on the decline. The initial spike in divorce happened (30 to 40 years ago) because divorce was no longer illegal. Since that initial spike, divorce has been on a steady decline.

 

The 4th article basically states that marriage is becoming increasingly unpopular, so I'm not sure what your point is there.....

 

Marriage is seen as less important now because religion is playing less of a role in people's lives. Marriage is still incredibly popular overall (as the first poll attests to with a mere 5% of people not wanting to get married).

 

We're looking at trends in the general population. You're saying there is a trend for less commitment and marriage. The articles I found above took me literally 5 minutes to find and contains or refers to hard statistics.

 

Your opinion is based on your personal experience. Mine is based on objective statistics and facts. Which one is more valid?