Feel like the rug has been pulled out from under me

[ForgingAhead]

Hi All,

If this is in the wrong forum I apologize in advance, but I think this could be the right place.

 

Background:

Me: Single dad,42, 2 kids, 1 is full time with me the other with his mom several hours away driving. The mom, addict in recovery, not a whole year.

 

Current Partner: 36, 2 kids, full time, she lives upstairs from me.

 

 

My Story:

I have had been dealing with lots of court issues in regard to custody of my youngest child, and its stressful, and the communication/Co-Parenting with the mom was mercurial to put it mildly.

Recently approximately a month ago or less, the communication has been smooth, and good co-parenting, in which case I can get my kids passports so we can go visit family etc which requires permission of the mom, I finally have the co-parenting part to be much more peaceful and mature.

 

During this time my current gf had always lent her support, but got fed up with it. As the holidays approached I had asked her what are our plans as my boys will be with their mom and I assumed I would spend time with the gf and her family etc..

My gf was getting distant, and not communicating etc.. She got really pissed at me, was short with me etc.

On Christmas Eve, she said she tried to come downstairs the night before to talk to me, but I was not around.

I txt msgd her asking why didnt she let me know in advance, as I was at the grocery store buying some cards for mg gf's kids to put on their presents.

I asked her if she loved me by txt, no response... My fear had come true, I was going o spend Christmas alone, literally no one around, and I tried contacting friends but to no avail..

Now heres where things got weird, I actually txt msgd my boys mom and asked her for a favor, and if I can come up for the holidays.

She had her plans made already, and said I can come up to be with the boys.

I ended up eating Christmas dinner with complete strangers, and also with the guy my boys mom has an interest in..

 

I stayed at my boys moms house, and nothing happened, I was int he living room, and she was in her bedroom, or I stepped outside for a much needed smoke due o the stress I had with my current gf blowing me off for Christmas.

 

I really did not want to come back home to my place, and did not know where to go\stay, so I stayed for a few days and felt so uneasy just cause, its my boys mom, and the flashbacks of her previous addict behavior were coming back to me, and it was just uncomfortable for me, and was better than being at my real home, to be haunted by memories of when things were good with my gf and I.

 

So.... I get an email from my current gf saying she called but it went to voicemail, and apologizing for how she had behaved, it was unfair to me, and she was hurt cause and I quote "You asked if I love you, and I have a lot of love for you but couldn't compete for where your heart was/is".

 

I was devastated as I had always told my gf that it's been over for a few years between the boys mom and I, no going back.. However my boys mom would pursue me with meaningless txts such as "I miss you" or whatever... I never reciprocated and never responded either.

 

My gf had asked me to let her know when my ex would text me, and I said I have no problem, but are you sure its a good idea? If I didnt tell her, she thought I was hiding something, so I shared..

 

Now back to her email... After I read it I called immediately, and talked to her, and told her there is no competition at all, she has my heart, and she is the one I want to be with.

I told her my phone was on airplane mode cause it charges faster as I was doing a lot of reading (I was reading other peoples experiences here on the forum, multiple tabs open etc..)

 

She asked where I was at, and I told her I was at my ex's... This made things go from suck to blow!

After driving home a few hours, I saw her the next day, and she actually gave me some gifts for me and my boys... I was actually humbled by this.

 

I talked to her, and she said "You have no idea what you did to me by staying at your ex's place who you did not feel safe around".

I said I didn't feel safe, but after the lawyers talked something must have clicked on the boys moms end to where she is being actually nice.

 

My gf said, How would you feel if I stayed at my ex's house for a few days? I said "If I ditched you for Christmas I would be pretty pissed at myself at how I could have screwed this up to where you left to your ex's place for the holidays"

 

There is no way on this planet, and if I had a gun to my head that I would EVER get back with my boys mom... Its a moot point, and I told my gf that, and said I felt my hand was forced, it was either eating alone over a cold bowl of cereal for Christmas or being with my boys, whose mom and I have no attraction whatsoever, zero, zilch!

I felt weird cause its not my home, and being around my boys mom was like being around a dude, thats where that is.

 

So now I am at home, with my 2 kids alone for New Years, we didnt get invited by my gf to hang out or anything, she is out with her kids at a family fun center thing..arcade games etc..

 

I said, maybe we should date other people, and just call this off... She said she doesnt want to, and she just needs time to process that I stayed at my ex's, and threw in a couple of other things, such as our parenting differences, which I said thats cause we have 2 different households, its a common challenge for blended families.

 

Shes made the effort to actually talk with me, and now I just feel like Im being punished for going to my ex's house to be with my boys cause she kicked me to the curb for Christmas.. Which by the way I had to ask if I can go with her and her family... Her response "I dont think my mom will mind" and she would have had to ask! Seriously? We've been going out for a year and that should be implied..

 

Anyways Im confused, hurt, and just wanting to be loved by the woman who stood by my side and now has to process the errors of my ways..

 

Any help, words of wisdom, flamed for staying at the ex's for the holidays, whatever..Just so confused and feel she is sabotaging this relationship cause she was physically and mentally abused BADLY by her ex several years ago which has done a number to her self-esteem.

I would often times let my gf know how sexy I think she is, and how beautiful she looks, buy her flowers when shes had a rough week, help cook, clean up her place, and just loving her for her.

 

Your insight is appreciated, and am really needing some guidance on this.

[idoltree]

Hi Forging,

 

I read your story and felt compelled to reply. I spent years in a relationship with a divorced dad with a high conflict ex, so I feel like I can pipe in.

 

First, the situation your girlfriend is in is indeed stressful. I can sympathize with her. It is difficult to watch the man you love have to interact with another woman who knows how to push his buttons and manipulate him and keeps trying to do it well after the divorce is over. The ex-wife I am familiar with would rage and send 25 abusive texts in a row and then show up and want to BFFs with him and pretend like nothing ever happened. My (now) ex would supplicate her and go around the crazy merry-go-round, and let her off the hook every time, because it was better than setting her off again. Looking back, I had lost a great deal of respect for him, and it was one piece of the death knell of our otherwise wonderful relationship. His favorite thing to tell me was that he had an "amicable co-parenting relationship", and the issue was that I was insecure; my perspective was that I was watching the man I loved put another woman's emotional needs (crazy ones, at that) as his priority. His ex put a ton of emotional relationshippy garbage in with co-parenting, and my ex just didn't want to deal with her so he ended up enabling her crazy. Good times all around.

 

You appear to be doing everything right. You can't control what your ex does, but you can control your reactions to it. Not responding is the best response. It is a clear cut boundary, and congratulations to you for not getting dragged into an emotional push-pull with your ex. But your girlfriend is making a grave error, in that her reaction to attempted drama with your ex is to put you in a emotional push-pull with her. She needs to learn that this is not a strategy for success and she is damaging her bond with you.

 

Putting a man between two emotional manipulators is bad news. She needs to deal with her insecurity (sorry, she does have it if your boundaries with your ex are as you describe) and learn to have a sense of humor about what your ex does and be a source of support to you. If she can't do that, she should reconsider whether it's good for her to know what your ex is sending. Since you have clear boundaries, she should feel okay letting go of control and trusting you. If she doesn't, that's a problem. Perhaps she can't trust you and it's all about her insecurity. That's something she needs to work on and stop taking the easy route of taking it out on you.

 

Second, you seem to make a lot of assumptions, like the length of time that you've been together means you spend holidays together. If you are not clearly communicating your expectations, that is an easy fix. Be proactive, think of what problems may come up if you continue making unspoken assumptions, and speak up about them.

 

Third, I don't like how you are being treated by your gf, and I don't like how you are enabling her.

 

Regarding the Christmas incident - your girlfriend put you in a no win. She cancelled plans and suddenly left you alone on Christmas. Christmas is meant to be spent surrounded by family; without that, it can be depressing and sad. Did she expect that her rejection of you would teach you a lesson when you were all alone and punish you? I feel like it very well may have been on that level of cruelty and you did nothing wrong making alternate plans to avoid being alone on Christmas. And now your girlfriend wants to punish you for your choice of wanting to be with loved ones on Christmas. She's the one whose actions led to you having to make that choice, but, of course, she might have to be slightly introspective to see that piece of it.

 

Regarding your different parenting styles... yeah, and? Blended families take work. The adults have to unite as a team, set the rules for all of the children, and back one another up, or it's not going to be a happy union. Adults at the center, kids allowed to be kids, just like in an intact nuclear family. For some reason, people want to create step and blended families where all reason and common sense go out the window, and there are little teams, and kids are treated like adults and allowed to make adult decisions and treat adults badly, and then they wonder why it's not working out well.

 

Okay, so now on to you. I have to say it - I suspect that you have issues with enabling and co-dependency. You were married and had kids with an addict, and unless that behavior came totally out of left field at the end of the marriage and you left immediately, you became an enabler of her in order to hold the relationship together. This is normal with an addict, but it is not healthy. I imagine that you are a good guy, but that you don't trust yourself, you don't stick up for yourself, and you tend to take on whatever BS a woman is throwing at you, and this has become normalcy for you.

 

I want you to stop that. Telling your girlfriend that she's sexy, buying her flowers, cleaning her place - that's wonderful but you should do those things when your relationship is on equal footing. Just like with kids - do not reward bad behavior. Equal footing would mean that she's telling you that you're handsome, she's cooking you special meals, she's cleaning. Relationships are a back and forth, and if you get into a habit of acting submissive to a woman who has to be in control and emotional manipulates you, the relationship will never get back on equal footing.

 

Here's what I want you to do: be a man and do not put up with disrespect. Your girlfriend wants this from you too, even if it angers and frustrates her in the short term. Embrace your maleness and do not be afraid to put your foot down when emotional nonsense that resembles no-win scenarios, manipulation, and hidden tests arrive. For example:

 

• with Christmas: "Girlfriend, I understand that you are upset. I made the choice not to be alone on Christmas and to be with my children, since you put me in the situation where I had to make that choice. I had wanted to spend it with you, and it was your choice that left me alone. So I do not want to hear another word about it. If you're upset at the choice I made, then examine your actions that led up to what happened, and don't let it happen again. You put me in a a no-win and I did what I needed to do. Period."
  
• with ex-wife stuff: "Girlfriend, we have been through this over and over and I'm just about done going through it. My ex is going to do what she's going to do. I can't control it. I have consistent boundaries with her, I do not entertain her nonsense, and you should be proud and supportive of me for that. I do not like getting garbage from one woman only to turn around and get garbage from the one who is supposed to be on a united front with me. This is exactly what my ex-wife wants. Do you not see that? This needs to stop and you need to trust me."
  

See what I did there? Those are not cruel, they are not abusive, your voice may raise up when you say it, but it is not anger. You are putting down boundaries with your girlfriend and you badly need them. Your historical tendency to enable and submit have you putting up with incredible amounts of BS, and women prone to dishing it out will just keep piling on more as long as you'll take it. So find your voice and use it to speak up for yourself. Believe it or not, this is the strategy towards an equal and healthy relationship. It puts you on equal footing, and it allows you to respect yourself and your girlfriend to respect you.

 

With that said, we haven't addressed the quality (for lack of a better word) of your girlfriend. Be honest - why are you with her? Is it because she lives upstairs from you, so it's convenient, and she showed interest in you? Because I'm concerned that you've gotten with another woman who wants to rule the roost and control everything, and no matter what you do you're wrong, and - in her mind - sticking up for yourself equates to mistreating her.

 

Any help, words of wisdom, flamed for staying at the ex's for the holidays, whatever..Just so confused and feel she is sabotaging this relationship cause she was physically and mentally abused BADLY by her ex several years ago which has done a number to her self-esteem.

Nope nope nope nope nope. You are making excuses for a grown woman and this is part of your problem. I don't care what her past was, it's not an excuse to treat someone badly. She is an adult, has been for many years, and she can get counseling in order to leave her baggage out of your relationship. You did not do the things her ex did, therefore why would you let her treat you like you did? You didn't do the crime but you're doing the time, and that's okay with you??

 

I don't know how things will work out with this girlfriend. I'd like you to stop caring so much about her and her needs and prioritize you and your needs. I'd like you to seek out some counseling for yourself, to stop the enabling and co-dependent tendencies, or I fear you'll forever be in relationships like this. You'll be attracted to manipulators and they'll be attracted to you (because other men won't put up with their garbage.)

 

Whether things work out with your gf should be lower on your priority list. No matter what you do, I think it's clear that it is time to find peace and emotional maturity in your life and relationships. You may have made a bad choice in romantic partners again, or she may shape up once you put your foot down. Time will tell. But stop worrying about that so much and start worrying about you, and what life skills you are demonstrating for your kids. You should be in a relationship that allows you to be a happy father, or in no relationship at all. If all the drama is making you emotionally unavailable to your kids, then it is a no-brainer that you should end it and be alone until you are in spiritual shape for a healthy relationship with a healthy woman.

[ForgingAhead]

Idoltree!

Your experience, and the parallels are eerily similar, and I read your post 2x's easy..

When I was with the ex a few years ago, I did have a codependent relationship, and went to CODA meetings, and learned about myself, am still doing counseling around some trauma I had experienced living with an addict.

Your statement rings true, and that codependent behavior is rearing its ugly head again..

 

The enabling part makes a lot of sense, and when I first stopped sharing the crap the ex was sending, this sent red flags right up the pole with my gf.. She thought I was hiding something, and I said, if you want to know I will tell you, but I am not going to mention anything cause its affecting you, and from my perspective its meaningless.

 

I told my gf that the walls have to come down (her push pull game) cause I took mine down (they were sky high when we first started dating), and I am for real, not going anywhere, and only desire her no one else.

 

She said that she knows she needs counseling to deal with her putting up walls, and I said if need be I will go with you, and I'm right by your side, this relationship can be amazing if we meet half way, but right now I'm going all the way and its tiring.

 

I use to live a few minutes from the downtown of a major city, with all its polish, little substance. My gf lives out in the country where we would be outside looking at the stars, and talking and kissing and whatever..

 

The lifestyle would allow my kids to appreciate life, and grow being mentally healthy and strong, and the rent was way cheaper as well.. Not that I couldnt find that anywhere else, but our plan was to be closer together, and start being a family, then move in etc etc..

 

Thats why I moved, to be closer, and have a better quality of life (or so I thought).

 

My gf told me since the "incident", that I could have gone for Christmas dinner with her and the family, I said I'm not some pity party looking for a handout, and I would rather be around people that want me to be there, and you (the gf) didnt want me around, so why bother?

 

I do see her wanting to control things, and I told her she needs to let go of the reigns a bit, and said I get you've been on your own for X years, but there are two of us here. This is in regards to leading the household, and I told her I dont have problems cracking the whip, but your kids are yours, and mine are mine, so we need to actually talk about how the discipline aspect is going to work..

 

 

After reading on what to say... I did all that except for "Dont do it again period" I said you forced my hand, and I wasn't going to be alone, and Im sure it will come up again, and will put it down just like that.

 

 

I will tell her about the ex-gf stuff, even though I had already said I'm not talking about it, the ex is her own person, and if you ask I will share, but otherwise Im not saying anything.. Cause seriously it is exhausting, and its fueling the fires of her insecurities, and its not ok with me to do that, its kinda weird the gf wants to know this stuff, and am really unsure about the motive or intent..

 

 

Why am I with her... Well, she stuck by my side through some crazy stressful times, she loved me for me, she paid attention to me, made me feel like I had a home and was loved.

We have similar relationship dynamics, and connected on many many levels, sexually, taste in movies, she showed my kid affection as his mom has been in and out of the picture.

 

 

I will be talking with my counselor on some work around enabling and co-dependent tendencies I may\am displaying even at a subconscious level.. I cant see it, an am most likely seeing the results which I am not cool with at all, and that has to change. I need to be conscious of it and get some solid boundaries in place e.g. Quit the childish games of punishing me for doing what I had to do.

 

And yes, I actually suspect it was the gf's way of saying F!@K YOU for going to your ex's after I gave you the cold shoulder and left you hanging for Christmas..

 

 

The irony is, if I really did have feelings for my ex (hypothetical) I would have asked if I can come up for new years, but I have my kids with me for New Years, and my kids and I spent it here at my house, so it was a moot point.

 

Im getting fed up with the BS, and its a lot of work to look for a new school for my kid this time of year, look for a place to move to, packing, moving, and all this while I am working, and my kid goes to school.. Its a major PITA looking at the logistics involved.

 

 

She did contact me last night while she was out with her kid and girlfriends kid and the conversation was light and funny.. I didnt do the "I miss you and I love you" even though I wanted to cause, yeah I miss her and wanted to be with her.

[idoltree]

She did contact me last night while she was out with her kid and girlfriends kid and the conversation was light and funny.. I didnt do the "I miss you and I love you" even though I wanted to cause, yeah I miss her and wanted to be with her.

 

Don't let her just slink back into the relationship without recognition on her part of how she contributed to you going to your ex's house for Christmas.

 

What exactly did you do that was so awful that it couldn't wait until after Christmas? I'm guessing nothing. It's just an exceptionally sh*tty thing to do to someone especially if you know they don't have convenient back up plans. I'd really hold her feet to the fire for what seems like a bit of cruelty and game playing from her.

 

Definitely don't send her affections if she texts you. Be cool when she replies and be distant. If you let her walk all over you and act like nothing ever happened, you are rewarding her behavior and ensuring another round in the future.

 

Now, I know this might not be popular, but have you considered reading something like Married Man Sex Life Primer? I feel that you bow down to your gf quite a bit, and I think you are unknowingly steering away from the relationship that you want by doing so. There are some good portions in there about respect as a man. These things don't come naturally to you. You've probably been trained early in life that male assertiveness translates to aggressiveness and anger, and you should feel shame for those. Reject that paradigm.

 

As for her wanting to know what your ex texts, when/if things are better between the two of you, sit down and talk about it. Tell her that you have real reservations about continuing to inform her considering her overreactions.

 

Ask her what she'd like to do. She either gets to know and stops the reactivity, or she doesn't get to know unless it's going to impact her. Her choice of which, but something's got to change, end of story. This is not working for you as is, and you are 1/2 of the relationship therefore it is a problem. If you ask me, she appears to be under the impression you are incompetent and she's running the show. That attitude needs to stop.

[ForgingAhead]

Im not going to let her slink back in on the BS move she pulled. I've not contacted her at all today, and she is home, she knows where I'm at and I have my kids with me and they keep me occupied.

 

I have to treat her like a child, with the rewards\consequences thing.. No rewarding bad behavior, and I am definitely not only appearing distant, but am not sending her texts just to say hi..

 

I did call her out after I got back, and told her "What did you expect, for me to be waiting around at your beck and call? Im not your lapdog, so I took off for Christmas to be with my boys"

 

The early life training sounds true and it is something I am going to be working on, and I just got the book you suggested..yeah I did!

 

I will and need to change her selfish attitude, cause seriously Im the best thing she has had, and have treated her with respect, now its my turn to get some much earned and deserved respect by sticking to my guns and handling business.

Will it be easy, not really, and if its not her someone else will be pretty stoked to be with me.

 

Im kinda pissed if she thinks I am incompetent... Cause the thought of that has me pretty pissed off. Considering Ive helped her out LOTS out of some tight jams.. Now, its her turn to start making some changes if she ever does, and I really do hope she does cause she was amazing, but now it appears I am seeing her true colors, and shes got to take accountability for her part in what transpired.

She's acting like it was a damn assassination attempt!

[idoltree]

Im not going to let her slink back in on the BS move she pulled. I've not contacted her at all today, and she is home, she knows where I'm at and I have my kids with me and they keep me occupied.

 

Good.

 

I have to treat her like a child, with the rewards\consequences thing.. No rewarding bad behavior, and I am definitely not only appearing distant, but am not sending her texts just to say hi..

Clarification on this - you are not training her, you are training yourself. An enabler tends to reward bad behavior. This is about you, not her.

 

Something will happen when you become consistent about not rewarding bad behavior. She'll either shape up in the way that you want, or she won't and the relationship will end. If it's the latter, if you hadn't modified your behavior, it was just going to be more punishment and her running the show, so don't think you missed out on happiness if it ends. It will be a signal about her character, her ability to introspect and make changes to herself. Some people cannot do that, or they just plain don't want to, preferring to control other people or find the "perfect" person for them where there is never any sadness or conflict.

 

I did call her out after I got back, and told her "What did you expect, for me to be waiting around at your beck and call? Im not your lapdog, so I took off for Christmas to be with my boys"

This is a little over the top aggressive. I understand that you're angry, but this is not the best way to get your message across. Try and think about people in marketing or public relations. They develop what the message is and they consistently stay on message. Your message for this incident is "I either had to be alone for Christmas or be with my kids. I chose to be with my kids. If you're unhappy with my totally natural decision to not want to spend Christmas alone, then take a look at your choices that put me into that no-win. I will not tolerate being punished for making the best of a bad situation that I never wanted to be in the first place."

 

The early life training sounds true and it is something I am going to be working on, and I just got the book you suggested..yeah I did!

If you can connect the dots to your inner monologue that leads you to enable emotional manipulators to messages from specific people in your childhood, you can figure out who trained you to be this way. Once you know that, you can take a good look at them and their personal history, and come to understand why they did that.

 

Oftentimes it is a relief to spend time connecting the dots and understanding that it was never about you and your flaws - you were just a kid! It was always about the adults in your life and their flaws. Hopefully it allows you to let go of those lessons that aren't serving you well.

 

I will and need to change her selfish attitude, cause seriously Im the best thing she has had, and have treated her with respect, now its my turn to get some much earned and deserved respect by sticking to my guns and handling business.

I used to be controlling in the way your gf is, and I'm not proud of it. My relationship with my ex may have survived if he firmly stuck up for himself in the ways you and I are talking about. I wasn't aware of what I was doing, and putting his foot down may have helped me see it and change my ways before the relationship ended.

 

I've realized how I need to change and am working on it. I was repeating lessons from my childhood, but I didn't know it at the time. Additionally, it is a shock once you become aware of current pop culture and the anti-man sentiment. Seriously, sitcoms and commercials are all these super efficient women with bumbling men who can't get it right, and wifey comes to the rescue. Women are trained that men are flawed and that we are entitled to be treated certain ways by them. If the man doesn't worship us and do what we say, it is him that it is wrong.

 

Rarely is there a message that we should probably take a look at ourselves and how we treat men in our life. This probably isn't an issue for women who grew up in loving homes with healthy relationship modeling, but it most certainly is for me. Now that I'm aware of my actions, I feel sorrow, and plan on placing respect of my man at the top of my priorities for my next relationship. It's shocking to me when I look back that I thought it acceptable to treat the man who meant the most to me worse than I treated my female friends. If they hurt my feelings or disappointed me somehow, I gave them the benefit of the doubt. I didn't do these very basic things for my ex.

 

I hope that helps you understand that your gf is not necessarily doing this intentionally, and treating you as if you are incompetent doesn't mean she thinks that you actually are incompetent. I feel regret with how I sometimes treated my ex and I've acknowledged it and apologized to him. It was about my anxiety all along, not him. We had other problems on his end; this was the one that was under my control, and I messed it up big time.

 

Will it be easy, not really, and if its not her someone else will be pretty stoked to be with me.

Right on. Don't be afraid to put your foot down in the future

 

Im kinda pissed if she thinks I am incompetent... Cause the thought of that has me pretty pissed off. Considering Ive helped her out LOTS out of some tight jams..

See above. She doesn't necessarily think that.

 

Now, its her turn to start making some changes if she ever does, and I really do hope she does cause she was amazing, but now it appears I am seeing her true colors, and shes got to take accountability for her part in what transpired. She's acting like it was a damn assassination attempt!

As an enabler/co-dependent, you are used to taking it seriously when a woman tells you "I feel like this and it's because of you!" If they have a victim complex, they bring up such things often, and it is a way of controlling you. They know that all they have to do is act like an injured party and you'll back down from your principles.

 

Women are people, too. If you would think your best friend was a weirdo if he was acting like your gf, then there's a problem with the way she is acting. For a reality check, until not being an enabler become second nature to you, compare her behavior to strong compassionate people in your life (knowing that you don't always see their lowest moments because you're not in a intimate relationship with them) to perform a check to try and understand if it's drama central or if she is being strong and expressing hurt. Sometimes it can be both, but don't give her a pass on her behavior just because she's female. Doing that is not being a compassionate feminist, it's enabling bad behavior. Feminism = equality, not that women are good and men are bad. Not that women should be treated better than men. (I may be touching on a nerve here; my ex's ex-wife considered herself a proud feminist, but, oh god, the whiiiiining whenever he hurt her post-divorce fee fees, or she had to actually do something by herself like her income taxes. Strong woman my *ss! She finds power by acting like a victim of life and she is sticking with it.)

 

Your gf may be someone who likes being a victim and it may have been a component of your attraction to one another (she needs someone to put up with her garbage, her garbage feels familiar and oddly comforting to you so you don't run like most men.) If this is the case, then this won't end well. If the two of you are compassionate introspective people who have just gotten into a bad pattern, then there is hope you can turn this around.

Edited January 2, 2015 by idoltree

[ForgingAhead]

Clarification on this - you are not training her, you are training yourself. An enabler tends to reward bad behavior. This is about you, not her.

 

Something will happen when you become consistent about not rewarding bad behavior. She'll either shape up in the way that you want, or she won't and the relationship will end. If it's the latter, if you hadn't modified your behavior, it was just going to be more punishment and her running the show, so don't think you missed out on happiness if it ends. It will be a signal about her character, her ability to introspect and make changes to herself. Some people cannot do that, or they just plain don't want to, preferring to control other people or find the "perfect" person for them where there is never any sadness or conflict.

 

Weird you used the word "perfect", when we were discussing "our" issues, she said she wants to do whats best for ALL of us, and that things should be perfect, should be right.. Sent a red flag up the pole for me.

 

However while reading the book, I am applying the tit for tat strategy, basically, she does something mean, I pull the retaliate card, then get to forgiving which should come from her (if she was mean).

 

 

 

 

This is a little over the top aggressive. I understand that you're angry, but this is not the best way to get your message across. Try and think about people in marketing or public relations. They develop what the message is and they consistently stay on message. Your message for this incident is "I either had to be alone for Christmas or be with my kids. I chose to be with my kids. If you're unhappy with my totally natural decision to not want to spend Christmas alone, then take a look at your choices that put me into that no-win. I will not tolerate being punished for making the best of a bad situation that I never wanted to be in the first place."

 

It felt like it was necessary, as I was not given the same courtesy, and treated second rate, I was letting her know exactly how I was feeling, but I do see your point. Wait a second.. Isnt the approach you suggested enabling her?

 

 

As an enabler/co-dependent, you are used to taking it seriously when a woman tells you "I feel like this and it's because of you!" If they have a victim complex, they bring up such things often, and it is a way of controlling you. They know that all they have to do is act like an injured party and you'll back down from your principles.

 

This stems from mommy issues... I said it. I was never EVER able to please that woman, no tmatter what I did right or wrong, and if I got a "thanks" it was a sarcastic one like "Thanks... for nothing I suppose". This caused me to do whatever it takes to try and "make" my partner happy... Maybe I am looking for impossible women that will never be pleased, or I feel like I have to always please them, and they are never satisfied, and get tired? Or both?

 

Anyways I see this as a determent to my growth, and I seriously need to shake this off.

 

I am now seeing more clearly that what happened as I was growing up betaized me, and my moment of freedom was when the ex bailed ( I was so relieved evil incarnate had left) and I got my balls back, had dates left and right, super cute nanny for my kid (she was 26, I was 41... oh yeah lol) , she had a huge crush on me, and I was just doing my thing, and lapping up the long over due attention, and not giving one F*ck about females.. I wasnt disrespectful, but really could care less...

My current gf, was the ONLY woman I brought back to my house, and introduced my kid to.

 

I held on to my mindset of "You love me madly, and I just like you a lot", and it worked! Till I saw how she understood so well what I was going through, and how we connected, was AWESOME! I loved her, and still do love her deeply..

 

 

 

I used to be controlling in the way your gf is, and I'm not proud of it. My relationship with my ex may have survived if he firmly stuck up for himself in the ways you and I are talking about. I wasn't aware of what I was doing, and putting his foot down may have helped me see it and change my ways before the relationship ended.

 

Who ended it and, was it salvageable??

 

 

I've realized how I need to change and am working on it. I was repeating lessons from my childhood, but I didn't know it at the time. Additionally, it is a shock once you become aware of current pop culture and the anti-man sentiment. Seriously, sitcoms and commercials are all these super efficient women with bumbling men who can't get it right, and wifey comes to the rescue. Women are trained that men are flawed and that we are entitled to be treated certain ways by them. If the man doesn't worship us and do what we say, it is him that it is wrong.

Yes, its the pussification of mankind, not to mention the stigma attached to singe dads with kids.. Why does he have them, oh the mom must be in bad shape... Im living proof its possible, and have faced a sea of opposition whether in court, or amongst so called peers..

 

 

Rarely is there a message that we should probably take a look at ourselves and how we treat men in our life. This probably isn't an issue for women who grew up in loving homes with healthy relationship modeling, but it most certainly is for me. Now that I'm aware of my actions, I feel sorrow, and plan on placing respect of my man at the top of my priorities for my next relationship. It's shocking to me when I look back that I thought it acceptable to treat the man who meant the most to me worse than I treated my female friends. If they hurt my feelings or disappointed me somehow, I gave them the benefit of the doubt. I didn't do these very basic things for my ex.

That is not a popular thought, or lifestyle.. Apparently its engrained into society.

 

Has it been a long road as you work on yourself??

 

 

I hope that helps you understand that your gf is not necessarily doing this intentionally, and treating you as if you are incompetent doesn't mean she thinks that you actually are incompetent. I feel regret with how I sometimes treated my ex and I've acknowledged it and apologized to him. It was about my anxiety all along, not him. We had other problems on his end; this was the one that was under my control, and I messed it up big time.

It helps, and I keep re-reading your posts as they have been a source of strength for perspective.

 

Would you get back with the ex?

 

 

 

 

As an enabler/co-dependent, you are used to taking it seriously when a woman tells you "I feel like this and it's because of you!" If they have a victim complex, they bring up such things often, and it is a way of controlling you. They know that all they have to do is act like an injured party and you'll back down from your principles.

Knight and shining armor is over rated.. This isn't Excalibur. Thats what I have to keep telling myself when I "Just want to be helpful", and yes the victim role came out after I told her where I was.. The arrogance of her!

 

 

Women are people, too. If you would think your best friend was a weirdo if he was acting like your gf, then there's a problem with the way she is acting. For a reality check, until not being an enabler become second nature to you, compare her behavior to strong compassionate people in your life (knowing that you don't always see their lowest moments because you're not in a intimate relationship with them) to perform a check to try and understand if it's drama central or if she is being strong and expressing hurt. Sometimes it can be both, but don't give her a pass on her behavior just because she's female. Doing that is not being a compassionate feminist, it's enabling bad behavior. Feminism = equality, not that women are good and men are bad. Not that women should be treated better than men. (I may be touching on a nerve here; my ex's ex-wife considered herself a proud feminist, but, oh god, the whiiiiining whenever he hurt her post-divorce fee fees, or she had to actually do something by herself like her income taxes. Strong woman my *ss! She finds power by acting like a victim of life and she is sticking with it.)

 

 

The ex's ex sounds like a professional victim, and every victim needs a villain..

 

I'm going to apply your suggestions as a filter of sorts, and fine tune a bit.

 

 

 

Your gf may be someone who likes being a victim and it may have been a component of your attraction to one another (she needs someone to put up with her garbage, her garbage feels familiar and oddly comforting to you so you don't run like most men.) If this is the case, then this won't end well. If the two of you are compassionate introspective people who have just gotten into a bad pattern, then there is hope you can turn this around.

 

I told my gf "we are triggering eachother" she agreed, and I said we need to work on this so it doesnt happen, cause this isn't like being betrayed, we are talking past eachother, we need to talk and work it out together.

 

I really really want her to knock on my door, say "Forging, I am really sorry, I have trust issues, and dont want us to be apart, I love you so much", and then we have crazy makeup sex, and we get started on the right footing.. Im praying its a bad pattern, cause this was not apparent before, well happened once before, but even she admitted she was having a head trip... I still stuck around, but we didnt talk about "her head trip" which caused things to escalate..

 

On a side note, I have asked her for her key to out mailbox so I can go make a copy... She never gives it to me so I can make one, and Im wondering if she is wanting to see if my kids mom sends me stuff, which by the way she sent a Christmas card, and my gf got mad "Hers a card from <exs name>, now that your all friendly!" I want to laugh now, but not at that time, it was tense.. Just ugly, and she cant communicate properly (her words) how hurt she was/is.. Anyways just something I wanted to share.

Edited January 3, 2015 by ForgingAhead

[idoltree]

Weird you used the word "perfect", when we were discussing "our" issues, she said she wants to do whats best for ALL of us, and that things should be perfect, should be right.. Sent a red flag up the pole for me.

 

Haha - same thing with my ex. A deeply held belief that being with the right person means 100% happiness 100% of the time, and that if there are problems it means the relationship isn't right. It's a Disney Princess fantasy, and it's all about avoiding having to examine one's self and one's own motivations.

 

I don't think a relationship should be rife with problems. I'm more realistic and think that problems are bound to arise in any relationship that isn't totally emotionally void, and strength comes from working through what comes up. I think that nothing in life worth having comes easily.

 

However while reading the book, I am applying the tit for tat strategy, basically, she does something mean, I pull the retaliate card, then get to forgiving which should come from her (if she was mean).

This is punishment. You have a great deal of anger within you, and it's not all towards her, but you're taking it out on her. Figure out who it belongs to or you will keep bringing it into your relationships.

 

Check out the book "No More Mr. Nice Guy" too. If you google it there is a .pdf that comes up.

 

The changes that you need to make to stop enabling are about strength as a man - boundaries, respect, and putting your foot down. There should be no retaliation involved, just changing how you react to things she does that hurt or frustrate you. You are going for "tit for tat" because of the anger I addressed above. That has no business in a healthy relationship.

 

 

It felt like it was necessary, as I was not given the same courtesy, and treated second rate, I was letting her know exactly how I was feeling, but I do see your point. Wait a second.. Isnt the approach you suggested enabling her?

Is there not a ton of grey area between punishment and enabling? You seem to see it as black and white. You are not enabling someone if you are not punishing them.

 

You need to go for something in the grey area that is mature but clear that you have boundaries in relation to the incident. Yelling about not being her "lap dog" is totally inappropriate and is that anger surfacing, again.

 

This stems from mommy issues... I said it. I was never EVER able to please that woman, no tmatter what I did right or wrong, and if I got a "thanks" it was a sarcastic one like "Thanks... for nothing I suppose". This caused me to do whatever it takes to try and "make" my partner happy... Maybe I am looking for impossible women that will never be pleased, or I feel like I have to always please them, and they are never satisfied, and get tired? Or both?

Yes, you are trying to resolve childhood issues through relationships, something we all tend to do when our primary issues are with opposite sex parents.

 

The book I mentioned above will go into this sort of stuff.

 

Anyways I see this as a determent to my growth, and I seriously need to shake this off.

Nope. It doesn't work like that. You don't "shake this off" like you're Taylor Swift.

 

You confront it. You turn toward it and examine it instead of turning your back on it. You have to before you can move forward. You've been running and shaking it off your whole life, and that's how you arrived where you are in life. If you want to find happiness and be your authentic self, you do anything but shake it off. You embrace it as part of your history and you work through it.

 

I am now seeing more clearly that what happened as I was growing up betaized me, and my moment of freedom was when the ex bailed ( I was so relieved evil incarnate had left) and I got my balls back, had dates left and right, super cute nanny for my kid (she was 26, I was 41... oh yeah lol) , she had a huge crush on me, and I was just doing my thing, and lapping up the long over due attention, and not giving one F*ck about females.. I wasnt disrespectful, but really could care less...

Please don't talk about "betas" and "females." Those are representations of quick fixes and dehumanizing women. I hate when a guy refers to women as "females". Female what? Chimpanzee? Turtle?

 

Imagine if I sat here saying "all males". It's quite disenfranchising, isn't it?

 

My current gf, was the ONLY woman I brought back to my house, and introduced my kid to.

 

I held on to my mindset of "You love me madly, and I just like you a lot", and it worked! Till I saw how she understood so well what I was going through, and how we connected, was AWESOME! I loved her, and still do love her deeply..

Good! If you have this with her I feel more optimistic about her capacity to introspect and change.

 

Now accept some harsh truth - that deep love, that very connection, has brought you to a place in your life where you cannot keep doing what you've been doing and sustain that deep love and connection.

 

Who ended it and, was it salvageable??

I don't want to discuss it publicly. If you want to know details you can PM me.

 

In general, there are parallels with your situation. That's probably why I was drawn to reply to your original post. It ended because of the slower damage I did to the relationship over time by not respecting him. I fixed this, but the damage was done. He did damage when our deep love and connection meant he simply couldn't keep doing what he's been doing. He chose to keep doing what he's been doing.

 

Yes, its the pussification of mankind, not to mention the stigma attached to single dads with kids.. Why does he have them, oh the mom must be in bad shape... I'm living proof its possible, and have faced a sea of opposition whether in court, or amongst so called peers..

I won't lie. My ex had a interpersonally horrific ex-wife, and I judged him for it. Part of it was "what does it mean about me if he was once with that mess and now he's with me?" and part of it was questioning his judgment.

 

He's never dug into why he went for her (*cough* Mommy *cough*) and that was a big part of my judgment. If he had some self-awareness, it would have been a different story.

 

Has it been a long road as you work on yourself??

No, actually. Once I saw what I'd been doing, it was easy to change. Both in regard to subject matter within the relationship, and the issue of overall respect. However I haven't been in an LTR since, so I can't say how I do with general respect on a day to day basis. I'm hopeful that I can, given that the changes in regard to specific subjects were so easy once I became aware.

 

It helps, and I keep re-reading your posts as they have been a source of strength for perspective.

Glad to help you. I treasure the connections I've made with people online who really "get it." It's so difficult to find in the real world.

 

Would you get back with the ex?

In a heartbeat, if he'd started sorting himself out. If he hadn't, I'd cry and say "no."

 

Knight and shining armor is over rated.. This isn't Excalibur. Thats what I have to keep telling myself when I "Just want to be helpful", and yes the victim role came out after I told her where I was.. The arrogance of her!

Love isn't transactional. You learned when you were small that you had to caretake to get love, and you resent the hell out of it. You'll read about that in the book I recommended above.

 

The ex's ex sounds like a professional victim, and every victim needs a villain..

Yes. And he drove me nuts still falling for it. He let her and his mother off the hook for bad behavior, making excuses for them. He expected me to be perfect. No empathy or excuses for me, while I watched him accept their terrible behavior. The Stockholm Syndrome is strong.

 

I can't express how badly it hurts to be the woman in his life who doesn't want to control him, and not being recognized for that.

 

I told my gf "we are triggering eachother" she agreed, and I said we need to work on this so it doesnt happen, cause this isn't like being betrayed, we are talking past eachother, we need to talk and work it out together.

Triggering each other is a good way to put it. The caveat is that working on it together is a very small piece of the picture. You've clearly got some individual work to do, and that may require a break. There's some anger and emptiness you need to face, and having someone to fall back on might mean you don't get there. This is the one time in your life where feeling despair and abandonment is going to be necessary.

 

I really really want her to knock on my door, say "Forging, I am really sorry, I have trust issues, and dont want us to be apart, I love you so much", and then we have crazy makeup sex, and we get started on the right footing.. Im praying its a bad pattern, cause this was not apparent before, well happened once before, but even she admitted she was having a head trip... I still stuck around, but we didnt talk about "her head trip" which caused things to escalate..

And now it's clear she's got some individual work to do, too.

 

May I place a wager that she's got issues with her father? Because it appears she's taking out some anger on you.

 

On a side note, I have asked her for her key to out mailbox so I can go make a copy... She never gives it to me so I can make one, and Im wondering if she is wanting to see if my kids mom sends me stuff, which by the way she sent a Christmas card, and my gf got mad "Hers a card from <exs name>, now that your all friendly!" I want to laugh now, but not at that time, it was tense.. Just ugly, and she cant communicate properly (her words) how hurt she was/is.. Anyways just something I wanted to share.

This is a boundary issue. What are you, in prison and she's the correctional officer? Or are you a little boy and Mommy knows what's best for him?

 

You are enabling her insecurity by allowing this to continue.

 

You need a key to get your own mail and she should not have access to your mail (it's unfortunate if it's a shared mailbox). This is not-negotiable. Take your power back.

[ForgingAhead]

I don't think a relationship should be rife with problems. I'm more realistic and think that problems are bound to arise in any relationship that isn't totally emotionally void, and strength comes from working through what comes up. I think that nothing in life worth having comes easily.

I believe that its all about resolving those problems, sounds a lot easier and some could be, and deeper issues tend to surface as a symptom. Why don't they surface early on instead of when you are already in love with the person.

 

 

This is punishment. You have a great deal of anger within you, and it's not all towards her, but you're taking it out on her. Figure out who it belongs to or you will keep bringing it into your relationships.

 

Check out the book "No More Mr. Nice Guy" too. If you google it there is a .pdf that comes up.

 

The changes that you need to make to stop enabling are about strength as a man - boundaries, respect, and putting your foot down. There should be no retaliation involved, just changing how you react to things she does that hurt or frustrate you. You are going for "tit for tat" because of the anger I addressed above. That has no business in a healthy relationship.

 

I got the book and just started to read it in between cleaning my place.

 

One thing I am working on is not reacting to her blatant display of ignoring me, for example last night she just bailed to her aunts house as she is house sitting less than 50 yards away, and has her kids with her, no good night no nothing..

 

Today I sent her a text saying Hi, and she said Hi back after an hour, and I asked how her day is going. I didn't say "Why are you ignoring me" or anything like that...

 

By being "casual" in conversation I'm not giving her the power to know I am affected by her actions, whether they be games or she is seriously busy which I doubt, cause she is on her phone alot texting.

 

However it is eating me up inside, and I'm feeling really hurt, sad and alone and really want to disappear off the face of the earth, just how I'm feeling not that I will do anything... just *****ty is all.

 

I found a local CODA group and will be going this week for my first meeting which I am excited to go just cause I get to work on myself and hopefully network with other people.

 

 

Nope. It doesn't work like that. You don't "shake this off" like you're Taylor Swift.

 

You confront it. You turn toward it and examine it instead of turning your back on it. You have to before you can move forward. You've been running and shaking it off your whole life, and that's how you arrived where you are in life. If you want to find happiness and be your authentic self, you do anything but shake it off. You embrace it as part of your history and you work through it.

 

The first step was letting my gf know where I was, and why I went to the ex's for Christmas, even though she is really pissed off still, and being distant, it's her actions she has to see that caused this.. I'm majorly bummed out at the moment..

 

 

Good! If you have this with her I feel more optimistic about her capacity to introspect and change.

 

Now accept some harsh truth - that deep love, that very connection, has brought you to a place in your life where you cannot keep doing what you've been doing and sustain that deep love and connection.

 

I feel I dont have that with her anymore, and maybe its cause Im looking at her actions of ignoring me, and avoiding me.. If she is pissed off, then whats the deal?!!

She said she has a lot of love for me etc, and feel she is backing off due to competing with the ex?! That statement has been a thorn in my side, cause I can't fix that, that's her own stuff, and I told her in previous conversations "I have a clear conscience in being faithful and what I did to not be alone for the holidays, I did nothing wrong, you are feeling that way and that is not for me to own."

 

 

I won't lie. My ex had a interpersonally horrific ex-wife, and I judged him for it. Part of it was "what does it mean about me if he was once with that mess and now he's with me?" and part of it was questioning his judgment.

 

He's never dug into why he went for her (*cough* Mommy *cough*) and that was a big part of my judgment. If he had some self-awareness, it would have been a different story.

 

I am wondering if she is judging me on my choices, and want to find out if thats the case. Maybe this is is me trying to be controlling of her thoughts, or my attempt at reasoning with her, not sure... Just something I want to talk to her about.

 

Mind you I havent shaved for several days, Im not looking like my usual clean cut self, and maybe I will get cleaned up when she is available... Not sure, just want to be putting my best foot forward.

 

Love isn't transactional. You learned when you were small that you had to caretake to get love, and you resent the hell out of it. You'll read about that in the book I recommended above.

 

This sounds like so much work its no joke, and at the cost of the woman I deeply love with all my heart and soul.

 

 

Yes. And he drove me nuts still falling for it. He let her and his mother off the hook for bad behavior, making excuses for them. He expected me to be perfect. No empathy or excuses for me, while I watched him accept their terrible behavior. The Stockholm Syndrome is strong.

 

I can't express how badly it hurts to be the woman in his life who doesn't want to control him, and not being recognized for that.

Hmm... Very interesting you mention that, I recently told my mom how pissed I was for some things she did and its the past, and was disappointed at the lack of support when it happened. She tried to defend it and was unsuccessful at doing so.

 

 

 

Triggering each other is a good way to put it. The caveat is that working on it together is a very small piece of the picture. You've clearly got some individual work to do, and that may require a break. There's some anger and emptiness you need to face, and having someone to fall back on might mean you don't get there. This is the one time in your life where feeling despair and abandonment is going to be necessary.

 

I've felt that so many times, and each time it is just as painful if not so scary it spikes my anxiety and I become a mess.. Its literally caused me to just want to take off and leave, but I am aware that is my reaction to the pain.

 

 

And now it's clear she's got some individual work to do, too.

 

May I place a wager that she's got issues with her father? Because it appears she's taking out some anger on you.

 

Yes she does, she's admitted it, but hasn't taken steps to do so... She works on the front lines regarding crisis in families, and a woman with her background should be able to realize her own behaviors.. I dunno, Its not like I just sit back and watch, I let her know in a firm way.

 

She just seems to not want to talk about *it*, and I feel its a HUGE issue that we need to tak about.. She has that "avoidance" persona.. Ive noticed that.

 

Her dad suffers from depression, and wasn't supportive of her when she was getting her BA, and he had an affair which my gf found out about, plus she always felt ignored.. Started smoking or drinking at age 14, and she has done a lot of growing up, and theres room for improvement.

 

I really want her to just be open, let the fear go, and meet me halfway (I told her that too).

 

 

She came home, and am going to talk to her.. Let her know I need the key so I can make a copy for myself.

[ForgingAhead]

I can't pm you!

 

Contact me at muzique at gmail dot com