Is this a "friend" or not?

[RowanRavyn]

A while back I posted about a friend who went through my email because I am also friends with her ex-boyfriend(fiance).

 

The situation has gotten stranger and stranger. I have had numerous talks with her trying to convince her to go to therapy. She refuses.

 

I honestly don't remember most of the beginning of our friendship. I was very heavily medicated. We had worked together a few times, went to the same chiropractor, etc. I remember the Christmas I got ill her dropping by and bringing breakfast donuts. Then I got sicker (The illness is NOT related to the donuts to clarify).

 

I remember very specific things about the spring of last year. My friend Rob's visit, my niece's visit. Thats about it. I remember thinking at one point last summer, "Wow, how'd she get so close?"

 

We had given her a key to house-sit while we were out of town. Never able to get it back.

 

As you know I recently got married. All of our friends were wonderful. I didn't have the traditional line up. "Maid of honor" set up. I had two of my best friends one female, one male escort my brother and myself to the altar. I had one other friend that got stage fright and bowed out. I didn't replace him.

 

This friend cornered me (after saying there were specific things she was going to pay for as a gift) and asked me why she was good enough to help plan, or pay for things but not good enough to stand up with me. I got really upset. She apologized (just like she did for invading my email), but when she bought something she would leave her receipt in the bag. This stressed me out, and I looked for ways to keep her from spending more. My mother in law intervened as well.

 

She has not been herself in so long that I am not sure who the "real" her is. My children have a very strong reaction to her. I have often felt as tough I were walking on egg shells around her. Its been maddening.

 

This weekend was weird for her because her ex was here for the wedding. She was an emotional wreck, but tried to hold up. She insisted on hanging out near him, which was stressful for everyone I think. It either didn't occur to her, or she was playing martyr, not sure which.

 

Saturday we went to the hotel to wake up one of my friends and bring him back to the apartment to hang out for the day. He was so exhausted from his flight that he let us in and flopped on the bed. She took the only chair in the room and I sat on the bed, tickling his feet and generally annoying him to get him up. He kept begging for more time, and I lay across the bed as well.

 

Let me interject here that most of our crew is a cuddly bunch. We all love physical contact. The night before he and my husband and I were all piled on the bed watching TV.

 

He curled up against my back, and she started making comments. He started making really sarcastic remarks back to her. "Oh, yeah (dripping with sarcasm) better watch me, my hand wander when I cuddle."

 

There were several other things that happened that were really out of place on her part. Finally she stood, and closed the blinds and said, "What happens here stays here, anything you want to do I won't tell." That was a slap in the face. I think I laughed for the shear lack of knowing how to react without loosing it. My friend was up and dressed, and torn between throwing her out, or just leaving. We ended up just leaving.

 

We both told my husband what happened. We all felt that this was insulting to everyone, but to him the most. Essentially, it was a big "F--- You" to him. GAAAAAAAAAAAH!!! I can't explain how out of place her actions were.

 

I don't want to argue. I don't' have the energy to at this point. She asked a few nights ago if she was being paranoid or if things were strange between us. I told her that yes things were strange. She wanted me to tell her what was wrong so she could fix it. I really don't want to go into all of this. She seems aware that something is amiss.

 

She acts clue less. I don't know how much is purposely ignored or just that she doesn't notice.

 

What on earth can I do with this besides going into full bore, linear bitch mode?

[moimeme]

She's got some issue or other that prevents her from understanding what's appropriate and what's not and from reading and understanding the situation around her. She's just obtuse. It's pretty hard to tell someone who doesn't get it that s/he doesn't get it. You can just fade out of her life. Don't get around to returning her calls. Be busy when she wants to see you. Whatever's wrong with her doesn't seem repairable.

[RowanRavyn]

Every so often she does something really amazing. She does great surprises. The general consensus is that she does fine as long as she is in control. She is sometimes amazingly generous. Its just that lately I wonder what the price is going to be. Our whole group is exhausted with the effort.

 

I mean my abusive ex had his moments of great thoughtfulness. I still left him. (and my kids have even said she reminds them of him) Why do I have such a softspot here?

[RowanRavyn]

Bump

[Mr Spock]

I honestly don't remember most of the beginning of our friendship. I was very heavily medicated.

 

 

That's funneeeeee. The thing is, you would have been a different person back then-and now you're not-and she's confused.

 

 

 

 

Saturday we went to the hotel to wake up one of my friends and bring him back to the apartment to hang out for the day. He was so exhausted from his flight that he let us in and flopped on the bed. She took the only chair in the room and I sat on the bed, tickling his feet and generally annoying him to get him up. He kept begging for more time, and I lay across the bed as well.

 

Let me interject here that most of our crew is a cuddly bunch. We all love physical contact. The night before he and my husband and I were all piled on the bed watching TV.

 

He curled up against my back, and she started making comments. He started making really sarcastic remarks back to her. "Oh, yeah (dripping with sarcasm) better watch me, my hand wander when I cuddle."

 

There were several other things that happened that were really out of place on her part. Finally she stood, and closed the blinds and said, "What happens here stays here, anything you want to do I won't tell." That was a slap in the face. I think I laughed for the shear lack of knowing how to react without loosing it. My friend was up and dressed, and torn between throwing her out, or just leaving. We ended up just leaving.

 

 

She may have been jealous. I think your friends are weird, but that's my opinion. (the cuddling)

 

 

I think she's extremely insecure about your friendship. She probably has HUGE issues of self worth, and feels like she's always on the outside even if that's not entirely the case. Everyone has a friend that needs special treatment. It's part of what makes YOU a good friend.

 

 

She seems like a female "cable guy" needy. I'm sure her relationship to this guy tanking didn't help. If you haven't been friends for ever, being pissed off about not being part of the wedding party is a little extreme but things like personalized thank you cards take care of ruffled feelings (and you don't have to wait until the wedding is over to give them)

 

I'm sure she felt that by being placed in a position of "honor" at your wedding would have made her look accepted in front of her ex.

 

I don't know if she was dumped, but it's NOT strange for a needy, fairly dramatical woman with HUGE issues of self worth (and self loathing) to want to hang out where her ex man can see her.

 

Kind of like "I look GOOD, see how over you I am?"

 

 

Part of being a good friend is not ditching someone when they start to fall apart. Going through your email is awful. But I understand it-it's the obessive madness of unrequited love. She hasn't been able to move on yet, obviously and it's making her bananas. Which in turn is making everyone else crazy.

 

 

It's obviously affecting every part of her life, and because of my OWN crapola I can sympathize with her.

 

 

By all means, tell her what's pissing you off. Tell her what's irritating you about her. Communicate to her what bothers you. But don't cut her off.

 

 

The stuff about spending on you relates again, to her inner self worth issues. Maybe she has always felt that she is undeserved of your friendship, since she seems to be the one who needs you more than you need her. So she includes the receipts in the bags, and spends lavishly to show to you that she cares. It's like reaching out. I think she was hurt because in her mind, she showed you how much she cares and figured that you might reciprocate by adding her to the wedding party.

 

 

She's obviously hurting inside. You're going to have to find a way to explain to her that sometimes she drives you banannas with her behaviour without making her feel like more of an outsider. You will have to do this out of human kindness regardless if you plan to keep her on as a friend.

[RowanRavyn]

Originally posted by Mr Spock

 

 

 

That's funneeeeee. The thing is, you would have been a different person back then-and now you're not-and she's confused.

 

 

Its true. I just sort of woke up with her as a "close" friend one day.

 

 

 

 

She may have been jealous. I think your friends are weird, but that's my opinion. (the cuddling)

 

We are weird, but for all of our weirdness we have very clearly defined boundaries. The whole lot of us with the exception of her. It doesn't seem to matter how clear they are made to her either. Its possible that she was jealous. Maybe more than possible.

 

 

I think she's extremely insecure about your friendship. She probably has HUGE issues of self worth, and feels like she's always on the outside even if that's not entirely the case. Everyone has a friend that needs special treatment. It's part of what makes YOU a good friend.

 

This is all hitting the nail on the head. She is never close enough, never included enough. Its a real effort to make sure she is included in everything just to keep her from being upset. To the point where I feel like I have to sneak around to spend time with my best friend. Its true, there are always those friends you handle with kidgloves. I am a good friend, but maybe I am not good enough. I don't think I can continue to carry her this way.

 

 

She seems like a female "cable guy" needy. I'm sure her relationship to this guy tanking didn't help. If you haven't been friends for ever, being pissed off about not being part of the wedding party is a little extreme but things like personalized thank you cards take care of ruffled feelings (and you don't have to wait until the wedding is over to give them)

 

I'm sure she felt that by being placed in a position of "honor" at your wedding would have made her look accepted in front of her ex.

 

The relationship was primarily online and after one face to face meeting she asked him to marry her. I have been friends with him for three years. I have known "of" (through work) her for almost two, but apparently (since I was so out of it) she and I have been "good" friends for a year). I know she is hurting, but it was her inability to hear what was being said to her, and her issues that ultimately led to the demise of the relationship.

 

Again, I think you hit the nail on the head.

I don't know if she was dumped, but it's NOT strange for a needy, fairly dramatical woman with HUGE issues of self worth (and self loathing) to want to hang out where her ex man can see her.

 

Kind of like "I look GOOD, see how over you I am?"

Again, nail on head. The sad thing was that it didn't just affect her or him and her. It affected at least seven other people. (Two of whom were my kids, who already shift between loving her and being afraid of her).

 

 

Part of being a good friend is not ditching someone when they start to fall apart. Going through your email is awful. But I understand it-it's the obessive madness of unrequited love. She hasn't been able to move on yet, obviously and it's making her bananas. Which in turn is making everyone else crazy.

 

I agree. I try very hard to be a good friend. I also pride myself on being honest with my friends. She has been falling apart for most of the time I have been fully concious of our friendship. I am just having trouble knowing where to drawlines. And I am having a hard time getting past the huge "Frell you" she sent to my new husband. We are a very supportive, giving lot of folks in our strange little circle, but we have all been running out of support to give.

 

It's obviously affecting every part of her life, and because of my OWN crapola I can sympathize with her.

 

We all have junk. I do sympathize with her, otherwise I would have written her off long ago. She has not had an easy life at all.

 

By all means, tell her what's pissing you off. Tell her what's irritating you about her. Communicate to her what bothers you. But don't cut her off.

 

I really HAVE tried doing this. She doesn't hear it. Can't or won't I am not sure. I have told her that I can't tolerate her temper around my kids. I told her a few nights ago about the $$ issues. Its like beating your head against a brick wall though.

 

 

The stuff about spending on you relates again, to her inner self worth issues. Maybe she has always felt that she is undeserved of your friendship, since she seems to be the one who needs you more than you need her. So she includes the receipts in the bags, and spends lavishly to show to you that she cares. It's like reaching out. I think she was hurt because in her mind, she showed you how much she cares and figured that you might reciprocate by adding her to the wedding party.

 

 

I really appreciate your perspective on this. It makes sense, and it smacks of manipulation to me, but I am feeling really cynical at the moment. I have made it clear since the moment of my engagement that I was not going to fall into wedding politics. I chose three of my oldest most supportive friends to stand up with me. It was a matter of simplicity, and having already asked soon after my engagement. As we heard stories of arguments relating to who was chosen to be what in a wedding, I reiterated how I hate wedding politics.

 

She's obviously hurting inside. You're going to have to find a way to explain to her that sometimes she drives you banannas with her behaviour without making her feel like more of an outsider. You will have to do this out of human kindness regardless if you plan to keep her on as a friend.

 

The thing is that sutlety doesn't work with her. ::Sigh::

 

Any ideas on how to explain it to her?

[Mr Spock]

No, not really. There just won't be a good way. She needs a best friend, a confidant-and she's picked you. Kind of like asking someone to marry you after you meet them in person, once.

 

 

What exactly have you tried explaining to her?

 

 

There is nothing that you can say that won't smell of rejection to her. And it's true, you can't carry her like that forever. It's taxing.

 

I think you really need to sit her down and ask her what she wants out of this friendship. You've already told her that things aren't alright. She's probably freaking as it seems she needs constant reassurance. And when she tells you, you need to be prepared to state what YOU want out of the friendship and how it's not being delivered the way things are right now.

 

We all have friends that don't hang out with our regular friends (usually for compatability purposes) so maybe it's time to help her set up her own friendship ring. I don't know how to do that, but if she's got hobbies encourage her to GO places and do that. Go with her a couple of times.

 

If all else fails, self preservation kicks in. Tell her that while you appreciate her friendship, you need time to focus on your own crap at the moment, and will call her when you're ready to participate with her again

 

Are you folks the only other friends she has?

[Mr Spock]

PS-being subtle about things like this is similar to telling someone "I love you, but I'm not IN love with you"

 

Like any relationship, try not to place blame with the person but their actions.

[Mr Spock]

PPS-Inability to "hear" what's being said to you is DeNile. Which we all know is a river. She has such strong hope that anything that is said to the contrary of what she wishes to happen won't get through. It's all around us.

 

 

And another thought-I'm pretty sure she didn't mean to insult your husband by making innuendo reference the hotel room, so it would be a good idea not to think of it like that.

 

If there were 4 friends in a hotel room, and the three really good ones hopped on a bed and the other one who was new to the group AND incredibly insecure about her standing with everyone there, plus a wee bit unbalanced due to poor choices in her life was left standing there and wasn't used to the others "cuddle" stuff you can imagine that person trying to fit in or figure stuff out by making comments. Of course, the comments would come off as inappropriate even if they weren't meant to be.

[RowanRavyn]

Thank you!!!

 

Your advise really rang true. I appreciate your candidness and your honesty. We are "taking a break" right now.

 

I almost feel guilty for being so relieved.