Why Women Love Marriage

[CurlyIam]

You're right, Alpha. This is why I shall ask you to refrain yourself from making sexist affirmation, or at least when you make one referring to women, add one referring to men too, just so that we know you're being impartial !

 

Hugs,

 

Curly

[alphamale]

Originally posted by RecordProducer

I just admire successful men.

...most women do.

[Pocky]

You know Alpha, considering just about every time you talk about women you've picked up or someone you have a date with you make a reference to how hot they are or how big their breasts are, you're hardly one to point out the shortcomings of women and why they are attracted to certain men.

[alphamale]

Originally posted by Pocky

You know Alpha, considering just about every time you talk about women you've picked up or someone you have a date with you make a reference to how hot they are or how big their breasts are,

so what POCKY? I usually date women I am physically attracted to. What is wrong with being honest and forthright?

[RecordProducer]

The subject here runs about women wanting men only for their money. So I, as a woman who is impressed by successful people, thought would be the most suitable to give you an explanation regarding that theory.

I historical terms, I am the woman who needs protection. The women who support their men financially have the mother-figure gene.

In this forum we came to a conclusion that all kinds of women exist so Rick was wrong.

I believe I gave you a nice note on what "gold diggers" really are. The cases like Anne Nicole Smith (who married a man who was 60 years older than her and died a year later leaving an 80-million inheritance to his widow) are lonely!

Falling in love with a successful guy is quite different from marrying his bank account!

[CurlyIam]

According to alpha's theory you're falling inlove with him "because" he's successful.

 

Breaking news: men fall inlove with successful women too!! Does THAT make them gold diggers? Jeez!

[dawn duval]

Women are just like prostitutes. They may not ask for the money up front, but for all the sex that they give their husbands, eventually their gonna send out the bill. It's like 12 cds for a penny. Eventually it'll catch up to you. You can't trust women.

 

When I divorced I gave my husband everything -- all our money, furniture, etc -- because I earn more than him and I wanted him to get off to a good start. If women are prositutes, I guess that makes me a hooker with a heart of gold.

[alphamale]

Originally posted by CurlyIam

According to alpha's theory you're falling inlove with him "because" he's successful.

Well CURLYIAM, most people fall in love with another for a host of reasons. Maybe cause of their personalty, or the remind u of a parent, or their smile, or their confidence. Whatever.

 

I usually haven't seen successful men lacking in female company.

 

Once again I reiterate for the 10 thousanth time....all other things being even, men look for beauty and youth and women look for resources. It is genetically programmed into us.

 

Most men would prefer a young beautiful woman on their arm, but few can get them and most women would prefer a rich and successful man on their arm but few can get them. That is it in a nutshell.

[CurlyIam]

Doesn't the other way around work

[CurlyIam]

as well?

[alphamale]

Originally posted by CurlyIam

Doesn't the other way around work

 

what are u talking about? you mean successful women being in high demand? I don't think so.

 

first, people don't become successful usually until their 40's and 50's. a successful woman of this age is already too old.

 

most men don't care what a woman does for a living or how much she makes. sure there are some male "golddiggers" but they are few and far between.

 

if I had a nickel for everything I've heard a successful woman bitch about how hard it is to find a worthwhile man i'd have $100. the more successful a woman is the harder it is for her to find a mate who will stick around cause even these "successful" women want a man of equal or greater status than them.

 

and let's not also forget that most men don't want a woman who is more successful than them. it does not make sense but it is usually true and many a marriage has broken up after the wife started to out-earn the husband.

[RecordProducer]

You are trying to twist our words and put some dark light on our viewpoints. What ALFA and I are claiming is that success is a turn-on for SOME women (including myself) among other attributes. Guys like nice tits and asses; it still doesn't mean it's all they care about. At least not all men.

As Alpha said, it's one of the features that is good (not bad or neutral) about men. There are other features as well. I didn't say ANY guy who is successful will attract me. But in a combination with brains, a good heart, sense of humor, high energy, displays of affection, honesty, good sex job, genuine acceptance of my children, and certain physical attributes, a man can qualify to be my Mr. Right.

Is that too much I ask for? Yes, it is. Well...that's me!

[d'Arthez]

Success is a turn on for everyone. The problem is that a lot of people define success differently. Some people define it in solely monetary terms.

 

The same is true with regards to morality; there are people we don't feel comfortable with because of differing views on matters of morality; a feeling of awkwardness, is a major turn off.

 

Brains are important, but only to the degree that there does not exist a too great discrepancy between two persons. It is hard to have a good and deep conversation, or understand jokes if one of the persons involved is a lot more intelligent than the other.

 

What is important, if you want to have a succesful relationship with an equal, that the two of you don't differ too much in the various departments you deem important.

That is why "superiority" in some departments can be a turn off.

[CurlyIam]

Can you spell Corvette? Me thinks a woman owning one has no difficulty in finding herself a man. As for the right man, that's another story!

 

Me also thinks that highly successful women DON'T look for a highly successful men 'cause they're out there busting their arses at the office anyway. Me thinks highly successful women want peace at home.

 

But that's just me.

 

RecordProducer, I was trying to enhance the fact that from A's pov all your combination there worths... zero.

It's THE successful men. Period. BTW, he finds it odd that a woman might be in cotrol in bed also, but that's just A !!!

[moimeme]

all other things being even

 

That's the great, stupid myth. All other things are never even. It's a construct that works for modelling, but not in real life, just like the myth of the 'free market'. It's bull.

[CurlyIam]

Ain't it funny how alpha said that all a woman seeks is a successful man, but when talking about what successful women seek, he started taking into consideration the traits of character of men?

 

Those other trait of character being exactly the things moi talked about considered "even"!!!

[moimeme]

Yeah. A laugh riot.

[alphamale]

Originally posted by RecordProducer

As Alpha said, it's one of the features that is good (not bad or neutral) about men. There are other features as well. I didn't say ANY guy who is successful will attract me. But in a combination with brains, a good heart, sense of humor, high energy, displays of affection, honesty, good sex job, genuine acceptance of my children, and certain physical attributes

i admire your honesty RECORDPRODUCER. and you are correct about the other features as well.

 

i admit that I like to date attractive women but only certain ones. there are many good looking females i'd love to have sex with but not a relationship with. i prefer good looking women who are also smart, funny, educated, outgoing, sexy, etc etc etc. i want it all in one package. unfortuantely it is hard to find sometimes.

[CurlyIam]

Me thinks men say they don't want a successful woman to look good. But secretely I think they dream of hooking up with one.

 

Imagine, a rich bambina who makes lots of $$ and who enjoys taking you out to dinner because you make her laugh!

[RecordProducer]

Oh, Curly, my point LEAST referred to you. It was actually addressed to all the people who think that all women care about is shopping and a guy who can provide it for them. Maybe lots of them do, but not My Majesty!

 

D'Arthez, you're right that we seek what our radars recognize as attractive and obviously the humor and intelligence are very subjective elements. Actually the example can be vice versa; you can see people on dating sites stating "I am an average down-to-earth and easy going guy looking for the same in a soul mate."

 

I don't think that our views of success vary so much. I would say that achieving a certain degree of financial wealth due to talents or professional capabilities could be called success. You can discuss Mozart's success knowing that he was a genius yet died as a poor man, but I don't think that's exactly what I am looking in a man though.

[Guest]

Rick,

 

All I can say is you must be a great guy to be in relationship with. What a lovely time any woman would have with your resentful and misogynistic outlook! Well if we ever cross paths, all I ask is...

 

 

 

 

 

Please, please keep walking!

[d'Arthez]

Originally posted by RecordProducer

D'Arthez, you're right that we seek what our radars recognize as attractive and obviously the humor and intelligence are very subjective elements. Actually the example can be vice versa; you can see people on dating sites stating "I am an average down-to-earth and easy going guy looking for the same in a soul mate."

 

I don't think that our views of success vary so much. I would say that achieving a certain degree of financial wealth due to talents or professional capabilities could be called success. You can discuss Mozart's success knowing that he was a genius yet died as a poor man, but I don't think that's exactly what I am looking in a man though.

That's a personal preference.

Success in the arts does not necessarily turn into monetary gain, and if it does, it can make the worst in a person come to the fore. I care more for artistic than monetary success, to the point that making big money with an artistic gift is irrelevant. And more about genius, than about how much money a genius can make with his or her specific gift.

 

I suspect that monetary and artistic success are not highly correlated to each other. Nor that genius is highly correlated to financial success. Mozart died a poor man, but his genius was not fully recognized during his life time. Kierkegaard died a poor man, as he spent his fortune on publishing his views on Christianity. After his death, it took decades before his genius was discovered. Part of the problem was that he wrote in a minor European language, Danish.

 

It all depends on the purpose of the genius mind. A genius in art does not care about financial gain, at least not first and foremost.

 

There are reasons why Tolstoy turned to peasant life at one point in his life, and gave up high society. Most people would look at that as being eccentric though. It was because of a spiritual need he had, if we may believe his 'Confessions.'

 

I remember reading the 'Confessions' of Rousseau, the famous French philosopher. He wrote about the intellectual shortcomings of his wife, but also explained, that she was a good match for him, as she was practical, and he was absolutely impractical.

 

But as I said before, people define success differently. Nothing wrong with that. The thing is you have to find the person who is right for you, and who thinks you are right for him / her.

[Grinning Maniac]

"Me thinks men say they don't want a successful woman to look good. But secretely I think they dream of hooking up with one. Imagine, a rich bambina who makes lots of $$ and who enjoys taking you out to dinner because you make her laugh!"

 

Methinks you thought wrong.

 

If you truly think that's a situation most men would love in the end...I'd have to ask if you're taking bets on that. I know I'd feel insecure in that situation, in one way or another. As others have mentioned, that role reversal is unsettling. It's Sadie Hawkins to the 56th power. Men have been taught from childhood to fill a certain role in society. Protectors. Providers. Leaders. That's our job. Within a few decades things have turned on their heads. Now everyone's equal and we're all the same and everyone's a winner...But I don't buy it, not entirely, and I don't think I'm alone. We're fine with women having more rights and being treated like respectable human beings...good deal. But the idea of women being 100%-the-same/interchangeable with men is a lot harder to swallow. Dating a woman far more successful than me is something that I will never go after in this life. The very thought of it is emasculating. In a relationship where the woman busts her ass all day, and the man does...well...whatever the hell he does then, he ceases to be "the man".

 

All of this begs the question...what's our job? If men are no longer the providers or protectors...and women already have the "mother" thing taken care of(we don't want it either)...what is our place in this "ideal" society where the sexes are truly equal? Sometimes I get the feeling that the purpose of feminism isn't equality as much as...er...subjugation. o_O

 

The reason that successful women can't find good men is simple. Men don't want to deal with the idea of being a rich woman's pet. Not from their own deeply engrained societal perceptions nor the jibes of their friends/peers. I don't feel the least bit sorry for these women who can't find a date...it's their own fault. That may not be a PC point of view, but tough ****. Reality isn't PC. You ladies want an exciting career and tons of money? Go for it....just don't piss and moan about being alone on the weekends with no one but Benny Franklin to keep you company. Why is this outcome a surprise to any of you? You can be millionaires now too...yippee. That doesn't just magically wipe away a large part of our identity and inner drive. Except in species where the female is larger, the male is always the dominant one and plays the role of "provider". That's how things been since the beginning of history! What do you want us to do about it? We can't just stop wanting to be masculine. That's like trying to stop gay people from being gay...how well has that been working out for the religious nuts? You can go on and on about gender roles being "archaic" and "not mattering", but they do matter. You made your bed, now sleep in it...you just won't have company, that's all.

 

They're too deep and well-rooted. You might as well try and stop people from wanting to kill other people. It isn't happening. Things can evolve and adapt moderately as time goes on, but the more things change, the more they'll stay the same. It will ALWAYS be "man hunt, woman cook". There will NEVER be a time where the majority of men will be perfectly content with staying home playing "coochy-coo" with a baby until the wife gets home grumbling about a hard day at the factory. It'll never happen. Why are you trying to turn men into titless women? Not everything has to be 100% equal. Men and women are different. I don't know about the rest of you but I learned that in preschool. Were you absent that day?

 

[endrantbeginsleep]

[CurlyIam]

GM, I totally loved your post. But I have a question to ask you. What if let's say you meet this girl, fairly independant, each one of you makes an honest pay.

 

Over... 3 or for years (I don't even say of marriage, let's presume of relationaship), your company puts everyone off the door and she decides to be a free lance. You help her be a free lance... and she becomes a success.

 

what do you do? Dump her for earning more?

 

That's exactly the situation in my family. And they are in EAstern Europe ! And I must say that although I love my father dearly, he's one of the biggest misogynists I've ever met in my life. I don't mean he doesn't respect women. HE loves women. He treats them so nicely, he's the perfect gentleman. HE just happens to think tha tthey're no good but in the kitchen - and not even there.

 

Well... when mom became famous for her little private practice he had a hard time with it. Did the same himself and guess what? He didn't have in himself to drive a business and be totally dedicated to it. He earns much much MUCH less than mom. She is the one keeping me in France, keeping my sister to MEd school, buying an apartment for her in the capital, paying for the redecoration of the house, paying for the summer house my father takes care of.

 

Dad can barely afford to pay half the bills at the place they're living in.

 

 

And I can assure you that had the situation been the other way around, mom would have long divorced my dad, because he feels the need to dominate all women around him. Too bad it doesn't work with neither of the women in his family.

 

 

Think about this situation.

 

The funny thing is that last year his heart disorder got really bad. HE's not allowed to make lots of effort or to get stressed and angry. Mom went to the best docs with him and is very happy to know he is at home, taking care from time to time of his business, taking care of the summer house and everything. They have come to terms with their role now, at the old age. IT's not THAT bad to have a woman looking out for you, GM, if she knows how NOT to throw that in your face every day!

[moimeme]

*&(%$^%$*&(*(& thing erased my first answer. Grrrrrrrrrrrr.

 

The very thought of it is emasculating. In a relationship where the woman busts her ass all day, and the man does...well...whatever the hell he does then, he ceases to be "the man".

 

That's just silly. Besides, who's saying he's not also busting his butt? Trust me on this; amount of effort has little to do with the amount of wage you earn.

 

All of this begs the question...what's our job? If men are no longer the providers or protectors...and women already have the "mother" thing taken care of(we don't want it either)...what is our place in this "ideal" society where the sexes are truly equal?

 

Father and/or companion.

 

Sometimes I get the feeling that the purpose of feminism isn't equality as much as...er...subjugation. o_O

 

That's bunk. Women want equal partners.

 

Men don't want to deal with the idea of being a rich woman's pet.

 

So, apparently, it's okay for women to be 'pets'. Got news for you: nobody is supposed to have the upper hand. That's the meaning of equality. See 'equal' in there?

 

That doesn't just magically wipe away a large part of our identity and inner drive.

 

Nobody's identity should derive from a job. Jobs are a construct of a society that went the wrong way long ago - we started valuing money over humans. You don't need to buy into that idiocy. Your identity should come from your sense of self as a decent, honest, good human being. That's what counts in this world.

 

Except in species where the female is larger, the male is always the dominant one and plays the role of "provider".

 

Sorry. Untrue. From Seahorses to Wolf Eels, there are plenty of examples of mommy being the 'provider' and daddy caring for the young. There are also matriarchal human societies where the women hold the roles of creator/provider/farmer.

 

That's how things been since the beginning of history!

 

Not so much.

 

What do you want us to do about it? We can't just stop wanting to be masculine.

 

IMHO, the epitome of masculinity is a man sufficiently secure in himself (as defined by his character rather than his job) that he's not threatened by a woman earning more than him.