There's no need to ask God for forgiveness

[Darren2013]

Because we are already forgiven in Christ of all sins past present and future. If Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures and according to the Law there is no forgiveness without the shedding of blood then all our sins have already been forgiven.

 

It has been probably 12 years since I ever asked God to forgive me for anything. Do I still sin? Yes. Everyday. All the time. But those sins were paid for and taken away at the cross.

 

I would think that thanking God for the forgiveness that was provided is walking by faith instead of asking Him to do what He has already done.

 

One of my favorite persistent sins is masturbation and sometimes I like to spice that up with lesbian porn. Each time I commit that sin I give thanks to God as the Bible says to give thanks in all things. I say Lord Jesus thank you for taking away that sin at the cross. I will never have to worry about being condemned even if I never get the victory over this sin addiction in my life. I claim by faith that the blood of Jesus was sufficient to take care of this sin.

 

The same goes for any sins. I recommend a book by Martin Zender titled "How to be free from sin while smoking a cigarette". This is a good book for people who have vices and addictions. How to be free from sin while masturbating. How to be free from sin while eating too much. How to be free from sin while stealing. How to be free from sin while not paying money you owe to medical bill collectors, etc.

[autumnnight]

Have you ever read Romans 6? It begins by saying, "what shall we say then, shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? May it never be!"

 

In other words, just because His horrible suffering and death on the cross bought our forgiveness doesn't mean we just do whatever we want and say "no biggie, I'm already forgiven."

 

God says in I John 1:9 "If we confess out sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

 

Perhaps the point is not that we have to confess to be forgiven. maybe we need to confess and ask forgiveness because we ought to be GRIEVED by our sin instead of just blowing it off because Jesus already forgave.

[Darren2013]

I do agree that sin should cause some grief because of the harm it can bring in our lives. I'm not saying I'm at peace about habitual sins in my life. There are things I would like to clean up in my life mostly so that I don't go to my grave with it on my conscience. There comes a point when we look back on our lives and contemplate what we did right and what we did wrong. But that's different than being judged by God.

[pie2]

If everyone's going to heaven, why would there be tormented ghost souls wandering around earth (as posited by you in another thread)?

 

I thought I posted a similar question in your ghost thread, but the post seemed to disappear. Creepy...my (ghost) post is probably stuck somewhere in the world of Loveshack, wandering aimlessly from thread to thread, telling others what it really thinks (but unable to make a sound). Poor post.

 

[Darren2013]

You are assuming they are in a state of torment. I don't believe they are. As I said in the other thread I think the ghost life would be fun. That's just one of my ideas of heaven. Perhaps each person gets to have their unique heavenly experience.

[pie2]

Yes, I agree that everyone's heavenly experience will be unique, in one way or another.

 

Darren, how long have you believed in these Universalism beliefs (like no need to believe in Jesus to go to heaven)?

Edited January 3, 2015 by pie2

[Darren2013]

Since September of 2007.

[Rydo]

I've never done anything I feel I need to ask forgiveness for.

[pie2]

Since September of 2007.

 

Not so long, eh? That gives me hope that you can change your mind about something! In all the posts I've read from you, I never see you engage and really waiver in your original stance. But there's hope for you yet .

 

I continue to pray that you'll have a change of heart, Darren. With God, all things are possible. ~ Matthew 19:26

 

God bless.

 

 

I've never done anything I feel I need to ask forgiveness for.

 

Give it time.

[Darren2013]

Yeah I don't believe that we have free will. I believe God controls everything. Our eternal destiny is in His hands. Even beyond that my belief in God's sovereignty is part of the reason I stopped asking women out for dates. I am coming more to the conclusion that if it is God's will for me to be in a relationship then women would be asking me out. That would be the proof I need that God is opening those doors. I'm not going to try and open up any doors of my own. It is always better when God opens doors instead of me taking the initiative. If He doesn't open those doors then I am at peace with it. I'm at peace with whatever God decides concerning my love life and my health too.

[Ronni_W]

I would think that thanking God for the forgiveness that was provided is walking by faith instead of asking Him to do what He has already done.

 

<edit> Each time I commit that sin I give thanks to God as the Bible says to give thanks in all things. I say Lord Jesus thank you for taking away that sin at the cross. I will never have to worry about being condemned even if I never get the victory over this sin addiction in my life. I claim by faith that the blood of Jesus was sufficient to take care of this sin.

What you have done here, Darren, is managed to develop a very comfortable and comforting, but quite false, religion for yourself.

 

It is true that "when we face God, forsake the consciousness of death, and sincerely ask for forgiveness, we are instantly forgiven by the Unconditional Love of God."

 

But the caveat is to "forsake the consciousness of death" (the "luciferian consciousness", the "mindset of anti-Christ", or whatever you want to call it) and, in it's place "wear the wedding garment" ("put on the mind of Christ" -- as Jesus demonstrated and taught us how to do; or "adopt the Christ Consciousness", or whatever you want to call it).

 

I don't know this 'Martin Zender' fellow you mention. But if you are willing to accept his teachings as one source for the foundation of your personal religious beliefs/philosophy, then you may be open to also look at this, just for comparison and to affirm for yourself that you've made the best decision for how you truly want to live your life:

Archangel Michael's Rosary for spiritual protection; which also addresses the lies of anti-Christ and the power elite.

 

Jesus came to consume SOME of the planetary negative karma that existed two-thousand years ago. But not any that would be created thereafter and forever through the lifespan of humanity. We are responsible for our own. Jesus demonstrated and taught us how not to create any negative karma or, at least how to keep it to a manageable (for our own soul) minimum. He also came to demonstrate victory over the consciousness of death. But he did not come to carry around your sins and karma for you.

 

Yeah I don't believe that we have free will. I believe God controls everything. ...<edit>... I am coming more to the conclusion that if it is God's will for me to be in a relationship then women would be asking me out. That would be the proof I need that God is opening those doors. I'm not going to try and open up any doors of my own

Problems with this:

 

1. God has no need to prove anything to you. YOU have something that you need to prove to God. (We all do.)
   
2. YOU are on Earth to be the open door for God ("I and my God are one") - it's not God that needs to learn, "I am one with Darren" (or Ronni, or whomever).
   
3. Rejecting your God-given free will is, yes, one way to not take any spiritual responsibility for yourself. It's less hassle, for sure, than making sincere efforts to gradually raise yourself up and "let this mind be in you, that was also in Jesus" -AND/BUT- having free will does mean that you have the God-given right to do whatever you want. You can even give your free will and it's decision-making powers over to the forces of anti-Christ by, for example, pretending that God never gave you any free will in the first place. It truly is your FREE WILL choice and decision. God is okay with whatever you choose to do (believe, think, feel, act) with the free will that He gave you...He was okay with it BEFORE He gave it to you, or He would not have given to you, because He isn't stupid. Your own Self will, however, ultimately have to face the consequences of ALL your choices and decisions. You will be called into account. Even if you don't believe or don't want to believe that.
   

You were created by God; you are a son of God. You are always held in the Unconditional Love of God, and in the Perfect Vision of Christ, for your life.

God bless.

[Darren2013]

What you have done here, Darren, is managed to develop a very comfortable and comforting, but quite false, religion for yourself.

 

It is true that "when we face God, forsake the consciousness of death, and sincerely ask for forgiveness, we are instantly forgiven by the Unconditional Love of God."

 

But the caveat is to "forsake the consciousness of death" (the "luciferian consciousness", the "mindset of anti-Christ", or whatever you want to call it) and, in it's place "wear the wedding garment" ("put on the mind of Christ" -- as Jesus demonstrated and taught us how to do; or "adopt the Christ Consciousness", or whatever you want to call it).

 

I don't know this 'Martin Zender' fellow you mention. But if you are willing to accept his teachings as one source for the foundation of your personal religious beliefs/philosophy, then you may be open to also look at this, just for comparison and to affirm for yourself that you've made the best decision for how you truly want to live your life:

Archangel Michael's Rosary for spiritual protection; which also addresses the lies of anti-Christ and the power elite.

 

Jesus came to consume SOME of the planetary negative karma that existed two-thousand years ago. But not any that would be created thereafter and forever through the lifespan of humanity. We are responsible for our own. Jesus demonstrated and taught us how not to create any negative karma or, at least how to keep it to a manageable (for our own soul) minimum. He also came to demonstrate victory over the consciousness of death. But he did not come to carry around your sins and karma for you.

 

 

Problems with this:

 

1. God has no need to prove anything to you. YOU have something that you need to prove to God. (We all do.)
   
2. YOU are on Earth to be the open door for God ("I and my God are one") - it's not God that needs to learn, "I am one with Darren" (or Ronni, or whomever).
   
3. Rejecting your God-given free will is, yes, one way to not take any spiritual responsibility for yourself. It's less hassle, for sure, than making sincere efforts to gradually raise yourself up and "let this mind be in you, that was also in Jesus" -AND/BUT- having free will does mean that you have the God-given right to do whatever you want. You can even give your free will and it's decision-making powers over to the forces of anti-Christ by, for example, pretending that God never gave you any free will in the first place. It truly is your FREE WILL choice and decision. God is okay with whatever you choose to do (believe, think, feel, act) with the free will that He gave you...He was okay with it BEFORE He gave it to you, or He would not have given to you, because He isn't stupid. Your own Self will, however, ultimately have to face the consequences of ALL your choices and decisions. You will be called into account. Even if you don't believe or don't want to believe that.
   

You were created by God; you are a son of God. You are always held in the Unconditional Love of God, and in the Perfect Vision of Christ, for your life.

God bless.

 

On the contrary I have nothing to prove to God. If He is all knowing then there's nothing for me to prove about anything. God is the one who has something to prove to me if He really wants me to believe something. Only someone who has something to hide would expect unquestioning acceptance of whatever they tell you.

 

As far as free will goes there are numerous examples in the Bible that negate human free will.

 

When God created a wife for Adam there is nothing in the Genesis account that indicates that Adam had a free will to accept a wife or remain single. Nowhere in the story does it say God made an offer to Adam to have a wife but left the decision up to him. God didn't consult with Adam and say "I'm offering you a wife. Do you want her? Nope. God took charge of things and put Adam into a deep sleep and did the process of making a woman fit for him. God determined it wasn't good for Adam to be alone.

 

What about the Virgin Mary who is the Mother of Christ. God did not give her a choice as to whether she would be the mother of the Savior of the world. God didn't offer or consult with her and ask for her vote in whether or not she wanted to do that. God chose her for the virgin birth and that was the end of it. Didn't depend on her free will.

 

The story of Jonah is another one where he supposedly had no free will. If God was really okay with Jonah choosing not to go to Ninevah to preach then He would have left Jonah alone and said "Fine I'll send someone else". Instead God backed him into a corner by sending a fish to swallow him up and eventually Jonah surrendered to the call of God to go to Ninevah.

 

Perhaps to a point it may appear as though we have free will but like it or not there are other forces at work influencing our wills at all times. Just because it appears we are free to choose doesn't mean we really are. That's just what God allows us to think and for His own purposes that He does this. God is big enough to devise all kinds of incentives for us to choose in align with His will just like He did with Jonah. It is not so simple as we have free will and God is just going to sit back and be okay with whatever we choose. That didn't happen with Jonah and I don't think God has changed since that time.

 

God hasn't changed the way He blessed Adam with a spouse. I believe it is the same today. If God wants me to have a wife then it is going to happen. Will it happen against my will? Yes and no. Again God is powerful enough to transform my will to line up with His will for my life. There's alot of married couples who had no desire to marry before they met their current spouse but when they first laid eyes on their current spouse some new desire for marriage awoke in them and it was unexpected and unplanned for. That could happen to any of us in the future. People change their minds about all kinds of things when given the right incentives, etc.

 

We did not have free will in terms of being born. We did not ask to be born. It took an outside source deciding to bring us into this world. We don't have free will in terms of choosing which planet to be born on or who our parents would be or what kind of body makeup we would have. God didn't consult with any creature before deciding how many stars to put in the sky or where we would like the sun to be or the moon. I mean if it is true that God gave humans dominion over the earth and turned it over to our control then I would think He would have given us the freedom to choose the position of the planet in relation to the sun, how fast we want the earth to rotate and what time the sun rises and sets and what color the sky is.

 

In the final analysis quite honestly the doctrine of free will breeds human arrogance and portrays humans as having greater power than God. Because it doesn't seem like free will applies to God and like He was forced to create us. It is arrogant to think that somehow God just makes an offer and leaves puny human will as the final word that prevails.

[Robert Z]

Perhaps the point is not that we have to confess to be forgiven. maybe we need to confess and ask forgiveness because we ought to be GRIEVED by our sin instead of just blowing it off because Jesus already forgave.

 

And since no one can ever be perfect, everyone is supposed to lead a life filled with guilt. Welcome to Christianity!

 

 

Be sad and feel guilty because God loves you.

[Eddy Street]

So we may do as we please, since it's all been already forgiven? They never told me that in chuuch, awesome!

[Robert Z]

So we may do as we please, since it's all been already forgiven? They never told me that in chuuch, awesome!

 

 

Well, I don't know. Are we supposed to be happy or are we meant to suffer and live a life filled with guilt?

 

 

Let's see... a loving god. A loving god who made us in his image yet imperfect, so we sin and are then expected to feel guilty for it. And if we don't we will suffer eternal damnation!!! So be miserable.

 

You do see the logical trap right? It is all bullsht.

[Darren2013]

Yeah I can't help it that I have a sexual appetite. God went against my free will and gave me sexual desires. Only a sadistic being would give me sexual desires and then expect me to just ignore those desires in order to please Him. Masturbation is part of the expression of my human nature. Life is hard enough as it is and any religion worth having is suppose to bring comfort and relief in one's life and not make it more difficult by demanding ridiculous things such as giving up masturbation when that is my way of satisfying my sexual appetite. If God had a problem with it then He should have made me asexual.

[autumnnight]

Yeah I can't help it that I have a sexual appetite. God went against my free will and gave me sexual desires. Only a sadistic being would give me sexual desires and then expect me to just ignore those desires in order to please Him. Masturbation is part of the expression of my human nature. Life is hard enough as it is and any religion worth having is suppose to bring comfort and relief in one's life and not make it more difficult by demanding ridiculous things such as giving up masturbation when that is my way of satisfying my sexual appetite. If God had a problem with it then He should have made me asexual.

 

Wow, way to take personal responsibility. By the way, there IS NO direct Biblical command against masturbation. People like to use that whole "spilling the seed" thing, but that was not about masturbation. It was about disobeying God's command about fathering a child. It's like those people who think "do not be drunk with wine" means having a glass of wine is a sin.

[Ronni_W]

If God had a problem with it then He should have made me asexual.

Are you SURE that God did NOT make you asexual, with an entirely different, yet still spiritual, mechanism for procreating?

Are you SURE that your sexual desires are GOD-given, and not a consequence of something out of Lucifer's actions?

[Darren2013]

God created sex. I am sure of that. If He didn't then we would not even be here having this conversation. If there is no sexual desire then there's no reason to have sex and therefore there would be no procreation.

[Darren2013]

Wow, way to take personal responsibility. By the way, there IS NO direct Biblical command against masturbation. People like to use that whole "spilling the seed" thing, but that was not about masturbation. It was about disobeying God's command about fathering a child. It's like those people who think "do not be drunk with wine" means having a glass of wine is a sin.

 

 

It doesn't seem like God takes any personal responsibility for anything according to traditional Christianity. Increased power means increased responsibility. A true leader sets the example in taking responsibility first before expecting anyone else to.

 

As far as masturbation not being a sin in the Bible? Well that depends on your own interpretation according to whatever denomination or flavor of Christianity you follow because someone else can come along and give good reasons why masturbation is sinful. It seems like anything that feels good to do is sinful. Anything that constitutes having fun and enjoying pleasure of any kind must be wrong. Only a sadistic God would put a delicious cake in front of my face and tell me that it is wrong to eat it. But that's how religion tries to make life more difficult than it already is. Anything that feels good is wrong in some way.

[pie2]

Anything that constitutes having fun and enjoying pleasure of any kind must be wrong. Only a sadistic God would put a delicious cake in front of my face and tell me that it is wrong to eat it. But that's how religion tries to make life more difficult than it already is. Anything that feels good is wrong in some way.

 

I just saw

on the Power of Forgiveness.

 

If the power of forgiveness can move a cold-hearted man such as a notorious serial killer, I think forgiveness can have an impact on just about anybody. Even you, OP.

 

I keep praying that you're one day able to come to terms with who you are on earth (a child of God), that you are a broken human being (as we all are), and that God's forgiveness is one of the sweetest things on earth (I hope you'll one day get to experience it OP!).

 

Not all things that are fun and feel good are wrong, as I'm sure you're already aware (despite what you post). But the things that separate us from God are destructive in our lives, so I hope you do eventually learn that asking forgiveness for those things brings us closer to God again. And that is a very healing, sweet thing!

 

Blessings to you OP, and to anyone else reading this. Hope you can all feel the love of God. The same love that Gary Ridgway might have felt that day in court from the very person who could have hated him most.

[Levite]

I just saw

on the Power of Forgiveness.

 

If the power of forgiveness can move a cold-hearted man such as a notorious serial killer, I think forgiveness can have an impact on just about anybody. Even you, OP.

 

I keep praying that you're one day able to come to terms with who you are on earth (a child of God), that you are a broken human being (as we all are), and that God's forgiveness is one of the sweetest things on earth (I hope you'll one day get to experience it OP!).

 

Not all things that are fun and feel good are wrong, as I'm sure you're already aware (despite what you post). But the things that separate us from God are destructive in our lives, so I hope you do eventually learn that asking forgiveness for those things brings us closer to God again. And that is a very healing, sweet thing!

 

Blessings to you OP, and to anyone else reading this. Hope you can all feel the love of God. The same love that Gary Ridgway might have felt that day in court from the very person who could have hated him most.

 

I've seen that video. Very moving. I think that all those people who said they wanted him to rot in hell and suffer have just as much a murderous heart as he does. I think when this murderer looked into the eyes of those condemning him, he was emotionless because he saw himself in them. But the old man made him realize that he couldn't do what he did (namely forgive and not have a murderous heart). So he started crying because, for once, he felt guilty--not because of what he's done, but because he realized there is someone higher than him in godliness.

[Darren2013]

We are all entitled to our opinions as far as who deserves heaven and who doesn't deserve to go to heaven but at the end of the day when it comes down to the final word only God gets to decide who goes to heaven. As much as anyone may think Hitler doesn't deserve to be in heaven we don't get to decide who goes to heaven because heaven is God's home.

 

If He decides to let everybody in then who are we to have a problem with that? Maybe God sees something in Hitler that is worth redeeming that our carnal minds cannot see. Most people would have a problem with the idea of Hitler in heaven but the way we feel now isn't necessarily the same way we will feel when we leave these earthly bodies behind. On this side of eternity we are not thinking with 100% sober mind.

 

But if I own a club and I decide not to charge anyone an admission fee to get in then that would be my perogative as an owner. Others may think that I should charge an admission fee but their opinion isn't going to be taken into account when I make decisions as a club owner about charging or not charging. So people will always have their opinions about who should go to heaven and who shouldn't but there's no evidence that God is asking for our vote in the matter. While you think certain people don't deserve to go to heaven I'm willing to bet there are other people who think you shouldn't get to heaven for whatever reason. There are people even on this message board who think I shouldn't get to go and that's fine that they think that way and I don't pay them any mind because they are not God.

 

The Scriptures say something about God having mercy and compassion on whomever He wills to have mercy and compassion on. Which seems to suggest that God will likely have mercy and compassion on people that we don't expect or think He should have mercy and compassion on.

 

But if heaven is only for people who live up to a certain level of goodness in conduct and works then they would not need God's mercy. Mercy is given to those who have done nothing to deserve it.

[pie2]

I've seen that video. Very moving. I think that all those people who said they wanted him to rot in hell and suffer have just as much a murderous heart as he does. I think when this murderer looked into the eyes of those condemning him, he was emotionless because he saw himself in them. But the old man made him realize that he couldn't do what he did (namely forgive and not have a murderous heart). So he started crying because, for once, he felt guilty--not because of what he's done, but because he realized there is someone higher than him in godliness.

 

Very insightful post, Levite .

 

Sadly, I have to agree with you that the hateful responses of some don't rise above the situation like the man who was able to forgive; there was so much dignity in his response. And yes, wishing someone were in hell is an extremely strong statement void of compassion, imo (exactly as the killer acted, like you said).

 

I do believe in the mental illness aspect of a sociopath, and that something is miswired in most cases. But I agree that there is an unfortunately high level of arrogance (or "godliness" as you say) in the mindset of a serial killer (not that I really know, but my inexpert opinion). There often seems to be an inability to empathize, often showing up after a childhood marked by a certain level of struggle.

 

But no matter how cold-hearted someone may seem, I think this video shows that there may always be room for even the darkest soul to comprehend compassion and forgiveness, and in turn repent of their behavior. For this reason, I have trouble with the death penalty. Just for the small chance that a life is changed for good (somehow, someway).

[Gloria25]

I'm going to heck in a hand-basket, ok? Now and then I like send a shout-out to my dead sister cuz I always said we'd be both in there.

 

But, I still pray for God's mercy though on my soul, I may reach heaven eventually (like in a million earth years), but I believe God will make sure I pay for my sins.

 

There was I time I'd tell people to go to heck and they would get offended. I don't know why, I mean, just like jumping out a plane, the reality of paying for my sins probably will not hit me till Judgment Day, but I've accepted the fact that I have to pay for my sins.

 

So, if someone tells me to go to heck, I'd probably smile and be like "see ya there too!" I wouldn't be offended. Now if they are like "you are going to heck" as if they have God's direct fax number and He told them I was going to heck, I'd probably flip them off cuz they are not God and do not have His fax number.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Gloria25