Robert Z Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 If we ignore the old testament and interpretations of the new testament by the authors of the Bible, what would be the guidelines for a good life based solely on the words of Christ? Link to post Share on other sites
TheFinalWord Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 If we ignore the old testament and interpretations of the new testament by the authors of the Bible, what would be the guidelines for a good life based solely on the words of Christ? One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” 2 Link to post Share on other sites
TheFinalWord Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Not totally sure what you are asking by requesting omission of the OT and the writings of the apostles. But I think you would be hard pressed to find any words directly from Christ that are not grounded in the Law and Prophets (what we call the OT). Correct me if I'm wrong Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Well, one of the first thing I would think of would be when Jesus said "I did not come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it." Which would lead me right back to the truth that ALL of God's Word is important. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Robert Z Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 Well, one of the first thing I would think of would be when Jesus said "I did not come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it." Which would lead me right back to the truth that ALL of God's Word is important. In that case it is a sin to shave, right? Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 In that case it is a sin to shave, right? Only if I am a Nazarite. However, there are different types of laws in the OT. I have a friend who likes to throw out that whole "so I guess you don't mix your fabrics" thing around, not understanding that "Thou Shalt not Kill" is not quite the same thing as "thou shalt not wear wool and linen" lol Jesus IS the Word. There is nothing in God's Word that Jesus is going to disagree with, including the writings of Paul. ALL Scripture is God-breathed, and is profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness. (II Tim. 3:16). And it's settled forever in Heaven (Psa. 119:89) 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Robert Z Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 (edited) Only if I am a Nazarite. However, there are different types of laws in the OT. I have a friend who likes to throw out that whole "so I guess you don't mix your fabrics" thing around, not understanding that "Thou Shalt not Kill" is not quite the same thing as "thou shalt not wear wool and linen" lol Unless Jesus made a clear distinction, either the OT applies or it doesn't. You can brush it off based on faith but just recognize that isn't an argument. That is just believing whatever you want to believe. Jesus IS the Word. There is nothing in God's Word that Jesus is going to disagree with, including the writings of Paul. ALL Scripture is God-breathed, and is profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness. (II Tim. 3:16). And it's settled forever in Heaven (Psa. 119:89) blah blah blah, That is a faith argument. I am interested in facts. And I will tell you my motives. I am curious about how much of people's faith is pretty much random and is ultimately based on nothing more than what they want to believe. Edited January 4, 2015 by Robert Z Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Actually, if one bothers to do an exegetical study of Scripture, there ARE distinctions in the types of Law. For example, the sacrifices prescribed in the OT were a foreshadowing of Jesus' sacrifice, so THEY are not practiced anymore. However, the 10 commandments are still relevant. The dietary restrictions are thought by many to have been more for separation of the Jews from the Gentiles as well as for health than for morality, and, at any rate, in Acts Peter is told that nothing that enters the body is unclean, etc. The person who wants to say "if you shave and wear wool and linen then you are just picking and choosing" is doing so from a place of intentional ignorance and really has no interest in understand the Bible or those who believe. It's just more of the same condescension about people who believe in God. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
TheFinalWord Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Unless Jesus made a clear distinction, either the OT applies or it doesn't. You can brush it off based on faith but just recognize that isn't an argument. That is just believing whatever you want to believe. Robert there are doctrines, established by the apostles, that explain what is and is not central to the faith. Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.” The apostles and elders met to consider this question. After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.” The apostles were given authority by Christ to explicate doctrine, so how you are saying they're words cannot be considered is setting up a massive strawman. In other words, it sounds like you are the one cherry picking to build a strawman. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 To love The Lord your God with all your heart and all your strength. All sin comes from failing to do this--either intentionally or unintentionally. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
pie2 Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 If we ignore the old testament and interpretations of the new testament by the authors of the Bible, what would be the guidelines for a good life based solely on the words of Christ? Unless Jesus made a clear distinction, either the OT applies or it doesn't. You can brush it off based on faith but just recognize that isn't an argument. That is just believing whatever you want to believe. And I will tell you my motives. I am curious about how much of people's faith is pretty much random and is ultimately based on nothing more than what they want to believe. Robert...leading much! The whole OP asks us to "ignore the OT as well as interpretations of the NT". And with that you want to find evidence that people just believe in random stuff they want to believe in? This thread isn't making much sense. Some people definitely fit the scriptures to their lifestyle, and make the rules up as they go. The majority though (imo) are just trying to love God and make it through another day of this challenging life the best they can. Most people recognize they fall infinitely short of guidelines we've been given. But, we keep on trying whatever possible to do the right thing (i.e. love God with our whole hearts, etc). If you really want to see if people are basing their entire belief in God on "what they want to believe" I suggest going and hanging out at church (Christian of course ), preferably for a long time...like over many months! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Unless Jesus made a clear distinction, either the OT applies or it doesn't. You can brush it off based on faith but just recognize that isn't an argument. That is just believing whatever you want to believe. I would venture to say that you have faith in a lot of things without even realizing it:p 2 Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 The majority though (imo) are just trying to love God and make it through another day of this challenging life the best they can. Most people recognize they fall infinitely short of guidelines we've been given. But, we keep on trying whatever possible to do the right thing (i.e. love God with our whole hearts, etc). You said a mouthful here Pie...no kidding! Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I would venture to say that you have faith in a lot of things without even realizing it:p I've always thought there's hope for RobertZ. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I've always thought there's hope for RobertZ. Me too because Robert explores and is a wonderful person to discuss things with as most LS members. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Me too because Robert explores and is a wonderful person to discuss things with as most LS members. Exactly. So many people will literally argue against something and poo-poo it before they spend even 1 minute investigating. These are the people who honestly scare me. RobertZ seems like he will at least entertain an idea and check it out. Aristotle said that is the hallmark of an enlightened mind. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 If we ignore the old testament and interpretations of the new testament by the authors of the Bible, what would be the guidelines for a good life based solely on the words of Christ? This is where I'm lost on some issues Robert, meaning the 'transition' from the O/T to N/T. I'm not sure how far you want to take this thread and if some of my issues aren't thread related as far as you're concerned. Not sure if this was mentioned by another post, although Jesus kingdom is not of this world and believers are not of this world, but in it. I understand what this means, but not sure how other mandates/issues apply. For believers it's not about 'having a good life', it's about following Jesus which the world may not consider 'a good life'. Following Jesus requires letting go of 'self' ...dying to self hurts, BUT in the long run leads to a much better 'life' here. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 (edited) This is where I'm lost on some issues Robert, meaning the 'transition' from the O/T to N/T. I'm not sure how far you want to take this thread and if some of my issues aren't thread related as far as you're concerned. Not sure if this was mentioned by another post, although Jesus kingdom is not of this world and believers are not of this world, but in it. I understand what this means, but not sure how other mandates/issues apply. For believers it's not about 'having a good life', it's about following Jesus which the world may not consider 'a good life'. Following Jesus requires letting go of 'self' ...dying to self hurts, BUT in the long run leads to a much better 'life' here. Blasphemy, pureinheart, blasphemy! You mean Jesus didn't die so we can drive Bentleys? That's it. I'm converting to Islam. I'm gonna make war on everyone and TAKE what's mine, by golly. Edited January 4, 2015 by M30USA 1 Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Blasphemy, pureinheart, blasphemy! You mean Jesus didn't die so we can drive Bentleys? That's it. I'm converting to Islam. I'm gonna make war on everyone and TAKE what's mine, by golly. Well, to hear Joel O'Steen tell it....... 2 Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Well, to hear Joel O'Steen tell it....... Name it and claim it! Blab it and grab it! Deal it and steal it! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BC1980 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Name it and claim it! This. It just grates on my nerves when people say they are "claiming it." Whatever they are claiming. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 This. It just grates on my nerves when people say they are "claiming it." Whatever they are claiming. I like what the Christian comedian used to say: Jesus said he came so that we can have life more abundantly. He also said in this life we would have tribulation. Put THOSE two sentences together lol! But I guess the above wouldn't get the dollars rolling in as quickly. Gotta make that "deposit in Heaven" 1 Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 This. It just grates on my nerves when people say they are "claiming it." Whatever they are claiming. Claiming the desires of the flesh. Of course they won't say that. Link to post Share on other sites
pie2 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 So many people will literally argue against UFOs and poo-poo it before they spend even 1 minute investigating. These are the people who honestly scare me. RobertZ seems like he will at least entertain a UFO idea and check it out. Fixed that for ya. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Danda Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I always go the impression that the Old Testament God and the New Testament God are two different gods. Their personalities are really different, too. I don't understand why both are merged into the same religion. Especially since Jesus was basically coming down to say yall are way off track here's a new set of rules. I've always figured Christians just followed the teachings of Jesus, like whatever stories involved him and whatever he said, but nothing else. Because I mean Revelations relates back to the OT but Jesus didn't have anything to do with Revelations. People just sort of stuck it on the end of the book. Link to post Share on other sites
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