Random Apology.

[Satu]

We humans are not very good at living in the present. We get hung up on the past, and invest too much in the future.

 

The question is:

 

How do I feel - in this place, with this person, in this moment?

 

Thats all we ever have.

 

We should squeeze all the happiness out of it that we can.

 

Here I am.

[BeholdtheMan]

So I could just as easily say that you are giving affair sex too much power. OR " hey...whatever keeps you awake at night. "

 

Not really...

 

I have zero tolerance for cheating. I wouldn't stay up at night because I'd simply rid myself of a cheater, both mentally and physically

[sidney2718]

Yep. We had that conversation that night too. She said she felt like I would never trust her again 100% I told her that one of the unfortunate side effects of an affair is that it opens ones eyes to how rampant it really is, and to all of the many reasons affairs sometimes happen to otherwise happy couples.

 

I told her that I don't worry about her, and hope that she'd never do that to us again, but I stopped short of telling her that I have 100% trust.

 

I told her that all we can do is be 100% honest with each other about what we need an want, and be 100% committed to giving the other what we can and go from there.

 

We decided that were going to have weekly talks like we used to back in MC. Nothung too heavy. Just gonna walk the dog together and go over any thoughts that came up throughout the week. Triggers, regrets, sex, whatever. Hopefully we will also talk about the good things that happened that week as well. Because it's SO easy to gloss over how much fun we actually have together.

 

I think you've done the right thing. More power to you, fella!

[sidney2718]

 

Thank you very much. I appreciate that. She is a good woman and a great mother. She's got some issues to contend with, but this whole process has forced her to deal with them and she is working hard to redeem herself.

 

Oddly, I think she wants to redeem herself in her own eyes, as much as mine. And I like that.

 

As hurt as I was, I also recognize that it cannot be easy for a waward spouse who really wants to fix things. They have to tolerate a lot and keep their heads up.

 

Yes! They are human and need to be treated with some decency. A WS can't be expected to grovel year in and year out until all their self-respect is gone.

 

A BS that wants revenge shouldn't try to reconcile. It isn't fair to either of them.

 

But I've noticed that the successful reconciliations have mainly happened to folks who could treat each other with decency in spite of all the hurt and the pain.

[sidney2718]

at first I was 'this is great'. but after 5 years of R (or am I mistaken) it seems odd she would STILL be saying the 'bold'. it almost if she is still beating herself up for her mistake. maybe I am overreacting, it appears she has NOT moved forward in R. fine she is doing the right things but not thinking the right things.

 

 

BTW I would not have these concerns in year 1 or 2.

 

I think that many WS's never forgive themselves. They are in pain just as much as the BS is. But it is a different kind of pain because they recognize that it is self-inflicted.

 

So I'm not surprised that it still comes out after five years. The WS has as much trouble with a reconciliation as does the BS.

[beatcuff]

Keep in mind..the ones that do not work out are generally very public.

 

The ones who do work it out and regain happiness are generally private.

 

If you met my wife and I in 10 years, you'd never know we had survived it. Nobody does.

 

I bet you know more R'd couples that you think.

 

 

I agree. for R to work it has to be kept 'in house'. BS often say you need to run around and tell everyone like light and cockroaches. but the truth is that destroys what little is left in the M: WS dropped the bomb but the BS let it burn.

 

 

OP --- it appears you have taken measured responses to your situation and your M (and I assume life) is better for it. I am not so confident I could do the same.

[jm2013]

I agree. for R to work it has to be kept 'in house'. BS often say you need to run around and tell everyone like light and cockroaches. but the truth is that destroys what little is left in the M: WS dropped the bomb but the BS let it burn.

 

 

OP --- it appears you have taken measured responses to your situation and your M (and I assume life) is better for it. I am not so confident I could do the same.

 

I think it's a catch 22. If you privatize the matte the WS isn't really held accountable. When they get a public shaming it piles on the guilt to get the message clear their actions were despicable. I publicized my wife's affair because truthfully, I did not think I was going to be with her. I wanted to let everybody know what kind of person she was. Looking back at things though I wish I would have held off from telling our neighbors about it.

[TrustedthenBusted]

I think it's a catch 22. If you privatize the matte the WS isn't really held accountable. When they get a public shaming it piles on the guilt to get the message clear their actions were despicable. I publicized my wife's affair because truthfully, I did not think I was going to be with her. I wanted to let everybody know what kind of person she was. Looking back at things though I wish I would have held off from telling our neighbors about it.

 

This ^^^^

 

As for being held accountable - I don't think my wife needs to be held accountable in this regard to anyone but herself, and me. I've had friends tell me about their spouses infidelity, and honestly all it did was screw everything up for everyone. It was none of my business, but now I had to choose sides, suffer through uncomfortable social situations, and then FORGIVE when the BS forgave, after siding with them initially. All when in reality.... I didn't really care because I had my own fish to fry. Just messy. But when a friend needs the support, ya gotta be there.

 

Anyway, at first I wanted to keep it all a secret because I was ashamed. Then I wanted to go all public with it because I was angry. Then I wanted to keep it all a secret again because it's nobody's business but ours. My thinking was if we divorced, I'd let people know why, but if we remained together, no sense pissing in our own well.

 

In the end, the only person she told is her mother, and she regrets that, as she feels we are always being "monitored" when she visits.

 

I'm actually glad she told her mother, but that's another thread.

[badkarma2013]

Yep. Because you don't know what you got til it's gone....unless you get a second chance. : )

 

I strongly disagree...When your WW made the CHOICE ..not mistake..choice..to Lie.Decieve and Betray..YOU and have sex with the OM..YOU LOST whatever you thought had at that moment...Your marriage at that moment died..whether you will admit it or not....you may have a PLAN B marriage now but your Plan A marriage is dead and gone..

 

That what R is Plan B..... What i think you are failing to realize is that for MANY BHs here infidelity is and was a DEALBREAKER...All of us have a dealbreaker and that was mine as well....

 

My college rooomate caught his WW with OM as well as other proof...They are in their 2ND year of R..His WW is is doing everything in her power to help him heal.....Doing the WW script to a tee...HE TRIGGERS still..has self esteem and huge doubts (insercurites) with himself and WW 2 YEARS later...

I expect he will NEVER recover from this and do you have a guess as to why??

 

No matter what she does ..no matter how good of a W NOW she is....She can NEVER EVER unfu@k the OM ..EVER....

 

Good sex ..bad sex...2 times or 200 times...My WW made a choice ....Her mistake was thinking she could come home after a 8month- 12 month FUC&FESt with her Boss/OM cry and say im sorry and do some pentance and that would be it..She and the OM learned a HARD lesson...

 

I exposed him to his wife and sued their company....they were both fired ....His BW destroyed him in his D....He gave me a flash drive with pics of her with him on it...(in revenge for me outing him to his BW...

 

Her family begged me for proof...she had lead them to believe i was having the A...They called a me a GODDA%N liar .....i warned them they did not want to see the proof...as it may break them....They insisted ...and we all got what we asked for...yes, it did break them ( as it did me)...but they were warned....

 

Now i never trigger ,,cry or have any issues...she does not exist to me...

Edited January 7, 2015 by badkarma2013

[Selfish]

Mistakes are often choices we make out of poor judgment. They are choices. Errors in judgement. If the OP, as the BH, wants to view his wife's affair as a mistake it is neither wrong or delusional to do so. And nobody really can disagree with him in any valid way.

 

Sometimes people say it was a mistake to marry someone. They chose to marry that person and we don't usually argue it then. I don't think calling an affair a mistake is wrong. I think saying "it was just a mistake" or "we all make mistakes" is a minimizing tactic. I know my husband wouldn't be too impressed if I didn't view my affair as a mistake. A huge, massive screw up (mistake) on my part. Not the same as turning right instead of left.

[jbrent890]

Mistakes are often choices we make out of poor judgment. They are choices. Errors in judgement. If the OP, as the BH, wants to view his wife's affair as a mistake it is neither wrong or delusional to do so. And nobody really can disagree with him in any valid way.

 

Sometimes people say it was a mistake to marry someone. They chose to marry that person and we don't usually argue it then. I don't think calling an affair a mistake is wrong. I think saying "it was just a mistake" or "we all make mistakes" is a minimizing tactic. I know my husband wouldn't be too impressed if I didn't view my affair as a mistake. A huge, massive screw up (mistake) on my part. Not the same as turning right instead of left.

 

You bring up some interesting points. However, I do agree with Badkarma on this one. To me, a mistake is an undesirable outcome of an unintentional action i.e. getting off on the wrong exit on the freeway, washing a red sock with the whites, circling the wrong answer on a test. Everybody that cheats makes a conscious effort to do so. They might not know what the consequences would be if found out, but they do know that they are participating in an action that would hurt their partner. I feel to a certain extent that the word mistake is overly used in reference to cheating. More so, I feel that for some people, it's just a way to minimize their behavior.

[badkarma2013]

Mistakes are often choices we make out of poor judgment. They are choices. Errors in judgement. If the OP, as the BH, wants to view his wife's affair as a mistake it is neither wrong or delusional to do so. And nobody really can disagree with him in any valid way.

 

Sometimes people say it was a mistake to marry someone. They chose to marry that person and we don't usually argue it then. I don't think calling an affair a mistake is wrong. I think saying "it was just a mistake" or "we all make mistakes" is a minimizing tactic. I know my husband wouldn't be too impressed if I didn't view my affair as a mistake. A huge, massive screw up (mistake) on my part. Not the same as turning right instead of left.

 

YES calling a A a mistake is wrong..IT WAS A CHOICE..Most of the time the WS

passed Dozens if not Hundreds of Red Flags ...from the time they kissed the AP to the time the first had sex...They made a choice to let it continue and to lie and deceive their BS ....They Chose to let it happen or made it happen....

 

No Mistake...A bad choice granted but still Their Choice! Putting on a blue sock and a brown sock...Thats a mistake not ,infidelity Thats was your choice...

Edited January 7, 2015 by badkarma2013

[Selfish]

YES calling a A a mistake is wrong..IT WAS A CHOICE..Most of the time the WS

passed Dozens if not Hundreds of Red Flags ...from the time they kissed the AP to the time the first had sex...They made a choice to let it continue and to lie and deceive their BS ....They Chose to let it happen or made it happen....

 

No Mistake...A bad choice granted but still Their Choice! Putting on a blue sock and a brown sock...Thats a mistake not ,infidelity Thats was your choice...

 

There is no reason with irrational people. Why did I even try?

 

But I'll bite

mis·take (mĭ-stāk′)

n.

1. An error or fault we almost all agree an affair fits this, right?resulting from defective judgmentHow many of us know waywards who judgement is quite defective?deficient knowledge,umm yes, that also fits many WSor carelessness.and bam

 

Like it or not it is quite immature and irrational to argue with the OP on this one. There is no valid or rational argument that defends attacking the OP for using the word as he did not use it incorrectly. You don't like the word personally? Fair enough, don't use it. But you have no reason to attack the OP for using it.

Edited January 7, 2015 by Selfish

[Selfish]

having an affair will always be a mistake. I would never say it is a food choice coming out of good judgement. It is an error coming out of poor judgement.

 

there are many choices we make in life that others will see as mistakes. Like taking back a cheater or getting married to a flirt. The fact a consious descision is made doesn't make something not a mistake.

[TrustedthenBusted]

I strongly disagree...When your WW made the CHOICE ..not mistake..choice..to Lie.Decieve and Betray..YOU and have sex with the OM..YOU LOST whatever you thought had at that moment...Your marriage at that moment died..whether you will admit it or not....you may have a PLAN B marriage now but your Plan A marriage is dead and gone..

 

That what R is Plan B..... What i think you are failing to realize is that for MANY BHs here infidelity is and was a DEALBREAKER...All of us have a dealbreaker and that was mine as well....

 

My college rooomate caught his WW with OM as well as other proof...They are in their 2ND year of R..His WW is is doing everything in her power to help him heal.....Doing the WW script to a tee...HE TRIGGERS still..has self esteem and huge doubts (insercurites) with himself and WW 2 YEARS later...

I expect he will NEVER recover from this and do you have a guess as to why??

 

No matter what she does ..no matter how good of a W NOW she is....She can NEVER EVER unfu@k the OM ..EVER....

 

Good sex ..bad sex...2 times or 200 times...My WW made a choice ....Her mistake was thinking she could come home after a 8month- 12 month FUC&FESt with her Boss/OM cry and say im sorry and do some pentance and that would be it..She and the OM learned a HARD lesson...

 

I exposed him to his wife and sued their company....they were both fired ....His BW destroyed him in his D....He gave me a flash drive with pics of her with him on it...(in revenge for me outing him to his BW...

 

Her family begged me for proof...she had lead them to believe i was having the A...They called a me a GODDA%N liar .....i warned them they did not want to see the proof...as it may break them....They insisted ...and we all got what we asked for...yes, it did break them ( as it did me)...but they were warned....

 

Now i never trigger ,,cry or have any issues...she does not exist to me...

 

 

Nobody denies that her affair was a choice. She acknowledges that it was a really horrible, selfish and stupid choice that she made without ever really thinking the consequences through until she was forced to.

 

And I agree with you that the marriage I had was lost. But you know what I say? I say good riddance to it. Because although it LOOKED good, it was two young people who didn't really know how to communicate their needs to one another. It was two people who kept things under the rug, and let resentments build up. It was two people who found it easier to discuss important topics in the kitchen with their girlfriends or in the garage with their buddies rather than with each other. There was a lot about Plan A that lead to its demise. And in my heart of hearts, I also know that in time, it could have been me who strayed. I was certainly tempted a time or two.

 

So I don't think what we have now is Plan B. I think it's Plan A v2.0 It's the same two people but with major bug fixes and updates security in place. It's plan A with a huge friggen Firewall around it.

 

I think going out and starting over with someone knew who HASN'T been through what we have would be Plan B.

 

Now that said, I don't expect you to understand how I feel. 2 years in, I was right where your college buddy is now, and I'm 5 years past wherever you were when you ended your marriage.

 

Time really is a factor in how we come to view things, and when a WS puts in that much time showing me love and respect and remorse and proving she's worth another shot, it means something.

 

Claiming people never change is ridiculous. Anyone who says that need only open their High School yearbook and have a good laugh.

[badkarma2013]

having an affair will always be a mistake. I would never say it is a food choice coming out of good judgement. It is an error coming out of poor judgement.

 

there are many choices we make in life that others will see as mistakes. Like taking back a cheater or getting married to a flirt. The fact a consious descision is made doesn't make something not a mistake.

******************************************************************

Taking a cheater back....marrying a flirt...You Knew what they were when you made that decision .........

 

To make allow oneself to become a WS requires one to lie,deceive and betray ones spouse and at anytime they could stop it..BUT THEY CHOSE not to...Most of the time it is because they LIKED it and didnt want to stop...They all pass many STOP signs along the way from the lunch to having sex....They Chose not to stop but continue...you could have NO at anytime...but you CHOSE to engage (Not you personally) but one in that position ...CHOOSES to let it continue..just like they chose to lie and deceive their spouse...

 

Again a mistake is picking the wrong tie for my suit is a mistake....Having an A would be my Choice ...not a mistake....

[autumnnight]

T&B, you are a gem of a man and your wife is lucky to have you.

[Satu]

Its nice to be nice.

[sidney2718]

Nobody denies that her affair was a choice. She acknowledges that it was a really horrible, selfish and stupid choice that she made without ever really thinking the consequences through until she was forced to.

 

And I agree with you that the marriage I had was lost. But you know what I say? I say good riddance to it. Because although it LOOKED good, it was two young people who didn't really know how to communicate their needs to one another. It was two people who kept things under the rug, and let resentments build up. It was two people who found it easier to discuss important topics in the kitchen with their girlfriends or in the garage with their buddies rather than with each other. There was a lot about Plan A that lead to its demise. And in my heart of hearts, I also know that in time, it could have been me who strayed. I was certainly tempted a time or two.

 

So I don't think what we have now is Plan B. I think it's Plan A v2.0 It's the same two people but with major bug fixes and updates security in place. It's plan A with a huge friggen Firewall around it.

 

I think going out and starting over with someone knew who HASN'T been through what we have would be Plan B.

 

Now that said, I don't expect you to understand how I feel. 2 years in, I was right where your college buddy is now, and I'm 5 years past wherever you were when you ended your marriage.

 

Time really is a factor in how we come to view things, and when a WS puts in that much time showing me love and respect and remorse and proving she's worth another shot, it means something.

 

Claiming people never change is ridiculous. Anyone who says that need only open their High School yearbook and have a good laugh.

 

I think that you are very wise. Humans are complicated. Marriage is one of the most complex social things that we do. Trying to reduce marital problems to a formula almost never works because each situation is different.

 

We say "cheaters always lie." But clearly this isn't true. They are capable of lying; we are all capable of lying.

 

We say "if she cheated, trust is gone." What trust? After knowing anything about the real world is there any married person who is SURE that their spouse won't cheat? Are any of us really sure that WE would not cheat.

 

An affair changes a marriage. Even a person who turns down a friend offering sex has their marriage changed by it. For one thing, I doubt that the person will ever forget it.

 

Another is "reconciliations never work". This one is dead wrong. They often work. We have to learn not to judge by what we see here, but to realize instead that a couple really working on a reconciliation is very likely NOT posting here.

 

And on and on and on.

 

TTB, I say again that you are very wise. Use LS to vent. Use it to gather opinions to expand your view of things. But in the end make up your own mind. Don't be pushed by the crowd.

[Selfish]

******************************************************************

Taking a cheater back....marrying a flirt...You Knew what they were when you made that decision .........

 

To make allow oneself to become a WS requires one to lie,deceive and betray ones spouse and at anytime they could stop it..BUT THEY CHOSE not to...Most of the time it is because they LIKED it and didnt want to stop...They all pass many STOP signs along the way from the lunch to having sex....They Chose not to stop but continue...you could have NO at anytime...but you CHOSE to engage (Not you personally) but one in that position ...CHOOSES to let it continue..just like they chose to lie and deceive their spouse...

 

Again a mistake is picking the wrong tie for my suit is a mistake....Having an A would be my Choice ...not a mistake....

 

Now your just being silly and using rediclous examples. Picking a tie? How is that even a mistake. Mistakes are errors in judgement and carry consequences. The small mistakes might avoid consequences or be hardly noticed. The larger cause irreparable damage. A series of mistakes can also occur and be a part of the whole picture. I know a man who left his wife and three kids. He did so because he wanted to be single again and when the road had got rough instead of following the advice of his friends and family to seek MC/IC and keep his vows he chose not to. Every step up the way he made choices that took him away from his family. He was told he was making the biggest mistake of his life. His wife was told he would regret his choices and one day see it for the mistake it was. He didn't see it as a mistake at the time. Not one person got all whiney and said "that's not a mistake, it's a choice." Because everyone saw it for what it was. A huge error in his judgement.

 

In the end he realized he had made a mistake. When reality came crashing down on him. It was too late by then. His mistake had a very high price. Not comparable to some stupid tie analogy, but still very much a mistake.

 

So you see. Mistakes will alwaysbe choices. Sometimes innocent choices. Sometimes deliberate choices.

 

But maybe your mistake is you think mistake = accident.

[Satu]

From my diary:

 

 

The heart wants to connect.

 

The mind wants a reason to connect.

 

The ego wants to rule without connection.

[Red123]

Nobody denies that her affair was a choice. She acknowledges that it was a really horrible, selfish and stupid choice that she made without ever really thinking the consequences through until she was forced to.

 

And I agree with you that the marriage I had was lost. But you know what I say? I say good riddance to it. Because although it LOOKED good, it was two young people who didn't really know how to communicate their needs to one another. It was two people who kept things under the rug, and let resentments build up. It was two people who found it easier to discuss important topics in the kitchen with their girlfriends or in the garage with their buddies rather than with each other. There was a lot about Plan A that lead to its demise. And in my heart of hearts, I also know that in time, it could have been me who strayed. I was certainly tempted a time or two.

 

So I don't think what we have now is Plan B. I think it's Plan A v2.0 It's the same two people but with major bug fixes and updates security in place. It's plan A with a huge friggen Firewall around it.

 

I think going out and starting over with someone knew who HASN'T been through what we have would be Plan B.

 

Now that said, I don't expect you to understand how I feel. 2 years in, I was right where your college buddy is now, and I'm 5 years past wherever you were when you ended your marriage.

 

Time really is a factor in how we come to view things, and when a WS puts in that much time showing me love and respect and remorse and proving she's worth another shot, it means something.

 

Claiming people never change is ridiculous. Anyone who says that need only open their High School yearbook and have a good laugh.

 

I really relate to this post. I am a couple of months over a year from Dday but I feel this way. My H and were only 18 when we got together and didn't have the maturity or communication to really appreciate each other. I too feel that now 18 years later we are able to have a good fulfilling relationship. People can change and I don't believe in writing people off because the make bad choices. Yes having an A is a terrible choice and incredibly hurtful, but there are people who show true remorse and make their M work. I think your wife showed courage saying that to you. I often think that if I was a WS I would crumble under the pressure of R. Seeing the pain, the anger and having to know how I hurt the other person while still trying to have a relationship. It's a lot, before I get the backlash, yes I know they caused it, but it doesn't make it an easy place to be.

[fellini]

For what it's worth, in terms of linguistical issues, we can distinguish between a mistake and an error easily:

 

A mistake is when you could/should/have the capacity to know you are wrong. "My Bad"

An error is when you do not/have not learned to distinguish whether you are being wrong or not. "I had no idea"

 

A mistake then is always a choice, conscious or not, to do something that upon reflection, or having it pointed out to you, was in fact, wrong.

 

This of course in Mathematics and in Language learning are very important, because a student cannot be held responsible for making errors if they have not learned the rule. Mistakes need to be pointed out. Mistakes have consequences. Errors should not.

 

An affair is almost certainly the result of a series of choices. They are also the result (OFTEN) of a series of mistakes. They are not necessarily related.

 

My WS had an affair with a professional colleague.

 

She walked and talked with him those days she stayed to have lunch at the faculty. She sat with him at the table during lunch, and they continued to talk.

 

Now any other day, when my WS was not staying to have lunch, other woman walked and talked with this man and did the very same thing.

 

If this man has no interest in them, obviously, they are not making a mistake walking and talking with him each day. My wife, on the other hand, did what? Made a mistake or an error in judgement? or neither. Her decisions were not intrinsically errors or mistakes. Until of course, she began to look forward to these lunches, and to expand them and to encourage him and to accept his compliments... now she is making a mistake. But accepting a compliment is not a mistake, it might be an error. It is a mistake because of how you are interpreting these choices, not always the choices themselves. Of course it is possible to make choices knowing full well you are making the wrong choices: you are making a mistake thinking you can get away with this.

 

In the real world of forums and day to day talking, I cannot fathom why some here are so ardently refusing to accept that affairs are the culmination of a set of obvious / not so obvious mistakes, a set of errors (especially in judgement - a wrongly, insufficiently, or unlearned rule about borders, for example), and of course CHOICES. Okay, so if you do not want to accept that your WS made mistakes, why make the mistake of imposing your values on another poster in LS?

 

That said, however, there is wisdom in the infidelity phrase that after a string of wrong choices, it's no longer called choices, its called a decision.

Edited January 8, 2015 by fellini

[fellini]

I see so much in your story that is what I am currently facing. But I have yet to reach DDAY year 2. So your posts are giving me an interesting glimpse of a potential future me. I thank you for that.

 

Im worried about this plan B talk though. What if you marriage wasn't so bad? What if you could have had your garage sessions AND a wonderful connected marriage. What if the marriage was Plan A but someone came along and got your WS thinking Plan A++?

 

You see I think it's all relative. Someone's Plan A is another man's plan C. Or someone's plan D is another man's plan A.

 

For me, the only way to think in these terms, and here I'm looking for reflection, because, as I said, I am only past year 1.5... I don't think, at some basic level, it matters what the marriage "looked like" (or more likely "how we reinvented who we think it looked like post DDAY" (I can tell you there are some serious selective memories of a marriage post DDAY and I don't think they always help) because what DIED for me is ME. I DIED and what died with me was an unconditional trust and love for my WS.

 

So I'm not looking for a plan A or B, that is what she was thinking about testing the waters of a single OM. Im trying to discover how to be in love with a person without the unconditional part, because that is the part that cost me the most.

 

People behave more affectionately in times of crises. I don't need a marriage that is an implosion of all of my emotional resources into the "two of us" so that we become "one". There is nothing wrong with me having a great time with the guys, and her with the gals. There is nothing wrong with having strong healthy connections with the outside world. The trick is to have both.

 

Ill take the implosion - it's just you and me babe - when the apocalypse comes and we are at the end of the world and alone and need only to have each other to have and to hold unto death. Marriage is hard. But it does not have to suffocate us to get there.

 

When there is a shadow of a third in the relationship of two, this is when Plan A and Plan B emerge. And in my case it has no redeeming value. It's counter productive to me. I've never been big on making my journey following a map, and I cannot see how I am going to save a marriage doing that either.

 

Maybe I am condemned to believing in Plan A Plan B. Maybe these are merely metaphors for what we call "unconditional love".

 

Nobody denies that her affair was a choice. She acknowledges that it was a really horrible, selfish and stupid choice that she made without ever really thinking the consequences through until she was forced to.

 

And I agree with you that the marriage I had was lost. But you know what I say? I say good riddance to it. Because although it LOOKED good, it was two young people who didn't really know how to communicate their needs to one another. It was two people who kept things under the rug, and let resentments build up. It was two people who found it easier to discuss important topics in the kitchen with their girlfriends or in the garage with their buddies rather than with each other. There was a lot about Plan A that lead to its demise. And in my heart of hearts, I also know that in time, it could have been me who strayed. I was certainly tempted a time or two.

 

So I don't think what we have now is Plan B. I think it's Plan A v2.0 It's the same two people but with major bug fixes and updates security in place. It's plan A with a huge friggen Firewall around it.

 

I think going out and starting over with someone knew who HASN'T been through what we have would be Plan B.

 

Now that said, I don't expect you to understand how I feel. 2 years in, I was right where your college buddy is now, and I'm 5 years past wherever you were when you ended your marriage.

 

Time really is a factor in how we come to view things, and when a WS puts in that much time showing me love and respect and remorse and proving she's worth another shot, it means something.

 

Claiming people never change is ridiculous. Anyone who says that need only open their High School yearbook and have a good laugh.

[jbrent890]

I see so much in your story that is what I am currently facing. But I have yet to reach DDAY year 2. So your posts are giving me an interesting glimpse of a potential future me. I thank you for that.

 

Im worried about this plan B talk though. What if you marriage wasn't so bad? What if you could have had your garage sessions AND a wonderful connected marriage. What if the marriage was Plan A but someone came along and got your WS thinking Plan A++?

 

You see I think it's all relative. Someone's Plan A is another man's plan C. Or someone's plan D is another man's plan A.

 

For me, the only way to think in these terms, and here I'm looking for reflection, because, as I said, I am only past year 1.5... I don't think, at some basic level, it matters what the marriage "looked like" (or more likely "how we reinvented who we think it looked like post DDAY" (I can tell you there are some serious selective memories of a marriage post DDAY and I don't think they always help) because what DIED for me is ME. I DIED and what died with me was an unconditional trust and love for my WS.

 

So I'm not looking for a plan A or B, that is what she was thinking about testing the waters of a single OM. Im trying to discover how to be in love with a person without the unconditional part, because that is the part that cost me the most.

 

People behave more affectionately in times of crises. I don't need a marriage that is an implosion of all of my emotional resources into the "two of us" so that we become "one". There is nothing wrong with me having a great time with the guys, and her with the gals. There is nothing wrong with having strong healthy connections with the outside world. The trick is to have both.

 

Ill take the implosion - it's just you and me babe - when the apocalypse comes and we are at the end of the world and alone and need only to have each other to have and to hold unto death. Marriage is hard. But it does not have to suffocate us to get there.

 

When there is a shadow of a third in the relationship of two, this is when Plan A and Plan B emerge. And in my case it has no redeeming value. It's counter productive to me. I've never been big on making my journey following a map, and I cannot see how I am going to save a marriage doing that either.

 

Maybe I am condemned to believing in Plan A Plan B. Maybe these are merely metaphors for what we call "unconditional love".

 

I see why you get so much praise on this site, you write thoughtful posts. I think the issues for a lot of people is that they think that plan B is always worse than plan A. Some people will say that they feel that their marriages got stronger after infedility was revealed, so plan B is not always that bad. In plan A, people lacked the skills and maturity needed to maintain that marriage. Thankfully for some, those things are acquired after infedility is revealed. Sadly, I believe those marriages are the minority though. I think we can all agree that unless we just married a horrible human being, nobody goes into marriage thinking that that they would have to deal with cheating at some point. In order for plan B to turn out better than plan A, you have to have a truly remorseful WS and an understanding BS.