Current approach to science is wrong and undermines the authority of the word of God

[M30USA]

Facetious? Don't you use your silly big words on me!

 

But on a serious note, the earth has been around. It has been around for a very, very, very long time. I think the inability to accept evolution has to do with our inability to imagine very long periods of time. 4.5 billion years sounds like a typical day at the office. In reality, however, it's a hell of a lot of time for all sorts of weird **** to happen.

 

The Bible makes no claim as to the age of earth. It begins with the remaking of earth and creation of Adam. The earth could have been there millions of years prior for all we know.

[TheFinalWord]

The Bible was written by mortal men who were filled with (ie, inspired by) the Holy Spirit, who is God.

 

People are technically correct when they say the Bible was not written by God. However, it is the TRUE writings of people who KNEW God and saw him work. The Bible is not the primary agent of salvation--therefore it's not "the Word of God". The Word of God is only Jesus Christ. If the Bible were the Word of God, then any and all experts who study it would know who Christ is and would accept Him. Clearly this wasn't the case with the Scribes in Jesus' day who, in knowing Scripture better than anyone, couldn't recognize who Christ was. Christ said to them, "You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me..." (John 5).

 

The Holy Spirit (God) is living. The Bible, while true, is not living. But anyone who disregards the Scriptures, even though they are not technically The Word of God, is rejecting TRUE testimony ABOUT The Word of God, which is dangerous.

 

Hopefully everybody sees my point. So in this regard I agree with the previous poster about needing to "adapt". I say, sure, as long as it's through the Holy Spirit and consistent with the written testimony of Scripture.

 

Amen. Paul summarized it all up. God could have revealed Himself through science or any other medium of human wisdom (which God gave man). He chose to do it though preaching, specifically because it is a foolish method in the world's opinion.

 

For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.

 

Why would God do this? Paul explains (interesting he quotes from Genesis 1):

 

For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of God’s glory displayed in the face of Christ. But we have this treasure in jars of clay (human body) to show that this all-surpassing power is from God and not from us.

 

What I am saying will only make sense to the spiritual man, because it is a spiritually discerned truth.

 

We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. No, we declare God’s wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words. The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit

[M30USA]

TFW,

 

Did you hear about the manuscript that was discovered containing 1 Corinthians 1? It contains some missing phrases and reads as follows:

 

"Jews demand signs and Greeks demand wisdom [and Americans demand scientific proof], but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Greeks [and disproven by science according to Americans], but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God."

 

 

Kidding, if anyone couldn't tell.

Edited January 8, 2015 by M30USA

[Eddy Street]

lol...ok, aka "not nice"

 

 

 

Oh, 4.5 billion (give or take a few) for life to become what we know today. I much prefer the teenager theory. The truth is, "science" (actually, scientists) has had some major fails; you start to take things with a grain of salt.

 

What I wish were taught in schools is that 1. We don't know it all. 2. We can keep learning and growing all the time (as long as God gives us the ability). And, 3. What REALLY matters, at the end of the day, isn't how we got here, it's what we're going to do with the brief amount of time we're given on earth (like be kind, help others, etc).

 

Wow, ancient Greece. I will read no more. You got me. Science officially sucks. I am disillusioned, de-stupefied, de-orbited, I officially declare myself a believer, take me to church, the more rural and dust-bowl stricken, the better!

 

Actually science got a lot of things right, predictions are made all the time, pretty astounding ones too. You know, Einstein said a cat would shed it's fur slower near a black hole, and just yesterday Matthew McConaughey took a cat aboard the endurance and proved Einstein right! And science never claims to be always right, it's a search for truth and a quest to understand the way things work on the most fundamental levels. It is there to build a better world for our children and their children and not to mention, ourselves (we're selfish, after all). But because a few people who were scientists made silly mistakes, none of that matters. Forget science, in fact, forget Newton, he was about as ugly as Owen Wilson. I never liked any of his movies anyway, especially Meet the ****ers. Worst movie ever. And how about that model movie he did... Zoolander I think it was called. WTF?

 

Very pertinent examples too. I must say.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Eddy Street

[Eddy Street]

The Bible makes no claim as to the age of earth. It begins with the remaking of earth and creation of Adam. The earth could have been there millions of years prior for all we know.

 

Then the bible is what I hinted at in a previous post of mine. A series of metaphors, sometimes unintentional, for scientific and psychological observations made at the time.

[Eddy Street]

And pie, earth is the center of the universe, so that's not something science got wrong. Space is expanding uniformly, so ever instance of space is the center of the universe.

 

Think of the universe as the 3D analogue of a 2D surface of a sphere with an increasing radius of time. Every point on the surface of that sphere is the center. So the earth is the center of the universe! YAY!!

[M30USA]

Then the bible is what I hinted at in a previous post of mine. A series of metaphors, sometimes unintentional, for scientific and psychological observations made at the time.

 

That's a faulty logical conclusion. The two are unrelated and independent aspects.

[OpenBook]

Are you aware that evolution is losing its following? There is currently a shift into the concept of "panspermia".

 

This!!!

 

Creation - Zero

Evolution - Hairless Big-Eyed Alien beings

 

They're kind of handsome aren't they?

 

One day a teenager was passing through and spit into one of these ponds and out sprung life.

 

I am disillusioned, de-stupefied, de-orbited, I officially declare myself a believer, take me to church, the more rural and dust-bowl stricken, the better!

 

Well I've been trying to insert a cogent response into this thread of weighty matters - but I just couldn't get it done. Thanks for the giggles!! :D:D:D

Edited January 8, 2015 by OpenBook

[todreaminblue]

It's just my observation that religion can be taken as series of metaphors, sometimes unintentional, for real world phenomenon. For example, religion tells us that the world was created and I agree. It was created, but it was created by the confluence of natural forces: gravity, dark-energy, electromagnetism, the strong and weak forces, chemical interaction and the "force" of evolution, etc... all this working together over eons (13.7 billion years is the current estimate) created us, and no doubt billions upon billions of other advanced beings scattered throughout the universe. Far from making us less special than we would be if we were created by god over the course of a week, I think the reality of things makes us more special.

 

What is gospel to me is that science is looking for answers and trying to understand the universe. I would assume that a religious person would be excited about this, because we are using what God gave us (our ability to explore and reason) to understand and perhaps FIND God. But since religion is still in the stone age, this isn't the case.

 

 

What is gospel to me is that science is looking for answers and trying to understand the universe. I would assume that a religious person would be excited about this, because we are using what God gave us (our ability to explore and reason) to understand and perhaps FIND God.

 

I love this what i have quoted above......from you eddy.....sublime

Eddy do you find it funny that something that is considered a truth is called gospel...why is this......

 

why is the true definition of gospel this......

 

the teachings of Jesus and the apostles; the Christian revelation.

 

its funny how the word gospel is commonly used for truth or personal belief system.....i do think god gave us all a different intelligence for a specific purpose....i love forensic sciences....i love science in general ...its simply awesome....i dislike the misuse of anything...religion science justice.......they are all meant for betterment.......to help people....especially religion..its meant to save us free us from mortality to liberate the afflicted...to raise up the needy and to bolster the timid........with hope eddy.......hope and faith........and i do believe you can love science and be christian......or buddhist or islamic....which ever you are......or for that matter are nota follower of ....doesnt mean you cant appreciate4 awesome scientific discoveries......like the progress made in communicable diseases and cures for...for just one example........the progress made in aids and afflictions that caused imminent death....

 

 

the reality of what things makes humans special eddy...

.I think the reality of things makes us more special.

...like the students you have in your class that give you a hard time...the women you dont respect if they have slept with many whom you have stated rather calculatingly..... have an inner ugliness........what makes them as humans special..decode them for me.....with scientific fact.....or as you put it gospel truths to you..........deb Edited January 8, 2015 by todreaminblue

[umirano]

Christianity and science are not mutually exclusive,

 

Of course they are. the bible (by some believed to be the "truth"), claims that giving birth without being inseminated by a human male is possible for the human female.

 

The bible also claims that it was for at least one human possible to walk on water.

 

There are a ton of scientifically unsubstantiated claims in the bible.

 

And dialectics like "we don't know how long god's days actually were" won't cut it for several hundred claims that are just fictional and have never ever been reproduced.

[umirano]

Speaking of conflict between christianity and science, today 372 years ago Galileo Galilei died. 10 years before his death he barely managed to trade the pyre against a lifelong confinement, for confronting the church with observations that anyone with a low-quality binocular could make today.

 

Some posts in this thread are way off - even without this context - I have to say.

[Eddy Street]

That's a faulty logical conclusion. The two are unrelated and independent aspects.

 

Semantics. If by evolution you mean Darwin's force of natural selection operating on already existing earth-life, then yes, you are right. But you need to look at the bigger picture and see that the universe existed before life formed on earth. Then evolution is a much broader term that describes how all the complex chemical reactions that led to life happened, interacted and how they eventually led to life. And even before that, how all the chemical elements that made any of this possible in the first place formed deep within stars (stellar nucleogenesis). So it is a fully logical conclusion.

[Eddy Street]

I love this what i have quoted above......from you eddy.....sublime

Eddy do you find it funny that something that is considered a truth is called gospel...why is this......

 

why is the true definition of gospel this......

 

 

 

its funny how the word gospel is commonly used for truth or personal belief system.....i do think god gave us all a different intelligence for a specific purpose....i love forensic sciences....i love science in general ...its simply awesome....i dislike the misuse of anything...religion science justice.......they are all meant for betterment.......to help people....especially religion..its meant to save us free us from mortality to liberate the afflicted...to raise up the needy and to bolster the timid........with hope eddy.......hope and faith........and i do believe you can love science and be christian......or buddhist or islamic....which ever you are......or for that matter are nota follower of ....doesnt mean you cant appreciate4 awesome scientific discoveries......like the progress made in communicable diseases and cures for...for just one example........the progress made in aids and afflictions that caused imminent death....

 

 

the reality of what things makes humans special eddy......like the students you have in your class that give you a hard time...the women you dont respect if they have slept with many whom you have stated rather calculatingly..... have an inner ugliness........what makes them as humans special..decode them for me.....with scientific fact.....or as you put it gospel truths to you..........deb

 

I'm sorry I missed your post earlier. Here's what I have to say to it.

 

The universe is not as simple as religion would have you believe. Science doesn't claim to know absolute truth or have command over everything like religion does. Religion not only does this, but it does it in a horribly limited, human way.

 

Now to answer your question about why humans are special. Because it took so long to get here, and almost inconceivably unlikely events had to unfold for me to be born. 1/infinity. That's deep. Religion (as we're discussing, I have to reiterate) would have me believe that everything is predetermined and humanly small, and that my life was certain to happen. In fact, it states that I have always lived and will always continue to live, either in a pit of fire or as myself in a never changing, boring environment, with all my current limitations and flaws.

 

It's best to just reiterate what I initially said, that belief systems need to evolve if they want to be taken seriously by an increasingly scientific society.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Eddy Street

[todreaminblue]

I'm sorry I missed your post earlier. Here's what I have to say to it.

 

The universe is not as simple as religion would have you believe. Science doesn't claim to know absolute truth or have command over everything like religion does. Religion not only does this, but it does it in a horribly limited, human way.

 

Now to answer your question about why humans are special. Because it took so long to get here, and almost inconceivably unlikely events had to unfold for me to be born. 1/infinity. That's deep. Religion (as we're discussing, I have to reiterate) would have me believe that everything is predetermined and humanly small, and that my life was certain to happen. In fact, it states that I have always lived and will always continue to live, either in a pit of fire or as myself in a never changing, boring environment, with all my current limitations and flaws.

 

It's best to just reiterate what I initially said, that belief systems need to evolve if they want to be taken seriously by an increasingly scientific society.

 

 

i read somewhere eddy under amazing facts....that we have fifty per cent dna of a banana...now...to me that imposes the ideal of an intelligent life force......in creation of said banana and a human that is actually fifty per cent like a banana......

 

again i love science....i also love the fact that god i believe has an infinite sense of humor in creation.......one word squid.....

 

which also have high intelligence.....like humans.....

w

 

what science has failed with across a millenia is to explain one single cell.....

 

a single cell that decided with an infinite amount of intelligence what to become.......they cannot replicate or duplicate or clone that one single cell that time and all eternity created from above......

 

science must progress..open those finite possibilities of understanding in an intellectual capacity........columbus actually thought the earth was pear shaped....and often science makes pear shaped conclusions from banana shaped logic...science journals change and update for a reason...because new understanding is reached...what i like about religion and the omnipotence of an all knowing god is......it has survived the ages ...intact.....the words deliver the same message the same reasoning .....more importantly the same understanding and logic it always has....that one cell......is a building block...that god chuckled over .......as he created a world full of wonder....hope...possibility....and most of all...love eddy....simply love....the love that places the good book full of comfort...for world weary travellers in every hotel ....every hotel for there has to be hope wherever you travel whatever path you are on...or time adn all eternity and scientific progress...all becomes a little pointless to every individual....................deb.......

Edited January 8, 2015 by todreaminblue

[Eddy Street]

what science has failed with across a millenia is to explain one single cell.....

 

a single cell that decided with an infinite amount of intelligence what to become.......

 

Mutations. I'm not a geneticist so I can't give you an explanation of how it works but that's all that's needed to explain the shift from unicellular to multicellular life.

[todreaminblue]

Mutations. I'm not a geneticist so I can't give you an explanation of how it works but that's all that's needed to explain the shift from unicellular to multicellular life.

 

still doesnt explain the intelligence......and mutations can be recreated...so can single cells into multi cells...........the creation of artificial intelligence...says it all....true intelligence cannot be created or evolved in a petri dish....because it was intelligently created from an all knowing god......deb

Edited January 9, 2015 by todreaminblue

[Eddy Street]

still doesnt explain the intelligence......and mutations can be recreated...so can single cells into multi cells...........the creation of artificial intelligence...says it all....true intelligence cannot be created or evolved in a petri dish....because it was intelligently created from an all knowing god......deb

 

It's difficult to know what a person means by intelligence. I think all life is intelligent, even microbes have a form of intelligence. High intelligence is by no means exclusive to humans by the way, it's part of a continuum that peaks with us, includes elephants, pigs, other primates, dogs, dolphins, etc... near the top and goes through everything from pythons to spiders to microbes. Furthermore, it's something we are starting to understand with brain imaging. It's a predictable system. Therefore, there is nothing special about intelligence as most of us define it. It's just part of a continuum and a product of evolutionary architecture. And our human intelligence is by no means set in stone. Numerous mutations threaten it. Some scientists even go as far as to say that the average IQ of ancient Greeks was far higher than the average IQ of today, despite our vast knowledge. Natural selection is no longer at play because of civilization, we're no longer fending for ourselves... so instead of getting removed from the gene pool, dumb people (who are dumb because of newly acquired genetic mutations) procreate, and usually more so than smart folks who lack said mutations.

 

We've acquired more knowledge but ironically lost most of our capacity to use it in a creative way... So where is your god now?

Edited January 9, 2015 by Eddy Street

[todreaminblue]

It's difficult to know what a person means by intelligence. I think all life is intelligent, even microbes have a form of intelligence. High intelligence is by no means exclusive to humans by the way, it's part of a continuum that peaks with us, includes elephants, pigs, other primates, dogs, dolphins, etc... near the top and goes through everything from pythons to spiders to microbes. Furthermore, it's something we are starting to understand with brain imaging. It's a predictable system. Therefore, there is nothing special about intelligence as most of us define it. It's just part of a continuum and a product of evolutionary architecture. And our human intelligence is by no means set in stone. Numerous mutations threaten it. Some scientists even go as far as to say that the average IQ of ancient Greeks was far higher than the average IQ of today, despite our vast knowledge. Natural selection is no longer at play because of civilization, we're no longer fending for ourselves... so instead of getting removed from the gene pool, dumb people (who are dumb because of newly acquired genetic mutations) procreate, and usually more so than smart folks who lack said mutations.

 

We've acquired more knowledge but ironically lost most of our capacity to use it in a creative way... So where is your god now?

 

my god is not exclusively mine......he is for all.......sinners and saints alike.....he is everywhere in everything all at once...you might not believe in him but he believes in you...thats why you have your unique and special gifts eddy.....

 

intelligence involves making decisions.....so far ....science cannot explain why a single cell decided to become a primate or a banana......and to know exactly how to become that fave fruit o' mine over a primate......or become an egg....or a become chicken..almost feels like you need a magic wand to wave....and a glossy hat to pull answers from...its wonderful to me to think about things like this......till i get a migraine then i take a scientific made remedy called panadol.....;0)....which god gave us pharmaceutical intelligence in the form of banana shaped pharmacists in white lab coats......just right now an epiphany formed......i just figured out i have a craving to eat a banana.....funny that....do you know that apes peel a banana the easiest way unlike most of us who peel it from the wrong end....i have to make a concerted effort to peel the banana the right way....instead of what feels right for me to do ......truth is often stranger than fiction.....and what feels right often is completely wrong...what feels harder to understand and believe passionately enough to follow..... is often right...........deb

[OpenBook]

We've acquired more knowledge but ironically lost most of our capacity to use it in a creative way...

 

Did you miss the recent comet landing we made? Our discovery of methane on Mars? CERN's investigation into dark matter, Higgs boson and other great mysteries of the universe via their Large Hadron Collider in Switzerland?

 

So where is your god now?

 

Looking down upon you... watching you... and loving you - more than you could ever imagine - because you my dear Eddy are His masterpiece. :bunny:

[Eddy Street]

Did you miss the recent comet landing we made? Our discovery of methane on Mars? CERN's investigation into dark matter, Higgs boson and other great mysteries of the universe via their Large Hadron Collider in Switzerland?

 

No, I followed that very closely. It was pretty awesome. I hope she gets more sun and wakes up like they say. But the fact is that much of these modern discoveries are made by collective minds rather than by individual geniuses.

 

But that doesn't prove anything, what does is probably more manifest in our Jersey-Shore obsessed culture.

 

Thank you for the adorable bunnies

Edited January 9, 2015 by Eddy Street

[todreaminblue]

No, I followed that very closely. It was pretty awesome. I hope she gets more sun and wakes up like they say. But the fact is that much of these discoveries are made by collective minds rather by individual geniuses.

 

That doesn't prove anything, what does is probably more apparent in our Pauly-D loving culture.

 

 

it isnt off topic at all......you are insightful eddy street..inspiring even..hard to know when you are joking though......its seamless from serious thought to joking though.....i am guessing the teen spit thingie was a joke...or maybe subconsciously it wasnt ....because you seem a little disillusioned to teen spirit .....like pauly d culture sarcasm....scientifically speaking....teens do suck sometimes....but then so do we...theres brilliant up and coming minds....have faith in that.....some of them are christian minds....some of them are not christian.................deb

[pie2]

Wow, ancient Greece. I will read no more. You got me. Science officially sucks. I am disillusioned, de-stupefied, de-orbited, I officially declare myself a believer, take me to church, the more rural and dust-bowl stricken, the better!

 

That was easy.

 

Actually science got a lot of things right, predictions are made all the time, pretty astounding ones too. You know, Einstein said a cat would shed it's fur slower near a black hole, and just yesterday Matthew McConaughey took a cat aboard the endurance and proved Einstein right! And science never claims to be always right, it's a search for truth and a quest to understand the way things work on the most fundamental levels. It is there to build a better world for our children and their children and not to mention, ourselves (we're selfish, after all). But because a few people who were scientists made silly mistakes, none of that matters. Forget science...

Why do so many people refer to science as if it were an intelligent being? "Science predicts", "Science searches for truth", "Science never claims to be right". "Science" doesn't actively do anything. It's a tool. People use scientific methods to observe things. People are doing the action. Science is just a way to gather/classify knowledge.

 

IMO, this common habit is a testament to the inflated worth we've given "science". It's become a powerful, active agent in our culture. Not that improving our society isn't a great thing (it's all for the children ). Let's just remember to keep the focus on where the true genius lies -- in the people who innovate and advance our knowledge (with their God-given talents).

 

Forget science, in fact, forget Newton, he was about as ugly as Owen Wilson. I never liked any of his movies anyway, especially Meet the ****ers. Worst movie ever.

Now I know you're crazy

 

And how about that model movie he did... Zoolander I think it was called. WTF?

 

I'll give you that one though!

 

And pie, earth is the center of the universe, so that's not something science got wrong. Space is expanding uniformly, so ever instance of space is the center of the universe.

 

Think of the universe as the 3D analogue of a 2D surface of a sphere with an increasing radius of time. Every point on the surface of that sphere is the center. So the earth is the center of the universe! YAY!!

 

There you have it. Those Christian scientists were right.

 

Next thing you know, we'll discover that at the Big Bang, the darkness separated from the light. Amen!

Edited January 9, 2015 by pie2

[Weezy1973]

still doesnt explain the intelligence......and mutations can be recreated...so can single cells into multi cells...........the creation of artificial intelligence...says it all....true intelligence cannot be created or evolved in a petri dish....because it was intelligently created from an all knowing god......deb

 

So what intelligence created that God. To infinite.

 

You are the one defining intelligent. It is more likely than not that humans will kill all humans. Is that intelligent? To your definition?

[Eddy Street]

my god is not exclusively mine......he is for all.......sinners and saints alike.....he is everywhere in everything all at once...you might not believe in him but he believes in you...thats why you have your unique and special gifts eddy.....

 

That's fine. I wrote earlier, what if the universe itself is our god? Thought probably off by a margin, it's probably closer to the truth than the ideas of organized modern religion taken literally, which rely on outdated knowledge and give human qualities to a force which created something so old and so vast that not even light itself can fully map it. If the universe constitutes an intelligence, it's an intelligence that transcends all our notions of intelligence and consciousness.

 

intelligence involves making decisions.....so far ....science cannot explain why a single cell decided to become a primate or a banana......and to know exactly how to become that fave fruit o' mine over a primate......or become an egg....or a become chicken..almost feels like you need a magic wand to wave....and a glossy hat to pull answers from...its wonderful to me to think about things like this......till i get a migraine then i take a scientific made remedy called panadol.....;0)....which god gave us pharmaceutical intelligence in the form of banana shaped pharmacists in white lab coats......just right now an epiphany formed......i just figured out i have a craving to eat a banana.....funny that....do you know that apes peel a banana the easiest way unlike most of us who peel it from the wrong end....i have to make a concerted effort to peel the banana the right way....instead of what feels right for me to do ......truth is often stranger than fiction.....and what feels right often is completely wrong...what feels harder to understand and believe passionately enough to follow..... is often right...........deb

 

There are some really interesting points here, but science can come up with very compelling explanations of these phenomena. It wasn't a "decision", it was environmental pressure favoring one type of mutation over another. One force of the universe working with another. Like two hands kneading dough. There we go again, religion is just a series of metaphors for real things.

 

As for bananas, humans do it wrong because we don't like to get our fingers dirty

[pie2]

Speaking of conflict between christianity and science, today 372 years ago Galileo Galilei died. 10 years before his death he barely managed to trade the pyre against a lifelong confinement, for confronting the church with observations that anyone with a low-quality binocular could make today.

 

omg, and today is Elvis' birthday.

 

What does it all mean? I think it's some sort of sign...

 

It is more likely than not that humans will kill all humans. Is that intelligent? To your definition?

 

Doesn't seem intelligent to me. Does that seem intelligent to you? If not, does that mean there are no intelligent people?