Feel discriminated against

[Sugarkane]

Other ladies and I had worked at the same company for years. We weren't full time. Then a woman and her clique of friends took over the place. They brown nosed, hugged and heavily flirted with the new boss inappropriately. At least my old boss never did that. I tried becoming friends with them, but they always excluded me and I was never put with them. Then they all got made full time and the rest of us- who had worked there years, got let go. Can I sue?

[WhatYouWantToHear]

Can I sue?

 

Australia? Are you an American transplant? Because that's exactly what everyone here would do.

 

Here's how it would work in the good ole US of A. You can sue for whatever you want. So yes you can sue. However, there's no chance you'd win. Unless you have a contract that states otherwise you can be dismissed for any reason other than being a protected class (race, religion, gender, etc.). You can be fired for being ugly, fat, annoying and everything else.

 

Here in the US you would have no recourse. But, you could absolutely still sue.

[ufo8mycat]

Can I sue?

 

For what? Suing is a civil action. You would need deep pockets.

 

Were you made redundant? Were you casual?

 

The best contact is Fair Work Australia. Discrimination needs a basis and someone not liking you isn't discrimination under the act.

 

Sometimes things don't go your way and unfair as it is - they may be entitled to let you go. But Fair Work Australia can advise as it depends on your employment conditions.

[Sugarkane]

Just the fact that I wasn't even given a thankyou after working there for many years. I feel like emailing them this?

[georgia girl]

Just the fact that I wasn't even given a thankyou after working there for many years. I feel like emailing them this?

 

Please don't do this. Never, ever deliberately burn bridges. When I left a job where I felt I had been treated poorly just prior to leaving (my "new boss" took credit for my work in a board meeting), I wrote an ever-so-grateful resignation letter. I figured that the new boss wouldn't last too long and whoever replaced him may be called to one day give me a reference. He/she wouldn't know me, but in my personnel file there would be this letter that obviously indicated I was leaving on great terms. Plus, living well - I left that job to take over a company as a CEO - was its own rewards.

 

 

However, on to the original question of whether or not you could sue. I don't know Australian law but I can share some insight from the US. First, in the US, each state has different rules. Some states are "employ at will" states which allow the employer to terminate any employee for any reason.

 

 

But, that doesn't mean that discrimination is not still eligible to be litigated. Instead, you need to PROVE three elements: 1) that you were injured; 2) that the injury resulted in damage to you that has a lingering effect and 3) that it was the result of discrimination.

 

 

So, an easy scenario is that you could prove that many times prior you had requested full-time status and were denied as there were not open positions. It gets even better for you if the organization has a general procedure where full-time opportunities are posted in an open-bid process so that everyone has an opportunity but in this case that process was circumvented. That addresses the injury. Then, was their damage? Actually, that's pretty easy. At full time, you would earn more money and potentially receive better benefits, so yes. Third, and here's another big hurdle, you have to prove that this was discrimination. Here's where you would rely on glowing performance evaluations, job descriptions that are the same or very similar, documentation of any conversations/happenstances around the workplace that you and others documented what happened (not feelings, exact statements, exact actions, etc.) If you have these things, you may have a case in the state I work in.

 

 

At that point, your best course of action may be to go to human resources (or whoever does it) and ask for an explanation. Be polite but be clear that you would like the offer of full-time employment. (This is called allowing them to remedy the issue.) Get documentation in writing of any denial and any explanation.

 

 

Then, you could go to the supervisor of human resources or as far as the CEO. Again, get everything documented. From there, see an attorney. But you have to build the case and the burden of proof is on you. So, if you skip steps (you don't want to talk to HR, you don't bother to get documentation), it weakens your case and you likely won't prevail.

 

 

Discrimination cases are difficult to prove, to be honest. But if you do your work, you could potentially have a case. Just my opinion. However, you cannot go from angry to lawsuit. There are hundreds of steps in-between.

[preraph]

No, you can't sue. In the US, you can sue for age, sex or race discrimination. You haven't been fired, so you can't sue for wrongful termination. Some states, you can't sue for that anyway as they are no-fault termination states. You're the same sex as the ladies who were promoted, so it's not sex discrimination. If you feel it could be racial, you need to gather evidence and witnesses.

[Got it]

Australia? Are you an American transplant? Because that's exactly what everyone here would do.

 

Here's how it would work in the good ole US of A. You can sue for whatever you want. So yes you can sue. However, there's no chance you'd win. Unless you have a contract that states otherwise you can be dismissed for any reason other than being a protected class (race, religion, gender, etc.). You can be fired for being ugly, fat, annoying and everything else.

 

Here in the US you would have no recourse. But, you could absolutely still sue.

 

Sorry - I missed that this is not US. Carry on.

[Got it]

No, you can't sue. In the US, you can sue for age, sex or race discrimination. You haven't been fired, so you can't sue for wrongful termination. Some states, you can't sue for that anyway as they are no-fault termination states. You're the same sex as the ladies who were promoted, so it's not sex discrimination. If you feel it could be racial, you need to gather evidence and witnesses.

 

Actually not entirely true. She is claiming unfair practices based on not flirting with the boss so basically a quid pro quo arrangement that she has not been privy to and negatively impacted. That is "grounds" under hostile work environment.

 

Now this is completely at face value, no idea the evidence of the case and if there is no reasonable argument why these others were promoted and if it has anything to do with them flirting/they are actually flirting.

 

Now, I would recommend that the OP actually talk to her boss, HR, etc. and see if there can be any resolution. Then, or now, the OP (if she was in the US) can contact the EEOC and make the complaint to them and see what their investigation finds. The EEOC, if they do not find cause, will send a right to sue letter and/or the OP can retain counsel.

 

But even an "at will" state you can sue under any protected characteristic, ADA, FMLA, or wage concerns. Also you do not need to be terminated to have adverse treatment.

[evanescentworld]

Other ladies and I had worked at the same company for years. We weren't full time. Then a woman and her clique of friends took over the place. They brown nosed, hugged and heavily flirted with the new boss inappropriately. At least my old boss never did that. I tried becoming friends with them, but they always excluded me and I was never put with them. Then they all got made full time and the rest of us- who had worked there years, got let go. Can I sue?

 

What do you mean "A woman and her clique of friends"....? Suddenly, they appeared out of nowhere, demanded jobs, got given them, and wham! You're out?

Were you given notice?

If you were 'let go' they either made you redundant, and you received a payment, or they gave you suitable notice, in which case, either way, you might just as well move on and either find other employment, or not, as your situation dictates.

 

Sounds as if you resent their behaviour, because they got preferential treatment...

 

I have absolutely no idea what you might sue them for, but if you intend taking legal action, investigate your rights fully, and what your chances would be of winning (IMHO slim and none). Also, make sure you've got plenty of money put by in case you lose, to pay their legal fees, and yours, and other court costs.

[georgia girl]

Actually not entirely true. She is claiming unfair practices based on not flirting with the boss so basically a quid pro quo arrangement that she has not been privy to and negatively impacted. That is "grounds" under hostile work environment.

 

Now this is completely at face value, no idea the evidence of the case and if there is no reasonable argument why these others were promoted and if it has anything to do with them flirting/they are actually flirting.

 

Now, I would recommend that the OP actually talk to her boss, HR, etc. and see if there can be any resolution. Then, or now, the OP (if she was in the US) can contact the EEOC and make the complaint to them and see what their investigation finds. The EEOC, if they do not find cause, will send a right to sue letter and/or the OP can retain counsel.

 

But even an "at will" state you can sue under any protected characteristic, ADA, FMLA, or wage concerns. Also you do not need to be terminated to have adverse treatment.

 

Thank you. You defined it a little better than I did which perhaps confused the other poster. To the OP, employment practices are eligible for litigation in every state in the US. As this poster has also stated, you can't violate federal worker protection laws or your state's worker protection laws either.

[preraph]

Every single place I've worked, certain people were given preferential treatment because they buddied up to the boss, male and female. Yes, it can cross the line, but it can also just be some people try harder to be approachable and cooperative. Also, in layoffs, often they will keep newer people who maybe aren't making as much money in order to help their bottom line. Sad but true. Anyway, you have to be able to prove it and that would be very difficult.

[Rejected Rosebud]

Just the fact that I wasn't even given a thankyou after working there for many years. I feel like emailing them this?

You think you can sue them for not saying thank you??

[Rejected Rosebud]

OP, really your perception of how this "clique" obtained their jobs might not reflect how it actually happened. They very well may have demonstrated that they are qualified for the jobs.

[CC12]

Just the fact that I wasn't even given a thankyou after working there for many years. I feel like emailing them this?

 

Write the email, pour your heart out and describe just how unfairly you felt you were treated, how you felt other people were given preference, etc. Then immediately delete the email, forget about them, and move forward.

 

Absolutely do not email them anything. But go ahead and get it all out. Maybe it will help you stop dwelling on it. If it works, you can try this with all the other people in your life who you feel are doing you wrong. Write them all letters, then burn them.

[almond]

Unless you're leaving something very significant out, you have absolutely no leg to stand on.

[Sugarkane]

Of coarse I resent their behavior. I tried being friendly numerous times but all they did was ostracize me. What happened was a woman got the leader employed and then the leader soon got all her outside friends employed too. Even though there wasn't really enough work for all these extra people to be employed. Then a new boss takes over and my old boss gets sacked.

What do you mean "A woman and her clique of friends"....? Suddenly, they appeared out of nowhere, demanded jobs, got given them, and wham! You're out?

Were you given notice?

If you were 'let go' they either made you redundant, and you received a payment, or they gave you suitable notice, in which case, either way, you might just as well move on and either find other employment, or not, as your situation dictates.

 

Sounds as if you resent their behaviour, because they got preferential treatment...

 

I have absolutely no idea what you might sue them for, but if you intend taking legal action, investigate your rights fully, and what your chances would be of winning (IMHO slim and none). Also, make sure you've got plenty of money put by in case you lose, to pay their legal fees, and yours, and other court costs.

[Sugarkane]

There is no HR- it's a small company and even smaller now. They have all my time sheet records- we aren't allowed to keep them.

Please don't do this. Never, ever deliberately burn bridges. When I left a job where I felt I had been treated poorly just prior to leaving (my "new boss" took credit for my work in a board meeting), I wrote an ever-so-grateful resignation letter. I figured that the new boss wouldn't last too long and whoever replaced him may be called to one day give me a reference. He/she wouldn't know me, but in my personnel file there would be this letter that obviously indicated I was leaving on great terms. Plus, living well - I left that job to take over a company as a CEO - was its own rewards.

 

 

However, on to the original question of whether or not you could sue. I don't know Australian law but I can share some insight from the US. First, in the US, each state has different rules. Some states are "employ at will" states which allow the employer to terminate any employee for any reason.

 

 

But, that doesn't mean that discrimination is not still eligible to be litigated. Instead, you need to PROVE three elements: 1) that you were injured; 2) that the injury resulted in damage to you that has a lingering effect and 3) that it was the result of discrimination.

 

 

So, an easy scenario is that you could prove that many times prior you had requested full-time status and were denied as there were not open positions. It gets even better for you if the organization has a general procedure where full-time opportunities are posted in an open-bid process so that everyone has an opportunity but in this case that process was circumvented. That addresses the injury. Then, was their damage? Actually, that's pretty easy. At full time, you would earn more money and potentially receive better benefits, so yes. Third, and here's another big hurdle, you have to prove that this was discrimination. Here's where you would rely on glowing performance evaluations, job descriptions that are the same or very similar, documentation of any conversations/happenstances around the workplace that you and others documented what happened (not feelings, exact statements, exact actions, etc.) If you have these things, you may have a case in the state I work in.

 

 

At that point, your best course of action may be to go to human resources (or whoever does it) and ask for an explanation. Be polite but be clear that you would like the offer of full-time employment. (This is called allowing them to remedy the issue.) Get documentation in writing of any denial and any explanation.

 

 

Then, you could go to the supervisor of human resources or as far as the CEO. Again, get everything documented. From there, see an attorney. But you have to build the case and the burden of proof is on you. So, if you skip steps (you don't want to talk to HR, you don't bother to get documentation), it weakens your case and you likely won't prevail.

 

 

Discrimination cases are difficult to prove, to be honest. But if you do your work, you could potentially have a case. Just my opinion. However, you cannot go from angry to lawsuit. There are hundreds of steps in-between.

[Rejected Rosebud]

Since you are often so upset by being ostracized, and it seems to be a recurring event in your life, maybe you might take a look as some things you might be doing that could contribute to it?

[UpwardForward]

There is no HR- it's a small company and even smaller now. They have all my time sheet records- we aren't allowed to keep them.

 

I agree with others that you can't sue.

 

And the fact that the company is smaller now, says a lot.

 

If they're devious enough to reject and ignore, there's not much you can do. Not everyone acts in an open professional manner. It's on them, and how they handle all facets of 'business'.