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Are the sexes really that different?


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Yeah, could be the Amazons... or maybe the Valkyries....

 

 

Reminds me.... I need to develop my six-pack better.... how are my biceps looking....?

 

(Gross - or what - ?!)

 

Its not the Valkyries... I haven't heard of them... It was a regiment within an army that is well documented. Not mythology. I can't even remember where I read about them... if I could engage brain to remember that I could look them up...

 

I am scared... Mind you that will be great and very attractive for some people so who are we to judge? Its not doing any harm so why not? I don't think my jelly rolls on my belly would ever manage to get to that state! :D

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Its not the Valkyries... I haven't heard of them... It was a regiment within an army that is well documented. Not mythology. I can't even remember where I read about them... if I could engage brain to remember that I could look them up...

 

I am scared... Mind you that will be great and very attractive for some people so who are we to judge? Its not doing any harm so why not? I don't think my jelly rolls on my belly would ever manage to get to that state! :D

 

Scythians?

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evanescentworld

Man... all these wimmin wiv attichoode!! :lmao:

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Scythians?

 

Nope...

 

Its really bugging me now.

 

I have found loads of examples of women in battle but can't find this particular regiment. I read about them while I was going through a military history phase. I remember them as they had very specific recruitment policies and training policies. It really was fascinating to read about... and those gals were tough... really tough.

 

Not from Asia, I think it was more central/eastern Europe area... About the time of chariots etc hence why my brain keeps focusing on Boadicea..

 

Gah - I give up.

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I watched a thing on the telly once about raising kids, they had babies all the same age and they asked them to crawl down a slope that could be set to different gradients.

They gradual increased the gradient to see the steepest slope each baby could/would crawl down.

But first they asked the parents to set the slope as steep as they thought their kid could manage.

 

 

If I remember right, the kids achieved a mix bag of results but the consistent pattern was parents of girls expected wayyy less from their kid. Baby girls ability and bravery was consistently underestimated.

 

 

Always stuck with me that. When I have a daughter I don't ever want to do that. I want to make sure I set the bar as high as I do for her brothers!

Like very much! I always tell my female friends when they question whether I can do something that my male friends never ask because they let me get on with it without raising doubts and self-limitation!

 

A very old school colleague of mine likes to remind me occasionally how women's brains are supposedly different and how we can't do certain things apparently. I asked him once or twice whether this is the mentality he raised his daughters in.

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So are we really that different?
Outside of some basic chemical differences and those manifestations, IMO, nah, not much different, and I've believed that for my entire life. We're different in the heterosexual sense, desiring the opposite sex for procreation but, at the basic human level, far more similar than different.

 

However, the social groups we are born into have organized certain differences into their codes of civilization and our brain's organization is formed within those codes.

 

I mention this because I didn't start 'rebelling' at home, which is typical for most young people, rather out in the world, against dichotomies which for some reason I naturally felt were inequitable, unfair, and unhealthy, with regard to sexual organization. The unfortunate side effect was exclusion from social groups. I didn't understand it at the time but later could see how parents socializing me in a neutral way with regard to 'sexes really being different' backfired when integrating into peer social groups.

 

The remnants of that today are the sarcastic comments of male friends that someday I'll make someone 'a good wife'. While couched in humor and from those who do show respect, it underscores a recognition of a different 'aura' than that of a typical male socialized into my generation.

 

Regardless, I'll take my basic belief in similarities outweighing differences to the grave. If it's an unpopular view, that's OK. Association is always voluntary.

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evanescentworld
I watched a thing on the telly once about raising kids, they had babies all the same age and they asked them to crawl down a slope that could be set to different gradients.

They gradual increased the gradient to see the steepest slope each baby could/would crawl down.

But first they asked the parents to set the slope as steep as they thought their kid could manage.

 

 

If I remember right, the kids achieved a mix bag of results but the consistent pattern was parents of girls expected wayyy less from their kid. Baby girls ability and bravery was consistently underestimated.

 

 

Always stuck with me that. When I have a daughter I don't ever want to do that. I want to make sure I set the bar as high as I do for her brothers!

 

I remember watching a very old BBC documentary, when the commentator - male - spoke in a very 'BBC' voice, clipped tones, closed vowels... that kind of thing - about little girls and boys starting at playschool where the boys are taught manual tasks from an early age, and given the tools for the job - saws,screwdrivers, chisels, (Can you IMAGINE Health & safety today!?! :D ) "just the thing for busy active boys to come to grips with!" - while the girls were 'not so heavily burdened', and were just 'allowed' to play with dolls, and fake cookers, pans, food and vacuum cleaners - "not the kinds of things boys like at all!"

 

We can roll our eyes, by all means - but we still classify and stereotype kids, and condition them to follow certain trends - all you need to do is to look at the toy adverts at Christmas -

 

The girls' adverts are all pink, airy-fairy and 'soft-focus' with young girls (I'm talking under 10 years of age) wearing make-up; blusher, lip-gloss, mascara, and speaking in tweety voices to a back-drop of sickly-sweet music.

 

Boys' adverts are narrated by a tough, macho voice, with strident 'adventurer' music, bold, dark colours and gung-ho attitude.

 

Games for mixed-gender groups are primary colours, and jolly get-along music, with all the children gathered together playing a board-game as if it was the most exciting thing on the planet.....

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I remember watching a very old BBC documentary, when the commentator - male - spoke in a very 'BBC' voice, clipped tones, closed vowels... that kind of thing - about little girls and boys starting at playschool where the boys are taught manual tasks from an early age, and given the tools for the job - saws,screwdrivers, chisels, (Can you IMAGINE Health & safety today!?! :D ) "just the thing for busy active boys to come to grips with!" - while the girls were 'not so heavily burdened', and were just 'allowed' to play with dolls, and fake cookers, pans, food and vacuum cleaners - "not the kinds of things boys like at all!"

 

We can roll our eyes, by all means - but we still classify and stereotype kids, and condition them to follow certain trends - all you need to do is to look at the toy adverts at Christmas -

 

The girls' adverts are all pink, airy-fairy and 'soft-focus' with young girls (I'm talking under 10 years of age) wearing make-up; blusher, lip-gloss, mascara, and speaking in tweety voices to a back-drop of sickly-sweet music.

 

Boys' adverts are narrated by a tough, macho voice, with strident 'adventurer' music, bold, dark colours and gung-ho attitude.

 

Games for mixed-gender groups are primary colours, and jolly get-along music, with all the children gathered together playing a board-game as if it was the most exciting thing on the planet.....

 

Look at legos. They are now marketing to each sex instead of a gender neutral toy and the "girl" legos are pink, stereotypically female interests, etc. where the outcome of the toys is already assumed.

 

The purpose of the original legos was to be a vehicle for the child's imagination. Not tell the child where their imagination should go.

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Outside of some basic chemical differences and those manifestations, IMO, nah, not much different, and I've believed that for my entire life. We're different in the heterosexual sense, desiring the opposite sex for procreation but, at the basic human level, far more similar than different.

 

However, the social groups we are born into have organized certain differences into their codes of civilization and our brain's organization is formed within those codes.

 

I mention this because I didn't start 'rebelling' at home, which is typical for most young people, rather out in the world, against dichotomies which for some reason I naturally felt were inequitable, unfair, and unhealthy, with regard to sexual organization. The unfortunate side effect was exclusion from social groups. I didn't understand it at the time but later could see how parents socializing me in a neutral way with regard to 'sexes really being different' backfired when integrating into peer social groups.

 

The remnants of that today are the sarcastic comments of male friends that someday I'll make someone 'a good wife'. While couched in humor and from those who do show respect, it underscores a recognition of a different 'aura' than that of a typical male socialized into my generation.

 

Regardless, I'll take my basic belief in similarities outweighing differences to the grave. If it's an unpopular view, that's OK. Association is always voluntary.

 

I do agree that I am very happy that my parents did raise us in a more gender neutral upbringing where there were no differences between my siblings of both sexes. I don't recall being hit with gender inequality until I was 16 years old.

 

And it has made it harder, to some degree, fitting in with the different sexes but it just made that I had more guy friends as a young adult but felt more on the edge of both genders.

 

Luckily, finding horses, that is a very gender neutral interest and sport since the sexes compete against each other. So it is quite shocking for me to read some of the comments on here about the genders, belief in gender differences, etc. when that goes so contrary to my upbringing and real life experience.

 

It saddens me, though, how prevalent gender inequality is still in the workplace and the world.

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evanescentworld
Look at legos. They are now marketing to each sex instead of a gender neutral toy and the "girl" legos are pink, stereotypically female interests, etc. where the outcome of the toys is already assumed.

 

The purpose of the original legos was to be a vehicle for the child's imagination. Not tell the child where their imagination should go.

 

Yup. You got that right.

If I were an original lego Director, I'd be seriously thinking about making a few heads roll...

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Nikki Sahagin

I think the answer is yes and no.

 

There are many differences between the genders but I also think there are many similarities. There's also a wide array of variation between individuals. Look at the many differences between a stereotypical gay man and a traditional macho man.

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evanescentworld

No, that's not a good comparison... you should look at differences between gay men and gay women, and heterosexual men and heterosexual women.

 

Sexual wiring in one gender means you cannot compare them; it's like comparing a tomato to an orange....

 

In my opinion. Unless I'm missing your point....

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Nope...

 

Its really bugging me now.

 

I have found loads of examples of women in battle but can't find this particular regiment. I read about them while I was going through a military history phase. I remember them as they had very specific recruitment policies and training policies. It really was fascinating to read about... and those gals were tough... really tough.

 

Not from Asia, I think it was more central/eastern Europe area... About the time of chariots etc hence why my brain keeps focusing on Boadicea..

 

Gah - I give up.

Sarmatians?
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Like very much! I always tell my female friends when they question whether I can do something that my male friends never ask because they let me get on with it without raising doubts and self-limitation!

Right, the moment you set a bar you set a limit, and I tend to think life's pretty limitless if you put your mind to it.

 

A very old school colleague of mine likes to remind me occasionally how women's brains are supposedly different and how we can't do certain things apparently. I asked him once or twice whether this is the mentality he raised his daughters in.

I think like maybe more men like boxing than women, so maybe you could say men are more likely to like boxing, but there's plenty of men who hate it and women who love it..........I just think you cant put people in boxes.

 

 

See nature or nurture aside what chance did his daughters ever have to be....pilots, or rugby players or engineers, when their own dad didn't believe in them.

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Nikki Sahagin
No, that's not a good comparison... you should look at differences between gay men and gay women, and heterosexual men and heterosexual women.

 

Sexual wiring in one gender means you cannot compare them; it's like comparing a tomato to an orange....

 

In my opinion. Unless I'm missing your point....

 

What I meant really is that within one gender there is a lot of variety; lots of different mindsets, personalities etc. A camp hairdresser and an army sergeant are poles apart and yet they are both men.

 

I think the reason why people tend to think all men are one way and all women is another is because of socialisation. For instance, I know men who do not particularly enjoy promiscuous sex but pretend they do because it is seen as part of what a man is or women who are actually very logical and mathematical but shy away from it because they simply leave it to their husband as its seen as more of a male domain [just 2 examples]

 

So I think it can be hard to separate the truth of a person from the social conditioning of gender. But of course, there are still biological differences between us.

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I remember watching a very old BBC documentary, when the commentator - male - spoke in a very 'BBC' voice, clipped tones, closed vowels... that kind of thing - about little girls and boys starting at playschool where the boys are taught manual tasks from an early age, and given the tools for the job - saws,screwdrivers, chisels, (Can you IMAGINE Health & safety today!?! :D ) "just the thing for busy active boys to come to grips with!" - while the girls were 'not so heavily burdened', and were just 'allowed' to play with dolls, and fake cookers, pans, food and vacuum cleaners - "not the kinds of things boys like at all!"

 

We can roll our eyes, by all means - but we still classify and stereotype kids, and condition them to follow certain trends - all you need to do is to look at the toy adverts at Christmas -

 

The girls' adverts are all pink, airy-fairy and 'soft-focus' with young girls (I'm talking under 10 years of age) wearing make-up; blusher, lip-gloss, mascara, and speaking in tweety voices to a back-drop of sickly-sweet music.

 

Boys' adverts are narrated by a tough, macho voice, with strident 'adventurer' music, bold, dark colours and gung-ho attitude.

 

Games for mixed-gender groups are primary colours, and jolly get-along music, with all the children gathered together playing a board-game as if it was the most exciting thing on the planet.....

 

 

Totally true!

A real gender neutral upbringing is a difficult thing to achieve though.....I'd certainly have no problem taking any daughter of mine to the football, teaching her to shoot, or fix an engine. I hope that I can do all that stuff when I have a daughter.

And I'm not the kind of dad who would freak out and snatch a doll away from my son or anything like that, But not going to lie about it, I know id struggle to understand my son being into all that "pink, airy-fairy and 'soft-focus'" stuff as you put it, and not share my appreciation for the more....male dominated pursuits!

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