Spectre Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I've noticed there are a few reasons people stay. The biggest is because they have kids. This is not only the biggest reason, but it is the one that makes the most sense and it is the reason that is actually easy to understand. I know what I'm going to say next will be heavily disagreed with, so remember this is just my opinions about love, life, and the world. I think other then for the kids, the only other reason a person stays is because they have deluded themselves into thinking their spouse loves them despite cheating on them. They have fooled themselves into thinking a person can across that line and still be in love with you. If the reason isn't about making themselves believe that they are loved and respected when they aren't, then it comes down to them thinking they just can't do any better and they'd rather be with a two timing cheater then be alone. Or a person might desperately want to divorce, but at the present time lacks financial independence and thus rely on their spouse for financial support. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
fellini Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) Well expressed opinion. My opinion is that despite an affair, that my WS did in fact love me during the 8 years of our marriage, before we had our wonderful daughter, remained in love with me 8 years more, had an affair in which she may or may not have lost/ignored/su pressed or otherwise stopped feeling love for me while getting it elsewhere, and now that this situation within her is/has passed, loves me and not him. If i thought that spending a number of months in a secret affair was sufficient to killing 17 years of marriage I wouldn't, and i can imagine a large majority wouldn't bother to reconcile. I truly do not believe that all BS's are deluded or so desperate for companionship that they would stay in a 100% dead relationship. I think that takes some serious balls to be able to say that about people when one has not known them, nor their personal capacities for forgiveness, nor been through in your own person journey. I've noticed there are a few reasons people stay. The biggest is because they have kids. This is not only the biggest reason, but it is the one that makes the most sense and it is the reason that is actually easy to understand. I know what I'm going to say next will be heavily disagreed with, so remember this is just my opinions about love, life, and the world. I think other then for the kids, the only other reason a person stays is because they have deluded themselves into thinking their spouse loves them despite cheating on them. They have fooled themselves into thinking a person can across that line and still be in love with you. If the reason isn't about making themselves believe that they are loved and respected when they aren't, then it comes down to them thinking they just can't do any better and they'd rather be with a two timing cheater then be alone. Or a person might desperately want to divorce, but at the present time lacks financial independence and thus rely on their spouse for financial support. Edited January 11, 2015 by fellini 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Confused48 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 What about leaving, for the kids. Not bc of fighting or things like that but bc the kids know about the A. If they know about the A and see you stay, what kind of message does that send? It's ok to be a doormat? It's ok to cheat and expect to be tolerated for it? Link to post Share on other sites
fellini Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I've never ever heard anyone say, I left because of the kids. I dont want them to think it's okay to cheat. Or they might think I'm a doormat. Staying and WORKING VERY HARD on reconciliation is not my definition of a doormat. Show me a thread where a BS says, I still love my WS but im leaving so the kids don't get the wrong idea about infidelity. What about leaving, for the kids. Not bc of fighting or things rlike that but bc the kids know about the A. If they know about the A and see you stay, what kind of message does that send? It's ok to be a doormat? It's ok to cheat and expect to be tolerated for it? Link to post Share on other sites
Popsicle Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Great thread. I made one like this before too. I agree with you. Link to post Share on other sites
badkarma2013 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) Well expressed opinion. My opinion is that despite an affair, that my WS did in fact love me during the 8 years of our marriage, before we had our wonderful daughter, remained in love with me 8 years more, had an affair in which she may or may not have lost/ignored/su pressed or otherwise stopped feeling love for me while getting it elsewhere, and now that this situation within her is/has passed, loves me and not him. If i thought that spending a number of months in a secret affair was sufficient to killing 17 years of marriage I wouldn't, and i can imagine a large majority wouldn't bother to reconcile. I truly do not believe that all BS's are deluded or so desperate for companionship that they would stay in a 100% dead relationship. I think that takes some serious balls to be able to say that about people when one has not known them, nor their personal capacities for forgiveness, nor been through in your own person journey. ***************************************************************** I concur...Your wife indeed loved you 8 years before and the 8 years after the A...However during You have now idea what she Really felt or had in mind...Your reply would be as mine would.."she has told me everything i asked and was i believe honest." But the information you and i did received was from someone who Lied,Deceived and Betrayed Us as husbands and our marriage...Why do I think Now she would tell the truth,,when she has been lying for over a year,and now when caught or confesses she would be the Beacon of Truth...I think not... The Truth is we will never know how she felt with the OM..or what their end game was...and whether you will admit it or not for a time (maybe not now),but for a time you were #2 and your marriage was #2..in her head...as well as mine was... I have read ALL of your post and respect your thought process greatly...and most importantly I have Never seen you steer anyone on here wrong..I also am well aware of your thoughts on forgiveness and R... I have not walked your journey nor have you walked mine...But for many BHs here infidelity is a dealbreaker in the marriage.. I have read many religious publications Books,manuscripts etc...NOT one states that i must Reconcile with someone who has wronged me...Not one...They ALL say I MUST forgive the person..which i have done...but not R...That was my choice just as it was her choice to have Sex with theOM... There many reasons many people stay and R and just as many why they chose to D..Neither is right or wrong ..its what one can live with... I will leave you with the two words you started your post with..(This is only,with no malice intended ) My opinion... Edited January 11, 2015 by badkarma2013 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Popsicle Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I see that most of the time that they stay for convenience or co dependency reasons, but the REALLY hard core ones deny that they are even suffering or that anything is wrong because they love their WS, even though the WS clearly doesn't love them. Link to post Share on other sites
truncated Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 There lots of reasons as to why a bs would choose to reconcile. I can understand doing so if both spouses are committed to the reconciliation, and making their marriage good again. If the marriage is bad and both people are miserable, I really belive they both need to give it their best shot, especially if there are kids. This means an end to the affair and all contact with the "other", counselling or whatever else is needed. If, after all that, thigs are still bad, then it's better to end things. This kids learn about that value of putting effort into a relationship, and know taht both mom and tried their best, but it just didn't work out. As for the kids thinking it's okay to be a doormat if someone cheats on you, if they know mom or dad has had an affair, then trying to hide taht fact becomes pointless. Betetr to sit them down and talk to them about the situation, and how the one who cheated is really sorry for doing so and both parents are working really hard to make things better. Link to post Share on other sites
purplesorrow Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) I see that most of the time that they stay for convenience or co dependency reasons, but the REALLY hard core ones deny that they are even suffering or that anything is wrong because they love their WS, even though the WS clearly doesn't love them. How is it convenient to stay with a cheater? You have to see that person in your personal space all the time, what's convenient about that? When I initially decided to try and reconcile it was because I wanted to. My WH was trying very hard to make amends and work on himself. I haven't seen anyone deny the pain and suffering of infidelity. Affairs are awful for all involved. They are hard enough to deal with without being judged for trying to salvage a family and relationship that a bs was not yet ready to leave. You have no idea if a WS loves their spouse. I can easily say he clearly didn't love his ow for the simple fact he asked her to be a side piece. Edited January 11, 2015 by purplesorrow 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Confused48 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 It's not like people's feelings are static. He might have been number 2, during the A, might be now again number two for a day, when she thinks of the OM fondly, or has some marital difficulties, then back to number one. As long as there is no contact, does it really matter? If only they had not acted on their stray feelings, it would not matter that they had them. Who doesn't have stray feelings once in a while. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
fellini Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I don't thimk anyone really can say they know exactly what others feel, affair or not. But generally, yes, my WS told me that she was in fact falling out of love and in love with him. And now 18 months she is being, finally, brutally honest with things she refused adequately convince me she was giving me what I was really asking. But that is our journey. Our reconciliation is not going to be about the details of her affair, but rather convincing me that she is doing what needs to be done to reconnect fully and live fully and authentically with me. Our reconciliation is about her finding herself again, and living with dignity. What ever went on back then is now water under the bridge. Of course it took a while to get to this stage, and one does go through a long period when it seems it really is all an only about the A. Absolutely I understand, and i respect the belief that for any BS an A is a dealbreaker. For other partners I would have walked, ni, run, from a cheating partner. But not this one, and for too many reasons that are besides the point. I wish to reconcile with this one. I may abandon this marriage in the end. But i will try until I am convinced not to. In fact I don't recall anyone in LS telling others they are wrong to D, but i have seen a lot of the reverse, and i find that kind lack of reciprocity disappointing. Not from your end B karma. [/b]QUOTE=badkarma2013;6101995]***************************************************************** I concur...Your wife indeed loved you 8 years before and the 8 years after the A...However during You have now idea what she Really felt or had in mind...Your reply would be as mine would.."she has told me everything i asked and was i believe honest." But the information you and i did received was from someone who Lied,Deceived and Betrayed Us as husbands and our marriage...Why do I think Now she would tell the truth,,when she has been lying for over a year,and now when caught or confesses she would be the Beacon of Truth...I think not... The Truth is we will never know how she felt with the OM..or what their end game was...and whether you will admit it or not for a time (maybe not now),but for a time you were #2 and your marriage was #2..in her head...as well as mine was... I have read ALL of your post and respect your thought process greatly...and most importantly I have Never seen you steer anyone on here wrong..I also am well aware of your thoughts on forgiveness and R... I have not walked your journey nor have you walked mine...But for many BHs here infidelity is a dealbreaker in the marriage.. I have read many religious publications Books,manuscripts etc...NOT one states that i must Reconcile with someone who has wronged me...Not one...They ALL say I MUST forgive the person..which i have done...but not R...That was my choice just as it was her choice to have Sex with theOM... There many reasons many people stay and R and just as many why they chose to D..Neither is right or wrong ..its what one can live with... I will leave you with the two words you started your post with..(This is only,with no malice intended ) My opinion... 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Popsicle Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 How is it convenient to stay with a cheater? You have to see that person in your personal space all the time, what's convenient about that? When I initially decided to try and reconcile it was because I wanted to. My WH was trying very hard to make amends and work on himself. I haven't seen anyone deny the pain and suffering of infidelity. Affairs are awful for all involved. They are hard enough to deal with without being judged for trying to salvage a family and relationship that a bs was not yet ready to leave. You have no idea if a WS loves their spouse. I can easily say he clearly didn't love his ow for the simple fact he asked her to be a side piece. What I meant by convenience is, money, kids, house, job, image, etc. All those things make life comfortable and convenient. They are difficult to give up or tear apart. The question was asked, so I gave my opinion like everyone else. Link to post Share on other sites
Confused48 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 What I meant bey convenience is, money, kids, house, job, image, etc. All those things make life comfortable and convenient. They are difficult to give up or tear apart. The question was asked, so I gave my opinion like everyone else. I do think it is a common OW, possibly also OM, fantasy, that the WS is only staying out of convenience. They tend to want to think there is nothing more substantial to the staying than that. When in reality there was noting substantial in the straying either. The WS just fed lines to the AP and the AP bought it. They are not that deep in the straying or the staying. IMHO. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
badkarma2013 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Posted my fellini.... "Absolutely I understand, and i respect the belief that for any BS an A is a dealbreaker. For other partners I would have walked, ni, run, from a cheating partner. But not this one, and for too many reasons that are besides the point. I wish to reconcile with this one. I may abandon this marriage in the end. But i will try until I am convinced not to." If you abandon your marriage tomorrow ...my respect for whatever choice you make would still stand... May we All here have a better 2015 badkarma 1 Link to post Share on other sites
sidney2718 Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Of course this is very true in some cases - a toxic marriage due to adultery can be toxic to kids and divorce can make things better in some circumstances. Adultery can trip marriages apart, with anger and more. My mom and dad fought so hard and so badly as he was ending the marriage with his new AP younger woman. I used to cry in my bed, hearing the fights at night, burying my head in the pillow to not hear it. It was awful I was 5. I hear you. My parents fought like tigers all of my life. They never divorced. The effect on me was quite serious. Of course I didn't know about that at the time, but it became clearer as I got older. I'm fairly sure that my childhood would have been better if they HAD divorced. But here is a thing - in some cases the parents keep fighting even while divorced. Many instances of ex parents and the toxic games continuing - damaging kids. I know I was a step kid - and also now a step father. People sometimes think - I will divorce this cheating A hole and they will go away ....or the toxic games will stop. Lawyers, judges, police, tears, and more into our new marriage from the divorced ex and his new wife. When the toxic games do not stop, it doesn't matter to the kids if there has been a divorce or not. They are in hell. Powerless pawns caught up in a war they never made. Also I go back to "normal marriages" (no adultery) - many kids experience unhealthy parental examples and marriages. Many of my older daughters friends have been around us and think we are some supper husband and wife compared to their parents. Divorce was rare when I was a kid (yes, I'm that old) but not today. I'd bet that over 90% of kids today know kids from divorced families. But I agree it is very very situation specific. Everyone needs to really think what the choices and possible outcomes are - and do whats best..... or least worst for them and their kids. Agreed, absolutely agreed! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
underpants Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 ....Fear.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Popsicle Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I do think it is a common OW, possibly also OM, fantasy, that the WS is only staying out of convenience. They tend to want to think there is nothing more substantial to the staying than that. When in reality there was noting substantial in the straying either. The WS just fed lines to the AP and the AP bought it. They are not that deep in the straying or the staying. IMHO. But they are sometimes staying out of convenience. It's not a fantasy. And I did say they sometimes stay because they love the WS. Link to post Share on other sites
dichotomy Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I'm fairly sure that my childhood would have been better if they HAD divorced. You may be right in your situation and with your parents, but grass always looks greener. My mom married a man who abused me. My dad should have man'ed up and stayed, but he could not. My mom should made better choices in men but she could not. Which in keeping with this thread question - is one of the many reasons I did not divorce. My wife has a poor history and choices in men. Link to post Share on other sites
Confused48 Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 You may be right in your situation and with your parents, but grass always looks greener. My mom married a man who abused me. My dad should have man'ed up and stayed, but he could not. My mom should made better choices in men but she could not. Which in keeping with this thread question - is one of the many reasons I did not divorce. My wife has a poor history and choices in men. Might you still leave then when your children are older? Link to post Share on other sites
jbrent890 Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 For me, I stayed for multiple reasons. First, my wife is truly remorseful and has yet to blame me for her ONS. She takes full responsibility for her actions. Second, it was a ONS and not a LTA. My wife knows that if was an affair, I would have left, especially if there were emotions involved. I have seen time and time again how WS admitted that emotionally detoxing from their APs effected their marriages. I can only imagine how rough this must be for BSs thay catch their Waywards in the act and decide to R. It must psychological tortue to have to watch your spouse detach emotionally from someone who in my opinion really didn't give them that much. Link to post Share on other sites
sidney2718 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) You may be right in your situation and with your parents, but grass always looks greener. You are certainly right about the color of the grass. My mom married a man who abused me. My dad should have man'ed up and stayed, but he could not. My mom should made better choices in men but she could not. It is too bad we live the way we do. If we lived backwards we could, perhaps at 70, pick a partner that could live with us and that we could live with. After all, we'd have 55 years of experience to draw upon. Instead, we make choices when we are way to young to know what is important and what isn't. There are many guys who, in their teen years, preferred the girl with the big breasts over the perhaps much more suitable one not so well endowed. Which in keeping with this thread question - is one of the many reasons I did not divorce. My wife has a poor history and choices in men. ALL of us, except for the lucky few, have made poor choices of wives or careers or jobs and the like. In the movies people have theme music that plays when they are about to make a bad choice. I never heard the theme music... Edited January 13, 2015 by sidney2718 Link to post Share on other sites
Striver Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 You are certainly right about the color of the grass. It is too bad we live the way we do. If we lived backwards we could, perhaps at 70, pick a partner that could live with us and that we could live with. After all, we'd have 55 years of experience to draw upon. Instead, we make choices when we are way to young to know what is important and what isn't. There are many guys who, in their teen years, preferred the girl with the big breasts over the perhaps much more suitable one not so well endowed. ALL of us, except for the lucky few, have made poor choices of wives or careers or jobs and the like. In the movies people have theme music that plays when they are about to make a bad choice. I never heard the theme music... I think the experience factor is way overrated in relationships. Maybe marriages were better when people got married younger. There are always going to be other people, there is always going to be some possible other choice. In my case, my wife, who had more relationship experience than I did, is leaving me for someone she knew before we ever met. She likely chose me because I would commit to marry her and give her children and he never would have done that. Now he will commit to a relationship with her, she's selfish and narcissistic, so off she goes. From my standpoint, what do I do? Am I ever going to feel like I did before I married her, have that sort of optimism? That's why second marriages fail. The participants don't have the same level of optimism. Maybe if partner #1 was awful, #2 can easily surpass them, but what if partner #1 was the best possible choice at the time? Sometimes life just takes things out of people. Divorce is very traumatic. People likely suffer PTSD or after effects and are never quite the same. The experience does more harm than good. Link to post Share on other sites
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