Why stay?

[sidney2718]

That's it. I know divorce is and will be ugly. My H is a VERY strong willed type personality there is nothing amicable about him. It is his way, his thoughts are superior and his ego is strong. I chip at it and he will explode. Part of me would love to take the plunge so he can beg me and plead that we go to MC and make things better. This would NEVER happen. He is already threatened by the fact my Best Friend is a divorce attorney and she would take him down in a heartbeat (Oh and she would, we have been bfs since high school and she has been there through all his bs. She, like me has forgiven but could NEVER forget).

 

My job has very much isolated me over the years. I am an in home childcare provider. I love my job and I am REALLY good at it. It has served our family well however it is a very lonely job. I don't meet new people, develop new friendship and is very socially isolating. I volunteer, go to the gym and out for coffee with my bff but that is all. I have yet to find a solid friendship through volunteer work over the years.

 

Our society undervalues home child care providers. Look at the hours you put in, 168 hours a week with very rare days off. At a salary of $20/hour that would mean that you'd collect $3360 per week.

 

Of course, most all men couldn't afford that. That's why that sort of money should be considered the wife's contribution to the family welfare. And that's why he has no right to yell at you or to treat you badly.

 

I rarely interact with men. I wouldn't know what flirting was, what it looked like or if I was worthy. I certainly couldn't imagine after a D) dating, "hooking-up" or the first thing about looking for someone else. All I've known since I was 15 is my H.

 

Of course. I know that you know that you married way too young. And that is a major source of your troubles.

 

My H and I have this morbid talk from time to time that if I died I want him to find someone. I want him to go through the "normal" process of finding someone and falling in love. I want him to know what that is. I honestly believe for "that" women he would be a totally different man. I whole heartily know this from the core of my soul. However, reality is I would LOVE to be alive to see it.

 

We never had that. We had sex (once, never dated). I got pregnant at 15. He didn't have anything to do with me/us my whole pregnancy. He met our son for the first time when he was a few months old. 10 months later he met us for coffee after I filled for child support (a whopping $50/month, that I found out months later his friend paid for him because he felt it was the right thing to do. My H had no intention to pay). I got kicked out a day prior to my son's 1st birthday and with no where to go I moved in with my H. We have been together since.

 

It sounds to me like he felt forced to marry you and you felt forced to marry him. That is a recipe for hell on earth.

 

My H has had to "learn" to love me. I question daily if he ever has. I certainly don't want/seek a pity party. I made my bed knowing this even after several A's in the beginning. Even how he confessed never left it open for remorse. I told the truth, guilt resolved... Move on. Shut up and put up. Again, I was young and desperate.

 

I doubt he's learned very much about love. But it is all water over the dam now. You have to decide what YOU want to do. Can you discuss a legal separation with him without him exploding? That would give both of you a chance to be alone and yes, even meet someone else. But it is your life. We can't decide it for you.

[JS84]

Doesn't he live in Japan and have a wife with Japanese citizenship (which he doesn't)? Think this is the thread. Because if that is the case his wife holds pretty much all of the power as far as controlling the kids. If they divorce his wife could basically keep them from him.

[Mal78]

"I doubt he's learned very much ab out love. . But it is all water over the dam now. Yo u have tohdecide what YOU want to do. Can you discuss a legal separation with him without him exploding? That would give both of you a chance to be alone and yes, even meet someone else. But it is your life. We can't decide it for you".

 

I tried that not to long ago. It didn't work well. I then ended up going to counseling. I was a mess because since my H felt he was losing control he went into a tailspin to regain it.

 

I should be clear about a few things. I do have free will. My H doesn't control me. He might not like things I do or like but ultimately I make my own decisions.

 

There might have been more issues when the kids were younger because he didn't like "Kid responsabilities" they cramped his style. I might have been more controlled then because he didn't want to be stuck with the kids when he rather party with his single friends.

 

Now that they are older and independent I am "free" with no where to go. Sure I go to the gym regularly but that is about it. I have no social life. He is now a home body. I would love to go for a date with him. His idea of a date is going for coffee in a drive thru.

 

Sometimes I feel I just want to get drunk! But I don't/won't drink alone and my H gave up drinking a few years ago. Not because he had a problem because his already intolerance issue to alcohol turned into a full blown one. He has issues with digestion. My H has never seen me intoxicated.

 

I'm now just b*tching. Not my intent, I just have those days. I get so tiered of laying in bed alone for hours on a Friday/Saturday night. I swear my H waits for me to fall asleep before he climbs into bed and still try to wake up before me to go out for coffee.

[atreides]

I have a few issues with this thread in some of the context:

 

First, I only know of a very few stories where "staying no matter what" actually is occurring or may not be now that we have no updates and the from what i remember, it was based on not being able to see the kids every day.

I want to make sure those in the process of fighting for their marriage does not translate into "staying no matter what" or staying and being miserable.

 

"Being miserable" occurs whether one is fighting for their marriage or not just by the fact of being betrayed and facing that in the mirror.

 

Secondly, some were speaking about infidelity as in "filling in the missing pieces" of a marriage. I ardently disagree, marriage problems and cheating have nothing to do with each other. Marriage problems are such as problems with life, they are never ending but teach us many things in the process and for many of us, make us stronger.

 

Thirdly, happiness, "happy in the marriage" vs comparing "happiness" as in to have no problems at all is a fallacy of an argument.

 

So my attempt to answer the OP would be based on the hope of righting what was wronged and what we will endure to do so up unto the point we see that all is lost and the energy going in no longer equates to the original investment and is simply too high a price to keep paying vs moving on.

 

I would then answer that by saying, some of us see value in different places and there is likely no one answer other than to say what is said in the subjectivity of "value." Infidelity for others can be a light switch, a total shut off and thus divorce because the act is too high a price to pay vs whatever the BS sees as the alternative.

[dichotomy]

I have carefully examined the alternatives and staying was/is the best (least worst choice). I could list all the "whys", but easier to say I can picture the alternative (divorce) very well and for me (my situation) happiness does not reside there for me or my children.

 

I know so many marriages, ones never touched by betrayal, that seem worse. I can hardly recall seeing anyone I know who has been married for a long while - even touch each other in public. At least we still do this. We have somethings, even if others are missing.

 

After a time now, I know neither of us are even close to those people of dDay time. I would say however that both of us understand something was lost. I actually see my wife struggling with this more than I do now.

Edited January 10, 2015 by dichotomy

[LadyLuck2014]

Do people actually "look to start" an A. Don't most WSs say, "it's not like I was looking to start an A... it just happened".

Well God knows there are enough of them that put up phony profiles on dating sites or put up ads on Craigslist or AdultFriendFiner or AshelyMadison, etc. etc. etc.

 

So yes. There are PLENTY who go looking for it.

[LadyLuck2014]

Sometimes I feel I just want to get drunk! But I don't/won't drink alone and my H gave up drinking a few years ago. Not because he had a problem because his already intolerance issue to alcohol turned into a full blown one. He has issues with digestion. My H has never seen me intoxicated.

Hey Mal - how about having ONE idea or thought that DOESN'T include your husband - a/k/a the albatross around your neck?

[Friskyone4u]

The minute a BS makes the statement to WS that "I am staying no matter what. I love you and don't want a divorce", the BS is almost guaranteeing that they will never truly have happiness because the WS has had no real consequences. We read here of marriages where there is no remorse, multiple affairs, and no happiness for either spouse.

Yes there are financial circumstances that make divorce a daunting undertaking.

For men , if you read the book His Needs Her Needs the number one need for men is SEX. BH stay with their cheating wives because they can't imagine having to go find a new emotional and sexual relationship again. If they are middle aged, out of shape, or physically not what they used to be, the fear of not being able to find another woman I think traps men into staying with wives who cheat on them even if finances and kids could be managed.

Women's needs are more emotional. If they have not dated in a long time it is scary in this new world of online dating and hook up culture. Fear of the unknown is the enemy.

There are so many different situations that it is very difficult to make a general statement about why people stay. Too many people think the answer to infidelity and reconciliation is immediately rushing to MC as it is was the quick fix for everything. for those who stay your marriage may be there but it will never be the same. It can be strong but you have to bury the old and start a new marriage

[badkarma2013]

The minute a BS makes the statement to WS that "I am staying no matter what. I love you and don't want a divorce", the BS is almost guaranteeing that they will never truly have happiness because the WS has had no real consequences. We read here of marriages where there is no remorse, multiple affairs, and no happiness for either spouse.

Yes there are financial circumstances that make divorce a daunting undertaking.

For men , if you read the book His Needs Her Needs the number one need for men is SEX. BH stay with their cheating wives because they can't imagine having to go find a new emotional and sexual relationship again. If they are middle aged, out of shape, or physically not what they used to be, the fear of not being able to find another woman I think traps men into staying with wives who cheat on them even if finances and kids could be managed.

Women's needs are more emotional. If they have not dated in a long time it is scary in this new world of online dating and hook up culture. Fear of the unknown is the enemy.

There are so many different situations that it is very difficult to make a general statement about why people stay. Too many people think the answer to infidelity and reconciliation is immediately rushing to MC as it is was the quick fix for everything. for those who stay your marriage may be there but it will never be the same. It can be strong but you have to bury the old and start a new marriage

 

 

I could not agree more...Fear of Loss is how my old M/C put it...I believe all of the things you said to be true... Until one becomes Angry and reliazes the the Lying ...deceiving and being made a fool of is a Dealbreaker...

 

Whether one Rs or Ds....I will always believe that is a moment of clarity when you realize I refuse to live live with someone who has basically Destroyed everything i believed in...and then wants forgiveness and reconcilitaion ...I think not...

 

I refused to live with the lies and trickle truth.......A person may stay, i could not..

 

The truth is most WS want forgiveness and to be let back into the marriage...Usually after they are Caught...But would have NEVER stopped otherwise..

 

I personally could not live with it...and 2 families learned a Very Hard Lesson..

[cocorico]

Divorce has a substantial financial, emotional, and health cost for most people. Divorced people are on average unhappier, poorer, and unhealthier than married people or those never married. Remarried divorced people are happier than those that don't, but not as happy as those in their first marriage. Baggage from first marriages make second marriages hard to pull off.

 

 

Perhaps "on average", but stats hide a huge range of possibilities. My H and I are both much, much happier than we were in our first Ms. I was so much happier as a divorcee than I ever was in my first M, and I am even happier now. I don't know anyone who has chosen to D and regretted it (though I do know one or two whose partners chose to D, and they didn't, who regret the D - because they didn't want it).

[TrustedthenBusted]

My only issue with Loveshack and a large part of its collective attitude about Staying vs Leaving is you'll find a whole bunch of people here who STAY, constantly advising other people in the same exact boat to LEAVE!

 

It's as if THEIR reasons and THEIR children, and THEIR house and career is more important than the children and homes and careers of the posters.

 

Drove me nuts for awhile.

 

Sure, it's easy to yell Dump Her! And it feels good. But I mean.....Duh? Right?

 

But then I remembered that we're all in pain.

[Mal78]

UOTE =Lady Luck2 me014;6100210]Hey Mal - how about having ONE idea or thought that DOESN'T include your husband - a/k/a the albatross around your neck?

 

That is where my co-dependancy comes in play.

 

It's a habit that is hard to break and the idea I romanticize over and over again that one day, he will want me in the same way.

[badkarma2013]

My only issue with Loveshack and a large part of its collective attitude about Staying vs Leaving is you'll find a whole bunch of people here who STAY, constantly advising other people in the same exact boat to LEAVE!

 

It's as if THEIR reasons and THEIR children, and THEIR house and career is more important than the children and homes and careers of the posters.

 

Drove me nuts for awhile.

 

Sure, it's easy to yell Dump Her! And it feels good. But I mean.....Duh? Right?

 

But then I remembered that we're all in pain.

 

 

 

 

****************************************************************

 

I hear you....I truly believe however...They are advising others to leave and file for D...because they wish They had done it sooner but did not have the balls or whatever it takes to stand up from being a doormat, (fill in the blank) and just do it! IMHO..

[jbrent890]

My only issue with Loveshack and a large part of its collective attitude about Staying vs Leaving is you'll find a whole bunch of people here who STAY, constantly advising other people in the same exact boat to LEAVE!

 

It's as if THEIR reasons and THEIR children, and THEIR house and career is more important than the children and homes and careers of the posters.

 

Drove me nuts for awhile.

 

Sure, it's easy to yell Dump Her! And it feels good. But I mean.....Duh? Right?

 

But then I remembered that we're all in pain.

 

I think it's like a parental type thing. One of the things that we notice as teenagers is that our parents are harder on us for doing the things that they have done in the past. In essense, they don't want to see you make the same mistake they did. Same goes for BSs who are years out from their D Days. After reading a lot of threads on this site and others, I think if they could do it all over again, they would have divorced their spouses.

 

Now on to the thread at hand, there are multiple reasons to stay, the biggest being children. For some, the decision to leave is even harder when you do have a truly remorseful WS. I look at some of the posters on this site who's WS's initially didn't get it, but then turned it around. The common theme that I have seen with those posters is that they either left and came back or came pretty close to divorcing their spouses. Honestly I think that's route to go. If you do want to stay, then don't immediatley take them back. I saw some excellent advice on another site and that is "you cannot chase a cheater."

[thirtysomethingteen]

****************************************************************

 

I hear you....I truly believe however...They are advising others to leave and file for D...because they wish They had done it sooner but did not have the balls or whatever it takes to stand up from being a doormat, (fill in the blank) and just do it! IMHO..

 

I don't think that is necessarily the case, at least it isn't for me.

 

I stayed because my husband was genuinely remorseful, he accepted full blame and responsibility for his infidelity, his affairs had already ended some time ago, and he was willing to do anything towards reconcilling such as individual and marriage counselling, getting tested for all STD's and bringing his results home to me, full access to everything, confessing to people IRL what he had done and accepting their judgement (he hadn't told a single soul prior to D-day), etc. Plus in our case we didn't have any kids and could have parted ways easily from a financial standpoint and been just fine.

 

When I hear of someone's spouse making little to no effort during the reconcilliation process and expecting the BS to just "get over it" and/or continuing to lie and act shady, that is when I think they should just walk away. Betrayal is incredibly painful as it is, I can't imagine how gut wrenching it is when the WS just wants to sweep everything under the rug.

[autumnnight]

We actually make two decisions. The first decision we make is to stay or to leave, and this decision may vacillate for a long time. Then you throw in the fact that it takes several years to recover from the affair.

 

Then, IF the decision is to stay, and those years have passed, the second decision is "what am I going to choose now that I have stayed?" That is where a BS chooses to make the best of staying or to make sure the darkness of the A colors every turn. Because after 5, 7, 10 years....the focus on the A and coloring everything through the A is a choice.

 

I guess what I am saying is that staying and feeling misery may be par for the course for a few years. But after several years, the misery is, at least in part, a choice.

[badkarma2013]

We actually make two decisions. The first decision we make is to stay or to leave, and this decision may vacillate for a long time. Then you throw in the fact that it takes several years to recover from the affair.

 

Then, IF the decision is to stay, and those years have passed, the second decision is "what am I going to choose now that I have stayed?" That is where a BS chooses to make the best of staying or to make sure the darkness of the A colors every turn. Because after 5, 7, 10 years....the focus on the A and coloring everything through the A is a choice.

 

I guess what I am saying is that staying and feeling misery may be par for the course for a few years. But after several years, the misery is, at least in part, a choice.

 

 

****************************************************************

 

This is very true... I still firmly believe...as I have stated" There will a point that one will get a moment of clarity in the nightmare of being a BS and you Will Know if you can get over the Lies and Betrayal that was handed to you by your WS...

 

You may chose to stay, but in your heart you Knew you could NEVER get over the A

 

Thats why I truly believe ....Many start down the road to R...But few (i'll speak from a BHs point of view..) Ever ..Ever finish it..

[truncated]

I ask this of you, betrayed spouses, who stay for years in a marriage you say is dead. I read so many stories that BS are miserable and yet they stay, and they say they plan to stay until death!

 

This looks the same to me as wayward spouses feeling miserable and staying.

 

You both could leave the marriage but you don't.

 

What do you stay for? What are you miserable about if you're both staying for the same reasons...wouldn't those shared reasons be enough to be happy about?

 

 

just absed upon what one of my friends who was in this situation said, she satys because she remembers a time whent hinsg were good, when she trusted hm and they loved each other. She hops that they can get back to that someday.

 

One thing she did say is that if you are convinced you are miserable, then you likley are ad i becomes a cycle, so she tries to find some good thinsg each day, then build on those. I don't know if she's successful or not, I don't think she even knows the answer to that yet.

[autumnnight]

just absed upon what one of my friends who was in this situation said, she satys because she remembers a time whent hinsg were good, when she trusted hm and they loved each other. She hops that they can get back to that someday.

 

One thing she did say is that if you are convinced you are miserable, then you likley are ad i becomes a cycle, so she tries to find some good thinsg each day, then build on those. I don't know if she's successful or not, I don't think she even knows the answer to that yet.

 

Truncated just beautifully expressed exactly what my opinion is. Once her friend chose to stay, she also chose her outlook on staying, and I think because of that her friend has a higher chance of success.

[TrustedthenBusted]

I think it's like a parental type thing. One of the things that we notice as teenagers is that our parents are harder on us for doing the things that they have done in the past. In essence, they don't want to see you make the same mistake they did. Same goes for BSs who are years out from their D Days. After reading a lot of threads on this site and others, I think if they could do it all over again, they would have divorced their spouses.

 

See though... this is where it doesn't hold water. No matter the reason they stayed, or the length of time they stayed, many are STILL giving advice they themselves do not heed.

 

Not a big deal, but I've seen it discourage a number of people, and it got under my skin immediately until I got used to it.

[harrybrown]

Some days are better than others. Some days are much worse.

 

I believe that she did have an A or affairs. I am about 95% sure that it was her in our bed in the picture with another man.

 

I still do not know who sent me the picture. She denies and denies. It is not her, it was photoshopped. Well I do know my own bed. The picture is not totally clear and it is not a shot of the face. She has her face on his privates.

Can't see his face.

 

we have had some crazy things happen . Roof leaks caused by two bullet holes in the roof over our bedroom.

 

So sometimes in limbo you fight about things. If we do divorce, i have worked so much over the last 40 years. We might make it in retirement together, but if we divorce, and something happens to my health, I will be having a hell of a retirement. Sure she would at least get half, so she would get between 500 to 700k. then she would get the house and I could be looking at alimony for a long time. not a great retirement.

 

I stayed at the beginning for our last son.

[Confused48]

Truncated just beautifully expressed exactly what my opinion is. Once her friend chose to stay, she also chose her outlook on staying, and I think because of that her friend has a higher chance of success.

 

A higher chance of successfully being a two time loser. Being cheated on again that is.

 

I believe that she did have an A or affairs. I am about 95% sure that it was her in our bed in the picture with another man.

 

I still do not know who sent me the picture. She denies and denies. It is not her, it was photoshopped. Well I do know my own bed. The picture is not totally clear and it is not a shot of the face. She has her face on his privates.

Can't see his face.

 

we have had some crazy things happen . Roof leaks caused by two bullet holes in the roof over our bedroom.

 

Sure she would at least get half, so she would get between 500 to 700k. then she would get the house and I could be looking at alimony for a long time. not a great retirement.

 

I stayed at the beginning for our last son.

 

If your son is gone, you should be too. She would not get the house, maybe half the value and you would have to sell it. If there are no kids or if it is not worth a lot, no way would she be able to just take it. The longer you take to D the more alimony you volunteer to pay

[wish-i-knew]

Maybe people stay because the fear of change, or the fear of the unknown is even greater than the reality of staying...

[sidney2718]

I have carefully examined the alternatives and staying was/is the best (least worst choice). I could list all the "whys", but easier to say I can picture the alternative (divorce) very well and for me (my situation) happiness does not reside there for me or my children.

 

I know so many marriages, ones never touched by betrayal, that seem worse. I can hardly recall seeing anyone I know who has been married for a long while - even touch each other in public. At least we still do this. We have somethings, even if others are missing.

 

After a time now, I know neither of us are even close to those people of dDay time. I would say however that both of us understand something was lost. I actually see my wife struggling with this more than I do now.

 

I agree with what you say, but I'm sure you'd agree that there are some marriages in which the tension and bad vibes between H and W are toxic to the children. A number of folks here who have divorced have said that their kids are happier not having to deal with parents who cannot stop fighting.

 

So for me, staying or leaving is a choice that cannot be made in general but must be based on the actual situation in the marriage in question.

[dichotomy]

I agree with what you say, but I'm sure you'd agree that there are some marriages in which the tension and bad vibes between H and W are toxic to the children. A number of folks here who have divorced have said that their kids are happier not having to deal with parents who cannot stop fighting.

 

So for me, staying or leaving is a choice that cannot be made in general but must be based on the actual situation in the marriage in question.

 

 

Of course this is very true in some cases - a toxic marriage due to adultery can be toxic to kids and divorce can make things better in some circumstances. Adultery can trip marriages apart, with anger and more. My mom and dad fought so hard and so badly as he was ending the marriage with his new AP younger woman. I used to cry in my bed, hearing the fights at night, burying my head in the pillow to not hear it. It was awful I was 5.

 

But here is a thing - in some cases the parents keep fighting even while divorced. Many instances of ex parents and the toxic games continuing - damaging kids. I know I was a step kid - and also now a step father. People sometimes think - I will divorce this cheating A hole and they will go away ....or the toxic games will stop. Lawyers, judges, police, tears, and more into our new marriage from the divorced ex and his new wife.

 

Also I go back to "normal marriages" (no adultery) - many kids experience unhealthy parental examples and marriages. Many of my older daughters friends have been around us and think we are some supper husband and wife compared to their parents.

 

But I agree it is very very situation specific. Everyone needs to really think what the choices and possible outcomes are - and do whats best..... or least worst for them and their kids.

Edited January 11, 2015 by dichotomy