Is an affair a character flaw? Or is everyone capable?

[Jono85]

People won't like to hear my opinion on this, but there are always the people who say "I will never cheat" and then the people who do cheat and then say "I never thought I would be a person who would cheat". Really. What does that say?

 

To me it says that it is great to say "I will never cheat", but a significant number of people who say that (as well as many who never say that) DO cheat, because they haven't yet met the circumstance that leads them to it.

 

I think that people who say they will never cheat may in fact never had been in the situation in which they would. Many posts here prove that. Some people won't, in the same situation, although it's still no guarantee that they won't ever cheat. Only time is the guarantee, and only death is the measure of the end.

 

you won't like my opinion, but i think your opinion is bogus!

 

sure, i get what you're saying, but there's a flaw there. part of the reason why some addicts end up caving, and others don't, is because some addicts won't walk into a bar after a terribly sh*tty day, or drive by the liquor store, etc. i've battled forms of addictions in my life (gambling in particular) and I can tell you that there's nothing groundbreaking or revolutionary about resisting urges; we all have the power to make the choices we want to make. but the most important decisions in life are NOT picking up that bottle, or pulling out that visa card to deposit money on bet365, or taking your pants off in your side-girl/guys apartment...it's the decision to take the shorter route home from work that passes the liquor store, or looking up the spreads on this weekends football games just to see if any stick out, or getting that cool girl's number you met b/c it doesn't hurt to have another friend and there's nothing wrong with having a friend of the opposite sex.

 

it's the decisions that lead up the decisions that are the problem imo. you're right, people who've never cheated may have never been tempted the way cheaters have, but often times that is by DESIGN. weak-minded people (and i'm not suggesting I'm "not" weak-minded, b/c i've been guilty of some of these same lapses in making the early decisions) allow themselves to be put in tough situations. they go browsing in the junk food aisle at the grocery store when many of us simply stay away.

[ktya]

I could even understand a one night stand.... But an ongoing affair, that is so long and drawn out, with so much lying, especially if children are involved, you basically must be a different type of person, or at least I would think..

 

My sentiments exactly. When learned of my ex fiancees affair it wasnt that she had probably had sex with him, it was that she carried on with the lies and double life for 8 months that nearly killed me and gave me PTSD. Had i have learned about a drunken whoopsie i would have been upset but not like that.

 

To the OPs question, i think were all capable of cheating especially the longer a relationship goes on, not to say that everyone will. The variety of reasons range from sexual boredom to just being willing to risk an encounter you may never get the opportunity to have ever again.

 

Long term affairs, however, i think show a character flaw. It takes a special kind of person to have a partner at home that you lie to all the time while you romance someone else. An exit affair on the downslope is one thing, but to carry on is something else.

 

Personally, if i get a partner whom im concerned might cheat, id rather propose an open relationship so there was no need to lie.

[Rejected Rosebud]

Most of us don't really know what we are capable of and how deep our weaknesses are inside of us until we are challenged. I never thought I would cheat and I did, I am really not the "type" and I think it's horrible and I still did it, it was a perfect storm of my insecurities, the opportunity, and weakness, I think it shows a character flaw in me because I went against MY OWN morals. I was really young and I do believe I would not ever do that again, as much as I hurt my loved one I hurt myself terribly too, hating myself deeply. But one thing I did learn was to not be too sure of myself and never say never and also be on the lookout for allowing myself to be in sketchy situations.

[Jono85]

Most of us don't really know what we are capable of and how deep our weaknesses are inside of us until we are challenged. I never thought I would cheat and I did, I am really not the "type" and I think it's horrible and I still did it, it was a perfect storm of my insecurities, the opportunity, and weakness, I think it shows a character flaw in me because I went against MY OWN morals. I was really young and I do believe I would not ever do that again, as much as I hurt my loved one I hurt myself terribly too, hating myself deeply. But one thing I did learn was to not be too sure of myself and never say never and also be on the lookout for allowing myself to be in sketchy situations.

 

well if anything it seems you've shown incredible maturity and self-awareness in taking ownership of your choice, which it seems few people are able to do. i'm not even talking about strictly cheating, but i think one of the most frustrating/upsetting things i encounter in everyday life is the complete dissociation people have with the choices they make. it's mind-boggling how often i come across people who INSTINCTIVELY shift the blame for decisions/choices made and it makes me sick. like i said, it's so instinctive and it's so sad. i don't know how society became like this, or when it happened, but it seems rare for people to just take full ownership of choices, as you did. i think that's half the battle, so you should try and forgive yourself if you haven't. you seem to be conscientious of possible temptation triggers for the future.

[jbrent890]

Most of us don't really know what we are capable of and how deep our weaknesses are inside of us until we are challenged. I never thought I would cheat and I did, I am really not the "type" and I think it's horrible and I still did it, it was a perfect storm of my insecurities, the opportunity, and weakness, I think it shows a character flaw in me because I went against MY OWN morals. I was really young and I do believe I would not ever do that again, as much as I hurt my loved one I hurt myself terribly too, hating myself deeply. But one thing I did learn was to not be too sure of myself and never say never and also be on the lookout for allowing myself to be in sketchy situations.

 

I just read your story. Did you guys ever get back together?

[Rejected Rosebud]

I just read your story. Did you guys ever get back together?

Yes! I am so thankful.

[Quiet Storm]

I think it's certainly possible to know that you will not ever cheat, and I don't feel that it's naive to believe that. For me, it's very similar to knowing I will never beat up my grandmother, I will never rob anyone, I will never smoke crack. Just like I know those things, I also know I will never allow myself to get put into a position where I am vulnerable to cheating.

 

If a guy starts flirting with me, I shut him down. If I feel even the slightest attraction to someone, I distance myself. I am very aware of my boundaries and keep them strong at all times. This is the difference between people that don't cheat and those that thought they'd never cheat, but still do- boundaries. You have to be able to recognize what makes you vulnerable, and stay away from any situations that could possibly make you weak.

 

So if your marriage sucks and your husband ignores you, you need to have enough introspection to realize that his neglect means that you have an unmet need. And then you need to have enough self awareness to realize that the unmet needs make you vulnerable. And then you need to have enough forethought to avoid situations where weakness is possible. To me, this thought process does not seem difficult. So it's not that "everyone" has the potential the cheat, its people who have weak boundaries and lack self awareness and introspection. If you are someone that cheated or was cheated on, it's easier to think "this could happen to anyone" instead of realizing the cheater could've prevented it.

 

Another thing is that the status of my marriage has nothing do with my personal integrity (for example the "somethings missing" excuse). So even if my husband was a total dlck and my marriage met none of my needs, I would never disrespect myself or my kids like that. I feel that cheating would be selling myself out, in a way. My personal integrity is more important to me than attention, love, validation, sex, romance. And I don't see that changing, ever.

[Arieswoman]

Central - post 23#

 

Thanks for your post and those stats are interesting but lack detail as to age group/size of sample/first marriage/second marriage/income group/social class etc.

 

I think this one is more accurate...

 

How Common is Cheating & Infidelity Really? | World of Psychology

[Shepp]

The cheater never seemingly wants to admit fault..

Everyone likes to pretend THEIR situation was different, THEY were driven too it, cause truth hurts!

 

 

People say what they want to make themselves feel better!

Whats the first thing 50% of 5year olds say when they get in trouble "ahh so-so did it too" ...it doesn't make it right and it doesn't make it better!

 

People can go round thinking everyother person in the universe would do it if they had the chance (which is complete and utter bull**** - and you know what? Id take offence if anyone turned round and said that to me!) and it still would never ever ever make it right........well maybe it would make it right in there heads but never in mine!

 

 

I read so many threads on here how their new affair partner is just better, they wish they met them earlier, they wish they married them etc.

You have a choice, always. Your actions are yours to act, yours alone.

If you have a job that's secure, comfortable, but gets on your wick sometimes, and someone offers you a new fancy job, that you "love" (maybe?), but with none of the security etc - then you make a choice. Maybe its not easy. But you make one! You don't two time on them!!

 

 

I truly believe its either in you or its not, just like everything else in the world is. Its in you to take risks, or its not. Its in you to take a bullet for someone, or its not. Its in you to pull the trigger, or its not. And I totally believe its in you to have an affair or its not.

 

Because having an affair isn't a robin-hood-crime, its not doing wrong for the right reasons, its not something anyone could be driven to for the good of there family etc

That I can understand. I've done myself things that haven't been right, im not saint, but never to hurt people I love, normally to protect people I love.

 

The thing is of course you don't know what your capable of until your in the situation, or similar situations comprising of the same values, to prove it!

So some people who think there anti-affair obviously would crumble if it was handed to them on a plate. But not all, by no way near all!

Because most people will have been in situations where there honesty, integrity, loyalty... have been tested before, and hence a lot of people would know when there backs against the ropes where they'll stand.

 

 

 

 

 

Its not like me and my wife were loves young dream, we weren't! She had this I want you but I don't want to get into a relationship thing going on - she was taking home a different guy every Saturday night.

I, as a 16/17 year old guy, was being tipped to go places in the world of football - there's a lot of girls out there willing to throw themselves at a (decent enough looking - if I say so myself ) guy who might just make it into football.

Lifes great now but its not like we've always been perfect since we met and I never had cause to look anywhere else. My cheating capacities been tested.

 

 

The thought of going out and screwing some other girl and then coming home to my wife! Coming home to her and lying to her face, pretending like everything was normal, letting her go on and make plans for the two of us, and chat about me with her friends and sort out bday presents for my family - the very thought of it makes me feel physically sick!

It feels like stabbing someone in the back - and for some people that is the answer, but to me its a weak answer.

 

 

But its not even just that I wouldn't do it to me... sounds self-righteous, im not, but...I believe in my own words and I'm proud of the decisions I've made in life, I feel good about them - I wouldn't throw that away so cheap! I like the guy in the mirror and that's worth something to me

[truncated]

People can go round thinking everyother person in the universe would do it if they had the chance (which is complete and utter bull**** - and you know what? Id take offence if anyone turned round and said that to me!) and it still would never ever ever make it right........well maybe it would make it right in there heads but never in mine!

 

But its not even just that I wouldn't do it to me... sounds self-righteous, im not, but...I believe in my own words and I'm proud of the decisions I've made in life, I feel good about them - I wouldn't throw that away so cheap! I like the guy in the mirror and that's worth something to me

 

I don’t understand people saying “you can say you’ll never cheat, but you’re never been in situation x, y or z so you don’t know”.

 

I assume that what they mean is that I’ve never been lonely while I’m with someone, I’ve never been hit on by someone, I’ve never found anyone but my spouse attractive, I’ve never gone without sex for a long period of time, I’ve never been in a really bad place emotionally, I’ve never been out and had too much to drink, etc. The thing is that, after all these years of marriage, I have been all those things or experienced those situations.

 

I also know I’ll never rob a bank, I’ll never have a good singing voice, I’ll never enjoy bluegrass music, I’ll never go over Niagara falls in a barrel, etc.

 

As I said in another post, to me, being with more than one person at a time is physically repugnant. I don’t know why, it just is. Even if it wasn’t, to me cheating isn’t just something that accidentally happens, it ‘s something you choose to do. If you can choose to do it, then conversely, you can just as easily choose not to do it. It’s an ethical decision, and to me, cheating is not an ethical choice.

[clevelander321]

I don’t understand people saying “you can say you’ll never cheat, but you’re never been in situation x, y or z so you don’t know”.

 

I assume that what they mean is that I’ve never been lonely while I’m with someone, I’ve never been hit on by someone, I’ve never found anyone but my spouse attractive, I’ve never gone without sex for a long period of time, I’ve never been in a really bad place emotionally, I’ve never been out and had too much to drink, etc. The thing is that, after all these years of marriage, I have been all those things or experienced those situations.

 

I also know I’ll never rob a bank, I’ll never have a good singing voice, I’ll never enjoy bluegrass music, I’ll never go over Niagara falls in a barrel, etc.

 

As I said in another post, to me, being with more than one person at a time is physically repugnant. I don’t know why, it just is. Even if it wasn’t, to me cheating isn’t just something that accidentally happens, it ‘s something you choose to do. If you can choose to do it, then conversely, you can just as easily choose not to do it. It’s an ethical decision, and to me, cheating is not an ethical choice.

 

 

I agree.. let me give an example..

 

When I was married, I felt talking about my wife poorly to anyone was off limits.. I didn't want my mind poisoned, nor did I want to open the dor to an affair.

 

An example could be my physical therapist after a car wreck.. She was very pretty and friendly.. I was very brief and short.. kept everything to hello and goodbye..

 

After my divorce I opened up to her and an attraction formed we have yet to act on.. But if I opened up to her during my marriage, I am sure I could have been one of those "oh, but it just happened. I didnt plan on cheating"

[truncated]

I agree.. let me give an example..

 

When I was married, I felt talking about my wife poorly to anyone was off limits.. I didn't want my mind poisoned, nor did I want to open the dor to an affair.

 

An example could be my physical therapist after a car wreck.. She was very pretty and friendly.. I was very brief and short.. kept everything to hello and goodbye..

 

After my divorce I opened up to her and an attraction formed we have yet to act on.. But if I opened up to her during my marriage, I am sure I could have been one of those "oh, but it just happened. I didnt plan on cheating"

 

A perrfect example of what I was talking about. You know yourself well enough to know what you will and will not do, not just becuase of your marriage, but becuase fo who you are as a person.

 

I know myself, in this one rea, well enough to say I wont cheat. Mind you, theer are other areas aout myself I don't know and wish I did.

[misty12]

I was one of those people who would be so quick to judge others for cheating. Then my husband cheated, and I had two EA's. I do belive I have character flaws - poor communication skills, coping mechanisms and insecurity. This is what led me to having EA's instead of properly dealing with my husband's one night stand. That being said, everyone has character flaws. It's just a matter of which ones you have. No one is perfect. That's why I don't think that cheaters are bad people.

[Danda]

My step-grandmother confessed to me once that she cheated on her first husband. They had two children together and he was physically very abusive and a bit unhinged. She was terrified to leave him and didn't have a support network, as he had isolated her to the point of having no friends. She still feels conflicted about the cheating to this day. She was pursued by the "other man". She claims they were in love eventually, but from the details she shared I assumed he was just a poacher-type who went after unhappy married ladies (not that I told her this was my thought). Anyway she wanted a divorce so bad but was terrified her then-husband would snap and go after her boys to "get even" (he physically abused them all terribly, other relatives have confirmed this, including her two now-adult sons). She finally divorced when her sons were grown and out of the house, and she managed to arrange a place to stay with a relative. As she was telling me she was saying things like, "I know you're going to think I'm terrible now," and how she still felt horrible about having been a cheater, in spite of the situation and after all these years. She and I were very close and I got the impression she had just always wanted to confess it all to someone.

 

I reassured her she wasn't a terrible person and that I could empathize with her then-situation. It's the only case I've had so far in my life where I knew someone who cheated and didn't harbor any feelings of judgement towards them. It also causes me to acknowledge that there are some circumstances, then, where I wouldn't think lesser of a cheater for having cheated.

 

But compared to that, honestly when I read or hear from people that they had affairs or cheated because their spouse/SO wasn't sexually satisfying enough or whatever, it just gets a cynical, eye-rolling laugh out of me at best.

 

Especially because I was in a relationship for 3 years with a guy who had serious hang-ups about sex, and I never cheated. My reaction is at best "Orly?" when people try to imply that I would be a cheater, too, if only I had gone through X, Y and Z scenarios. Uh-huh.

[Shepp]

As I said in another post, to me, being with more than one person at a time is physically repugnant. I don’t know why, it just is.

This is it, I think some folk are...put off by the repercussions of cheating (be it hurting others, feeling like a bad person, ruining their reputation, whatever), as opposed to the act itself - sex outside your relationship.

But for me at least, sex outside your relationship holds as much allure as keying my own car.. I have no desire to do either.

 

 

 

 

I've spoken about beavers before in relationship to this topic. Beavers mate for life - it takes two parents to raise baby beavers, and build a good dam for them - if they constantly flip flopped on their partner the species would die out!

But what makes beavers mate for life... does an animal really feel social pressure? Or worry about how there actions impact the survival of there species?

I reckon if an animal like a beaver felt the desire to leave and find greener grass it just would. Which means that something in their head doesn't feel that desire - even when times are tough. If its true for beavers, why not for some humans.

[truncated]

This is it, I think some folk are...put off by the repercussions of cheating (be it hurting others, feeling like a bad person, ruining their reputation, whatever), as opposed to the act itself - sex outside your relationship.

But for me at least, sex outside your relationship holds as much allure as keying my own car.. I have no desire to do either.

 

 

 

 

I've spoken about beavers before in relationship to this topic. Beavers mate for life - it takes two parents to raise baby beavers, and build a good dam for them - if they constantly flip flopped on their partner the species would die out!

But what makes beavers mate for life... does an animal really feel social pressure? Or worry about how there actions impact the survival of there species?

I reckon if an animal like a beaver felt the desire to leave and find greener grass it just would. Which means that something in their head doesn't feel that desire - even when times are tough. If its true for beavers, why not for some humans.

It also makes me laugh when some peole say " but our closest living relatives, the bonobos apes are not monogamous. so neither are we". Thing is, we are also closley related to chimps, who do some nasty, agressive things, even to the point of killing infants of another group. Should we accept that as an excuse for crappy behavior?

[WomenWubber]

Never say never.

[AVarma]

I think everybody is capable. You'd be surprised what people will do, even the good ones. I can't tell you how many "good" girls turned out to be more wild than I thought.

[truncated]

I agree that you can't look at a person and say ' they would never cheat", as it's not really possible to know that about a person. Some people who you wuld never suspect of doing something hurtful may have done some pretty horrid things in their life.

 

I do think that someone can know that about themselves, as they know the sum total of their life's experience, their personality type, the way their were raised, their belief system, their "DNA" ( so to speak).

 

There was a point when I was at the worst possible place I think I ever could be, and there were opportunities that presented themsleves where i could have had an affair, but, as I have said, the idea of it is revolting ( physically) to me. If someone can be wired to be monogamous, that would be me. That doesn't make me a better person, just different. Cheating wasn't something i had to try not to do. For ome, it is, and to my way of thinking, they are much more self aware than I am.

[atreides]

thought i would chime in as this thread begs the question in relation to GNO discussion i got into for either sex from another thread, maybe it can add to this thread.

 

First GNO, please i am not going to reply to each case. I think the "elephant in the room" is obvious as to what "type" of GNOs I am speaking about as LS has more than enough stories of infidelity per the conversation. Nor will i engage in "trust" issues because it's not about trust, but for the inverse as in I would not create opportunity or let me say risk in my actions i take for my wife, as with anything.

 

Moreover, i will not refer to GNO going forward as the whole point is about "opportunity"

 

So let me tie this in to the OP's question, yes i believe, including myself that we can all cheat.

 

Some argue "character flaw" i don't subscribe to that as a blanket, although i will subscribe to some "personalities" lend themselves more so then others.

 

However, none of us are immune, i have seen the most mighty fall and have seen in a 18 year marriage a person cheat only once and never again. I bring this up because i look at infidelity as an addiction as in chasing the thrill we get from the attraction and much more but i am trying to be short. Bottom-line is that we cannot control whom we are attracted to, heck we know very little about it frankly.

However we can control what we do with that, we can either enforce boundaries, walk away, any number of things other than to pursue it.

 

However, as one poster said, any set variable of circumstance one person may easily be able to say no while another yes and vice-versa. Some of us will go our whole lives and not cheat and thus i would say our number never came up.

 

Thus cheating is essentially about the "opportunity presenting itself and our own imperfections" as a basis. So in any circumstance where we can alter ourselves with alcohol such as impairing our judgement and placing ourselves in situations where we may have an attraction to a best friend or co-worker, why present the opportunity or risk?

 

I think i am being consistent with this in that even if i fail in the future, that now at this moment on LS I am harsh on waywards to a degree but also respectful to those waywards who put in the work; moreover in the same breath i expect to be judged as well if it were me. We need that good kick in the arse and to be forced to look in the mirror.

 

There are many that discredit any wayward, even those that have made themselves better people in learning what went wrong. I cannot look at them as having a "permanent flaw", heck within my own personal circles, there is a lot of infidelity and many are much better people after recovering from their failures.

 

What i am getting at, is that it should be the principle and not the person to judge as not to use "well i will never cheat, how dare you"

I hold the standard, i may fail one day but i will always respect the standard principle and not change it to suit my guilt and for anyone who has fallen and has recovered to again defend that principle, i hear your advise to others loud and clear.

[dichotomy]

There have been a few rare times in my life where I did something out of the norm - out of character - something shameful - that I think "WTF!?".

 

So yes people are human, they fall. In some cases, with extreme pain or loss or suffering, you discover a weakness or character flaw in yourself. I have.

[dichotomy]

Here is an extreme example -and emotional article on people who face difficult choices about what is cheating.

 

Is It Still Cheating If Your Spouse No Longer Recognizes You? | Ann Brenoff

[NGC1300]

If I'm ever in a relationship again I plan to definitely cheat just in case my partner is cheating as well.

 

Sucks, but I have to do what I have to do.

[autumnnight]

If a person defines, has, and consistently uses very good boundaries, I do not believe they will ever cheat.

 

As far as nature, some genetic bent, or lifetime sociopathy: that is what jaded people need to tell themselves to feel better.

[cocorico]

 

"It isn't so much we want to leave the person we are with as we want to leave the person we have become"

 

I think that was exactly it for my H.

 

He had fallen into the R as a teen, and decades later found that the person he had become in the M was so far removed from his core values and the person he deep down knew himself to be... yet he felt trapped. How could he escape without betraying his youthful promise to save her from the Big Bad World? How could he walk away and subject his kids - who had suffered terrible trauma when their mother had walked out after attacking him physically in front of them - to another separation after seeing what they had gone through the last time? And yet... How could he survive through just giving and giving, without receiving any emotional warmth or love himself?

 

So when the A beckoned, he was very vulnerable to its call. He could start afresh, be himself, reconnect with his core values and have a healthy R that featured mutual respect, physical warmth and all the things he missed in his M. And when he saw that not only was that possible, but also sustainable, he sought IC to help him deal with the issues that kept him in his vestigial M so that he could shake off the co-narcissism / codependency and become the person he knew himself to be, the person his family knew him to be before the M had tested him into the shrunken, diminished version his xW needed him to be.