WOW! I'm shocked

[not_atypical]

I came to this site to get a handle on my now ex breaking up with me after 14yrs on and off and being in a mutually abusive and drug/alcohol addiction that we have both been struggling with since our teenage years. We met when I was 26 and she 21. I have been physically abusive and emotionally abusive. She has been more emotionally abusive than physical but has resorted to physical abuse when I haven't reacted to her abusive behavior. I am not saying she is the reason I accept that I alone am responsible for my part in our relationship.

 

Anyway for the past few years we have been trying to overcome our addictions with varying success only to drag each other back into it ending with drinking each day.

 

She went to treatment last July and I moved out east (she is in BC I am in Ontario) she has been clean since and I am 8months behind her in that respect only quitting very recently.

 

Just before christmas I was really drunk and called her at her sober living house as I was ****ed up and thinking irrationally and her cold response resulted in my being verbally abusive to her. A day or so later she dumped me. I have tried texting her (I haven't called her and I do know her number) via FB begging her to give me time till I can get sober and complete treatment like her.

 

Our original plan was for her to move out here once i had a few months clean. I have been struggling with trying to stay sober and complete treatment. I don't speak to my family I have no close friends that I can talk to. We both know that our relationship was ****ed up and that we hurt each other, but we (until now I guess) didn't want to give up on the truly great things in our relationship. She is the most beautiful person physically and emotionally (when we aren't going through the abusive cycle and ****ed up on drugs) and she feels (or felt the same way about me). I've never felt closer to someone as I have with her. I know it is more than what the responses I've read throughout this post.

 

It ****ed me up reading them and it horrifies me to think that I am thought of in the way this guy has been. I am sure that she has been getting the same advice as I've read here. It sucks because like the responses I've read they are based on minimal information. I have heard of abusers isolating their victims in such ways and I can say that that was not in anyway my intention or plan. One of the responses in particular was so full of hate it prompted me to share this. I wrote her a long letter via FB (and she hates long typed letters) telling her that I would move back after treatment if she wasn't ready to move out here. I know she has supports and the last thing I want is to jeopardize either of our chances of staying sober and or breaking our cycle of abuse.

 

I love her with all my heart. I never had what I had with her with anyine else EVER and I have thought I was in love before. This may sound gooey and sappy but anyway, when we lay together our hearts beat at the same time, when we kiss we can breathe each others air, and we have even read each others minds. While hitchiking and waiting for a ride we tested it a couple times and it was really messed up. Thinking of soft purple pillows over and over sending her the color she got purple yellow. the other time green or blue she couldn't make her mind up all I got was glue. It doesn't matter how we lay we are comfortable. And as she ages and changes I still find her as beuatiful as when we met. She lost all her teeth to bad genetics 3yrs ago and I still kissed her the same way. It doesn't matter to me, and she felt the same way about me, (though I haven't changed much physically). I wanted to spend the rest of my life with her and it really ****ing sucks that now she's clean it's over and that she didn't wait for me to get my **** together (which I'm still doing regardless). She hasn't even said anything more than two lines on her reasons or given me anything like closure at all. I wish she would but know I can't make her. It's been a month now and if it weren't for my roommate's cats (who sleep on my bed and hang out in my room 99% of the time, I have a weird affinity with cats even ones that bite and scratch all other humans) I would be feeling even worse than I am.

 

Anyway my point is not every guy out there is a monster just because they led ****ed up lives and learned ****ed up behaviors. It doesn't mean that the person can't change. Maybe the guy has no clue to what he is doing. Point it out to him if he doesn't see it and doesn't want to change then yes I agree leave, but if you love the guy and have anything close to what I had with my ex don't give up without trying to make a go of it. For the longest time I wasn't even aware I was being abusive if I didn't hit her and it took her even longer to be able to admit her end in things without saying I deserved it etc... or using my behavior as an excuse. I have never been OK or justified my physical abuse towards her. I did however used to blame my verbal abuse on her more than myself though and I now understand (though am not always able to keep my **** together yet and not say ****ty things at times) that I am responsible for that as well.

 

Not everyone male or female fits into the "typical abuser" frame even if they have acted out like one.

Edited January 14, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[not_atypical]

I originally posted this in another thread but had it moved as it was deemed off topic. I was thinking I should have posted it on it's own.

 

Anyway if it seems to talk about stuff that doesn't seem to quite make sense or fit that is the reason. I originally posted it to a thread regarding the responses someone got about wanting their gf to up and move to the other side of the country and how the responses all stated the guy way an evil manipulative abuser that had zero chance of changing and that she should dump him immediately after only a few lines on what was happening without ever knowing either of them and him not at all. Not one response I read had come from the other partners perspective or from anyone that was either trying to or had managed to change abusive patterns.

 

And yes I realize my username is contradictory it's meant to be or not depending on which Sy-lable you put the em-fasis on

Edited January 14, 2015 by not_atypical

[Light Breeze]

I agree that people can change.

 

But for many people abuse is a dealbreaker.

[Satu]

The thing that matters most is that you focus on yourself and your own recovery.

 

Focus on that as if your life depends on it, because it does.

[Zahara]

Until you are able to stay clean consistently and for the long term, you should not contemplate relationships. I think you should leave her alone as she tries to battle her own addictions. It is a step in the right direction for the two of you and granted it hurts you badly but what is the alternative?

 

I have a friend that was an alcoholic. She has been sober for 8 years now. She's said to me that everyday is a battle. She goes to AA three times a week without fail. And one thing she's said to me is that the worst thing to do is to date someone that has the same issues.

 

You were drunk a few weeks ago and you call her at her sober house? Respect her need for change. As YOU said, "if he doesn't see it and doesn't want to change then yes I agree leave." In your own words. Let her be. It's taken 14 years of absolute dysfunction and you're still doing it. You need to leave.

 

I don't have tolerance for abuse. Growing up with an alcoholic father and being physically and verbally abused throughout my childhood, I turned the path. Learned behavior it may be but it's also a CHOICE. You made the choice to be a product of your past. You can't keep saying I'm not a horrible person because it was learned behavior. You KNOW it's wrong. You can change that. And one way to do that is to close the chapter with your ex and start focusing on making changes for YOU, because YOU want to heal and YOU want a better life for YOURSELF -- and not for reasons to get your ex back, that's what it seems like. The latter will only cause you to revert because that kind of change is motivated by all the wrong reasons and almost always is only temporary.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Zahara

[not_atypical]

Until you are able to stay clean consistently and for the long term, you should not contemplate relationships. I think you should leave her alone as she tries to battle her own addictions. It is a step in the right direction for the two of you and granted it hurts you badly but what is the alternative?

 

I have a friend that was an alcoholic. She has been sober for 8 years now. She's said to me that everyday is a battle. She goes to AA three times a week without fail. And one thing she's said to me is that the worst thing to do is to date someone that has the same issues.

 

You were drunk a few weeks ago and you call her at her sober house? Respect her need for change. As YOU said, "if he doesn't see it and doesn't want to change then yes I agree leave." In your own words. Let her be. It's taken 14 years of absolute dysfunction and you're still doing it. You need to leave.

 

I don't have tolerance for abuse. Growing up with an alcoholic father and being physically and verbally abused throughout my childhood, I turned the path. Learned behavior it may be but it's also a CHOICE. You made the choice to be a product of your past. You can't keep saying I'm not a horrible person because it was learned behavior. You KNOW it's wrong. You can change that. And one way to do that is to close the chapter with your ex and start focusing on making changes for YOU, because YOU want to heal and YOU want a better life for YOURSELF -- and not for reasons to get your ex back, that's what it seems like. The latter will only cause you to revert because that kind of change is motivated by all the wrong reasons and almost always is only temporary.

 

It was about 5% dysfunction but that 5% was horrible. It's why we stayed together for 14yrs and when we did break up got back together.

 

And yes I do want a better life for myself. Though it is hard to not put her into that reason too. It sucks the most because now when it seems we are both (at the same time(ish) are making the change that she chooses to end it) I haven't used crack or heroin since 2009 (the odd slip here and there maybe 5-6 uses with huge periods in between) we were both social drinkers up until our dog Maggie died it really messed us up. She started drinking every day and eventually I joined in. So we both ended up physically addicted. I maintained around 2 beers a day since I moved out east and we weren't physically together anymore most of the time though not always till I stopped altogether recently. I used to keep track of the days clean until I quit crack in 2009 (am down to 18mls methadone from once being on 160mls per day) but found that it drove me nuts to count days and kept it in my mind resulting in more relapses which sucked worse because of the days lost because of a slip.

 

Since I stopped doing that I have had more success at staying off it. It really really really really sucks that one stupid drunken call could be the straw that broke the camels back after all we went through and up until that call were both committed. I highly doubt she was lying to me about how she felt, we have tried to lie to each other and rarely have ever pulled it off. It hurts the most that she wasn't willing in the end to give me the time to clean up and get help. I remember many phone calls where I was sober completely and she couldn't hold a conversation because she was so high. I feel like I made a mistake actually mistake doesn't convey how I feel about her not doing the same for me. Not every couple is doomed if they stay together (and apart at the same time) that had a relationship like ours. And the hope that kept both of us believing that for so long were the few that had been in addiction and dysfunction for years and cleaned up and are still together that we met at meetings. It can be done I have seen it possible.

 

Anyway now I'm just rambling and feeling more abandoned, heartbroken, and full of regret at that stupid ****ing call. I knew we were on a thin thread and that it wouldn't take much to break it. Hindsight is a bitch.

 

I know I'll get over her eventually we broke up for almost two years once and literally the day I was going to ask a woman I was attracted to and knew was attracted to me out for dinner. It was the first time I was doing so having come to terms that finally her and I were truly over when I ran into an old friend who told me he'd just seen my ex 5mins before a block away. I detoured just to tell her I was sorry for my part in our breakup and within 5mins we got back together. It wasn't what I expected at all. That was in 2007. Now we are thousands of klics away from each other it really feels like it is more than her just being hurtful in a revenge way. At least before I was using drugs and alcohol to bury the pain without it is far more constantly painful to go through.

Edited January 14, 2015 by not_atypical

[Satu]

I really hear your pain.

 

I think you need a fresh start. Not with her, not with a new relationship, but with yourself.

 

That fresh start gives you a chance to grow into the person you really want to be.

 

Seize that chance and move forward.

[Zahara]

It was about 5% dysfunction but that 5% was horrible. It's why we stayed together for 14yrs and when we did break up got back together.

 

I find that hard to believe. Substance abuse and alcohol abuse doesn't allow one to function on a level that is healthy and present. To top that off, physical, verbal and emotional abuse? You're telling me that 5% of your relationship was dysfunctional. I'm sorry. You're in denial. Having lived that life, it was more 95% dysfunction and 5% normalcy. Whatever the case, it wasn't a good partnership between the two of you and it possibly won't be in the future. She's on a different path and is seeing life in a different way as she makes these changes for herself. And she may even be realizing that what she had with you wasn't good for her as she's starting to get her clarity.

 

Now we are thousands of klics away from each other it really feels like it is more than her just being hurtful in a revenge way. At least before I was using drugs and alcohol to bury the pain without it is far more constantly painful to go through.

 

I don't think she is being vengeful. In her own way she's probably dealing with her own anger and I'm sure there are a host of emotions she's battling. You did call her at her sober house and verbally abuse her. What do you think she's going to do? You just showed her once again that you're that same person.

 

I hope you are seeking AA, and other sources of support to help you get through this. Change is about you. You can't do it for anyone else but you.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Zahara

[not_atypical]

 

You can't keep saying I'm not a horrible person because it was learned behavior. You KNOW it's wrong. You can change that.

 

Saying I am a horrible person because of my actions is counter productive and untrue if it were true then it would never change and there would be no point to therapy. It is the same as accepting that if you allow yourself to be abused it is because that is you are a victim and always will be. I spent most of my youth being abused physically by my stepfather and bullied horribly in school. I've been stabbed on two occasions suffered broken ribs a fractured skull and more because I acted like a victim to a degree I still do but stopped just curling up and taking the abuse. I know I have PTSD I know I can sometimes (though not always) over react or react badly to being abused and sometimes even be the bully verbally and I have great shame admitting that. I don't see violence as a gender issue which doesn't help. When there is violence between genders for the man it's "you are a piece of **** for hitting a girl or ha ha you got your ass kicked by a girl" for the woman it's "good for you you beat him or you poor thing you got beaten". We were both abusive to each other when we fought instead of resolving conflict properly.

 

But if for one moment my horrible actions made who I am on a normal basis just as horrible (sorry if I am not able to put into words properly what I meant to convey) It would be way easier for me to get over her and our relationship wouldn't have gone past a year. I wasn't and am not trying to minimize my actions. Everything that makes us us is learned and if it can be learned then it can be unlearned. But if people go around believing that they are horrible or evil or worthless pieces of crap because of something they did it makes changing all but impossible.

 

Violence whether verbal or physical is bad believing you are bad or horrible comes from shame which is one of the most brutal of emotions. And often leads us to believe things about ourselves that aren't true.

 

And yes I admitted I want her back. And one of the things in treatment I learned was that you DO need reasons to help stay clean but that shouldn't be your only reason. I have no reason whatsoever to downplay or exaggerate or minimize what I wrote in the first post you don't know who I am I never have to face you or anyone so it takes my ego for the large part out of the equation.

 

I have for the most part respected her wishes besides the couple of pleas for her to think about it some more. I haven't called her once since on the phone. and after my last message won't bug her again. I unfriended her on Facebook too so I don't see her posts and her mine in the future unless she wants to reconnect. One reason is because she changed her email address from the one she had when we were together and then promptly posted her new one on Facebook to her friends with her number after telling me she moved. The number is the same and belongs to the sober house. I haven't let her know I now she lied about moving and that I know her new email address.

 

She isn't very computer savvy and I don't want to cause her to have to change everything again because she made a mistake with FB privacy and notifications. Maybe part of it is because I can't bring myself to close that door and maybe a larger part than I want to admit to myself. The hardest part is not going back to BC and tracking her down after I finish treatment. Not to key her car type of thing or stalk her. And the more I yap and ramble on here helps me to think more about not writing her another message just to clarify whatever I think I missed or wrote wrong etc... I over analyze and fret a lot over what I am trying to convey even though I am not always able to write it down as accurately as I am to think it

[not_atypical]

I find that hard to believe. Substance abuse and alcohol abuse doesn't allow one to function on a level that is healthy and present. To top that off, physical, verbal and emotional abuse? You're telling me that 5% of your relationship was dysfunctional. I'm sorry. You're in denial. Having lived that life, it was more 95% dysfunction and 5% normalcy. Whatever the case, it wasn't a good partnership between the two of you and it possibly won't be in the future. She's on a different path and is seeing life in a different way as she makes these changes for herself. And she may even be realizing that what she had with you wasn't good for her as she's starting to get her clarity.

 

 

 

I don't think she is being vengeful. In her own way she's probably dealing with her own anger and I'm sure there are a host of emotions she's battling. You did call her at her sober house and verbally abuse her. What do you think she's going to do? You just showed her once again that you're that same person.

 

I hope you are seeking AA, and other sources of support to help you get through this. Change is about you. You can't do it for anyone else but you.

 

What I meant by that is our nasty horrid fights. Whenever we have been away from drugs or excessive alcohol it's great I couldn't ask for more.

 

She knew I was still drinking. I called her to late and after drinking more than usual feeling sad and reacted poorly to her not meeting my needs which I thought at the time and can now see was totally selfish of me. I realize it's in all likelihood really over it still doesn't stop me from praying she'll reconsider and wait to see if I can make it like she has.

 

There's no way I can believe I have fooled myself for so long into thinking we had something that was just dysfunctional and that I am in denial. I also realize that is also a point that cannot be defended as it only reinforces the person accusing denial.

[not_atypical]

I really hear your pain.

 

I think you need a fresh start. Not with her, not with a new relationship, but with yourself.

 

That fresh start gives you a chance to grow into the person you really want to be.

 

Seize that chance and move forward.

 

I know what you say is true. I just haven't got there yet

[Zahara]

Saying I am a horrible person because of my actions is counter productive and untrue if it were true then it would never change and there would be no point to therapy. It is the same as accepting that if you allow yourself to be abused it is because that is you are a victim and always will be.

 

Unfortunately, it's quite a difficult task to look at abusers and empathize. I'm not saying you are a horrible person but you lamenting about people viewing you as a monster is unfortunately the nature of the beast. Until you prove change, then the view may change. But only days you verbally abused her again. And you crossed a boundary and totally disrespected her. Talking and doing are two different things. You want to remove yourself from a label, then start working on change. You don't get to whine about how the world is against you while you stay a repeat offender.

 

I spent most of my youth being abused physically by my stepfather and bullied horribly in school. I've been stabbed on two occasions suffered broken ribs a fractured skull and more because I acted like a victim to a degree I still do but stopped just curling up and taking the abuse. I know I have PTSD I know I can sometimes (though not always) over react or react badly to being abused and sometimes even be the bully verbally and I have great shame admitting that. I don't see violence as a gender issue which doesn't help. When there is violence between genders for the man it's "you are a piece of **** for hitting a girl or ha ha you got your ass kicked by a girl" for the woman it's "good for you you beat him or you poor thing you got beaten". We were both abusive to each other when we fought instead of resolving conflict properly.

 

It's the past. I know where you come from. My father broke bones when he beat me. I've seen him knock my mother out time and time again. I've seen him stab my uncle who was protecting me from him. Violence every other day in the home. Alcohol reeking everytime I walked through the door. I was bullied in school for how I looked, for being poor, for not having nice clothes, for having bad hair and teeth. It was all traumatizing. It broke everything about me. I'm sure it broke you. But you cannot keep replaying these things in your head and allowing it to drive you to keep that monster alive within you. Yes, some people are stronger and some people deal with trauma differently. But at the end of the day, 14 years later, it becomes a choice.

 

If she never left you, and you both were still together, do you think there would be push for change? I think you both would still be together doing the same song and dance. She had to be the one to take that step for change, and it's probably the reason why you have no alternative but to focus on change yourself.

 

Everything that makes us us is learned and if it can be learned then it can be unlearned. But if people go around believing that they are horrible or evil or worthless pieces of crap because of something they did it makes changing all but impossible.

 

Then make that change. Until you do that, you stay in that black hole.

 

Maybe part of it is because I can't bring myself to close that door and maybe a larger part than I want to admit to myself.

 

You need to close the door. Selfless rather than selfish. If you care about her recovery and her need to move forward, you will release her.

[Zahara]

There's no way I can believe I have fooled myself for so long into thinking we had something that was just dysfunctional and that I am in denial. I also realize that is also a point that cannot be defended as it only reinforces the person accusing denial.

 

It's your relationship. If you believe that there was high level of normalcy in a drug and abuse induced relationship, then it is your belief. Looking from the outside, with indifference and clarity, and having seen what a relationship like that entails, I unfortunately find it hard to comprehend. You don't have to defend it.

 

I wish you all the best in your recovery. Please seek sources of support and stay consistent in your path to healing. You deserve peace in your life. Strive for that and focus inward. Make this count, for YOU.

 

Good luck to you.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Zahara