Is "skinny fit" an unrealistic goal for most women?

[thefooloftheyear]

I'm certainly happy that some muscle on women is seen as acceptable now. I don't think the "waif" image of the 1990s was good news at all. However, I'm thinking more in terms of 20-22% (female). If a man said to me, "I think 6-7% male is impressive looking but personally I'd rather be 10-15% I'd respect his right to that preference...and I'd also agree with it. I think the male bodies in that range are far more pleasing to the eye.

 

While I do get where you're coming from, that women should see a strong body as something to be proud of. But, Emily Sky in that pic in the opening post is just a little bit too much in the low range for me to think the overall look is pleasing. A lot of women are saying "no, that's not how I want to look" and actually I think that's quite a healthy thing because they're intuitively thinking in terms of a healthy fat ratio. I've seen other pictures of her where she looks great. But it seems to vary, and I suspect it varies mainly depending on her fat percentage. I googled to see what it is, and found this:

 

 

"I would like to be 8% by mid August". That was a few years ago. 8% for a woman. It's at the bottom range of the fat percentage experts say is necessary to sustain life. I can see other stuff where she's advocating a very healthy diet, and that's great. But I still can't help thinking that while she's saying all the right things about following clean, healthy eating, the fact that she has set goals like that for herself is concerning.

 

I'm sure Emily Skye doesn't read Loveshack - and yes, I would hate for her to read a thread like this and feel attacked. Particularly given the history of depression and body issues that she's apparently had. But I do believe she looks far better (not just in her body but also in her face) in those pictures where she looks as though she's carrying a bit more fat than she is in the pics at the start of this thread. However, it's hard to tell as professional pics tend to be photoshopped to create a smoother appearance (which some fat, in the right quantities, helps to create).

 

Id agree....8% is nuts...Even men cant really sustain that level for very long..

 

This looks better, imo...Probably around 14-16% bf...Although I am no expert judge on bf levels of women...Certainly she isnt ripped, but her body is strong..Yeah....I know her tits are fake..

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8mXXcT5oYA

 

You wont get an ass like that from anything but training with weights or freak genetics..

 

TFY

[hotpotato]

I'm certainly happy that some muscle on women is seen as acceptable now. I don't think the "waif" image of the 1990s was good news at all. However, I'm thinking more in terms of 20-22% (female). If a man said to me, "I think 6-7% male is impressive looking but personally I'd rather be 10-15% I'd respect his right to that preference...and I'd also agree with it. I think the male bodies in that range are far more pleasing to the eye.

 

 

Hmm...I guess according to that pic, I'd like to be around 15-17% body fat. I'm not sure. Next time I look how I want to look, maybe i'll get my bf % taken professionally. I like to see lines.

 

Most people not even pros stay superlean all year long.

[hotpotato]

Id agree....8% is nuts...Even men cant really sustain that level for very long..

 

This looks better, imo...Probably around 14-16% bf...Although I am no expert judge on bf levels of women...Certainly she isnt ripped, but her body is strong..Yeah....I know her tits are fake..

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8mXXcT5oYA

 

You wont get an ass like that from anything but training with weights or freak genetics..

 

TFY

 

She almost has a small butt and small boobs for a bikini pro lol

I can't think of any ifbb bikini pros who have real breasts. Most women aren't gonna be a 34F, and I guess that's what judges want to see.

Thanks for the exercise vid

[Imported]

I wonder if she has a business card that says "Bikini Pro"

[MidwestUSA]

Women can get the benefits of weight resistance training without dipping below 18-20 % bf (the ideal to my eye). It's the best of both worlds.

 

That's about where I'd like to be!

[Robert Z]

I was reading up on HIIT/HIIE [high-intensity intermittent exercise] and noticed this paper that is specific to young women.

 

 

Results:

Both exercise groups demonstrated a significant improvement (P<0.05) in cardiovascular fitness. However, only the HIIE group had a significant reduction in total body mass (TBM), fat mass (FM), trunk fat and fasting plasma insulin levels. There was significant fat loss (P<0.05) in legs compared to arms in the HIIE group only. Lean compared to overweight women lost less fat after HIIE. Decreases in leptin concentrations were negatively correlated with increases in VO[sIZE=2]2peak[/sIZE] (r=−0.57, P<0.05) and positively correlated with decreases in TBM (r=0.47; P<0.0001). There was no significant change in adiponectin levels after training.

 

Conclusions:

 

HIIE three times per week for 15 weeks compared to the same frequency of SSE exercise was associated with significant reductions in total body fat, subcutaneous leg and trunk fat, and insulin resistance in young women.

International Journal of Obesity - The effects of high-intensity intermittent exercise training on fat loss and fasting insulin levels of young women

[xxoo]

I was reading up on HIIT/HIIE [high-intensity intermittent exercise] and noticed this paper that is specific to young women.

 

 

 

International Journal of Obesity - The effects of high-intensity intermittent exercise training on fat loss and fasting insulin levels of young women

 

I love HIIT. It keeps me lean and toned, and I'm not even young

 

But I noticed that the subjects in the study you linked had average bf in the 35% range. This goes back to the idea that it is much easier to go from chubby to lean than from lean to very lean with defined abs. For someone like me, who is already around 20% in bf, it would take big sacrifices to dip lower and get "ripped". And since I personally prefer my body at 20% bf than 17% bf, I'm not going to make those additional efforts. That's the point women are trying to make.

[Imajerk17]

I reopened this thread and... Holy crap this was a lot of writing! NIP I mean no disrespect but I must admit that I didn't read your latest posts on here, they are just way too long and convoluted for someone like me to follow!

 

Anyway I can tell you as a guy that it's much simpler than that to attract us. Forget about societal trends or specific body-fat percentages. A guy likes what he likes nevermind what the media says is "in". And most of us hardly even notice an extra 5 pounds. A really broad spectrum of female body types will be attractive to plenty of guys.

 

My general advice: Strong is sexy, shapely is sexy, feminine is sexy, a woman who goes through the extra effort to look good for us is sexy. Lift weights do HIIT and take pride in looking good and smelling good for us.

[Robert Z]

And since I personally prefer my body at 20% bf than 17% bf, I'm not going to make those additional efforts. That's the point women are trying to make.

 

 

I wasn't making a point. I think 20% is pretty lean for a woman.

 

I'm trying to get down to 10% bf this year which is why I've been reading. When I was 70 pounds overweight and passing out from something as benign a glass of milk, I never imagined that this would ever be possible.

 

The reason my sb is pushing so hard is that she is a perfectionist in everything she does. She just wants to be as fit as possible while she is in her prime. It is a personal challenge for her and not an obsession with her body. For a time I wasn't sure why she is pushing so much. But it all makes sense. It is in her nature.

 

... though I must say, when she took that dip to 18%, I could see it in the shape of her butt. She looked great before but I guess there was room for improvement. Not that I minded at all but I'll take it.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Robert Z

[Robert Z]

btw, I just tried some pan fried spinach, kale, broccoli, and onion, with some prime roast beef slices from the deli. Mmmmmm Just add some garlic and pepper and a few splashes of Tabasco chipotle and you have a mighty fine meal. I do a lot of stir fry but this is especially simple and tasty.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Robert Z

[Phoe]

btw, I just tried some pan fried spinach, kale, broccoli, and onion, with some prime roast beef slices from the deli. Mmmmmm Just add some garlic and pepper and a few splashes of Tabasco chipotle and you have a mighty fine meal. I do a lot of stir fry but this is especially simple and tasty.

 

That actually sounds fantastic right now...

 

I love kale and broccoli and beef and hot sauce.

 

literally perfect...

 

 

For me, the food I eat no longer even takes thought. I buy the same things every time at the grocery store. I make the same couple of meals. For breakfast, lunch, dinner, and snacks, I eat the same handful of meals. There's only so many different combinations. And all those combinations fit within my calorie goal, no matter how you put them, and all the food choices are things I REALLY enjoy eating (lots of meat!)

 

That way, I don't even have to think about it. I'm not counting calories. I'm not obsessing over portions. I'm eating the things I like to eat, with the knowledge that they are exactly what I need.

 

This alone keeps me at about 20-21% without any effort. When I add in minimal cardio (emphasis on minimal. I really hate cardio), and put my focus on lifting, that is an easy bump to 19%.

 

I barely have to do anything. I eat, and I spend maybe 45 minutes in the gym about 3-4 times a week. That's really not too much time out of my life.

[Robert Z]

I love kale and broccoli and beef and hot sauce.

 

literally perfect

 

 

Me too. And I have gotten completely hooked on kale! I looooove kale. But I have read that you have to be careful to not eat too much. I was eating kale every day but am now limiting it to 3 times a week or so at most.

 

Someone else posted about warm water and lemon to help with the GI system. Apparently kale is a GI supercharger. It is a super-super-food.

 

 

and almonds, carrots, and broccoli for good skin...

Edited January 24, 2015 by Robert Z

[elaine567]

https://www.fertilityauthority.com/lifestyle/exercise/over-exercise-fertility -

Overdoing Exercise

Studies have found that exercise can cause infertility in men when the body is overheated too often. When body temperatures rise above 96 degrees, sperm is more likely to die and leave a man infertile. Men who are underweight and have low body fat may also experience low sperm motility (how fast sperm moves) and sperm morphology (the sperm’s ideal shape).

 

Women who exercise too much may lose too much body fat, which can affect estrogen levels and cause irregular periods (oligomenorrhea), or even stop menstruation (amenorrhea), both of which will leave her infertile. This situation may be called hypothalamic amenorrhea.

 

But even if menstrual cycles remain consistent, some research has found that just four hours a week of exercise lowered conception by 40 percent. Cardiovascular workouts like aerobics and running also resulted in a reduced chance in live births after in vitro fertilization in 30 percent of the study participants.

[ufo8mycat]

However, many female athletes have a body fat percentage of around 10%. This information can also be obtained easily online if you want to question my credibility still.

.

 

Some are but plenty are not. 10% is low, even for athletes and most sports do not require you to be this lean unless power to weight is an indicator.

 

Comparing vastly different body types of olympic athletes:

Comparing Vastly Different Body Types of Olympic Athletes - My Modern Met

 

Generally, for women when body fat drops below around 14% your period stops. This obviously affects fertility as well as other oestrogen dependant factors such as bone density. Athletes with a history of low body fat and missing periods are at significantly increased risk of osteoporosis.

 

Also, don't confuse eating disorders with disorder eating. Many athletes have the latter - unhealthy habits and relationship with food without having a diagnosed eating disorder. Much of this comes from institute dieticians and coaches. Who have no issue calling you fat, even when your not.

[Maleficent]

 

I think the next time a woman points out some really good looking guy with his 8 pack abs on here I will point out that he probably has fertility issues because of his low body fat percentage. I wonder how that will go over with the ladies. Probably won't get all the support you get for saying the same thing about women.

 

 

I'm not sure what is the point you are trying to make here.

 

It's a known fact that going below a certain weight affects a woman's entire reproductive system, as well as affecting her ability to not only get pregnant but bring the pregnancy to term.

 

I don't recall seeing a similar study in men.

[hotpotato]

I wonder if she has a business card that says "Bikini Pro"

 

The large breasts, small toned waist, and big butts give it away lol!

[hotpotato]

Never once did you cite any sources for your information, but suddenly when I give out info, which is legitimate by the way, my credibility comes into question. Of course, because my information does not cater to your argument. If you'd like to find out, just use Google. I'm sure that's how you came up with your stats.

 

 

 

Sure, you can certainly be reasonably fit as a woman with 18% body fat. Body fat percentages are not a completely reliable indicator of fitness. However, many female athletes have a body fat percentage of around 10%. This information can also be obtained easily online if you want to question my credibility still.

 

I think the next time a woman points out some really good looking guy with his 8 pack abs on here I will point out that he probably has fertility issues because of his low body fat percentage. I wonder how that will go over with the ladies. Probably won't get all the support you get for saying the same thing about women.

 

Female athletes most likely are not worried about fertility anyway!

 

Back to the question, I think low body fat can be done, but it's difficult with the traditional western culture (long working hours, eating out a lot, etc). I think Ashley Kaltwasser stays thin all year long (from what I see), but she has a career in fitness and competes a lot year round. Plus, she's one of those people who are naturally athletic and been active her entire life.

[Robert Z]

I get a kick out of this ad that is always running here at LS, for men over 50.

http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/simgad/9769656891141381534

 

 

Okay, impressive but not exactly what every man is looking for!

[Maleficent]

I get a kick out of this ad that is always running here at LS, for men over 50.

http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/simgad/9769656891141381534

 

 

Okay, impressive but not exactly what every man is looking for!

 

Aren't these the ads that show up randomly based on your google searches?

[MidwestUSA]

Aren't these the ads that show up randomly based on your google searches?

 

Has to be! I keep getting ads for cowboy boots and Pilot G2 pens!

[Robert Z]

Aren't these the ads that show up randomly based on your google searches?

 

Haha, no, or it would be about robotics and sensors.

 

But apparently they know I'm over fifty and single again if its targeted. Obviously they never checked my boob preferences.

Edited January 25, 2015 by Robert Z

[thefooloftheyear]

The whole thing about "this is unhealthy bf levels" and " I dont want to spend my life in a gym"...blah blah....

 

The reality is, unlike obesity where all one has to do is plop their fat behind in front of a TV and engorge themselves, getting to "x" levels of fitness or BF requires the type of work, dedication, and genetics that almost no one has....so I dont see it as a national crisis or anything...

 

Like Arnold Schwarzenegger once said when someone remarked " I woudnt ever want to look like you"....Arnold responded ..."Dont worry, ...you never will"....

 

TFY

[Robert Z]

The reality is, unlike obesity where all one has to do is plop their fat behind in front of a TV and engorge themselves, getting to "x" levels of fitness or BF requires the type of work, dedication, and genetics that almost no one has....so I dont see it as a national crisis or anything...

 

 

No, but obesity and weight are a national health crisis... or soon will be when the medical costs start hitting home. No doubt this already plays a large role in the cost of health care generally. And it isn't just lifestyles. Foods engineered to be addictive are killing people. Never mind portion size. What is the largest Big Gulp jug that I've seen, I think 128 ounces!

Edited January 25, 2015 by Robert Z

[thefooloftheyear]

No, but obesity and weight are a national health crisis... or soon will be when the medical costs start hitting home. No doubt this already plays a large role in the cost of health care generally. And it isn't just lifestyles. Foods engineered to be addictive are killing people. Never mind portion size. What is the largest Big Gulp jug that I've seen, I think 128 ounces!

 

No argument, and I agree...

 

I guess my point is that its a lot easier to be a fat slob than a ripped, muscular, low bf person(especially a woman)...SO much harder that its almost not worth mentioning(people that fit that teeeny category of fit/muscular and ripped)..

 

No sense really worrying about an epidemic of these people popping up...It will never happen..

 

TFY

[Maleficent]

The whole thing about "this is unhealthy bf levels" and " I dont want to spend my life in a gym"...blah blah....

 

The reality is, unlike obesity where all one has to do is plop their fat behind in front of a TV and engorge themselves, getting to "x" levels of fitness or BF requires the type of work, dedication, and genetics that almost no one has....so I dont see it as a national crisis or anything...

 

Like Arnold Schwarzenegger once said when someone remarked " I woudnt ever want to look like you"....Arnold responded ..."Dont worry, ...you never will"....

 

TFY

 

Still not giving some people excuses to be asses about other people's weight. Especially strangers.