"Be happy by yourself first" = the biggest lie.

[regine_phalange]

In the case of a person who has never had a partner, well, isn't it understandable that this fact will bring them down? I've witnessed male friends who were unhappy because they never had a girlfriend, and when they finally had one, they felt great. Their self-esteem rised from then on. Even when they broke up and didn't have a new girlfriend for a long time. We all need external validation more or less. I bet that most people who say that "you need to be happy with yourself" aren't virgins or friendless. Hell, you can't even know who you are if you never had a relationship or friends, let alone love yourself.

[NGC1300]

I don't believe that a person who can't live a full and rewarding life without a mate would be a very good mate, including myself!

 

If their life is "full and rewarding" without you, then they'd have no reason to care or feel upset about losing you. That is a bizarre position to be in.

[ThaWholigan]

In the case of a person who has never had a partner, well, isn't it understandable that this fact will bring them down? I've witnessed male friends who were unhappy because they never had a girlfriend, and when they finally had one, they felt great. Their self-esteem rised from then on. Even when they broke up and didn't have a new girlfriend for a long time. We all need external validation more or less. I bet that most people who say that "you need to be happy with yourself" aren't virgins or friendless. Hell, you can't even know who you are if you never had a relationship or friends, let alone love yourself.

I've never had a relationship.

 

I was also a virgin until I was nearly 24 - and I'm not exactly sexually active right now. One of the reasons I came to this forum was to help alleviate this by proving that I could learn to be more confident, happier and content despite being a virgin and not being in a relationship.

 

Since then, I have lost my virginity although I haven't had a girlfriend yet. But I made sure I was more content before then because I don't want to be dependent on another person for happiness - I want to be in a position to bring them happiness first, and I can't do that when I'm unhappy because I don't have a GF.

 

If their life is "full and rewarding" without you, then they'd have no reason to care or feel upset about losing you. That is a bizarre position to be in.

 

No it's not. You're looking at this from a very black-and-white POV, flitting from one extreme to the other. You can be upset about losing someone, but eventually you'll get over it and go back to how you were before they were around.

[NGC1300]

No it's not. You're looking at this from a very black-and-white POV, flitting from one extreme to the other. You can be upset about losing someone, but eventually you'll get over it and go back to how you were before they were around.

 

Then again, if your life is full and rewarding alone, a relationship can only be a liability to that.

 

I know you will disagree or claim this is narrow thinking, but for me personally, I can't see bothering with a relationship if I'm already happy alone.

 

Yes there is "sharing" but there is also the liabilities (them leaving, cheating, etc).

[ThaWholigan]

Then again, if your life is full and rewarding alone, a relationship can only be a liability to that.

 

I know you will disagree or claim this is narrow thinking, but for me personally, I can't see bothering with a relationship if I'm already happy alone.

 

Yes there is "sharing" but there is also the liabilities (them leaving, cheating, etc).

Well that's you. Some people are narrow thinkers! If we were all the same I guess it would be boring....

[regine_phalange]

I've never had a relationship.

 

I was also a virgin until I was nearly 24 - and I'm not exactly sexually active right now. One of the reasons I came to this forum was to help alleviate this by proving that I could learn to be more confident, happier and content despite being a virgin and not being in a relationship.

 

Since then, I have lost my virginity although I haven't had a girlfriend yet. But I made sure I was more content before then because I don't want to be dependent on another person for happiness - I want to be in a position to bring them happiness first, and I can't do that when I'm unhappy because I don't have a GF.

 

It's awesome that you felt empowered, but there are people who may want some sort of "evidence" if you may, that they are desirable and loveable. I don't think that's wrong. Some people also get more motivated when there is a romantic interest. Some lose weight, some try to make more money, dress better, pursue their talents more ardently, etc etc.

[ThaWholigan]

It's awesome that you felt empowered, but there are people who may want some sort of "evidence" if you may, that they are desirable and loveable. I don't think that's wrong. Some people also get more motivated when there is a romantic interest. Some lose weight, some try to make more money, dress better, pursue their talents more ardently, etc etc.

I can understand that. The problem IMO is those people are always at the mercy of others - it's like that old song of "building your house on a sandy land" instead of "building it on a rock". But, you know, maybe I'm wrong and that we should just allow people to continue like that. It just seems to be perpetuating the problem though.

 

But you can't tell people how to think . But how do you help that person? You can't really. You can perhaps advise them to do the above i.e. lose weight, pursue talents etc. But suppose they don't want to do that? Or they convince themselves they can't? Then there's no helping them, they just want to moan and hope someone injects happiness into their lives while they do nothing to cultivate it in themselves unless someone is there to do it for them.

 

I have to admit, as an autistic person I do occasionally struggle to be empathetic about some things. Maybe I need to try and do more to see it from the other POV.

[NGC1300]

Well that's you. Some people are narrow thinkers! If we were all the same I guess it would be boring....

 

 

Oh that's cute.

 

I didn't say I'm a narrow thinker; I said that's your perception of my argument.

[ThaWholigan]

Oh that's cute.

 

I didn't say I'm a narrow thinker; I said that's your perception of my argument.

It is narrow though, you have to admit. There's no in-between, no grey area at all. You're basically saying you're either only happy in a relationship, or you're only happy alone - you can't be happy alone and want a relationship, there's no point.

 

That's either-or. That's narrow, or at the very least, not very open-minded.

 

I'm done though, I think I've made my point more than enough. My guess is you'll make another thread like this one a couple of months from now further justifying your cynicism. Carry on.

[evanescentworld]

Then again, if your life is full and rewarding alone, a relationship can only be a liability to that.

Not necessarily.

If the relationship is a liability to your own personal happiness, well-being, contentment and serenity - then ditch the relationship!

 

I know you will disagree or claim this is narrow thinking, but for me personally, I can't see bothering with a relationship if I'm already happy alone.

Are you happy alone, right now?

 

I would guess the answer's no.

Then, achieve happiness, become happy, and then embark on a relationship.

Wait until you're happy, before making that assessment...

 

Yes there is "sharing" but there is also the liabilities (them leaving, cheating, etc).

So what?

Those things can happen anywhere, any time.

Their happening is not dependent on whether you're a happy person or not.

And your happiness should not hinge on whether those things happen to you.

 

The whole point of personal happiness is that it TRANSCENDS the ordinary.

[regine_phalange]

I can understand that. The problem IMO is those people are always at the mercy of others - it's like that old song of "building your house on a sandy land" instead of "building it on a rock". But, you know, maybe I'm wrong and that we should just allow people to continue like that. It just seems to be perpetuating the problem though.

 

 

Yeah, you can't help them, and Im not sure they want to be helped. They just want a bf/gf to get unstuck I think it's a similar thing with women who want to be mothers. It's just a thing that you feel will make you happy and is just important to you.

 

 

But you can't tell people how to think . But how do you help that person? You can't really. You can perhaps advise them to do the above i.e. lose weight, pursue talents etc. But suppose they don't want to do that? Or they convince themselves they can't? Then there's no helping them, they just want to moan and hope someone injects happiness into their lives while they do nothing to cultivate it in themselves unless someone is there to do it for them.

 

Some people respond better to extrinsic motivators than intrinsic ones. It could be a maturity thing but I'm not sure

 

 

I have to admit, as an autistic person I do occasionally struggle to be empathetic about some things. Maybe I need to try and do more to see it from the other POV.

 

 

Oh, we all try to be more empathetic, not only autistic people. I could never tell you are autistic btw, Im sure it's pretty mild

[NGC1300]

It is narrow though, you have to admit. There's no in-between, no grey area at all. You're basically saying you're either only happy in a relationship, or you're only happy alone - you can't be happy alone and want a relationship, there's no point.

 

 

I'm not the one saying people are happy alone. That is actually what I'm arguing against. (Although I'm sure a small percentage of people are).

 

Can you be happy AND want a relationship? Yes, but that's not quite the same thing as being happy while perpetually alone.

 

It's actually narrow thinking to assert people should be happy alone, even though the vast majority of people in society are either in relationships, seeking them, or simply just desire the affection of the opposite sex.

 

I think it's clear that relationships play a fairly large role in the happiness of most people. Solitary confinement is a punishment in prison, because most people aren't happy alone.

 

I'm sorry you feel this is narrow thinking.

[Rejected Rosebud]

If their life is "full and rewarding" without you, then they'd have no reason to care or feel upset about losing you. That is a bizarre position to be in.

No it's not. I am in a happy relationship. We both had a lot to offer each other! When I was younger I felt like I could never be happy without a boyfriend, and now I'm different, this way is much better and the relationship is too!

[NGC1300]

No it's not. I am in a happy relationship. We both had a lot to offer each other! When I was younger I felt like I could never be happy without a boyfriend, and now I'm different, this way is much better and the relationship is too!

 

If you had a lot to offer each other, that means your lives were not "full". There was apparently room for more.

[Rejected Rosebud]

but there are people who may want some sort of "evidence" if you may, that they are desirable and loveable. I don't think that's wrong.Some people also get more motivated when there is a romantic interest. Some lose weight, some try to make more money, dress better, pursue their talents more ardently, etc etc.

I don't think it's wrong either. I just think that people who are giving into being unhappy day in and day out thinking that "if only" they had a girlfriend or boyfriend everything would be sunshiny are mistaken. Those people need to figure out how to live well anyway. Usually they then turn a corner and become more compelling and thus more attractive!!

[ThaWholigan]

I'm not the one saying people are happy alone. That is actually what I'm arguing against. (Although I'm sure a small percentage of people are).

 

Can you be happy AND want a relationship? Yes, but that's not quite the same thing as being happy while perpetually alone.

 

It's actually narrow thinking to assert people should be happy alone, even though the vast majority of people in society are either in relationships, seeking them, or simply just desire the affection of the opposite sex.

 

I think it's clear that relationships play a fairly large role in the happiness of most people. Solitary confinement is a punishment in prison, because most people aren't happy alone.

 

I'm sorry you feel this is narrow thinking.

It is narrow. You're suggesting its impossible to attain some level of contentedness on your own. I'm not saying being in a relationship can't make you happier, but the catch 22 is that being depressed on your own is less likely to yield companionship. You want a relationship to make you happy, you at least have to 'appear' happy first! Not a lot of people want to be with someone who depends on them for happiness. That can perpetuate loneliness.

 

So its not said just to be patronizing.

[Rejected Rosebud]

If you had a lot to offer each other, that means your lives were not "full". There was apparently room for more.

Oh come on you are being a contrarian! Of course there is always room for "more" in a life, if it's the right kind of more! And of course my life is much better with him in it but before we got back together I was not living in unhappiness yearning. :confused:Do you agree that people who define themselves by what they DON'T have might be better off to focus on making the best of what they DO have?

[Rejected Rosebud]

Solitary confinement is a punishment in prison, because most people aren't happy alone.

Not having a romantic partner is not analogous to being in solitary confinement in Prison!! There is all kinds of socializing available if you are living on the outside!!

[elaine567]

We hear it all the time. "You have to be happy and content by yourself before you can be happy with someone else". Or, "a relationship shouldn't complete your life, only enhance your life".

 

What the....????

 

 

It is all about self reliance, if you choose to become always reliant on other people for your happiness, then you are going to be sorely disappointed.

 

If you can learn to rely on yourself and to be happy whether alone or with other people, then you do not crumple into a heap, when life throws missiles your way and you do not become a blubbering mess for years and years, when that guy/woman dumps you or treats you bad.

[CALOVELY]

If you are not happy with yourself, you will not be happy with someone else. Figuring out what makes you happy and achieving that will change who you attract and what your outcome is.

[writergal]

Humans aren't meant to be alone. Even when you're alone doing something, you're not really alone. We need connection in order to thrive. Your goals in life don't center around being alone, but in seeking out connections with others.

 

"You have to be happy alone, to be happy with others" is a loaded statement, and one that I think is misguided because it's just not true.

 

First of all, the only real "aloneness" that exists is via social alienation and isolation.

 

In fact, you need to rely on others for your happiness. Happiness can only be found in the company of others. Without other people in your life, life would be lonely and unfulfilling.

 

I think that statement about being happy alone is tied to the propaganda of American individualism too. When I lived in China, I learned just how different the Chinese view of family and friendships is from Americans. As Americans, we pride ourselves on being individuals when the rest of the world -- at least in China when I lived there -- prides itself on community and not being an individual but part of a larger cause. I hung out with students at the university where I taught and met their families.

 

In some of the family homes that I visited, multiple generations of family lived together. The role of the oldest child in a Chinese family is to take care of their parents and younger siblings. Single Chinese adults lived with their parents until they got married.

 

So I think it's very interesting to see just how isolated Americans make themselves and then try to justify that isolation as being character building, or a requirement for being a better romantic partner or friend to another person. And that's why I think that statement about being happy alone before you can be happy with another person is a total crock.

 

Robin Williams said, "The worst thing in life is not to end up alone. The worst thing in life is to end up being with people who make you feel alone."

 

You can't fulfill all of your needs alone. To think you can, is to be misguided. People who choose to be alone and justify that as a good thing, are living in denial because they are living a life based on fear of being rejected by others. And if you don't prefer "aloneness" that doesn't mean you're less capable of loving another person, or being a good partner to another person in a romantic relationship.

 

Even monks who meditate alone are not alone -- they are meditating in order to connect to that "source" that different religions have different names for.

 

You can't fulfill your own emotional needs. That requires being connected to another person. Aloneness = alienation and isolation. It doesn't = being more self-fulfilled or wise. Just my opinion.

[evanescentworld]

If their life is "full and rewarding" without you, then they'd have no reason to care or feel upset about losing you. That is a bizarre position to be in.

 

person sad, depressed, doesn't want to be alone.

Finds partner.

Enters into relationship, seeking happiness and fulfilment, and having expectations of same once in that relationship.

Partner leaves.

Person even more sad, depressed, despondent and dissatisfied.

 

person happy, contented, and fulfilled. Requires no validation from a relationship.

Finds partner.

Enters into relationship, putting other person first, and finding further happiness and fulfilment in sharing life and intimacy with partner, once in that relationship.

Partner leaves.

Person saddened, but realistic, appreciates good times, gives liberty to ex-partner to follow their own path, and returns to being alone.

Sadness is temporary and does not make person descend into depression.

Recovery period much shorter, person serene and contented.

 

Hopefully that illustrates your misunderstanding in your above post.

[rester]

Oh come on you are being a contrarian! Of course there is always room for "more" in a life, if it's the right kind of more! And of course my life is much better with him in it but before we got back together I was not living in unhappiness yearning. :confused:Do you agree that people who define themselves by what they DON'T have might be better off to focus on making the best of what they DO have?

 

He's grasping for straws, that's for sure. Not only is it narrow minded to think that people can't be happy while single, it's quite insulting. Most single people I've held close to me in my life, including myself when I was single, have led well-rounded, happy, full lives.

 

There are many ways to cure loneliness and be content and happy without being in a relationship.

[writergal]

person sad, depressed, doesn't want to be alone.

Finds partner.

Enters into relationship, seeking happiness and fulfilment, and having expectations of same once in that relationship.

Partner leaves.

Person even more sad, depressed, despondent and dissatisfied.

 

person happy, contented, and fulfilled. Requires no validation from a relationship.

Finds partner.

Enters into relationship, putting other person first, and finding further happiness and fulfilment in sharing life and intimacy with partner, once in that relationship.

Partner leaves.

Person saddened, but realistic, appreciates good times, gives liberty to ex-partner to follow their own path, and returns to being alone.

Sadness is temporary and does not make person descend into depression.

Recovery period much shorter, person serene and contented.

 

Hopefully that illustrates your misunderstanding in your above post.

 

That's a very rigid, black and white way to justify being alone as necessary to be a better partner or person with others in friendships or romantic relationships. I don't think life works that way. I mean, self help empires have been built on the premise of being happy alone, so I can see why a lot of people believe that you have to be happy alone before you can be considered valuable to another person. But I just don't buy that. I believe that we can learn from, be valued by, and appreciated and loved by other people because the one thing that is universally true, is that we all seek out and need connections with other people to be happy.

[evanescentworld]

That's a very rigid, black and white way to justify being alone as necessary to be a better partner or person with others in friendships or romantic relationships. I don't think life works that way. I mean, self help empires have been built on the premise of being happy alone, so I can see why a lot of people believe that you have to be happy alone before you can be considered valuable to another person. But I just don't buy that. I believe that we can learn from, be valued by, and appreciated and loved by other people because the one thing that is universally true, is that we all seek out and need connections with other people to be happy.

Oh you're right.

I was merely trying to illustrate, in very basic, summary, bullet-point statements, why his statement -

 

If their life is "full and rewarding" without you, then they'd have no reason to care or feel upset about losing you. That is a bizarre position to be in

 

wasn't necessarily correct.

I was trying to indicate that someone who is already contented, serene and happy with their lives PRIOR to the relationship, can bounce back more quickly, and can also find joy in a relationship while it lasts.