Changing yourself

[Nomad]

Do you think people can REALLY change? I try to improve myself in various ways, but nothing seems to be working for me...I'm stuck in the same rut. If somebody's BORN a dork or a loser do you think they're stuck as a dork and a loser (I know those words are self-deprecating, but they're the best descriptions I have)? Have you HONESTLY ever known ANYBODY who ever really elevated themselves?

[EC]

It depends on what your view of elevation is.

 

How is it that you have been trying to change and have you been trying to change for YOU or for someone else?

[Nomad]

Changing for both myself & other people, EC. What have I been doing to change? I lost some weight, got in shape, started lifting, running, etc. I've tried anti-depressant meds, therapy, reading up on relationships & stuff. I've also done A LOT of thinking things over, both about myself & life in general & started keeping a journal.

[moimeme]

Don't give up on you. People do change. It takes a while, is all. Hang in there and persevere and your efforts will pay off.

[quankanne]

I like to think of it in terms of re-inventing yourself – the future is wide open and the possibilities endless. The only thing that can truly hold you back is believing in the labels that people (often schoolmates) stuck on you (like "dork" and "geek") stick on you. Which, frankly, is a waste of time when you think about it. Those people don't know the real you (nor do they try to) because they'd rather keep you contained within their definition of you so that they can cope with THEIR own insecurities.

 

"Emancipate yourself from mental slavery" says Bob Marley; "none but ourselves can free our minds" -- don't let someone pigeon-hole you into a label that doesn't even describe the real you!

[Merin]

My take..

 

I think there are a lot of people out there that go to great lengths to change thier outward appearance but for some people even after all the cosmetic changes they've made outwardly they still feel (for lack of a better word here) insecure within..

 

True Change IMO starts within.. when YOU appreciate the person you are.

 

While there is nothing wrong with getting fit or making your outward appearance better IF you cannot see and appreciate the exceptional qualities you have as a person (whats in your heart and your mind) then you may find yourself LOOKING better than you ever have in your life but still feeling insecure and uncertain within..

[Nomad]

Yea, I understand the need to improve myself inside AND out...as I said, I've done things like psychotherapy, anti-depressant meds, journal writing, etc. I guess I'm basically asking if a guy's a dud when he's young, isn't he pretty much doomed to be a dud the rest of his life? I mean, plenty of adults are losers...if change was so easy, then why aren't those adult losers turning their lives around?

[monkey00]

I completely agree with all the above posts.

 

I'd also like to add that yes there are those who are born duds or losers...

and yes they have turn their lives around.

 

wnat examples? look at bill gates, look at steve jobs, look at all those actors who used to be nerds in their teen age who turned out great.

 

But truth is it's all up to the person to decide if he wants to take the initiative to turn his life around.

 

It's like motivation and drive. It's how badly you want change. Do you really want it so bad, that you're willing to go out of your way (regular routines) to achieve that goal???

Most people actually DO go out of their way to achieve their goals.

 

There is no boundary to the human mind, you can go as far as you choose in life. only if you decide for yourself that you want to.

[Nomad]

I appreciate the feedback, here...but I have to disagree on a couple of points. Bill Gates went from a nerd to just a very, very rich nerd. He's still a nerd & a dud (though definitely not a loser, lol).

 

I completely concur that changing what you DO is key to changing who you ARE, but the main problem with "self-improvement" (god, I hate that phrase), is that there's no clear-cut way to do it. In other words, there's no instruction manual for changing yourself.

[quankanne]

In other words, there's no instruction manual for changing yourself

 

not really. the only thing you need is the willingness to pursue that change, the will-power to stick with it and a positive attitude about the whole thing. I don't see Bill Gates as a nerd, just someone very, very determined to become successful ... and did.

[Merin]

Originally posted by quankanne

not really. the only thing you need is the willingness to pursue that change, the will-power to stick with it and a positive attitude about the whole thing. I don't see Bill Gates as a nerd, just someone very, very determined to become successful ... and did.

 

Thats a good point Quankanne..

 

When you speak of adults Nomad who are loosers and if making change was so easy then why haven't they.. my only response is this.. One they may lack motivation or two they may not percieve themselves the same way You do..

 

As Quank said.. she views Bill Gates in a different way than you do..

 

Perhaps it's YOUR own perception of how YOU see yourself that becomes reality...

[Tamed Wildflower]

Nomad, what is a nerd, dud, dork, or loser? and why is it bad to be one?

 

People are different, Nomad. It doesn't mean they can't be liked for who they are.

 

You have talked about changing yourself from the inside-- which sounds to me like a way to deal with issues totally different than being a nerd, dud, dork, or loser.

 

When I think of these words, I think of a person's external presentation-- awkward mannerisms, maybe.

 

Can you be more specific about what about yourself you want to change? Is there really something about yourself that you want to change? Or do you just want to be better equipped with the confidence and social skills to present who you are to others better, so that you might have more satisfying social relationships?

[monkey00]

unfortunately, there is no "manual" to life either. How we live it is determined by our actions. We create our own future. That's why individualism exists.

 

But honestly, if there really was a manual to life, would you keep it & follow its teachings or trash it?

 

Self improvement/self growth, in all honesty it's how bad you want it, are you open minded or close minded person? Are you willing to take that extra leap towards changing yourself?

 

Often personal growth is highly influenced by environment. How's your outlook on life? Your room? your clothing? your friends? your morales/values/ideals? your social life? your neighborhood? the people you know? what activities interest you? do you have any dreams?

 

sure this list of questions can cont' infinitely. But what answers you provide should give you a glimpse into yourself, moreso than you realize. You can start from there.

[moimeme]

Gates put computers on all our desks and is now giving away hundreds of millions of dollars to do good on this planet. That is by no means a nerd.

 

Now, if you want to live your life so shallow that you reject a perfectly good human because he looks like Gates rather than Brad (I never see why women like him) Pitt, that's your problem and it's definitely a problem worth fixing.

 

Set your mind on being a decent human being. And when you are one, take pride in that. And screw anybody who doesn't appreciate you (not literally ).

[Nomad]

I'm the first one to admit, that I myself am a dork. I don't look down upon others who are dorks. I'd much rather have a conversation with Bill Gates than Brad Pitt...I'm sure he's a deep & wonderfully interesting guy. But....he IS a nerd!!! Pretending some people aren't dorks does not reflect reality. I'm not in any way "rejecting" him.

 

I don't know, I guess it's a difference of opinion. But let's face it: if people were judged solely by their worth & goodness as a person, there wouldn't be so many lonely, (slightly) bitter guys like me out there. Someone else had a thread about improving his looks, & I scoffed at the people who all said "Looks don't matter, anyway." In a perfect world, that'd be true, but that's not the world we live in. And I'll say again, that I'm trying to change myself inside & out. I'm just frustrated because I don't seem to be getting anywhere.

[gridiron]

I'm not so sure a world where looks do not matter at all would be a perfect world. I look at art, buildings, pictures, and yes, women, and admire external beauty. I do not choose to date only women who are good looking, but it is a factor. Nothing is going to change that. I agree with you that it is insulting for someone to make a blanket statement like looks do not matter at all. They do for most people. How much it matters varies from person to person.

 

We all have different values, preferences, likes, and dislikes. If you meet a girl who blows you off because of something she doesn't like about you or your looks, then that isn't someone you want to be with anyway, and it is her loss. Instead of spending time alternating between being bitter at her for not sharing your values and preferences and blaming yourself, just realize that you were not a match. She will find someone who will match her. And you will find someone who will match you . . . but it will be a lot easier if you don't retain that bitterness, don't blame yourself, don't blame society, and just move on.

[Tamed Wildflower]

Originally posted by gridiron

We all have different values, preferences, likes, and dislikes. If you meet a girl who blows you off because of something she doesn't like about you or your looks, then that isn't someone you want to be with anyway, and it is her loss. Instead of spending time alternating between being bitter at her for not sharing your values and preferences and blaming yourself, just realize that you were not a match. She will find someone who will match her. And you will find someone who will match you . . . but it will be a lot easier if you don't retain that bitterness, don't blame yourself, don't blame society, and just move on.

 

GREAT comments, gridiron!!! Definitely right on.

 

Nomad, let me ask you a personal question, if you don't mind: Are you heterosexual? And is lack of attention from women part of one your issues with your being a "dork"?

[Nomad]

Yes, I am straight. I've actually posted a number of other threads involving questions about women. And yes, part of my low self-esteem is from being rejected by women and also by getting no attention from them. That's a large part of the problem, but not all of it. I also have trouble with platonic relationships. I also feel a dork because of that.

[amerikajin]

I guess I'm basically asking if a guy's a dud when he's young, isn't he pretty much doomed to be a dud the rest of his life? I mean, plenty of adults are losers...if change was so easy, then why aren't those adult losers turning their lives around?

 

People aren't born dorks, they become "dorks" through lack of social awareness and interpersonal skill. These two things can, and often are, changed throughout the course of a person's life - and I've seen it go both ways. I've seen people go from being complete dorks to being readily accepted in the larger community, and I've also seen people go from being "cool" to being losers.

 

Talking about Steve Jobs and Bill Gates, dorks?! Are you kidding me?! There's nothing dorky about a guy who has the balls and the brains to risk his own hard-earned money and turn it into a vast financial empire - absolutely nothing at all dorky about that. They may not be as fashionable or trendy as Brad Pitt or Matt Damon, but dorks these men are not. Because they are the at the pinnacle of their profession, some could reasonably argue that they might even be less dorky than these two Hollywood studs. Of course, we're only talking about Bill Gates and Steve Jobs the businessmen, not the individuals in whole, but the same goes for Matt Damon and Brad Pitt.

 

Nomad, I and many more men than who will care to admit have had this same problem you have: dealing with your own insecurities. You're afraid to let people see the real you. Somewhere along the way someone, or perhaps a group of people (maybe your classmates in school) somehow made you stand out and "invalidated" you.

 

It takes a lot of patience, and like any subject you don't understand too well, it takes some study as well. There are some good resources on the internet for everything from self-help to dating guides, though there's also a lot of crap out there, too. Just take time and don't go for the quick fix, be prepared to fix a lot of things in your life. It sounds like you're doing that now, which is good. Just don't expect fast results, be patient and be yourself.

[amerikajin]

If you meet a girl who blows you off because of something she doesn't like about you or your looks, then that isn't someone you want to be with anyway, and it is her loss.

 

Added to that, a person has to try not to take the rejection personally. I mean, to an extent, it is personal because you're getting denied the opportunity to know someone you really want to know more about, which can be a difficult thing to accept. Nevertheless, attraction is what it is. That doesn't mean you can't find what you're looking for.

[Fuzzy Chickens]

I've changed my personality before. I have had one "base" personality and two "constructed" personalities. It's not too hard.

[Tamed Wildflower]

Fuzzy... you consciously constructed two more personalities. Why did you decide to do that? And how did it go for you?

[Marshbear]

Have you ever met someone who, at first glance, you would never figure you would like but once you actually take some time with them you find they are really a cool person and worthy of the human race?

Happiness comes from with-in and radiates outward if we let it. Some of the dorkest people are the most compassionate friends you would ever want. Like is what you make it so enjoy it with passion.

 

It is fine to work on the outside of ourselves because that is what most people see and at first it is why we want to know them and desire them but the inside person is the reason why we stay. It is far more rewarding to like ourselves and be happy with ourselves for this will make others want to be like us and to see what we are all about. It comes from the inside out so that is where we need to start.

[Fuzzy Chickens]

The first time I changed personalities, it didn't work too well, because I just kind of grafted it onto my previous personality and they were VERY different (think of Bart and Lisa Simpson in the same head and you begin to see the issue). The second time around, I wiped the slate clean and rebuilt from there, and it's been working out very well. I annoy people so much less, and my apartment is so much cleaner now! And the complete loss of my emotions doesn't bug me anymore.

 

Seriously, being emotionless kicks ass. You should try it sometime.

[Tamed Wildflower]

Originally posted by Nomad

Yes, I am straight. I've actually posted a number of other threads involving questions about women. And yes, part of my low self-esteem is from being rejected by women and also by getting no attention from them. That's a large part of the problem, but not all of it. I also have trouble with platonic relationships. I also feel a dork because of that.

 

OKay, Let me just address the part about women. One of my favorite subjects to converse about with other people is attraction, and through my asking other people questions I have come to some generalizations about how men and women experience attraction. These are generalizations, so obviously they are not going to be true for EVERYONE, b/c people are different. But I think they're more true than not.

 

For MEN... physical attraction comes first, and is really important. A man can be physically attracted to a woman before he knows anything else about her. Physical attraction is entirely a visual experience. And physical attraction is like a pre-requisite to other kinds of attraction. It's like you have to walk in the physical attraction door before it will even occur to him to consider whether you are intellectually interesting, sweet, loving, or whatever else he might be interested in.

 

For WOMEN... many of us can not just look at a man, size him up, and know in an instant whether or not we are interested. Whether or not we feel physical or sexual attraction to him is often dependent on how we feel about him otherwise; it is often dependent on the broader context of our relationship with him or our general impression of him. For many women, if you ask them if they are sexually attracted to a guy, they will stop and think for a few seconds... in those seconds they are using their imagination to create a sexual situation with the guy... then their answer is based on 1) how easy it was to imagine a situation in which they would want to sleep with him, and 2) how much they liked thinking about it. Attraction, even straight-up sexual attraction, is far more than just a visual experience.

 

The point is, you don't have to look like Pierce Brosnan to get a woman to like you! You don't even have to be the most charming and suave guy around (often times this comes off as sickeningly fake anyway). This is not a matter of figuring out what it takes to GET a woman to like you, it's a matter of finding a woman will will like you because you are you.

 

I think the only thing that you have to work on changing is your social skills, just enough to be better at presenting yourself confidently (without CHANGING yourself), perhaps maybe some skills in social niceties, and beyond that, just learn to appreciate who you are and have a little confidence, confidence that you ARE worth being attracted to and an enjoyable person to be around.