dsancious Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 I found out 7 weeks ago that my wife had an affair shortly after we were married two years ago. She states that she had sex with her ex 3 times over a six month period. My wife refuses to discuss any details of the affair other than some lame, generic reasons for the affair. The counselor that we have seen twice sides with my wife and states that details are not necessary. She wants to work on making our marriage whole again. I strongly disagree and from everything I've read and heard, discussing the affair is necessary to healing. Neither my wife nor the counselor believe that talking about the affair and what led up to it are important. I am very angry and resentful at BOTH of them and just want to get some feedback and advice on this subject. Thanks in advance for any help. Link to post Share on other sites
Bryanp Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Hello, I agree with you totally. It is unbelievably hurtful and humiliating to you that your wife had a sexual affair shortly after your marriage with her ex. The fact that she wishes not to discuss this with you and the counselor agrees is totally unacceptable. I wonder what her position would be if the roles were reversed? I would certainly seek out another counselor. Your wife owes you at the very least a full discussion about the affair, the reasons and the implications for you and your marriage. Her refusal to discuss it would be a line in the sand for me. Refusing to discuss this affair shortly after your marriage and putting your health at risk and making a mockery of her vows so shortly after the marriage are huge red flags. I simply do not see how you could trust her in the future and her refusal to discuss it with you implies it has nothing to do with you. With this kind of attitude I would be looking at your legal options. What have been the consequences to her actions. Why would you want to be married to a wife who would have sex at least 3 times with her ex shortly after you married her? Clearly her attitude and actions indicates a person who has very little respect for you and your feelings. Please don't settle for this in your life. You deserve better than somebody like her. Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky Dog Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 I think you are right, talking about what led up to it and what happened are very important to be able to let it go and move on. I would suggest you find another counselour. Link to post Share on other sites
sylviaguardian Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 I agree - until you are satisfied that you know everything that you need to know, you won't be able to move on. I know some counsellors believe that problems in the marriage are all that need to be addressed. I disagree. Sometimes it can be down to problems in the thinking of the person who had the affair and 'working on the marriage' will not change the way they view things. Get a counsellor who you are BOTH happy with. Sylvia Link to post Share on other sites
harleygirl92156 Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 I had the same situation. The counselor forbid my husband to tell me anything. My husband knows me better than that and he knew I would not move past it until he told me who, what, when, WHY and where. It took three weeks, but he finally told me. Thing is since he lied, via advice from the counselor, about the details of the affair when he first admitted it, I don't trust that he is telling the whole story now. The counselor really messed up our marriage and we are now working through it together without his "help." Get a new counselor, one that understands infidelity and deals with it regularly. Your questions should be answered, all of them. Once they are then you can move on, not until. Link to post Share on other sites
sylviaguardian Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Originally posted by harleygirl92156 I had the same situation. The counselor forbid my husband to tell me anything. My husband knows me better than that and he knew I would not move past it until he told me who, what, when, WHY and where. It took three weeks, but he finally told me. Thing is since he lied, via advice from the counselor, about the details of the affair when he first admitted it, I don't trust that he is telling the whole story now. The counselor really messed up our marriage and we are now working through it together without his "help." That really sucks. Of course you can't trust him now. You should think about complaining about that counsellor. Link to post Share on other sites
LucreziaBorgia Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 You know they had sex, and how often - what sort of details are you looking for? The events leading up to it may have had to do with an internal struggle with your wife that had nothing to do with how she felt about you, or with your marriage in general. She may not have cheated because of you, you just happened to be married to someone who put you out of mind and went after someone else. What if your counselor came right out and told you "it had nothing to do with you, and her having an affair was entirely her own thing with no regard to you" - would you believe that? If it were true, and you didn't believe it - then there would be no way that you would be able to work through the issues at hand, if you can't accept them and be willing to work through them. What good would it do for you to know those details (these are hypothetical questions...). Do you think that learning the prurient details will end up being detrimental for you? Would making those details available to you damage your perception of your wife and those particular actions you want to know about? Its likely that your counselor is weighing these options and sees that your fixation on the details is detrimental to the repair of your relationship in general. Its good to know details, and we all want to know them - but what if those details will end up causing more damage than harm? Like I said, its just hypothetical and I was trying to play devil's advocate and see it the way your counselor might see it. Ask yourself these questions. If you are still having trouble with it, ask your counselor to explain his/her actions and why you feel you need to know these things for your own closure. If you are still having trouble, or find yourself stonewalled, ask to be referred to a different counselor. Link to post Share on other sites
ThumbingMyWay Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Ya know....I wanted to know everything too....every little thing my wife did with her OM. Places they go, when they talked...what he bought her.....what resturants....where they would park to do the "deed".......details.....how she felt, etc.... .....I WISH I WOULDNT HAVE...... It is extremely painful. There are certain things now that will trigger the negative thoughts....wether it be seeing a car like the OM....or driving by a bar they would meet at....or going out to pool on Weds nights, knowing thats the night they would talk on the phone....not to mention, how she got off during the day in his car.....or when she said, he was a great kisser....these things HURT....and they get ingrained into your mind......and I know it will be hard to get these images and thoughts to leave my mind.... SO my advice to you is the same as my dad told me........YOU DONT NEED TO KNOW DETAILS.... TIME will heal your curiosity.... Link to post Share on other sites
Cecelius Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 I think the more subtle point that's being addressed isn't whether the OP wants to know them or would do well with knowing them but the idea that she, and the counselor, refuse to get into it and are putting up a wall. Personally, I have my line on cheating (cheating=instant splitsville, population: you) but you clearly have a little invested in this. I don't think its appropriate for your wife, especially what she was up to, or your counsellor, to paternalistically tell you what's best for you. Link to post Share on other sites
Ladyjane14 Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 I agree with Thumb. I think that what the counsellor is trying to accomplish is to prevent you from projecting mental imagery. The mental pictures that you might create from having too much sexual detail of the affair could become very real to you....as if you had actually witnessed it. Some details are indeed important for you to know. For example, when and why help to set up parameters for accountability, and can be used to reconcile the problems in the relationship. But you're really NOT going to want those mental pictures later. Link to post Share on other sites
fleafly Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 sorry to here about your situation, and believe when I say that I and a few others know how you are feeling and why you would want to know everything that happened. That said. You KNOW what happened, AVOID the details at all costs. I say this from personal experience, and it pretty much brought me to the point of no return, as far as my marriage is concerned. This mental images and thoughts will haunt you trust me on this, its all I think about, day and night. flea Link to post Share on other sites
reservoirdog1 Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Get rid of the counsellor. You have an absolute right to know all the details -- she acted in blatant disregard for your health, at the very least. To say nothing of her massive disrespect for you and her willingness to sh*t all over the vows she swore freely. You need a counsellor who will encourage her to tell you everything you want to know. Once you have that, however, for your own happiness, you should limit the scope of the questions you ask. How many times, and over what period of time, is relevant information. Whether or not they used protection is relevant information. But specific details like what positions, who was better, etc. shouldn't be delved into -- finding out that stuff will hurt you more than help you. In my case, I refrained from asking those questions -- not out of any greater wisdom, but just because I knew I didn't want to hear the answers. The fact that the counsellor is boneheadedly missing is that, right now, your wife owes you the complete truth. Anything she keeps from you, out of a misguided belief that "you don't need to know", is an obstacle to rebuilding trust. Get rid of the idiot counsellor and find somebody with some common sense and compassion. Link to post Share on other sites
dsancious Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 I asked my wife right off the bat what kind of sex acts were performed and she replied "nothing that we hadn't done before" so I am not really that interested in knowing the details of the sex acts themselves. These are the things that I want to know: Was this going on before we got married? When was the 1st time?(we got married in June 2003 and she says that the 1st time was in August 2003 but I have reason to believe it may have been in July). I also want to know why she resumed in Nov. and Dec. 2003 when I thought things were going much better. And I want to know when the last sexual contact was ( I have reason to believe that it wasn't in Dec. 2003). The main thing I want to know is WHY. When I told the counselor that she stated "what difference does it make why?" Well excuse the **** out of me. If we don't know the reason why how are we to prevent this from happening again? I was so pissed off that I almost got up and left. Then my wife gave me a hastily written and obviously poorly thought out list of reasons: she was 2 hours away from her family, she felt I wasn't giving her enough attention, and , get this, she was upset because I like the spoon position "a little too much." Now that's a really sound reason to go **** somebody else. My gut instinct tells me that she was still in love with her ex when she married me and became torn between staying with me and going back with him. For whatever reason, she (or he) decided that they shouldn't get back together so she stayed with me. I am so bitter, angry, and resentful that I cannot see myself staying in this marriage if my wife is not willing to be honest with me on these questions. I mean, it's not like I'm asking her intimate sexual details (though they certainly cross my mind quite a bit). I just want the truth on why this happened and if I can't these basic but necessary questions answered, then the marriage is over. And no Resdog, she did not use protection. I'm probably a walking STD factory. Link to post Share on other sites
Rick5478 Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Why do men torture themselves by staying with women that cheat on them? It's not like there are any faithful women out there anyway, but to continue staying with someone who has already cheated on you and you're torturing yourself with those images in your head. Why even bother? Link to post Share on other sites
Podna Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 I am not so sure that keeping this information from him is a good idea. It is true that having the details will cause him to have a mental image of what took place, but when my girlfriend cheated on me I filled in the blanks with some of the vilest and most perverse acts known to man. Before long, those imagination constructed images became my reality. Link to post Share on other sites
reservoirdog1 Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 And no Resdog, she did not use protection. I'm probably a walking STD factory. In some ways, that's the worst part of all this -- that the cheaters had such complete disregard for their partners that they were willing to take massive liberties not only with our feelings, but with our LIVES. Their selfish, sh*tty behaviour could have KILLED US. Or left us with incurable chronic diseases. Go and get tested, and tell her that you're doing so. (And, of course, that she must do so, immediately.) I told my cheating ex wife that I was going to get tested, and she told me that I didn't have to (despite the fact that she'd rode the OMs bareback -- she hated condoms), because she'd had it done. My response was, "clearly I can't trust your word, why would I trust you with my life? I need to know that I haven't gotten crudded up from having unprotected sex with you for the last seven years." She shut the f*ck up pretty quick. Like yours, mine cheated VERY shortly after swearing her vows, and had also had another affair during the engagement. Another followed a couple of years later. Perversely, I actually wanted to reconcile at first -- what can I say? I figured she owed it to me, and I was an emotional basket case for about six months after finding out the truth. But she didn't want to reconcile. And in retrospect, it wouldn't have worked. I don't like her and I don't trust her. And I probably never will again. Link to post Share on other sites
Ladyjane14 Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Originally posted by dsancious If we don't know the reason why how are we to prevent this from happening again? I completely agree with that. There are some details that are absolutely necessary for you to know in order to understand why it happened. And what you've asked for isn't the mental pictures variety of information. If you can't get the answers that you really NEED in order to make progress...you're just wasting your co-pay in counseling. Don't hesitate to let your counselor know it. Do make sure that you're giving careful consideration to whatever info you request. There are guys on this thread who've given you advice about that....and they really have walked through the fire. So heed them if you can. Link to post Share on other sites
erika2610 Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 Originally posted by Rick5478 Why do men torture themselves by staying with women that cheat on them? It's not like there are any faithful women out there anyway, but to continue staying with someone who has already cheated on you and you're torturing yourself with those images in your head. Why even bother? You are a bitter little man aren't you? I really think you should get help to help you get over what you went through. If not, you're going to spend the rest of your life alone. And to make a generalization and say we ALL cheat, is just not fair at all.. Link to post Share on other sites
Rick5478 Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 Well, we live in a country where men work 40 hours a week, women marry men, cheat on men, divorce men, get half their money, and can live off of alimony for the rest of their life. It doesn't matter how difficult a job a man has, if a woman is a "homemaker," then automatically her job is 10 times more difficult than the job of any man. Women have emotionally castrated men, financially drained men, then they wonder why men are bitter. Women have such little appreciation for how hard men work, yet expect to be treated like queens, and even use sex as a bargaining tool. Women are cruel, manipulative, unfaithful liars and yet still blame men for their problems. You're taught my society that you have no responsbilities. That anything a woman does it's out of the goodness of their heart. But a man, he's obligated to fulfill his responsibilities. Women aren't obligated to do anything. And most of the time, NOTHING is exactly what they do. Yes, some men cheat but when men cheat, women get revenge in court. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 Just ignore Rick. His input most of the time is really not helpful and he seems to have his own issues and yes, definately bitter. His message everytime screams out : Men = PERFECT, can do no wrong! KING of the Castle...Women = Evil and at fault for EVERYTHING in this world including why I am so bitter and angry!.....WELL RICK, get some therapy in, deal with your issues and GET OVER IT. LIFE GOES ON buddy! Please stop sh*tting on all the women on LS. DO us all a favour and stop the bashing!! Link to post Share on other sites
lynnspies1 Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 I think Rick is an actor participating in a roll. He wants to get a rise out of people and that is what is happening. If we ignore him he may just go crawl back under his rock. Lynn Link to post Share on other sites
I Survived Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 Wanting to know the details is not about "knowing the details" It's about rebuilding trust. Trust that the person who cheated on you is telling the truth. They need to be an open book. I kept asking the questions of my husband who had an emotional affair and at first he lied. Then I found out he lied, told him I knew the truth. I did not give up. After a while (3 months or so) he was totally open to my questions and told me anything I wanted to know. Because he did that, I have been able to trust him again - not completely - but every day the trust grows. The wrongdoer OWES it to the person they hurt to cooperate in ANY WAY that gets them through the pain. You deserve to know the TRUTH!! Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 Still, Nicely put. Perfect actually. Link to post Share on other sites
dsancious Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 We have started seeing another therapist with basically the same attitude. She did get my wife to understand that I needed to know where I was when all of this was going on and how I was DECEIVED by her. It has been over 3 months since d-day and almost from the very start my wife's reply to any of my questions has been "I don't want to talk about it anymore. You know what happenned. I'm just tired of talking about it and just want to move on with our marriage." We are planning a two week separation in early June with no contact between the two of us. She wants me to see how I feel without her around. She also wants me to make up my mind if I want to stay in the marriage. Right now, I don't believe that I can stay with a woman that did what she did and have told her this. Her continued insistence on denying me more than just "the basics" is making me ask even more and intimate questions. I initially was not that interested in the sexual aspect of the relationship but now I am becoming obsessed with them. Was he a better lover? Was he "bigger" than me? Her answers vary from day-to-day and I just keep getting the run-around. The more time that passes, the more I realize that this woman has some huge character flaws. She says she loves me and actually treats me well, but my gut instinct tells me I am in for more pain and disrespect if I stay with her. I think the two week separation with no contact whatsoever will help me realize that I cannot stay in this relationship. It has taken such a physical and emotional toll on me that I'm afraid if I stay that my health will continue to decline rapidly, and I am only 47. Any comments? Link to post Share on other sites
I Survived Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 I think the reason why your wife doesn't "want to talk about it anymore" is because she is ashamed of what she did. I can understand why you would want to know the details but at the same time I think you need to be sensitive to her feelings. I know that your imagination is running wild with thoughts of her being with him but where is she now? She is with YOU. You say she loves you and treats you well. Maybe it's not time to ask those questions. Maybe you need to work on your relationship and try to make it better. Maybe there's reasons why she doesn't feel secure in telling you the details. Does she think that you are just gathering information to use it against her later on. My ex-husband had a policy "I don't get mad, I get even" That's why I had to leave him once I told him about my affair with my current husband. I knew he would never forgive me and always hold it against me. If that is your policy, she may be reluctant to share the details of her affair with you. My suggestion is - work at having a better relationship and try to move past the affair. It has been proven that women can forgive their husbands who stray easier than men can forgive their wives. Knowing that their wife cheated and was with another man terribly bruises their egos. I don't know if the two week separation is a good idea but you have to do what you think is right. I think you should take those two weeks to talk about how you both feel about each other. If you can get the book "The Script" and read it, I think you and your wife will get a good idea about how infidelity happens. There are tons of books on infidelity but I've found this one to be the best I've read so far. It's a real eye-opener. Good luck. I know it's hard because you want to know but for some reason she's not willing to share right now. Give her a reason to trust that you won't slam it back in her face and maybe she'll tell you. It's quite possible if you work at getting your marriage better, you won't need to know. You both need to work on trust. Link to post Share on other sites
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