purplesorrow Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 I know R is different for everyone, but your words seem so fitting to my situation. I just experienced False R and I will most likely NEVER recover from it. You will recover if you choose to. Hasn't enough of your life been taken by this? Why seal your future that way? Change your outlook. I know it's hard right now but it will get better. Peace. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
thirtysomethingteen Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 In the end, R is not worth it if your goal is get back what you had before the affair. But what if you don't want it back? Before the affair I was a doormat who cowtoed to my husband and tiptoed around his feelings. Since then I found my backbone and I will put up with no crap from him - even he prefers the new me. And he knows what the consequences would be if he were to cross the new me. Sure, it would be nice if he'd never cheated but I honestly don't know if I'd change it if there was any chance that I'd still be the meek little wifey I was back then. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
thirtysomethingteen Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 You will recover if you choose to. Hasn't enough of your life been taken by this? Why seal your future that way? Change your outlook. I know it's hard right now but it will get better. Peace. Amen to this. I know it's hard to see this when you're thick in the pain, but regardless of whether you R or not you have it within yourself to move beyond this. I refuse to be a victim or feel any shame over my H's past bad behavior, and why should I? It is no reflection on me as a wife or a person and I hold my head up high. 8 Link to post Share on other sites
DKT3 Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 I divorced my fWW, I made the finally decision once I noticed how calm the thought of divorce made me feel. It was six months after D-day (or I should say the day it all clicked, she still denied), then another 8 months to work it all out "behind her back". The divorce is what I had to do for me. We are together now, but I have little doubt that not for the divorce we would have grown to hate one another. The divorced allowed me to heal away from her where no more damage was done, no broken NC, no need to lie and hide things. Now I didn't divorce with the intent of being together, I never intended to allow her back in my life beyond co-parenting. The benefit for our NOW relationship is we both understand we are one another first choice. The divorce freed her to chase OM who was single or any other man she wanted. She decided to focus on our kids, her business and personal growth. She hounded me for many years to have US again, while improving herself. Along the way I saw that woman I loved so dearly. Sorry, I just going on. My point is OP, you have do what's best for you at THIS point. Don't try to predict the future, how do you feel NOW. Divorce doesn't have to mean the end forever. Don't allow fear to keep you where your heart doesn't want to be. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Arieswoman Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 I would go along with toolforgrowth post #4 and bigman1 - post #16 I told my exH on DD that the affair had to stop now. He refused saying that "he loved her and he didn't want it to end". He got the divorce papers 3 days later. Now, many years down the line I can see that the OW did me a favour in freeing me from a man who was a cheat and a liar, who had disrespected me and our marriage. I know of 2 girls who stayed with serial cheaters and tried to make a go of things, with numerous false reconciliations. In both cases, co-incidentally, the husband finally left with the last AP, leaving both women with 4 kids (the youngest a new baby) I know one girl whose husband cheated and left for 4 months and then returned and they reconciled. (Her kids were 7 & 11 at the time.) Years later, after I was divorced myself, I told her how much I admired her for being able to forgive him and make a go of things. She looked me straight in the eye and said "What makes you think I have forgiven him?" She then went on to say that she wasn't looking for an affair, but if an opportunity came along she would take it, but keep it quiet. I felt sorry for her after that but it was her choice to reconcile. Cheating is a deal-breaker for me, it may not be so for others. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
waterwoman Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 But what if you don't want it back? Quite. I wanted the marriage we had many years before or one that was even better. The reasons the marriage deterioriated are many and varied and the blame for it lies with both spouses, and with some of the cr*p hands life dealt us over the years. For a lot of years we seemed to be lurching from one crisis to another. It tooks it's toll. Our relationship was left on standby. When dday dawned there was the usual shock and pain and whilst I was blindsided because I never beleived he would do something like that, there was also a sense of releif that we had to address the bigger problems that we both knew were there but never found the time or energy to cope with. Affair started just over 3 years ago. DDay happened and affair ended 3 years ago in June. It's going well. Really well. I had one major issue that was still bothering me and we addressed it recently. Over the last 3 years I have had downs and up, but for the first time I can honestly say the affair doesn't impact my interactions with H at all. I still think about it from time to time (LS doesn't help there I guess - maybe I should go cold turkey!!) but no more than I think about when my dad had heart surgery, or when my granny, or FIL, or when H was made redundant and we nearly lost our house. Horrible, frightening, distressing things that were dreadful to live through and have left their mark but are IN THE PAST. It helped that the affair was short, H was remorseful, voluntarily ended the A and went NC, did everything that i asked, was open about everything, and never blamed me. Without those things.... I don't know. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
badkarma2013 Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) In the end, no matter how many years after the affair, R never ends. R is a process for LIFE, and when people say it took X years to recover or what not, what they really mean is it took them that many years to accept what happened and be able to resume a functional marriage. And by functional marriage, that does NOT mean a RECOVERED marriage. Recovery is going to be forever, and the BS will suffer for ever whereas the WS will be able to look past it more easily as they aren't the ones with the deep wounds. In the end, R is not worth it if your goal is get back what you had before the affair. You can stay for many reasons, but if it is to SAVE your marriage, get out cause all you'll be doing is SALVAGING it and making yourself suffer for the rest of your life. Love is deep and lasts forever, but that's also why it hurts forever if you decide to stay. **************************************************************** Bravo...Well Stated...I sincerely believe ( as a lot of others here do..) That MANY go into R thinking ..I/WE can make this work ..WHEN THEY KNOW they can NEVER get over the lies and deception and the self esteem issues (doubts ,insecurities and suspicion) ...AS many have posted and on other forums ..(mostly BHs...again the gender thing.) they still trigger,have esteem issues and find themselves filled with doubt ...and this after YEARS in R ..not weeks or months ....YEARS...The nightmare for some has no end in sight..... I ask WHY??....What is the purpose..."You love them?"..How...this person has destroyed your marriage ...broken the very thing you thought was forever..and did this by lying,deceiving and betraying you...HOW? I knew the moment things were shown to me...and after i got a" full confession..only after she saw the pics "...I could never get over it...I would forever trigger..have doubts and have never ending suspicion... I have never regretted Divorcing and i never trigger or doubt myself as i did the days following D-DAY... P.S. Before i get hammered ..I AM NOT anti R...If that is for you,by all means do it...I have just never seen it work out much.. Edited January 24, 2015 by badkarma2013 3 Link to post Share on other sites
badkarma2013 Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 I know R is different for everyone, but your words seem so fitting to my situation. I just experienced False R and I will most likely NEVER recover from it. If you have tried R and it was false because of your WHs behavior ...YOU TRIED...THIS SH%T you find your self in in NO fault of your own...and his stupid, selfish behavior is NO reflection of you as a person and never think anything else...HE DID THIS...not you... I will promise you will recover ,but it may be without your WH...NOW the decision is entirely yours..no one else, yours... May you quickly and quitely find the peace we all search for... 3 Link to post Share on other sites
stillcold Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 How can you predict someone's forever? Because if you love someone, it will cause you deep pain and agony to envision them with someone else, let alone remember that they actually were with someone else besides you. Because of love, you will not forget, though you may accept, and accepting doesn't happen over night with love, it takes YEARS. I know it sounds pessimistic, but it is realistic. I am NOT saying that a couple in R cannot be able to resume a functional marriage and be happy again; that is very possible and happens all the time and I am very happy for those people. HOWEVER, R will never end for the BS, and those deep wounds from the affair will always be there in the form of a scar or not because of LOVE. Sure, many years down the line you will probably be able to accept the affair and it may not trigger you anymore, but at what cost? Do you really want to spend 5 - 15 years getting over an affair and being in an emotional state of turmoil when you can simply just start afresh with much more ease? Logically, if the only motivating reason to stay is love and not things such as finances, kids, or etc., then it makes a lot more sense to divorce and simply start afresh as it would be a much EASIER process emotionally to divorce the WS and find someone new rather than spend many years in R then only to realize you haven't even BEGUN to get over it after a few years once you trigger for who knows what reason. Unfortunately, infidelity is a deal breaker not because of the choice itself, but because it is a choice the BS has to force themselves to accept. It is a struggle between the mind and heart, where as long as love abounds for the WS, the jealousy of love will never be able to fully let go what was done because that person is/was yours, and only yours. Again, I am not trying to attack any people that have chosen to R; I wish the best for all of you as I know how hard it is and I hope what I say never applies to you. This is just my take on it, and being someone who likes to look at things with pros and cons, it makes a lot more sense to ME to just divorce and start afresh if the only factor to consider reconciliation is love; because as long as love abounds for the WS, so will the pain of the affair as love cannot stop being jealous. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
purplesorrow Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Because if you love someone, it will cause you deep pain and agony to envision them with someone else, let alone remember that they actually were with someone else besides you. Because of love, you will not forget, though you may accept, and accepting doesn't happen over night with love, it takes YEARS. I know it sounds pessimistic, but it is realistic. I am NOT saying that a couple in R cannot be able to resume a functional marriage and be happy again; that is very possible and happens all the time and I am very happy for those people. HOWEVER, R will never end for the BS, and those deep wounds from the affair will always be there in the form of a scar or not because of LOVE. Sure, many years down the line you will probably be able to accept the affair and it may not trigger you anymore, but at what cost? Do you really want to spend 5 - 15 years getting over an affair and being in an emotional state of turmoil when you can simply just start afresh with much more ease? Logically, if the only motivating reason to stay is love and not things such as finances, kids, or etc., then it makes a lot more sense to divorce and simply start afresh as it would be a much EASIER process emotionally to divorce the WS and find someone new rather than spend many years in R then only to realize you haven't even BEGUN to get over it after a few years once you trigger for who knows what reason. Unfortunately, infidelity is a deal breaker not because of the choice itself, but because it is a choice the BS has to force themselves to accept. It is a struggle between the mind and heart, where as long as love abounds for the WS, the jealousy of love will never be able to fully let go what was done because that person is/was yours, and only yours. Again, I am not trying to attack any people that have chosen to R; I wish the best for all of you as I know how hard it is and I hope what I say never applies to you. This is just my take on it, and being someone who likes to look at things with pros and cons, it makes a lot more sense to ME to just divorce and start afresh if the only factor to consider reconciliation is love; because as long as love abounds for the WS, so will the pain of the affair as love cannot stop being jealous. My point was you can only determine how it will be for you. People are different and see and process things differently. It doesn't take everyone years to get to a point of acceptance. Have you experienced infidelity? Link to post Share on other sites
stillcold Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 **************************************************************** Bravo...Well Stated...I sincerely believe ( as a lot of others here do..) That MANY go into R thinking ..I/WE can make this work ..WHEN THEY KNOW they can NEVER get over the lies and deception and the self esteem issues (doubts ,insecurities and suspicion) ...AS many have posted and on other forums ..(mostly BHs...again the gender thing.) they still trigger,have esteem issues and find themselves filled with doubt ...and this after YEARS in R ..not weeks or months ....YEARS...The nightmare for some has no end in sight..... I ask WHY??....What is the purpose..."You love them?"..How...this person has destroyed your marriage ...broken the very thing you thought was forever..and did this by lying,deceiving and betraying you...HOW? I knew the moment things were shown to me...and after i got a" full confession..only after she saw the pics "...I could never get over it...I would forever trigger..have doubts and have never ending suspicion... I have never regretted Divorcing and i never trigger or doubt myself as i did the days following D-DAY... P.S. Before i get hammered ..I AM NOT anti R...If that is for you,by all means do it...I have just never seen it work out much.. First brother, I am very sorry for you to have to go through that... my heart goes out to you as it is something no one should ever go through. I hope you are doing better now, and that all things are going well for you. But what you stated is precisely the point I was trying to get across: as long as love is there for the WS, the wounds will also be there for the BS. Unfortunately in the majority of cases, the only way to truly get over the betrayal is by divorce, and it makes the most sense to do so in the end considering R never happens for the majority of people, no matter how many years later after D-Day. An interesting note: even the religious permit divorce in their texts (such as Christianity) ONLY in the case of infidelity, and I think that in itself speaks something truly significant as we often hear many people say that their religious authorities tell them to reconcile, whereas Jesus says divorce is allowed. I find that very interesting, given that marriage was made by God, that He also allows it to end for infidelity, and it makes sense. 6 Link to post Share on other sites
stillcold Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 My point was you can only determine how it will be for you. People are different and see and process things differently. It doesn't take everyone years to get to a point of acceptance. Have you experienced infidelity? Yeah, I understood. I was just saying that for the majority of people, I feel it will take years if not more to get to that point. And no, I have not experienced infidelity personally, though I know those who have and what has become of it. Link to post Share on other sites
badkarma2013 Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 My point was you can only determine how it will be for you. People are different and see and process things differently. It doesn't take everyone years to get to a point of acceptance. Have you experienced infidelity? Yes i have experienced infidelity...and I somewhat concede some do not take years to accept the WSs A ( But they Will never forget it..and the Affair will forever linger with them) ...But there are Many here ..I will speak as a BH..and have seen ,spoken to and corresponded with many...who will NEVER get over the lies and betrayal...ever... They have been in R for years and the trauma is Still there..Years later..If that is R then you bloody well can keep it... I filed for D and have not regretted it....Im all for R if that is the path you wish to take.... Again I just have seen VERY few successful cases..Especially with BHs.. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
purplesorrow Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Yes i have experienced infidelity...and I somewhat concede some do not take years to accept the WSs A ( But they Will never forget it..and the Affair will forever linger with them) ...But there are Many here ..I will speak as a BH..and have seen ,spoken to and corresponded with many...who will NEVER get over the lies and betrayal...ever... They have been in R for years and the trauma is Still there..Years later..If that is R then you bloody well can keep it... I filed for D and have not regretted it....Im all for R if that is the path you wish to take.... Again I just have seen VERY few successful cases..Especially with BHs.. I was asking the poster I responded to. I know your stance ?. I don't understand writing absolutes for people you don't even know. I one that didn't take years for acceptance. I don't trigger and I can appreciate the people both he and I have grown into. I don't hate, not mad at him and truly wish him well in his life. Our divorce will be final soon. We can share time with our kid with no problems. I have witnessed several successful couples, but I searched them out. I believe people can do it if they want. I'm not one of those however. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
badkarma2013 Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) I was asking the poster I responded to. I know your stance . I don't understand writing absolutes for people you don't even know. I one that didn't take years for acceptance. I don't trigger and I can appreciate the people both he and I have grown into. I don't hate, not mad at him and truly wish him well in his life. Our divorce will be final soon. We can share time with our kid with no problems. I have witnessed several successful couples, but I searched them out. I believe people can do it if they want. I'm not one of those however. Only plying a post off of your statement...again was not disagreeing or pushing at you....If anything ,though i may not agree with all,I hold your post with high regard...Badkarma P.S. I never try to post in absolutes.(.one cant and be honest)....just try to give a different view on a heart wrenching issue.. Edited January 24, 2015 by badkarma2013 1 Link to post Share on other sites
purplesorrow Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Only plying a post off of your statement...again was not disagreeing or pushing at you....If anything ,though i may not agree with all,I hold your post with high regard...Badkarma P.S. I never try to post in absolutes.(.one cant and be honest)....just try to give a different view on a heart wrenching issue.. Thank you. I always know when I see your name, someone is about to get some truth. Your honesty is refreshing. I can admire the boss way you handled your situation. Peace. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
violet1 Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 But what if you don't want it back? Before the affair I was a doormat who cowtoed to my husband and tiptoed around his feelings. Since then I found my backbone and I will put up with no crap from him - even he prefers the new me. And he knows what the consequences would be if he were to cross the new me. Sure, it would be nice if he'd never cheated but I honestly don't know if I'd change it if there was any chance that I'd still be the meek little wifey I was back then. This is how I feel, but I'm the WS not the BS. My H and I never really had good communication from the beginning. Dealing with my A, made us deal with our communication issues. I am NOT pleased with myself for having the A and I would change it in a heartbeat if I could. With that said though, I would never want to go back to marriage (my H agrees) we had prior my A again. He and I have both learned and grown from it so far. We're only a year out from D Day. Of course things could change, but I don't focus on that. I certainly don't want my H to stay with me if he feels he can't forgive me. I don't want either of us to live ours lives regretting that we didn't divorce years prior. Life is too short to live like that. I'm probably going to get sh*t for saying this, but do NOT stay with a WS if you feel like forgiveness is not possible. That's just as cruel as having an A IMHO. Cheating is considered a coward move and I agree with that, but so is staying if you no longer love or can't forgive the WS. My apologies if this has offended anyone, but that is how I feel about it. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
jbrent890 Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 This is how I feel, but I'm the WS not the BS. My H and I never really had good communication from the beginning. Dealing with my A, made us deal with our communication issues. I am NOT pleased with myself for having the A and I would change it in a heartbeat if I could. With that said though, I would never want to go back to marriage (my H agrees) we had prior my A again. He and I have both learned and grown from it so far. We're only a year out from D Day. Of course things could change, but I don't focus on that. I certainly don't want my H to stay with me if he feels he can't forgive me. I don't want either of us to live ours lives regretting that we didn't divorce years prior. Life is too short to live like that. I'm probably going to get sh*t for saying this, but do NOT stay with a WS if you feel like forgiveness is not possible. That's just as cruel as having an A IMHO. Cheating is considered a coward move and I agree with that, but so is staying if you no longer love or can't forgive the WS. My apologies if this has offended anyone, but that is how I feel about it. I think there is a difference between forgiveness and continuing to treat your WS like crap. Have I forgiven my wife? No, but I don't put her down and continue to bring up her crappy decisions. I love my wife. I can't see or want to see myself with anyone else. However, I would have never done to her what she did to me. And yes, she knows how I feel about this and she has accepted it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
violet1 Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I think there is a difference between forgiveness and continuing to treat your WS like crap. Have I forgiven my wife? No, but I don't put her down and continue to bring up her crappy decisions. I love my wife. I can't see or want to see myself with anyone else. However, I would have never done to her what she did to me. And yes, she knows how I feel about this and she has accepted it. I can only speak for myself, but forgiving (in general) is personally important to me. I think there's a huge difference between acceptance and forgiveness. My H has struggled a lot with accepting what I've done. I have told my H that if at any time he feels like he can't forgive me or if it's too much for him to let me know. I don't want him to stay with me if he can't eventually forgive. Of course forgiveness takes time, but if my H still can't forgive me and it's been many years passed D Day than I would want him to let me go. I applaud you for telling your WS exactly how you feel. I'm not completely sure of what your stance is on reconciling with her, but it's a good start if you are both being honest with each for now on. Marriage counseling was a lifesaver for my marriage. We have been working hard on our communication with each other. Yes, I wish I had pushed working on us prior the A, but unfortunately I didn't. I can't focus on what I didn't do prior the A because it doesn't change anything. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
badkarma2013 Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) This is how I feel, but I'm the WS not the BS. My H and I never really had good communication from the beginning. Dealing with my A, made us deal with our communication issues. I am NOT pleased with myself for having the A and I would change it in a heartbeat if I could. With that said though, I would never want to go back to marriage (my H agrees) we had prior my A again. He and I have both learned and grown from it so far. We're only a year out from D Day. Of course things could change, but I don't focus on that. I certainly don't want my H to stay with me if he feels he can't forgive me. I don't want either of us to live ours lives regretting that we didn't divorce years prior. Life is too short to live like that. I'm probably going to get sh*t for saying this, but do NOT stay with a WS if you feel like forgiveness is not possible. That's just as cruel as having an A IMHO. Cheating is considered a coward move and I agree with that, but so is staying if you no longer love or can't forgive the WS. My apologies if this has offended anyone, but that is how I feel about it. ***************************************************************** I appreciate your painful honesty...many WWs here try to minimize their actions and try to imply how a BH should act....Thank You I however do think it is MUCH,MUCH more than just forgiveness... I have forgiven my WW ..( the pain of seeing pics of what she had become was indescribable ) but I forgave her .... However I knew i could never Reconcile ...i could not and would not carry that load...so I filed for D...and as you said I did not want to"Live my life regretting I did not divorce." i have not regretted it one second... Edited January 25, 2015 by badkarma2013 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author flowergirl14 Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 The other day I was thinking to myself...I'm the crazy one for staying with someone who has disrespected and treated me so poorly. However, this process is slower for me than others. I have just recently got to the point where I'm starting to want better for myself. I have started thinking about what D would look like. It scares the heck out of me. My entire identity is tied up as a mother and wife. (I'm a stay at home wife/mom of 21 yrs). I truly love being both a wife and mother. I'm "envious" of those bs who so quickly realized that D was the best choice. Somehow I need to get my self confidence up to where I can D if I choose. Right now, I'm conflicted and scared. I just don't want to be the spouse who is still struggling after 5 years. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
drifter777 Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I was too blindsided - too stunned - too hurt and too ashamed to face the reality of "could I ever forgive". I was too young to realize how horrible the decision to stay with her and just swallow my feelings really was. I needed help and a shoulder to cry on. I needed people around me who could tell me that rug-sweeping was stupid and never works for long. Mostly, I needed counseling from a professional. I think nearly all of us at LS would strongly encourage a young BH to find someone he trusted to talk to. I think if I would have worked through this back then, I wouldn't be here at LS today. 6 Link to post Share on other sites
dichotomy Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I suppose you could ask the WS - the same question, do you wish you BS divorced you (or you them) all those years ago - because maybe they never fully forgave you or fully got over it and you lost that part of them as well?They are no longer married to the person they had married, because the BS changed as well. I know my wife has been thinking about it from time - even tossed it out in heated argumnets from time to time (challenge, threat?). It true what she is upset about. I am not, and cant be that man and husband I was before dDay. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
violet1 Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I was too blindsided - too stunned - too hurt and too ashamed to face the reality of "could I ever forgive". I was too young to realize how horrible the decision to stay with her and just swallow my feelings really was. I needed help and a shoulder to cry on. I needed people around me who could tell me that rug-sweeping was stupid and never works for long. Mostly, I needed counseling from a professional. I think nearly all of us at LS would strongly encourage a young BH to find someone he trusted to talk to. I think if I would have worked through this back then, I wouldn't be here at LS today. Does your wife know how you feel? Does she know that you regret staying with her? If not, I think you should tell her. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
violet1 Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 ***************************************************************** I appreciate your painful honesty...many WWs here try to minimize their actions and try to imply how a BH should act....Thank You I however do think it is MUCH,MUCH more than just forgiveness... I have forgiven my WW ..( the pain of seeing pics of what she had become was indescribable ) but I forgave her .... However I knew i could never Reconcile ...i could not and would not carry that load...so I filed for D...and as you said I did not want to"Live my life regretting I did not divorce." i have not regretted it one second... I applaud you for making a decision that you knew you couldn't handle. Reconciliation is not for everyone. I understand a BS's emotions can changed during R. Even if the BS decides two or three years down the road that R is too much for them, they need to speak up and tell the WS. My biggest fear is that my H is going to end up like Drifter and regret staying with me many years later. I understand that's a consequence of cheating, but I don't want that. Drifter I hope you don't take offense to me calling you out. I know that reconciliation has not been was on you. I honestly feel for you and the pain you're experiencing. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
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