Does the BS wish they had divorced their WS 5,10, 20 years later?

[Selfish]

Only the last two questions were mine. These men are cheating with women so how is it more acceptable for men to cheat? And how is it implied that men cheat more? For every man cheating, there is a woman too.

 

It is still our mysoginist workd we live in. Sometimes in small doses. There is an idea that somehow women are more tainted by an affair and "boys will be boys". I think it is terribly insulting to men. Men are not base animals who rape and f*** when they can. They are as evolved as women and it is only stereotypes and society that tries to make them into idiots who only listen to their penis.

 

Now as to the for every man cheating there is a woman. It is morally bankrupt to be involved with a mm but unless you are in a committed relationship it isn't cheating on the OWs part. But this goes for single OMs too. So i really don't know on a precentage of who cheats more. I do not believe statistics about infidelity or who is cheating. Not as an exact science anyways.

[purplesorrow]

It is still our mysoginist workd we live in. Sometimes in small doses. There is an idea that somehow women are more tainted by an affair and "boys will be boys". I think it is terribly insulting to men. Men are not base animals who rape and f*** when they can. They are as evolved as women and it is only stereotypes and society that tries to make them into idiots who only listen to their penis.

 

Now as to the for every man cheating there is a woman. It is morally bankrupt to be involved with a mm but unless you are in a committed relationship it isn't cheating on the OWs part. But this goes for single OMs too. So i really don't know on a precentage of who cheats more. I do not believe statistics about infidelity or who is cheating. Not as an exact science anyways.

 

I guess I felt the ow in my stbx's affair was cheating herself.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Have not heard from both of you in a while...glad you are back...much respect on this end for you and Mr. Adams...

 

I remember reading of your story months and months ago...and remember you stating ( i know you both were young),,You said you told Mr. Adams too much...

 

My question is ..did he ask for those "details" and do you feel now that you would have handled it another way...

 

Most here believe the Ws should answer EVERY question regardless of the pain it causes....after all they were the ones that betrayed their spouse..and many here feel the BS is due all questions answered..

 

At that time the BS can make a decision to stay or go...they are due at least that..

 

as always hold you answers in high regard...Badkarma

 

P.S. you answer ...i think...may help others who would not quite know what direction to take...

 

First let me thank you for your welcome and acceptance.

 

Hindsight is always 20/20 isn't it? So speculation is much easier having lived the past 31 years.

 

If there is anything I could do over...the first thing is I would never have had the affair. That was the biggest mistake....I have ever made in my life...the worst choice I have ever made.

 

I have wrestled with the idea that maybe I should never have told John...what I

did. He would never had known had I not told him. Could I have lived the remainder of my life with that secret? I don't know. Would I at some point confessed? And would it have been even worse for him to find out later instead of within weeks of my betrayal? I don't know. Did I tell him too much? If I had not volunteered the information would he have eventually asked me those details? I don't know.

 

What I do know is...infidelity on any level is the worst form of betrayal one person can do to another. The one person you vowed to love, Honor ,respect, and be faithful to...you lied to, you disrespected, you hurt and destroyed. The one person who trusted you above all others...you betrayed.

The least you can do is try to help them carry their pain...offer sympathy and understanding, and encouragement and give them time. It takes time to heal..it doesn't come quickly. How much time? I don't know. It took us 30 years. I know of others it took a year or two.

[TrustedthenBusted]

For every man cheating, there is a woman too.

 

Not necessarily. Think about all the married men who use prostitutes or example. Those women aren't cheating. And this is the "oldest profession" on earth so I suspect business is still booming for this renewable resource!

 

 

Not too many married women out there doing this.

[badkarma2013]

Only the last two questions were mine. These men are cheating with women so how is it more acceptable for men to cheat? And how is it implied that men cheat more? For every man cheating, there is a woman too.

 

 

For years is has been accepted "that most men given the chance to cheat... would.."

 

In the last 30 years however Womens infidelity has risen with 2-4% of mens infidelity..

 

'Women wont admit it'... And Men and society can not handle the fallout from what this change in womens behavior ...has done..

 

A study of married couples ( survey was 7-8 thousand..pretty large group) 2008.. Only one question was asked "If you could cheat and NEVER be caught would you do it..? 72% of men said Yes...NO SUPRISE,,,,But what was the Biggest Surprise it that 68% of MW said they would have a A if they would NEVER get caught....

 

Women make money now...they are use to wanting what they want...70% of All Divorces ( according to to the Acadamey of Trial Lawyers) are filed by women...

 

THIS A HUGE CHANGE IN SOCIETY ...and it affects us all...

 

We rarely talk about but it is here..

[TrustedthenBusted]

I think just about everyone would have an affair if they could be assured there would be no negative consequences. I mean why not?

 

If your spouse gave you a get out of jail free card, I think most normal healthy people would use it!

 

We act like it's the worst crime on earth, but infidelity is really just people doing something perfectly natural, after promising they wouldn't.

 

Not trying to diminish the traumatic impact is leaves on people, but I just think we sometimes give it too much weight on the scale is all.

[purplesorrow]

Not necessarily. Think about all the married men who use prostitutes or example. Those women aren't cheating. And this is the "oldest profession" on earth so I suspect business is still booming for this renewable resource!

 

 

Not too many married women out there doing this.

 

I just mean he's not cheating by himself. Someone is helping in some way. Which to me means just as many women don't have problem with him cheating. And sadly, I know several married women who pay because they want a guaranteed experience with a pro. I know two covering college tuition for their boy toys.

[purplesorrow]

I think just about everyone would have an affair if they could be assured there would be no negative consequences. I mean why not?

 

If your spouse gave you a get out of jail free card, I think most normal healthy people would use it!

 

We act like it's the worst crime on earth, but infidelity is really just people doing something perfectly natural, after promising they wouldn't.

 

Not trying to diminish the traumatic impact is leaves on people, but I just think we sometimes give it too much weight on the scale is all.

 

I don't think so. My not cheating actually had very little to do with not hurting my spouse. Lying and deceiving isn't perfectly natural to all.

[katielee]

agree with purple. Take the BS out of the equation, after going through all of this, I realized the person I betrayed in addition to him was myself. If you hold true to your vows and your personal values and you do something behind someone's back, the person you love the most's back, it should absolutely crush you. There is no get out of jail free pass, in my opinion.

[ladydesigner]

I think just about everyone would have an affair if they could be assured there would be no negative consequences. I mean why not?

 

If your spouse gave you a get out of jail free card, I think most normal healthy people would use it!

 

We act like it's the worst crime on earth, but infidelity is really just people doing something perfectly natural, after promising they wouldn't.

 

Not trying to diminish the traumatic impact is leaves on people, but I just think we sometimes give it too much weight on the scale is all.

 

I don't think I agree with this. Infidelity has left me scarred and not by choice. It has taken me 3 years just to get to a place where I feel somewhat like myself again and I have had loads of therapy and have been on medication all due to my WH's infidelity. If this is natural then someone shoot me because I think it is one of the cruelest things a person can do to another.

[badkarma2013]

I think just about everyone would have an affair if they could be assured there would be no negative consequences. I mean why not?

 

If your spouse gave you a get out of jail free card, I think most normal healthy people would use it!

 

We act like it's the worst crime on earth, but infidelity is really just people doing something perfectly natural, after promising they wouldn't.

 

Not trying to diminish the traumatic impact is leaves on people, but I just think we sometimes give it too much weight on the scale is all.

 

Your callous minimizing of what impact infidelity does to a great deal of BSs here i find appalling ....If infidelity is not that big of a Deal for you...WHY are you on here??

[HereNorThere]

I think just about everyone would have an affair if they could be assured there would be no negative consequences. I mean why not?

 

If your spouse gave you a get out of jail free card, I think most normal healthy people would use it!

 

We act like it's the worst crime on earth, but infidelity is really just people doing something perfectly natural, after promising they wouldn't.

 

Not trying to diminish the traumatic impact is leaves on people, but I just think we sometimes give it too much weight on the scale is all.

 

I think this personality type really represents the difference between those that can successfully R and those who can't. There are a lot of people who find the idea of sex with someone outside of their relationship absolutely disgusting a couldn't disagree more with you.

 

I'll agree that having sex is perfectly natural, but affairs are so much more than having sex. The level of pathology it takes to lay in bed next to your child's parent, day after day, lie after lie, exposing them to potential illnesses they should no longer have to worry about is pretty shocking for most.

 

And I should know. In my own life, one of my close relatives cheated on their partner and unknowingly gave them HIV. Now they both have to live with a potentially fatal disease. 10 of thousands of dollars a year in medical bills, 20+ pills a day, higher risk factors for other infections, and all of the other consequences that came along with it. Not to mention, they have 2 children that they constantly worried about exposing the virus to and have to have tested.

Edited January 29, 2015 by HereNorThere

[ladydesigner]

I think this personality type really represents the difference between those that can successfully R and those who can't. There are a lot of people who find the idea of sex with someone outside of their relationship absolutely disgusting a couldn't disagree more with you.

 

I'll agree that having sex is perfectly natural, but affairs are so much more than having sex. The level of pathology it takes to lay in bed next to your child's parent, day after day, lie after lie, exposing them to potential illnesses they should no longer have to worry about is pretty shocking for most.

 

And I should know. In my own life, one of my close relatives cheated on their partner and unknowingly gave them HIV. Now they both have to live with a potentially fatal disease. 10 of thousands of dollars a year in medical bills, 20+ pills a day, higher risk factors for other infections, and all of the other consequences that came along with it. Not to mention, they have 2 children that they constantly worried about exposing the virus to and have to have tested.

 

I agree at this point it was not the sex of the my WH's A that bothers me most. It is the level of deception to keep the A going and the emotional involvement with the OW. Also the time my WH took away from our kids to conduct his A.

[aliveagain]

I agree at this point it was not the sex of the my WH's A that bothers me most. It is the level of deception to keep the A going and the emotional involvement with the OW. Also the time my WH took away from our kids to conduct his A.

 

Infidelity takes a lot of planning and a lot of deception, it is a treason directed at the most important person in your life. It is the highest form of disrespect you can show your spouse, what can that say about who you are and your perception of happiness?

[WasOtherWoman]

It takes time to heal..it doesn't come quickly. How much time? I don't know. It took us 30 years. I know of others it took a year or two.

 

Respectfully, why on God's green earth would you possibly waste 30 years of your life healing? I am sorry, but in my humble opinion, no one is worth giving up 30 years of your life.

[badkarma2013]

Respectfully, why on God's green earth would you possibly waste 30 years of your life healing? I am sorry, but in my humble opinion, no one is worth giving up 30 years of your life.

 

 

I would Never attempt to answer for the Adams...but when i first read their story i was with you...I just didnt get it...my question was why?

 

After many many months of reflection..I saw Mrs Adams was and has been remorseful and (UNDERSTOOD) what this did to Mr. Adams...so many years ago...

 

 

I only surmise Mr. Adams found out way more Details than he could mentally cope with...and struggled (Triggers and self doubt) for Years...But during those years Mrs. Adams Never balked at what she had done nor blame shifted and struggled with Mr Adams in his continued healing.......

 

I think Mr Adams has a love for her that most BHs here will never understand (myself included)....

 

Mrs Adams to this day Understands the horror she unleashed upon her marriage...and will not waiver when asked what is Worst thing you have Ever done......her answer to me and many others will Always be "My choice to have an A"...

 

I do not know why Mr Adams has the love for Mrs Adams he does thru all these years of suffering...but he does.....and She has made sure he felt loved in return...

 

I do not know how it worked for them but is has...I could not have done it..But found a couple who did...Badkarma

Edited January 29, 2015 by badkarma2013

[Betrayed&Stayed]

5 years out.

 

Glad I stayed to work it out. Family is intact, life plan is moving forward, communication is much better.

 

Had I found about about her issues right away, I would have annulled and moved on. But I found out 8 years and two children later. Such is life. Gotta react to what you are dealt.

 

The trick to R is not to view every single selfish act as a mini-affair, or affair related thing.

 

Similar story

 

My D-day was 8 years after the affair. In March it will be 7 yrs since D-day. Had I found out about the affair when it occurred (16 yrs ago) I would've divorced and never looked back. She confessed when we had 2 young children and 10 years of marriage under our belts. I didn't stay for the kids, but the kids motivated me to give it a try and stick it out when it got ugly. It got ugly often! If I were to divorce and be a part-timer Dad, I wanted to know that I gave R my best shot.

 

We're out of the woods so to speak. The first 3 years absolutely sucked and I kept divorce on the table. One day at a time. 5 years out I was able to live a life the resembled my previous life.

 

Random thoughts after reading this thread:

 

My trick was to divide our marriage into 2 marriages. Marriage 1 and Marriage 2. Marriage 1 consists of Wedding day to D-Day. Marriage 2 is D-day to present. For me Marriage 1 is DEAD. All things associated with Marriage 1 has been removed from my life: no pictures displayed, no wedding anniversary, I wear the ring off/on but I removed the engravings, new town, any triggers/reminders are gone, etc.

 

I decided to start over again (Marriage 2) with my WW instead of divorce and starting over with another woman. Why my WW?

 

My trust had been fractured; it doesn't matter if it a new wife or the same.

 

Prior to D-Day our marriage/relationship was happy. I thought we had it all. I believed that our marriage was worth saving.

 

My WW did everything that a WS should do for R to be possible. I also give her credit for confessing even though she was "in the clear".

 

With kids I could never really walk away. We would have been forever tethered by the kids. I would've been part-time dad.

 

If divorced removed the pain, then I would've done it in heartbeat. It doesn't. It only adds to the pile of pain. I would have had to deal with the trauma of the A plus the trauma of the divorce; which brings in the innocent children into the fold.

 

At the time of the A and the time of D-day we were both very different people in a very different place in life. That doesn't diminish the damage, but puts R into perspective.

 

I can't forget the A. It is always there. At some point you can handle it. The rage turns into anger. The anger turns into agony. The agony turns into pain. The pain turns into grief. The grief turns into acceptance.

 

At some point you either "let go" or divorce.

 

After years of IC and MC, and my eyes being open to reality our marriage has a new foundation. Marriage 1 was based on naivety and pedestals. Marriage 2 is based on going through hell together and surviving. It's more authentic. It's more vulnerable. It's intentional. Neither one of us have unrealistic expectations. I know her 100x better now than pre-Dday.

 

R is hard and takes a lot of time. I recommend R only if the conditions are right. Some marriages aren't worth saving. Some WS aren't remorseful... or not remorseful enough. Some WS aren't willing to do the heavy lifting required for R.

 

To answer the ?s in the OP:

 

Do I regret staying? No

Do I wish I had divorced? No, but I would've been just fine if I had.

Am I in a trusting, loving and happy marriage? Yes, as much as any other "happy" marriage. My trust has been knocked down many notches, but that would be the case regardless.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Respectfully, why on God's green earth would you possibly waste 30 years of your life healing? I am sorry, but in my humble opinion, no one is worth giving up 30 years of your life.

 

I will address this but the best person to answer is John.

 

First...you are envisioning thirty years just like the FIRST year after the affair.

It is not that way. With each day comes a little more healing. Each day the commitment grows stronger. Each day the love endures. Each day a little more acceptance. Each day he could see that i was open and honest and trying to regain the trust that i had shattered.

We had...have a wonderful relationship. We are best friends. I have done everything in my power to EARN his love, his trust, his admiration. I have done everything i know to do to make him feel how sorry i am and how very much i love him and how i regret what i have done.

 

I was not perfect...I did not know all the right things to do and the right things to say....and he did not know how to verbalize to me exactly what he was looking for.

 

So life went on...and it was GOOD. We both did our best to give to each other what the other one needed.

 

We had a good relationship and a good marriage. We were committed to each other. We raised our family. We traveled. But there was this little piece....something he just did not feel...something that caused a little nagging fear that said....if she doesn't know how badly i hurt....she might do it again.

 

I never understood in saying that i am sorry....i never gave him what he needed. He needed me to fully understand the pain i had caused. Not lip service...but that i truly understood his PAIN.

 

By coming to a forum...he was able to express what he was looking for....and i return was able to give it to him.

 

No one could live with thirty years of constant pain and suffering.

 

He triggered...yes...mostly at the anniversary of my betrayal. He would be depressed. But happily i say...since giving him what he needed and showing him what he needed to see...he has not triggered like before.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I would Never attempt to answer for the Adams...but when i first read their story i was with you...I just didnt get it...my question was why?

 

After many many months of reflection..I saw Mrs Adams was and has been remorseful and (UNDERSTOOD) what this did to Mr. Adams...so many years ago...

 

 

I only surmise Mr. Adams found out way more Details than he could mentally cope with...and struggled (Triggers and self doubt) for Years...But during those years Mrs. Adams Never balked at what she had done nor blame shifted and struggled with Mr Adams in his continued healing.......

 

I think Mr Adams has a love for her that most BHs here will never understand (myself included)....

 

Mrs Adams to this day Understands the horror she unleashed upon her marriage...and will not waiver when asked what is Worst thing you have Ever done......her answer to me and many others will Always be "My choice to have an A"...

 

I do not know why Mr Adams has the love for Mrs Adams he does thru all these years of suffering...but he does.....and She has made sure he felt loved in return...

 

I do not know how it worked for them but is has...I could not have done it..But found a couple who did...Badkarma

 

Thank you ...you really touched my heart.

[GorillaTheater]

Hey Mrs. Adams! GTdad from TAM says hello.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Hey you!! Great to see you!!!!

[JohnAdams]

Respectfully, why on God's green earth would you possibly waste 30 years of your life healing? I am sorry, but in my humble opinion, no one is worth giving up 30 years of your life.

 

 

I do not feel I wasted 30 years of my life. But, yes, it was a difficult journey at times.

 

 

Let me start with some background. I met my wife when I was 18 and she was 16. We met in church. I joined the Navy a few months later under a delayed entrance program. During this time we dated and fell in love. We married when I finished boot camp and she went everywhere I went while in the Navy for 6 years. We only had each other and we both felt very special about our relationship. It felt like it was supposed to be, like she was sent from God to me. She loved and almost worshiped me. I was so convinced of her love and my love for her that the remote possibility of an affair never entered my mind.

 

 

We got out of the Navy. I got a job with a large corporation. I went back to school and eventually earned my BS and MS degrees. During this time, she began feeling left out. I could tell something was wrong, but, did not know how to fix it. I recommended she go back to school to make her feel better about herself. She went back and started mid-year. That summer she went on a trip with the college choir to Florida. When she returned, she acted like she had really missed me, loved me and was happy to be home. She went back to school in the fall. She would sometimes talk about her English professor but I did not read anything into it. Well, this is when she had her affair.

 

 

After the affair, and before I knew, she called me and sounded very loving. When I got home from work that night, we made love and had that very much back in love feeling. She then told me there was another man. Truthfully, I did not get upset, I though ok she went to lunch with a guy and feels guilty about it. Things were going very well. A couple of weeks later, I came home from my night class and asked her if she F..ked the guy. I expected a no, and was embarrassed I asked her such a question. She kind of hem hawed around and I said oh my god you F..ked him. She said yes, but only once. I went into shock. I did not know what to do. Of all strange places, the next day I went to her mother’s and we talked all day. I wanted to stay married, I wanted her, I was probably a bit pathetic.

 

 

 

I was in pretty deep depression. I went to the doctor and was put on anti-depressants. I wanted her, but thought this may be too much. Even she said love may not be enough. We kept working through it. The first couple of years were really a roller coaster. We had great highs followed by deep lows. I ended up have a revenge affair during this time frame. I told my wife about it. Partly for guilt. Partly to show her I could get someone else. Partly for revenge. At the time, I had never heard of a revenge affair. But, I had one. We kept going. The RA did not make me feel any better, really worse. During the first several years, divorce was always an option. I admit when we bought new cars or homes, the consequences of divorce always went through my head. I thought of our marriage as before and after, two different marriages.

 

 

We raised a family and overall did well. We were happy most of the time. As time went on, we continued to improve. I would still go into depression around D Day. Overall life was good with a bad depression thrown in from time to time. In reality, I could have lived my whole life like this and been ok. I loved my wife. I had a good life. I just had my demons I had to live with. Probably most people are living with some type of Sh.t in their life. You just go on.

 

 

A couple of years ago, we finally reached a place of closure. This is where the book comes in and finally the ability to put this behind us. I no longer think of our marriage as before and after the affair, but one marriage. I can happily think of our times before the affair. We are at a very good place in our relationship.

 

 

Now, once again, I am sure many are going to say there is no way I am sticking around 30 years to heal. Well, even had we not cleared the final hurdle, I would have been fine with my life. We know others in our situation that have lived for years contented but never clearing that last hurdle. Will they ever? Who knows, but, sometimes you live with what life deals you. We are all different and what we did is not for everyone, but, I am glad we stuck it out.

[howcouldInotknow]

****************************************************************

 

 

Bravo...Well Stated...I sincerely believe ( as a lot of others here do..) That MANY go into R thinking ..I/WE can make this work ..WHEN THEY KNOW they can NEVER get over the lies and deception and the self esteem issues (doubts ,insecurities and suspicion) ...AS many have posted and on other forums ..(mostly BHs...again the gender thing.) they still trigger,have esteem issues and find themselves filled with doubt ...and this after YEARS in R ..not weeks or months ....YEARS...The nightmare for some has no end in sight.....

 

I ask WHY??....What is the purpose..."You love them?"..How...this person has destroyed your marriage ...broken the very thing you thought was forever..and did this by lying,deceiving and betraying you...HOW?

 

I knew the moment things were shown to me...and after i got a" full confession..only after she saw the pics "...I could never get over it...I would forever trigger..have doubts and have never ending suspicion...

 

I have never regretted Divorcing and i never trigger or doubt myself as i did the days following D-DAY...

 

P.S. Before i get hammered ..I AM NOT anti R...If that is for you,by all means do it...I have just never seen it work out much..

 

I grew up in a home such as this. My mom stayed and all through out her 20's and 30's she was miserable. I look at pics and my heart breaks you can see it all over her face. In my opinion if you are still having triggers, and bad days and blow ups then you aren't happy. My gf is currently reconciling with her cheating husband. Let me tell you if this guy doesn't answer when she calls or is late coming home you can see the insecurity, the paranoia, mistrust etc. the entire atmosphere changes. It's been six years since DDay for them. Most couples I know who chose to stay are very similar. They manage to get by day to day and if you ask they will both say they are happy. I guess happiness means something different to everyone.

[WasOtherWoman]

Thank you, Adamses, for trying to explain your perspective.

 

That does make sense to me, I suppose... it really was more the actual time frame that threw me a bit. As long as the 30 years have been more happy than not, that is really what any marriage strives for, right?

 

For myself, when I was a BW all those years ago I looked ahead at what my life might be like if I stayed. I knew that I would probably turn into the worst version of myself if I stayed. Suspicious, untrusting, feeling the need to search, and snoop, etc etc and simply decided that I did not want to be that person. I was not going to let his actions turn me into that person. I did not want to spend the next however many years trying to get over this. Whether he was remorseful or not really became sort of irrelevant for me...

 

I did appreciate your perspective though, so thank you....

[autumnnight]

Sadly, it looks like the Adams' are gone. I can't say I blame them. You couldn't pay me enough to subject myself to sharing something so painful only to deal with crap.