Does the BS wish they had divorced their WS 5,10, 20 years later?

[merrmeade]

People who have marriage of conveniences that work always respect one another.

Too simple, dear Selfish. What's 'conveniences'? What's 'work'? What's 'respect'? You can have some respect, some fun, some pity, some give-and-take for mutual benefit, and probably more. Respect is one variable. Love can even be one of them.

[badkarma2013]

Main source of happiness being marriage is not what I was talking about. It was about liking yourself and having self respect but continuing to live with someone who you think of in such a derogatory way and who acts like his cheating was just a little forgivable whoopsie and shouldnbe just got over.

 

People who have marriage of conveniences that work always respect one another.

 

*******************************************************************

 

I agree it is about liking yourself and having self respect...However I have several friends who have been married for years .They can barely stay in the same room....drive 2 cars to the same function...and have not been in the same bed for years...They stay for ..Fear of loss.. Fear...or Convenience ..who knows

 

They may be in a marriage of convenience...but i can assure you they have NO respect for one another..

[merrmeade]

I think people always have reasons for staying. I do think some people are just not honest with themselves about what those reasons actually are.

Or maybe they can't yet put it in words. Or maybe they shouldn't have to explain themselves. I like being challenged and don't mind saying the best I can and then end with that's the best I know right now. If that's not being honest with myself, okay, too. Don't care. Like I said, just want to be happy and not be depressed, bitter or resentful. If that's better without him, I'll do it.

 

But I have not said much about how he has changed. I have an urgent errand at the moment, but will leave it at that. He has and there's promise. I like being old with him sometimes.

 

I think I might also feel a great deal self-respect, if I could come out of this feeling great about myself again and enjoying his company most of the time. I might but it's not my goal at the moment. I am not perfect and have not given up on MC. Just not right now. Right now is IC and me.

[autumnnight]

Or maybe they can't yet put it in words. Or maybe they shouldn't have to explain themselves. I like being challenged and don't mind saying the best I can and then end with that's the best I know right now. If that's not being honest with myself, okay, too. Don't care. Like I said, just want to be happy and not be depressed, bitter or resentful. If that's better without him, I'll do it.

 

But I have not said much about how he has changed. I have an urgent errand at the moment, but will leave it at that. He has and there's promise. I like being old with him sometimes.

 

I think I might also feel a great deal self-respect, if I could come out of this feeling great about myself again and enjoying his company most of the time. I might but it's not my goal at the moment. I am not perfect and have not given up on MC. Just not right now. Right now is IC and me.

 

All of this is true. Honestly, the person who has experienced such crushing betrayal shouldn't have to justify their choice one way or the other. I think for anyone who has experienced great pain, understanding why the choice is made can help them achieve their healing or non healing goals. I also think that one's reasons for staying can change and evolve over time. For example, maybe one initially stays because they were in shock and the kids were small. Then later they stay because of the time investment or because they are waiting until the time to leave is better. Or maybe later they are staying because there has been real healing/peace/forgiveness, or they are headed that way.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I don't think anybody here is asking anyone else to justify anything.

 

I am simply trying to understand where merrmeade is coming from. I am trying to understand what it is you are looking for.

 

Do you want validation that it is ok to stay in a relationship because it is comfortable for both parties? If that is what you want...then who am i to say it isn't right for you?

 

Do you want encouragement to leave? Again I say do what you think is best for you.

 

Do you want validation that you have every right to be angry and upset and scared and confused? Hell yes!

 

But i don't know what you are looking for. I certainly am not passing judgment of any kind and i sympathize with you that you are in this situation. But I quite frankly don't know if you are happy or not...because you are not being consistent with what you say. I grow more confused with each post you make.

 

I can say...I support you in whatever decision you think is best for you...there are no right and wrong answers. You must do what you think you need to do...if that means living the rest of your life with your husband or divorcing him. No one else has the correct answer because we are not you. I think being in IC is an excellent decision..maybe it will help you to sort out what it is you are looking for.

 

I would like to ask...is your husband even aware of the struggles you are having? Have you shared with him these feelings? Has he told you how he feels as well?

[Confused48]

Do you want validation that it is ok to stay in a relationship because it is comfortable for both parties? If that is what you want...then who am i to say it isn't right for you?

 

I like to hear from those who stay and are not sure why or if it is right. To hear I'm not the only one.

 

Do you want encouragement to leave? Again I say do what you think is best for you.

 

I like to hear from those that did not stay. To see how that works out.

 

But i don't know what you are looking for. I certainly am not passing judgment of any kind and i sympathize with you that you are in this situation. But I quite frankly don't know if you are happy or not...because you are not being consistent with what you say. I grow more confused with each post you make.

 

I share her confusion and am just as inconsistent in my feelings.

 

I would like to ask...is your husband even aware of the struggles you are having? Have you shared with him these feelings? Has he told you how he feels as well?

 

I don't know about her but, I for one, would not share these feelings with WS. Would not like to show that kind of vulnerability to WS.

[Zenstudent]

I think it's difficult for a lot of people to really understand how it really feels to have a LTR destroyed. At the core.

 

Confusion rules. You're somewhere below ground zero, trying the best you to determine what's up and what's down. You're facing a person you thought you knew really well, but in fact, you didn't.

 

Who is this person? Why did she do this to us? What's going on inside her mind? Why does she say that she wants me as a future partner? Money, kids, fear of the unknown, love? Is she honest with me? Is she for real, and again who is this person? Is it safe to be vulnerable again or not?

 

These feelings are often felt for years. It's so easy for you guys to say "Stay or go - decide now".

 

I have decided - for now as in "at this moment" - to stay. I reserve the right to change my mind, and if I do, I don't plan on telling her before I'm ready for it. I'm OK with that. Apparantly, it's a common thing to do, to screw your loved ones, so I guess it can happen again, any time. Or not. One day at a time.

 

It all seems so easy for you to handle - well good for you, but I can certainly relate to the feelings of the betrayed people on this thread. You do the best you can with the knowledge you have at the time, and that might change - just like the feelings.

[merrmeade]

Hear, hear, autumnnight and Confused! You both understand and explain well the gray in-between of don't know yet, still got stuff to deal with and figure out, and can't say where it's going and being okay with that. LS agnostics.

 

I also like Mrs. Adams' very nice summary of my ambivalence, even contradictory presentations, and appreciate her caring gestures to home in on the right issue, but not sure I can clarify any better than to say all of it's been true at some point.

 

I remember a few weeks after Dday becoming uncomfortable when someone on LS tried to pin me down on the D question, saying that if I made a decision, had a goal, it would be easier to advise me. I still feel this way.

 

Why can't just understanding be a goal? Understanding includes who my H was then and who he is now. How has he changed? What is important to him now as opposed to then? How does he view what he did?

[Mrs. John Adams]

didn't DDAY happen many years ago? and you decided to stay together? and now you are having doubts? is that the issue?

 

Bless your heart...truth is you don't know what you want right? and boy i understand that.

 

John wanted me..but he wanted it the way it used to be...and he knew he could never have that back. So we settled into our marriage..both still loving each other and both wanting what was impossible....that the affair never happened.

 

We never wished we had not stayed together though...and i think that is hearing from you.

 

You are right dear...I am really trying to be helpful and to understand. I feel your frustration and my heart is breaking for you.

 

and those questions you have...you should be asking your husband...because only he can answer them. and personally...he OWES you answers...

Edited February 9, 2015 by Mrs. John Adams

[merrmeade]

didn't DDAY happen many years ago? and you decided to stay together? and now you are having doubts? is that the issue?

 

Bless your heart...truth is you don't know what you want right? and boy i understand that.

 

John wanted me..but he wanted it the way it used to be...and he knew he could never have that back. So we settled into our marriage..both still loving each other and both wanting what was impossible....that the affair never happened.

 

We never wished we had not stayed together though...and i think that is hearing from you.

 

You are right dear...I am really trying to be helpful and to understand. I feel your frustration and my heart is breaking for you.

 

and those questions you have...you should be asking your husband...because only he can answer them. and personally...he OWES you answers...

Not understanding these differences needs to be okay. Not being able to give everyone hope for what you have needs to be okay.

 

My H is not you and will not be - ever. I'm okay with that. He is still very sorry for the 4 affairs he had in our 40-year marriage. He never confessed willingly; he was caught. There was one time almost 35 years ago that I found out about from the OW who said they "almost screwed" but didn't. I bought his explanation and never mentioned it again afterward.

 

1. I found out 2-1/2 years ago (May 2012) about A#5, a 3-year EA with my sister-in-law, and A#1, a PA in graduate school. He was inspired by "How to Help Your Spouse Heal" but simply could not do it. He was genuinely sorry, but could never voluntarily offered information and trickle-truthed, minimized and omitted, e.g.:
   
2. A#4 was an EA, some inappropriate touching, with a mutual 'friend' - not admitted until 3 months later (Sept 2012).
   
3. A#3 was a PA with sex with the secretary at his first job. She married his brother. He blamed her.
   
4. There's lots of information he's withheld over the years, not just the As.
   

So 2-1/2 years.

[Lion Heart]

Getting divorce was not my first choice, even being married to a serial cheater. I would have stayed together for my kids.

 

Now a little over 2 years past Dday #2 Getting divorced was the best thing for ME.

 

I'm still not sure it was the best thing for MY KIDS.

 

Rest assured it was.

Hopefully it's the most thorough lesson they ever learnt.

 

LH

[Mrs. John Adams]

Thank you merrmeade..that me helps to understand a lot better.

 

Madam...you are dealing with wayyyyyy too much. Your husband has been an unremorseful serial cheater for a long time...he has read the best book i know to get his mind where it should be...and he cant wrap his head around it because he doesn't want to. Books, advice....only help if you are willing to do the work...and quite apparently...he isn't.

 

At this point...you need to not think about him...but think about you. YOU need to do what is best for you....

 

It sounds to me like you are detaching from him to save yourself...and boy do i understand that!

 

So i think you are trying to decide if staying with him for companionship and finances...is worth the hurt and mind games you suffer while doing so.

 

Only you of course know the answer...but i will tell you this...if ever i supported the decision to divorce...this would be the time. If it has only been 2 1/2 years since his last affair...it is totally understandable why you are in such turmoil.

 

My dear....I will be praying for you and i certainly hope you continue with your IC. My heart breaks for you..no one should ever have to endure what you have....

[Confused48]

didn't DDAY happen many years ago? and you decided to stay together?

 

Meerrmead and I have a lot in common. Dday was July of 2012 for me.

 

John wanted me..but he wanted it the way it used to be...and he knew he could never have that back. So we settled into our marriage..both still loving each other and both wanting what was impossible....that the affair never happened.

 

Funny, my WS and I both wish for the ability to turn back the clock. I have doubts about a LOT of what WS says but I believe 100% that if we could, WS would agree to turn back the clock and never have entered into the A.

 

We never wished we had not stayed together though...and i think that is hearing from you.

 

It is very helpful to hear this is true for you. Thank you.

 

and those questions you have...you should be asking your husband...because only he can answer them. and personally...he OWES you answers...

 

Do we dare be that vulnerable to our WS? For me the answer is no. Would we even believe the WS, after all the TT and gaslighting we endured? For me no, so it is pointless, even if I could be that vulnerable.

 

Your husband has been an unremorseful serial cheater for a long time...he has read the best book i know to get his mind where it should be...and he cant wrap his head around it because he doesn't want to. Books, advice....only help if you are willing to do the work...and quite apparently...he isn't.

 

My WS read and failed to absorb much, if anything, from your recommended book and others. Went to IC and lied to the IC. Went to MC and lied to the MC.

 

At this point...you need to not think about him...but think about you. YOU need to do what is best for you....

 

That has been my only concern for a long time. I do fell compassion for WS's pain and try not to add to that. However, I will never do anything to help WS that exposes me to more paid or danger from WS.

 

If it has only been 2 1/2 years since his last affair...it is totally understandable why you are in such turmoil.

 

This is also good to hear. It sure seems that a lot of people here on LS think we should not still be confused at this point in time.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Confused...I am so sorry you too find yourself in this place.

 

When I read how to help your spouse heal from your affair....I had been through thirty years of reconciliation...and it clicked for me....the bells and whistles went off. John sent me the title in an email. I was at work when I got it. I downloaded it and did not put it down until I finished it. I cried and cried because it told me not to do and say the very things I had done and said for thirty years. I was so ready for someone to tell me what I needed to do to help him.

 

It is not a book for everyone...but it certainly can't hurt. I do think the WS has to be willing to open themselves up to respond to it...and not every WS is ready to do the work required to heal their bs.

 

There is not one day that goes by that I wish I could undo what I did...not one single day...and I suspect that will be the case the rest of my life....and I KNOW it will be the case for John.

 

Something I want to clarify for you...if you decide to reconcile...which you have....your WS must be willing to tell you everything. They must answer all of your questions honestly and completely. This does not make you vulnerable...it puts you in the drivers seat. If for any reason you suspect they are lying, trickle truthing, blame shifting...etc...stop them and remind them that they are still there with you because you made that decision...not them.

 

John tells me he felt helpless in the beginning...isn't that funny? I felt like he was the one in charge. I asked him if I could stay...it was his decision.

 

Now having said that...you certainly cannot force the WS to stay if they don't want to...but the bs has power...don't ever think you don't.

 

Reconciliation takes both people doing their part. One person cannot reconcile...no matter how much you may want it.

 

We are successful..because neither of us ever gave up...because both of us still loved each other..and because we were worth it as a couple.

Edited February 10, 2015 by Mrs. John Adams

[Mrs. John Adams]

Forgot to add...they say it takes 2-5 years for reconciliation. But remember....we are all different...we process differently. It took us thirty years to get to this point.

 

This is not a contest...who can heal the quickest or the best. You need to take care of yourselves and do what you need to do to heal. And also..if after a while..you decide the reconciliation just is not working...and you need to divorce....you did not fail. You tried. Infidelity is a horrible thing...and healing takes time and love and understanding and patience. Don't be hard on yourselves.

[Lion Heart]

Badkarma,

Do you have peace now that you are divorced? Does the divorce help you heal and get over the bitterness of betrayal? Do you still have triggers and anger? Or are you still processing?

 

It seems as if adultery is the worse form of warfare, because it's launched against you by someone you loved.

 

BadKarma I get you.

 

I think adultery is widely held as a deal breaker. It was a deal breaker in my last marraige. The insults were too great. Our onky child a baby girl was ill when my exWH cheated on me with a girl we both knew. WH could do THAT THEN???

To me and his "precious" daughter!

 

Out of there the next day. Moved an hour away and got on with planning my life without him. Went to stacks of groups for counselling. Went to MC pfffff waste of time.

 

BEST THING I EVER DID was leave him! Free of the crap he dumped on us, yay!!! And it was totally liberating.

 

I got my job back, bought my first house with my brother. My brother was and remains a model father figure to all my children. I got promoted, bought another house and another house too!

 

Now I'm here trying to deal with it again because this WH has stayed. Errrggghhhh it's horrible. Reconciliation is a horrendous experience for me (yeah not speaking for everyone just me). SO.....

 

I've got my exit plan and do something every day towards it. Once the house is in my name only, he's toast from where I'm standing now. A miracle would have to occur for a successful R or even a little of my hope.

 

Divorce was a much better option for me before. R is ugly so D is looking very good indeed.

 

Lion Heart.

[Lion Heart]

BadKarma I get you.

 

I think adultery is widely held as a deal breaker. It was a deal breaker in my last marraige. The insults were too great. Our onky child a baby girl was ill when my exWH cheated on me with a girl we both knew. WH could do THAT THEN???

To me and his "precious" daughter!

 

Out of there the next day. Moved an hour away and got on with planning my life without him. Went to stacks of groups for counselling. Went to MC pfffff waste of time.

 

BEST THING I EVER DID was leave him! Free of the crap he dumped on us, yay!!! And it was totally liberating.

 

I got my job back, bought my first house with my brother. My brother was and remains a model father figure to all my children. I got promoted, bought another house and another house too!

 

Now I'm here trying to deal with it again because this WH has stayed. Errrggghhhh it's horrible. Reconciliation is a horrendous experience for me (yeah not speaking for everyone just me). SO.....

 

I've got my exit plan and do something every day towards it. Once the house is in my name only, he's toast from where I'm standing now. A miracle would have to occur for a successful R or even a little of my hope.

 

Divorce was a much better option for me before. R is ugly so D is looking very good indeed.

 

Lion Heart.

 

 

One last thing... the exWH has been married again for about 15 years and does ALL the same things to his current wife that he did to us. He's even tried to have an A with me!! My cousins and anything else that passes his way. His wife puts up with it. He's older, uglier and far fatter so I bet he pays for it now.

 

Happy to be out of that circus. Not happy in THIS circus!

 

Leopards....Spots full stop.

 

Lion Heart.

[badkarma2013]

One last thing... the exWH has been married again for about 15 years and does ALL the same things to his current wife that he did to us. He's even tried to have an A with me!! My cousins and anything else that passes his way. His wife puts up with it. He's older, uglier and far fatter so I bet he pays for it now.

 

Happy to be out of that circus. Not happy in THIS circus!

 

Leopards....Spots full stop.

 

Lion Heart.

 

I knew R would NEVER be an option .. so settled foranother .."scorched earth"...as I stated ..if she thought she could have a 8-10 fuc&fest with the OM and both of them would walk unscathed ,they were sadly mistaken.....Needless to say we ALL learned and hard and nasty lesson...

 

And today I am the better for it... Im in a circus today but it is MY circus and I am the ringmaster...Dont like it leave.......Badkarma

 

ps Good Luck ...Hope you find peace very soon...

[merrmeade]

Meerrmead and I have a lot in common. Dday was July of 2012 for me.

John wanted me..but he wanted it the way it used to be...and he knew he could never have that back. So we settled into our marriage..both still loving each other and both wanting what was impossible....that the affair never happened.

Funny, my WS and I both wish for the ability to turn back the clock. I have doubts about a LOT of what WS says but I believe 100% that if we could, WS would agree to turn back the clock and never have entered into the A.

 

Do we dare be that vulnerable to our WS? For me the answer is no. Would we even believe the WS, after all the TT and gaslighting we endured? For me no, so it is pointless, even if I could be that vulnerable.

 

My WS read and failed to absorb much, if anything, from your recommended book and others. Went to IC and lied to the IC. Went to MC and lied to the MC.[/b

I do feel compassion for WS's pain and try not to add to that.However, I will never do anything to help WS...expose me to more pain or danger...

If it has only been 2 1/2 years since his last affair...it is totally understandable why you are in such turmoil.

This is also good to hear. It sure seems that a lot of people here on LS think we should not still be confused at this point in time.

Indeed, we have a lot in common, C. — from the timing of Dday (a month apart) to the way our WSs relate to their deeds, themselves and our healing. I wanted to comment on some items in bold above:

• When you come down to it the question of how everybody feels about the past or wishes s/he had done is kind of meaningless since time travel is still science fiction. When our Hs and other WSs say they would never have entered into the A if they could turn back the clock blah blah, it's a statement of regret (for whatever reason) and insight that is definitely worth something. However, I don't agree at all that they really and truly have plumbed the depths of their tendencies and responses to situations and give 0 credit for the impossible speculation. In the same way, my statement that I would surely have divorced then had I all the information, mindset and wisdom (ha!) I have today is also a statement of regret about my cluelessness at the time. It doesn't mean I wish I'd never had his children or something. Good grief! This question needs to go away.
  
• Would we even believe the WS, after all the TT and gaslighting we endured? / I will never do anything to help WS...expose me to more pain or danger... Solidarity here, too. No wonder we become so cynical. On the other hand, my IC therapist says that if one person in a relationship can be vulnerable, it can save the relationship (if that's the goal). The problem, of course, is the trust, and what C. is saying, I think, is that we cannot afford to give our WSs all our trust. I actually think my H understands this better than anyone and doesn't push me at all, especially since it's something that defines him.
  
• Went to MC and lied to the MC. Yep. I never pushed for IC though hoped for it as an extension of successful MC but gave up finally. He would minimize, blameshift and occasionally even explode after we left because he felt so exposed and threatened. His issues of trust and inability to make himself vulnerable go deep, and he has no clue as to the value and meaning of these qualities, doesn't appreciate them in others, much less want to acquire them. I suggested we stop MC for financial reasons, knowing he would jump on it, and said I was starting IC myself with this warning: "If I get better on my own [rather than through us working together in MC], then it's for me, not for us. I don't know how I'll feel about 'us' later and give no guarantees or promises." I don't think he understood and won't remember my having said it later anyway.
  
• I do feel compassion for WS's pain and try not to add to that. I also feel compassion for the pain and the character flaws. Deep down he knows that he screwed up big time and can't expect much. He lies at the drop of a hat if something vital is at stake because he's never felt safe anywhere with anyone. Loving unselfishly without fear of consequence is not even a concept for someone who's unable to let down his guard long enough to try. He doesn't respect true loyalty and vulnerability as a choice because he can never see it as other than a weakness. I feel sorry for him a lot of the time now because he's stuck here and can't talk unfettered with me about, for example, how he felt then compared to now about what he did, about honesty, about me. It's just more detail and more reflection than he is able to give or bear to reveal yet again. I'm okay with that now that TT is pretty much over or, at least, now that I'm satisfied with what I know.
  
• a lot of people here on LS think we should not still be confused... It's not confusion; it's indigestion. If we're talking about a serial cheater, there may be a helluva lot of sh-t sandwiches to digest — like the pile of excrement shoved down my throat in a mere 2-1/2 years.

Nevertheless, he WILL stick by me if that's what I want and he'll never hurt me again. If we argue, he won't push that far, he won't stay mad (if he is), and he won't hold it against me. He gives me an enormous margin for all my foibles now. He's gentle and accepting. My right to happiness is incontestable if there's ever a conflict or question. And these things we didn't discuss. He just does it. Granted, the reason may be his guilt and regret for having hurt me and not real, unconditional love for me, but I do not doubt that this will not change. And so, I stay for now.

Edited February 10, 2015 by merrmeade

[merrmeade]

One last thing... the exWH has been married again for about 15 years and does ALL the same things to his current wife that he did to us. He's even tried to have an A with me!! My cousins and anything else that passes his way. His wife puts up with it. He's older, uglier and far fatter so I bet he pays for it now.

 

Happy to be out of that circus. Not happy in THIS circus!

 

Leopards....Spots full stop.

 

Lion Heart.

So sorry to hear you're in the middle of the worst thing that can happen in, not only a marriage, but a lifetime, Lion Heart, but would offer this possibility: R may seem horrendous because you have to stay and deal with all the awfulness head-on, whereas if you leave, you get to start over and not dwell. Maybe?

 

Note: Also, I posted on your thread a suggestion about having your thread moved to the Infidelity forum from "Cheating," etc.

[Confused48]

 

your WS must be willing to tell you everything. They must answer all of your questions honestly and completely. This does not make you vulnerable...it puts you in the drivers seat. If for any reason you suspect they are lying, trickle truthing, blame shifting...etc...stop them and remind them that they are still there with you because you made that decision...not them.

 

We can't make them tell us things we don't know, things they want to hide. We can ask but that is all. And to ask when you are not ready to walk if they say no, or if they lie, that is the worst kind of vulnerability.

 

Sure, I hold the power to end it. It's my decision now. Until I'm sure I'm ready to do that though, it's really not relevant. So right up to the day I pull the plug, I have no real power.

 

I think, in my case, I really only have the power to end it all. Once I get to the point of being ready to end it, I'll be like Lionheart, where nothing short of an act of god could stop it. I don't think WS understands this though, so until that day comes, I'm pretty powerless.

 

 

 

Leopards....Spots full stop.

 

Lion Heart.

 

A phrase that I use a lot now days involves a tiger and it's stripes, lol.

[Mrs. John Adams]

if you are both willing to reconcile...and the ws is not willing to answer your questions honestly...i dont hold out much hope for the relationship. One of the things that must happen is complete transparency. the ws must be willing to be an open book. Part of the healing process has to involve the bs seeing the ws willing to do whatever it takes to rebuild trust in the relationship.

 

The ws must be doing everything they can to heal the bs....if they aren't...there is no remorse...without remorse...you can't forgive...without forgiveness...the marriage will not heal.

[Selfish]

I think something to note here is that both confused and meremeade (who are living at limbo) say their spouse is remorseful to a point but what they describe is not remorse. At least not the type of remorse needed to rebuild a healthy relationship.

 

There are people who genuinly regret the pain they caused their spouse. But it is more of a "I'm sorry I hurt you/if I hurt you". Then there are people who genuinly regret the affair itself AND the pain it causes. They are sorry they cheated and if they could do it over they would not enter into the affair in the first place.

 

It isn't even the whipping that WS get hear about "sorry they were caught because otherwise they'd still have their cake". Though that is true for some it often is that they are sorry for the pain they caused. But still do not truly regret the affair.

 

You can't change people like that. But if the affair itself is seen as something to "get over" they just want things to be normal again. They often cannot fully understand why the BS is still so upseT.

 

Because no one is a mind reader And they don't know what is in their ws head I am far more in favour of divorce than reconciliation. Staying in a marriage waiting for someone to change, no matter the situation, isn't healthy for anyone. But I do understand people give second chances. And I am thankful I got one. But I don't think it is a deserved gift. And I don't think any ws should act like it is. And i don't think any bs should feel be obligated to give one.

 

So that is why I ask "why do you stay". What is the true reason for staying. Specially when the love is severely damaged and the respect gone. Sometims answering that question, really answering, can clear a lot of cobwebs.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Yes selfish...I concur...it was what I felt and did for thirty years...and it was not enough. I was genuinely sorry for my transgressions...but remorse is much deeper...much more raw. Remorse is taking responsibility for causing the pain your spouse feels...gut wrenching sorrow tha you know and accept that responsibility.

 

I never understood why John could not just get over it...why he continued to punish me year after year. Why couldn't he just move on? Why? Fear...pure fear...how could he ever trust me again to not hurt him if I did not know how he felt? When I finally understood it...everything fell into place.

 

As the bs..you are looking for reassurance that you can live with the WS and not be scared all the time if the "next" time.

 

Until John KNEW that I truly understood how he hurt....he feared I might hurt him again.

 

I hear that in the voices here...I hear they don't have that reassurance...they don't have the remorse from their spouse to say I forgive you for what you have done to me. Without remorse forgiveness cannot come...without forgiveness..healing cannot come either.

 

I am no expert...I can only tell you what I did wrong...and I did not give John remorse...I am sorry is a start...but what are you sorry for? I was sorry I committed adultery...I was sorry I made a bad choice....I was sorry I hurt John...but now I understand I hurt him...I destroyed his trust...I took away his comfort...I took away the life we had...

 

And I can never take it away or give him back what I destroyed. But I can help him heal and I can make him comfortable and I can give him reassurance.

 

Does this make sense?

 

You know something came to me today..

 

When I came to understand remorse...it was like this...

 

It hit me....oh my god...what have I done to you! Not what have I done to me..not what have I done to this marriage...it was oh my god....what have I done to you John!

That's when I knew that after thirty years it was what he needed to know...that I truly understood what I did to him.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Mrs. John Adams
A new revelation

[merrmeade]

When I came to understand remorse...it was like this...

 

It hit me....oh my god...what have I done to you! Not what have I done to me..not what have I done to this marriage...it was oh my god....what have I done to you John!

That's when I knew that after thirty years it was what he needed to know...that I truly understood what I did to him.

That about sums it up.