Does the BS wish they had divorced their WS 5,10, 20 years later?

[dichotomy]

Well, I have to agree with this. I also realized that sex isn't special -

 

The angry outbursts you see, I think it's because few people like want to accept, that they are not that special, and maybe never was.

 

Yes....

 

This touches on a larger concept for me as sex is a big part of the issues in our marriage after dDay. The problem is as i deal more and more with the sex not being special or valued in our marriage - the more I think i myself could be at risk of getting it outside the marriage. Its not a revenge thing - more like I am tried of arguing that it should be special and sought after inside a marriage. So if its not special - why not get it anywhere. Sigh....

Edited February 24, 2015 by dichotomy

[drifter777]

My H was bothered by the lies, the secrets and the emotional aspect. The sex part bothered him, but not as much as the other components. What makes sex special is the mutual love that's shared. Without love sex is just two people getting their rocks off IMO.

 

If your BH wasn't devastated by the sex as much as the other things then you had a good chance to R and it seems as though you did. You are both lucky as that single element could have been a non-starter for R.

 

Our sex is still special after the D Day because our M has become stronger. I do understand what you are saying though. Does your wife know that you no longer believe that sex with her is special? If my H felt the way you do I would want to know so I could put an end to the misery once and for all. I would not want to live the rest of my life with past thrown in my face. It's fine if people can't get passed an affair. If you can't don't agree to reconcile. Or end the relationship as soon as you realize that it's something you can't handle.

Yes, she knows. And she understands why I feel this way and, well, what can she say? As is pointed out many times on this forum - she can't un-fu*k OM.

[violet1]

If your BH wasn't devastated by the sex as much as the other things then you had a good chance to R and it seems as though you did. You are both lucky as that single element could have been a non-starter for R.

 

 

Yes, she knows. And she understands why I feel this way and, well, what can she say? As is pointed out many times on this forum - she can't un-fu*k OM.

Drifter,

 

 

I don't always agree with you, but I do appreciate your honesty. You're absolutely right that she can't "un f*ck" the OM. Is there anything she can do to make the sex special again? Is there anything she can do to earn your forgiveness? You're also correct that it depends on how a person views sex. The affair sex for me was not special. It was exciting, but you always feel that rush of adrenaline when you are doing something you know is wrong or risky.

[badkarma2013]

Quote:

Originally Posted by violet1 View Post

My H was bothered by the lies, the secrets and the emotional aspect. The sex part bothered him, but not as much as the other components. What makes sex special is the mutual love that's shared. Without love sex is just two people getting their rocks off IMO.

 

 

 

So it was the Lies and the betrayal that got to him..? Violet1 I dont know your whole story..however if he stayed that maybe why...

Edited February 24, 2015 by badkarma2013

[drifter777]

Drifter,

 

I don't always agree with you, but I do appreciate your honesty. You're absolutely right that she can't "un f*ck" the OM. Is there anything she can do to make the sex special again? Is there anything she can do to earn your forgiveness? You're also correct that it depends on how a person views sex.

I just recently posted this - it will give you a better understanding of how I got to where I am. Post #96 at the bottom of this page:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/516881-forgiveness-7.html

[TrustedthenBusted]

Your callous minimizing of what impact infidelity does to a great deal of BSs here i find appalling ....If infidelity is not that big of a Deal for you...WHY are you on here??

 

Sorry, just seeing this response now.

 

I think you misread me. I was as devastated as anyone else on this board at first, and for years after. I think I've been very clear about this in many many threads.

 

What I was trying to convey is that the desire to be with people other than our mate is perfectly natural, and easily understood. Yet when it happens, our reaction to it is as devastating to us as if we were dealing with the first recorded case of infidelity in history. We all waht to know WHY? How could this have happened? When the answer is pretty friggen simple.

 

that said, I too was shocked and disgusted and hurt and all the rest. I was including myself in that "we" I mentioned.

 

But I do think that putting it into perspective is a big part of the healing process. At one point I looked down at my city from a plane and saw the millions of houses, and wondered just how many of them had cheaters hooking up under their roofs at that moment. I figured a lot of them did.

 

With billions of people in the world, at any given moment, millions and millions of them are cheating on someone. And you can be sure that many of us on here have been cheated on in the past too, and just never found out.

 

I was in love with a girl all through college. But if I found out today that she had cheated on me.... meh. What's done is done. Not going to let it ruin my life.

 

And slowly, I've gotten to the same place with my wife. Not going to let it ruin MY life.

 

Again, this is not to domish the importance of honesty in a relationship. We definitely DID NOT have that, and need it. But I can't change it, I can only move forward knowing now what I didn't know then.

Edited February 24, 2015 by TrustedthenBusted

[Selfish]

Yes....

 

This touches on a larger concept for me as sex is a big part of the issues in our marriage after dDay. The problem is as i deal more and more with the sex not being special or valued in our marriage - the more I think i myself could be at risk of getting it outside the marriage. Its not a revenge thing - more like I am tried of arguing that it should be special and sought after inside a marriage. So if its not special - why not get it anywhere. Sigh....

 

I might be remembering wrong but doesn't your wife have issues with sex?

[TrustedthenBusted]

I think this personality type really represents the difference between those that can successfully R and those who can't. There are a lot of people who find the idea of sex with someone outside of their relationship absolutely disgusting a couldn't disagree more with you.

 

I'll agree that having sex is perfectly natural, but affairs are so much more than having sex. The level of pathology it takes to lay in bed next to your child's parent, day after day, lie after lie, exposing them to potential illnesses they should no longer have to worry about is pretty shocking for most.

 

 

I agree that for the BS, the cheating is more than about the sex. In my case, the lies and deceit have had far greater and lasting impact on our relationship than the sex. Not that the sex wasn't an issue...it was... a huge one. But it hasn't stood the test of time like the deceit has.

 

As for exposing me to sickness and all the lying etc... I really don't think she thought about that at all until she was forced to on D-Day.

[dichotomy]

I might be remembering wrong but doesn't your wife have issues with sex?

 

 

Yes - after we got married it became an issue. As I said a one two punch that has hampered a full reconciliation. We have seen a sexual therapist for this issue. Her best sexual self was others, casually, and including other husbands. That complicates our reconciliation, and has changed my own views on sex and love as well.

[Lion Heart]

Lion Heart - I don't understand much of what have been posting recently. What's going on with you? Where are you with R and is that where you want to be? Do you have someone you can talk to about this?

 

Hi Drifter,

 

 

I actually wrote a response soon after your post but it hasn't uploaded (damned phone ha ha). I wanted to say thankyou for asking. :-)

 

 

I started drafting 2 threads tonight. Not sure when I will get them up. Life is busy being a Nana & mum to 4, working in an extremely challenging job and in "R" plus counselling tomorrow (2nd time for me), let alone dealing with A stuff on top, underneath and saturating the world - because SO many people have disclosed to me recently that they are BSs too. Sighhhh

 

 

I guess I'm in a physical R. I'm here and WH is here. Just weird really.I guess I'm "dealing" with the A but still "digesting" the resultant effect not knowing who my WH really is. That's quite revolting TBH. More on my thread.

 

 

I am seriously more thankful for everyone's patience with my rants than you will ever know. I'm sorry. I will try so much harder to respect the thread's objective. I guess I'm in that weird space where everything on earth is surreal. At least I can work well & hug my kids and know that's for real! If I could hug you guys I absolutely would.

 

 

Lion Heart (trying to be!!)

[Lion Heart]

Why would you assume only men believe that "sex [is] special because it is never shared with another'? It's the marriage vow, and it's the most intimate knowledge you have of another. It's the glue that holds things together when things are rough for other reasons. It's as much a shock as anything else to realize that intimacy was shared.

 

Maybe that IS one thing that all BSs share because in a PA it was sex that was the breaker of marriage vows. Infidelity being having sex outside of marriage. It was our partner's sex, with another person outside the marriage, that brought us to loveshack. Not all, some were participants in other ways than BSs.

 

 

I always said to my WH before his A, that sex was the ONE and ONLY THING that we should only share with each other. One thing.

That's the problem for all BSs, especially in R. D is another kettle of fish IMO.

[flowergirl14]

Maybe that IS one thing that all BSs share because in a PA it was sex that was the breaker of marriage vows. Infidelity being having sex outside of marriage. It was our partner's sex, with another person outside the marriage, that brought us to loveshack. Not all, some were participants in other ways than BSs.

 

 

I always said to my WH before his A, that sex was the ONE and ONLY THING that we should only share with each other. One thing.

That's the problem for all BSs, especially in R. D is another kettle of fish IMO.

 

Lion Heart,

From what I understand this is your second trip on the infidelity train? You divorced because of an A before? How is it different or the same this time around? How do you do it? Why are you trying R this time? No judgement just curiosity. Anyway, hope you are healing with or without him.

[Lion Heart]

Lion Heart,

From what I understand this is your second trip on the infidelity train? You divorced because of an A before? How is it different or the same this time around? How do you do it? Why are you trying R this time? No judgement just curiosity. Anyway, hope you are healing with or without him.

 

Hi Flowergirl,

Wow. I've done some more deep thinking since you posed those questions.

Absolutely is the 2nd time on the "infidelity train"! Let me off!! I escaped 2 LTRs that had red flags in those too regarding infidelty.

 

TBH I kicked my previous exWH out on the day he said he kissed another girl. I phoned her, spoke to her mother first then her. It was far more than kissing. I broke the lease the next day. DD 9 mths old. Got my entire family to help me pack and move in their cars. Welfare helped me get a really scabby, run down place. Anyhow it was heartbreaking and very difficult. We went to about 5 MCs over 2 yrs. WH kept blasting them!

I kept up IC in free groups. Got my job back, saved a deposit for my 1st house and bought it with my brother by the time DD was 2.5yrs. She was my major motivator. I didn't want her to marry a man like him. He's an alcoholic & gambling addict as well still. No signs of a "good" or decent, let alone stable, life there.

ExWH new girlfriend organised the D so she could marry him. Silly girl. Regrets it now! I predicted he would never get better and I was right, sadly for his next children. Basically advice from police made my mind up to NC in the end. No abuse, just his issues.

 

It's very different and yet has similar elements. This heart break was worse. 15 yrs together. Fought long and hard thru so much to keep my babies (against medical advice they'd all be disabled. NONE of them are!). Poverty, so many struggles yet.... I saw us coming out of the tunnel, WH didn't see that. WH held on to his past in this relationship. His A didn't go "the whole way" and I guess I give him a miniscule piece of credit for retracting, ending it and sh**ting himself that I was going to find out. The OW and WH have had a VERY public outing of their A. Both being sacked. Her getting police involved. They are consequences WH needed. I didn't instigate any of it. OW owning nothing, no income etc and being very mentally unstable, plus much older than us?!? WH knew it would never be a relationship he would go to if our marriage broke up. He described it as "flesh" and the excitement of it. We're still unpacking that!

 

This WH is willing to do whatever it takes for our marriage atm. I've done the 180. WH knows my exit plan and was gobsmacked. I've been able to protect my money. Re allocate bills etc. Basically I've split everything as though we are separating. Kids and I will move in July or Sept this year when my brother's house is ready. I want my 3 chn to remain at their current school, on a bus route to save childcare costs and for me to remain 3days pw working. Losing a father and me working FT would be too much so this us a workable option.

 

Back to "R": Transparency is in all things of WHs. Hopefully it goes without saying that any EA or A means I'm well and truly OVER done. Unless there is MASSIVE effort and there already IS a marked improvement in his behaviours. Even still WH knows D is the option that sits best with me after infidelity.

 

"How do I do it?" Not sure exactly what you mean. Try again in a new relationship? Try to R after infidelity? Have the energy? Or? Will respond if you can be more specific. :-)

 

I'm a person that tries to be true to my own morals, character and purpose. I don't expect people outside my family to uphold anything I believe in. It's apparent many things are lacking in society but I know the only thing within my control (most times) is me. I can influence my own chn. My work involves this type of thing too and I do well in my work. Pretty well with my chn. I expect everyone to take full responsibility for their actions but they rarely do. Not my problem really. I call a spade a spade. The people closest to me appreciate this and are the same with me. I'm not too proud to admit my mistakes, in fact I usually acknowledge them first and try to make amends immediately. Affairs aren't mistakes IMO, they're willful decisions on individual's behalves to behave with wanton carelessness, irrespective of hurt they do cause others. Purely selfish behaviours to gratify themselves. Craziness in action IMHO only.

 

I believe I'm healing. It's a difficult task to look after myself with lots of chn but I'm standing tough on that. I've communicated honestly with all my chn about the changes I've made. They're supportive.

 

Hope I've answered your questions. Only 10w 3d since D Day. Still working alot out. Dismantling a family takes time. You can explode it out of the water but whilst the waters are calm, I'm battening down the hatches, doing the C, loving my babies and appreciating I'm able bodied and able minded enough to move forward whatever the outcome.

 

Lion Heart.

[Mrs. John Adams]

LH...you sound like an amazingly, strong, intelligent woman. I wish you all the best and my thought are with you and your children.

 

WOW that blew me out of the water!

[Lion Heart]

LH...you sound like an amazingly, strong, intelligent woman. I wish you all the best and my thought are with you and your children.

 

WOW that blew me out of the water!

 

Thankyou Mrs Adams. Alot of people say that to me but I'm also a woman who has trusted untrustworthy people, been optimistic when there was only doom to face (pregnancies).

I am still just another person severely hurt by infidelity. Crushed even. The above description of me makes others think I can stay standing after anything they throw at me. Sometimes it slips off if I've got my wits about me. Sometimes I throw it right back. But when I'm caught off guard in a relationship I trusted I am knocked for a 6.

It's very sad that people should guard themselves against their partners, wives and husbands. I never plan on being in such a vulnerable position again. That's what makes me sad. Knowing all that now.

 

LH

[flowergirl14]

Thankyou Mrs Adams. Alot of people say that to me but I'm also a woman who has trusted untrustworthy people, been optimistic when there was only doom to face (pregnancies).

I am still just another person severely hurt by infidelity. Crushed even. The above description of me makes others think I can stay standing after anything they throw at me. Sometimes it slips off if I've got my wits about me. Sometimes I throw it right back. But when I'm caught off guard in a relationship I trusted I am knocked for a 6.

It's very sad that people should guard themselves against their partners, wives and husbands. I never plan on being in such a vulnerable position again. That's what makes me sad. Knowing all that now.

 

LH

 

I guess I'm saddened that you or anyone has to face Infidelity once let alone twice. I am new to it and am learning way more than I want. I think universally any bs doesn't want to be cheated on again by a ws or a future spouse. Thats one of my biggest fears. Your story goes to show that the grass isn't greener on the other side nor can we control our future or current partners. I mean people talk about "affair proofing" a marriage ( not sure I buy into this). You were savy enough to get out the first time. See the red flags in a few others and yet here you are again. Anyone could be in your shoes now or in the future. I hope that the future will be as you said in an earlier post.."a ball." We all deserve Peace of Mind and happiness!

[equitable]

I look forward to having time to read the whole thread.

 

I was in an IRL infidelity support group in which one woman had a good marriage a couple years out, despite years of multiple infidelities. I have no idea where she is today, 5 years or so later.

 

XH walked out on me a few years into our marriage, and spent a year living in his own apartment. He swore he wasn't cheating at the time. I later found out not only that he was going to sex and drug parties weekly (cough, where he swears he wasn't doing any of it), but that he didn't come back to me out of realization he was about to lose his family, as I'd thought, but because he slept with some girl, set up a nice date later and she wasn't that into him, so he came back to me.

 

Had I known I was Door #2, I would have divorced him at the time. Instead, I spent another 15 years trying to make the marriage work, and ended up divorcing him anyway.

 

Yes, in retrospect, I would have divorced him then, except for that pesky little issue that I'd be missing some kids I'm crazy about, had I done that.

[merrmeade]

I was in an IRL infidelity support group in which one woman had a good marriage a couple years out, despite years of multiple infidelities. I have no idea where she is today, 5 years or so later.

Wish I knew her. Can you remember why the marriage was successful after all that?

[Lion Heart]

I guess I'm saddened that you or anyone has to face Infidelity once let alone twice. I am new to it and am learning way more than I want. I think universally any bs doesn't want to be cheated on again by a ws or a future spouse. Thats one of my biggest fears. Your story goes to show that the grass isn't greener on the other side nor can we control our future or current partners. I mean people talk about "affair proofing" a marriage ( not sure I buy into this). You were savy enough to get out the first time. See the red flags in a few others and yet here you are again. Anyone could be in your shoes now or in the future. I hope that the future will be as you said in an earlier post.."a ball." We all deserve Peace of Mind and happiness!

 

Yes I agree it's very sad that anyone is betrayed with infidelity by a partner / spouse that they trusted and loved. There is nothing on earth that feels anything like it.

 

For me, at least, the feeling I had when my partners were unfaithful was and is exactly the same. No matter whether they were a spouse or partner in a LTR. In LTRs there was disappointment and sadness, certainly, BUT THE the sheer relief of finding out BEFORE a major commitment was made, gave me the exponential power and motivation to CUT and RUN real fast. There was never any want of mine to ever have those people back in my life in any way, shape or form. Though both tried to hold on to me and one even came back in a full on form 10y later when he well and truly understood what he wanted. GIGS for sure. Too late. My gain. I was out the minute I found out.

 

It was similar in my previous marraige. I "cut and run" physically by moving away immediately BUT as we had a baby daughter (and I still loved him) I attended MC for 2y. At many points there were red flags of other kinds like a varied array of other addictions. It was EVERYTHING he had wrong with him. So even though it may be difficult to understand for some people, YES THE GRASS WAS GREENER by cutting and running away from him and the others. Many many positive things happened in my life after I left. Things that NEVER would have, had I stayed in such dysfunctional LTRs & marriage.

 

It may SEEM that I'm still not off the "infidelity train" because of current WH exploits, but thanks to everyone here on LS, I actually am from a psychological perspective. The massive differences being many things: detachment, knowledge of all kinds about behaviours of cheaters (let's face it - same handbook), lock down of all sorts from my finances to property to my heart. I know that I've previously been a very loving and generous woman, self sacrificing even. NEVER EVER AGAIN.

 

I guess in conclusion I'm learning how to "cheat proof" mySELF.

I've completely stopped living in la-la land where I thought there were plenty of people like me: faithful and a person with a strong character. There simply aren't. Bottom line. Fact of life.

The ONLY thing left is for me to ALWAYS protect myself by protecting my heart and everything else. Is that sad? I guess my previous self would have said so. The old romantic. Too old for Fairy Tales but not happy endings! Now I know that knowledge is power. I'm more empowered by my knowledge.

 

I may regret not leaving present exWH immediately upon finding out about his affair but in almost every way I already have. Therefore I need to rename this period in our relationship because it's not "reconciliation" I want. I'm not going to pretend it's my H I want back, that H was a figment of my imagination.

Atm I'm just getting real about the reality of everything. Spending alot of time re-assessing everything. Observing. Planning.

If we could build a new relationship (can't call it a marriage anymore because that's gone, he f***ed that) well then I guess I'll call it as I see it.

I've changed my descriptors entirely. He's not my H anymore but the "father of my children". I don't call him my H at all in public only here for brevity.

 

In fact I question my own sanity even allowing him to live here. Infidelity is a deal breaker but can a new "safer" deal be brokered? Certainly for me it already has. I've always been a positive person so I'll give it maximum 5y to go.

 

So I haven't regretted leaving my previous unfaithful partners. I won't regret this ending either. I'll be grateful it ended when it does.

 

LH

[merrmeade]

Yes I agree it's very sad that anyone is betrayed with infidelity by a partner / spouse that they trusted and loved. There is nothing on earth that feels anything like it.

 

For me, at least, the feeling I had when my partners were unfaithful was and is exactly the same. No matter whether they were a spouse or partner in a LTR. In LTRs there was disappointment and sadness, certainly, BUT THE the sheer relief of finding out BEFORE a major commitment was made, gave me the exponential power and motivation to CUT and RUN real fast. There was never any want of mine to ever have those people back in my life in any way, shape or form. Though both tried to hold on to me and one even came back in a full on form 10y later when he well and truly understood what he wanted. GIGS for sure. Too late. My gain. I was out the minute I found out.

 

It was similar in my previous marraige. I "cut and run" physically by moving away immediately BUT as we had a baby daughter (and I still loved him) I attended MC for 2y. At many points there were red flags of other kinds like a varied array of other addictions. It was EVERYTHING he had wrong with him. So even though it may be difficult to understand for some people, YES THE GRASS WAS GREENER by cutting and running away from him and the others. Many many positive things happened in my life after I left. Things that NEVER would have, had I stayed in such dysfunctional LTRs & marriage.

 

It may SEEM that I'm still not off the "infidelity train" because of current WH exploits, but thanks to everyone here on LS, I actually am from a psychological perspective. The massive differences being many things: detachment, knowledge of all kinds about behaviours of cheaters (let's face it - same handbook), lock down of all sorts from my finances to property to my heart. I know that I've previously been a very loving and generous woman, self sacrificing even. NEVER EVER AGAIN.

 

I guess in conclusion I'm learning how to "cheat proof" mySELF.

I've completely stopped living in la-la land where I thought there were plenty of people like me: faithful and a person with a strong character. There simply aren't. Bottom line. Fact of life.

The ONLY thing left is for me to ALWAYS protect myself by protecting my heart and everything else. Is that sad? I guess my previous self would have said so. The old romantic. Too old for Fairy Tales but not happy endings! Now I know that knowledge is power. I'm more empowered by my knowledge.

 

I may regret not leaving present exWH immediately upon finding out about his affair but in almost every way I already have. Therefore I need to rename this period in our relationship because it's not "reconciliation" I want. I'm not going to pretend it's my H I want back, that H was a figment of my imagination.

Atm I'm just getting real about the reality of everything. Spending alot of time re-assessing everything. Observing. Planning.

If we could build a new relationship (can't call it a marriage anymore because that's gone, he f***ed that) well then I guess I'll call it as I see it.

I've changed my descriptors entirely. He's not my H anymore but the "father of my children". I don't call him my H at all in public only here for brevity.

 

In fact I question my own sanity even allowing him to live here. Infidelity is a deal breaker but can a new "safer" deal be brokered? Certainly for me it already has. I've always been a positive person so I'll give it maximum 5y to go.

 

So I haven't regretted leaving my previous unfaithful partners. I won't regret this ending either. I'll be grateful it ended when it does.

 

LH

So, just to confirm I'm understanding you, LH, this means you're playing it out this way for the "sake of your children" and you'll "see" how you feel and decide what you want to do in 5 yrs? It sounds like you're expecting it to end, i.e., "I'll be grateful it ended when it does," right?

 

I find it difficult to maintain the stance of "detachment." I've sort of waffled back and forth between three positions:

(1) what you describe, i.e., protecting myself from hurt or expectation

(2) wanting to improve the marriage

(3) falling back to despair, anger and shock at the wrongs and entitlement

 

The first one means never being vulnerable, literally giving up on a relationship of trust and sharing, and the second one is the opposite. The third one leaves the marriage in stasis but it is impossible to control those 'fallbacks.'

 

I don't think I can have #2 if #3 is still plaguing me. The thing about #3 is I really can't do it without some confirmation and involvement from H as the WS. He did it. I need his acknowledgement.* I've tried the 180 and it just comes back full circle to #1, 2 and 3 over and over....

 

*which we do on a regular basis - volatile, cathartic sessions...

[ladydesigner]

Yes I agree it's very sad that anyone is betrayed with infidelity by a partner / spouse that they trusted and loved. There is nothing on earth that feels anything like it.

 

For me, at least, the feeling I had when my partners were unfaithful was and is exactly the same. No matter whether they were a spouse or partner in a LTR. In LTRs there was disappointment and sadness, certainly, BUT THE the sheer relief of finding out BEFORE a major commitment was made, gave me the exponential power and motivation to CUT and RUN real fast. There was never any want of mine to ever have those people back in my life in any way, shape or form. Though both tried to hold on to me and one even came back in a full on form 10y later when he well and truly understood what he wanted. GIGS for sure. Too late. My gain. I was out the minute I found out.

 

It was similar in my previous marraige. I "cut and run" physically by moving away immediately BUT as we had a baby daughter (and I still loved him) I attended MC for 2y. At many points there were red flags of other kinds like a varied array of other addictions. It was EVERYTHING he had wrong with him. So even though it may be difficult to understand for some people, YES THE GRASS WAS GREENER by cutting and running away from him and the others. Many many positive things happened in my life after I left. Things that NEVER would have, had I stayed in such dysfunctional LTRs & marriage.

 

It may SEEM that I'm still not off the "infidelity train" because of current WH exploits, but thanks to everyone here on LS, I actually am from a psychological perspective. The massive differences being many things: detachment, knowledge of all kinds about behaviours of cheaters (let's face it - same handbook), lock down of all sorts from my finances to property to my heart. I know that I've previously been a very loving and generous woman, self sacrificing even. NEVER EVER AGAIN.

 

I guess in conclusion I'm learning how to "cheat proof" mySELF.

I've completely stopped living in la-la land where I thought there were plenty of people like me: faithful and a person with a strong character. There simply aren't. Bottom line. Fact of life.

The ONLY thing left is for me to ALWAYS protect myself by protecting my heart and everything else. Is that sad? I guess my previous self would have said so. The old romantic. Too old for Fairy Tales but not happy endings! Now I know that knowledge is power. I'm more empowered by my knowledge.

 

I may regret not leaving present exWH immediately upon finding out about his affair but in almost every way I already have. Therefore I need to rename this period in our relationship because it's not "reconciliation" I want. I'm not going to pretend it's my H I want back, that H was a figment of my imagination.

Atm I'm just getting real about the reality of everything. Spending alot of time re-assessing everything. Observing. Planning.

If we could build a new relationship (can't call it a marriage anymore because that's gone, he f***ed that) well then I guess I'll call it as I see it.

I've changed my descriptors entirely. He's not my H anymore but the "father of my children". I don't call him my H at all in public only here for brevity.

 

In fact I question my own sanity even allowing him to live here. Infidelity is a deal breaker but can a new "safer" deal be brokered? Certainly for me it already has. I've always been a positive person so I'll give it maximum 5y to go.

 

So I haven't regretted leaving my previous unfaithful partners. I won't regret this ending either. I'll be grateful it ended when it does.

 

LH

 

Wow I feel much like you Lion Heart!

[Confusion_Reigns]

There's a reason why I did not divorce him then, 10 years ago, and that was because...I loved him, I love my children, & I was willing to stay & see how things worked for us. I believe that family important & that my children deserve a two-parent home. I also thought that maybe things really could get better...& when it's all said & done I'm not a quitter.

 

Sometimes I do wish I'd have left him then...but that's only for me. It would have been all about the affair & not our incompatibility with one another.

[BlackHat]

My work environment puts me in contact with many cheaters, although most of them do it only a couple of times.

 

The reason behind is simple: Executives far from home. 'Nuff said

 

Still, sometimes they do get caught, and almost always they get forgiven. And then I learn about what happens to the ones who don't divorce because I guess I am the type of guy who doesn't mind to provide a friendly shoulder to cry on when the pressure at home is too much.

 

It is bad. 100% of the times the wife is going to get her pound of flesh. The first years they are constantly reminded of what they did, as in:

 

- "Honey, I am going to change the tyres of the car"

- "Did she have new tyres in her car? Did she have a nice car? Did you like to do it in her car? Did you? DID YOU?"

 

And that goes literally for years.

 

As an analyst at heart, I also notice that this abuse stops when they really hurt the guy. I mean, if they see the guy getting so beaten up that he is but a shadow of his former self, they stop. As a matter of fact, I managed to prove my theory a couple of years back, asking one of the guys in the second year of bashing to pretend to be beaten to a pulp 24/7...and it worked. She calmed down the minute he began answering everything with monosyllables and stop watching and reading his favorite things.

 

But there is a flip side to that coin. In 100% of the cases that I have known the guy cheats again, but only after the bashing begins getting out of control.

 

Let me repeat again. Bashing = More cheating. They don't get caught because they get better. They understand what they did wrong, that is, how careless they were when they cheated, and improve themselves, that is, they cheat better.

 

I remember one time when the wife saw fit to punish the guy forbidding him to watch sports on the TV. I kid you not. That was the straw that broke the camel's back. He got himself a lover who he keep for years until she began demanding him to leave the wife, which he didn't. He changed jobs so I don't know how that story ended.

 

What I have seen is that the marriage is never recovered. They do act like lovebirds in public, but there is lots of hatred and by the time the wife (or husband I guess) has his pound of flesh, there is nothing but bones left.

 

I am a cheater, so I am in no position to give advice. But for what I have seen, and I have seen lots, I would recommend cheated spouses to do the following:

 

You have to choices, divorce of forgiveness. If you go the path of the divorce, more power to you. But if you are going to forgive, forgive without conditions. If you want to get even go f*** another guy telling him about it beforehand. Or beat him up during 1h. Or whatever floats your boat. But after you are done BE DONE.

 

Otherwise you will make your life miserable in your quest to make his.

[purplesorrow]

My work environment puts me in contact with many cheaters, although most of them do it only a couple of times.

 

The reason behind is simple: Executives far from home. 'Nuff said

 

Still, sometimes they do get caught, and almost always they get forgiven. And then I learn about what happens to the ones who don't divorce because I guess I am the type of guy who doesn't mind to provide a friendly shoulder to cry on when the pressure at home is too much.

 

It is bad. 100% of the times the wife is going to get her pound of flesh. The first years they are constantly reminded of what they did, as in:

 

- "Honey, I am going to change the tyres of the car"

- "Did she have new tyres in her car? Did she have a nice car? Did you like to do it in her car? Did you? DID YOU?"

 

And that goes literally for years.

 

As an analyst at heart, I also notice that this abuse stops when they really hurt the guy. I mean, if they see the guy getting so beaten up that he is but a shadow of his former self, they stop. As a matter of fact, I managed to prove my theory a couple of years back, asking one of the guys in the second year of bashing to pretend to be beaten to a pulp 24/7...and it worked. She calmed down the minute he began answering everything with monosyllables and stop watching and reading his favorite things.

 

But there is a flip side to that coin. In 100% of the cases that I have known the guy cheats again, but only after the bashing begins getting out of control.

 

Let me repeat again. Bashing = More cheating. They don't get caught because they get better. They understand what they did wrong, that is, how careless they were when they cheated, and improve themselves, that is, they cheat better.

 

I remember one time when the wife saw fit to punish the guy forbidding him to watch sports on the TV. I kid you not. That was the straw that broke the camel's back. He got himself a lover who he keep for years until she began demanding him to leave the wife, which he didn't. He changed jobs so I don't know how that story ended.

 

What I have seen is that the marriage is never recovered. They do act like lovebirds in public, but there is lots of hatred and by the time the wife (or husband I guess) has his pound of flesh, there is nothing but bones left.

 

I am a cheater, so I am in no position to give advice. But for what I have seen, and I have seen lots, I would recommend cheated spouses to do the following:

 

You have to choices, divorce of forgiveness. If you go the path of the divorce, more power to you. But if you are going to forgive, forgive without conditions. If you want to get even go f*** another guy telling him about it beforehand. Or beat him up during 1h. Or whatever floats your boat. But after you are done BE DONE.

 

Otherwise you will make your life miserable in your quest to make his.

 

You have only described staying. You didn't describe reconciliation. Some people forgive divorce or not. It really isn't one or the other.

[Lion Heart]

So, just to confirm I'm understanding you, LH, this means you're playing it out this way for the "sake of your children" and you'll "see" how you feel and decide what you want to do in 5 yrs? It sounds like you're expecting it to end, i.e., "I'll be grateful it ended when it does," right?

 

I find it difficult to maintain the stance of "detachment." I've sort of waffled back and forth between three positions:

(1) what you describe, i.e., protecting myself from hurt or expectation

(2) wanting to improve the marriage

(3) falling back to despair, anger and shock at the wrongs and entitlement

 

The first one means never being vulnerable, literally giving up on a relationship of trust and sharing, and the second one is the opposite. The third one leaves the marriage in stasis but it is impossible to control those 'fallbacks.'

 

I don't think I can have #2 if #3 is still plaguing me. The thing about #3 is I really can't do it without some confirmation and involvement from H as the WS. He did it. I need his acknowledgement.* I've tried the 180 and it just comes back full circle to #1, 2 and 3 over and over....

 

*which we do on a regular basis - volatile, cathartic sessions...

 

 

I'm finding it amazing how some of us BSs who decide to stay feel the need to analyze SO MUCH and we really do need to pick it apart to the nth degree for so many reasons. It's imperative for me.

 

When I've left cheaters before, I just boxed them up in my mind and shipped out of cheater land. No more analyzing needed for me.

 

The situation for me atm is ofcourse multi-layered. I know for a fact that if WS was not willing to get counselling to sort his issues out, then I'd be out. Actually he would be out. I've never threatened this. I wouldn't because that step would be his choice. He sought and continues to seek counselling because he KNOWS he needs to for himself, his children (together or separated) and for our relationship. In that order.

 

I guess we both know that we do love each other. We also know that this period in our relationship is the hardest thing we've chosen to do so far.

 

I know that if there were no children involved then I would have ended it on D Day. Love or no love. I believe WS would have left at some point too.

 

So to be absolutely honest I think we are staying for the children BUT if there was no love and no hope at all but just a house of rage and anger etc then we'd both call it quits. Do 50/50 which the children don't want. But there it is. We've already written out the boundaries for that in case. We looked at it and both cried.

 

We love EACH OTHER enough to stay atm.

We both want to have a contented life.

There is self-sacrifice in parenting BUT we both won't completely sacrifice ourselves for them.

 

Sounds like lots of grey areas but that's it for now.

 

Lion Heart.