Mrs. John Adams Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 I do think we sometimes need to be mindful when we make statements like all..never...etc. It is less likely to cause controversy if we say some, sometimes, etc. then we are less likely to offend those who might disagree. Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 I do think we sometimes need to be mindful when we make statements like all..never...etc. It is less likely to cause controversy if we say some, sometimes, etc. then we are less likely to offend those who might disagree. This only works if someone's basic goal is NOT to offend, stir people up, or generally be an ass. I taught school a lot of years. It can get ugly on the kindergarten playground sometimes when a child gets their ball stolen lol 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Mrs. John Adams Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Well..we all know some people like to argue...and some like to incite...and some like to condemn....and some like to feel superior. I am here to talk...I am not on a mission..nor do I wish to hurt others. Life is hard...and there is way too much negativity. I am only here a short time in the scheme of things...I hope I leave this place a better place than when I arrived.... I will leave it to others who choose differently than I do. I will do my best to be kind...but I will post a warning...I too have a limit....I have a line...and it ain't pretty when you cross it 2 Link to post Share on other sites
drifter777 Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Never worth it for you? Or everyone? Do you think or second child wasn't worth it? Or vacations and daily life full of love and happiness? What isn't worth it for you may not be felt by other people. I share his opinion with one exception: if a man truly believes "sex is only sex" then there is a chance to reconcile with his WW. Most men view sex with their wife to be special because it is never shared with another. Those men will always mourn a loss that cannot be recovered. Their marriage is tainted and sex will never be special again. Reconciliation is a waste of time and emotional energy for them. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
merrmeade Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 I share his opinion with one exception: if a man truly believes "sex is only sex" then there is a chance to reconcile with his WW. Most men view sex with their wife to be special because it is never shared with another. Those men will always mourn a loss that cannot be recovered. Their marriage is tainted and sex will never be special again. Reconciliation is a waste of time and emotional energy for them.Why would you assume only men believe that "sex [is] special because it is never shared with another'? It's the marriage vow, and it's the most intimate knowledge you have of another. It's the glue that holds things together when things are rough for other reasons. It's as much a shock as anything else to realize that intimacy was shared. 7 Link to post Share on other sites
drifter777 Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Why would you assume only men believe that "sex [is] special because it is never shared with another'? It's the marriage vow, and it's the most intimate knowledge you have of another. It's the glue that holds things together when things are rough for other reasons. It's as much a shock as anything else to realize that intimacy was shared.I make no such assumption. I am a BH and don't pretend to understand how a BW feels and deals with cheating. I do know that all of us BS's have much in common but also - in general - men and women cope with infidelity differently. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
road Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Why would you assume only men believe that "sex [is] special because it is never shared with another'? It's the marriage vow, and it's the most intimate knowledge you have of another. It's the glue that holds things together when things are rough for other reasons. It's as much a shock as anything else to realize that intimacy was shared. I make no such assumption. I am a BH and don't pretend to understand how a BW feels and deals with cheating. I do know that all of us BS's have much in common but also - in general - men and women cope with infidelity differently. Men do not are hurt less by a wife saying she loves OM then by her letting the OM do her. Wives are the opposite. For men place more importance on action. Saying something holds much less weight then doing something. Women place more emphasis on the intent of words. This is a generalization that fits because this is a basic difference between men and women. Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Men do not are hurt less by a wife saying she loves OM then by her letting the OM do her. Wives are the opposite. For men place more importance on action. Saying something holds much less weight then doing something. Women place more emphasis on the intent of words. This is a generalization that fits because this is a basic difference between men and women. This is a generalization that frequently fits because a lot of people are like this. Not all. No matter what guru says so. Or what cult. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Selfish Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 I make no such assumption. I am a BH and don't pretend to understand how a BW feels and deals with cheating. I do know that all of us BS's have much in common but also - in general - men and women cope with infidelity differently. If you cares at all to understand human beings are human beings regardless of the genitals you seperate them by you would know that many people view sex as special. And that many people actually get past that part and reclaim that special thing because they realize and understand science and biology and that the memory of sex fades. And that sex isn't always special. Sometimes it sucks. But the special part can come back. Some people don't stubbornly hold onto things for years. Most people who have been hear as long as you who care about learning have read enough to realize it isnt just mean bothered by sex. And yet you continue to "speak only for men" and as a result come accross sexist and unwilling to learn. Men and women have differences. Men and men have differences. Women and women have differences. There is no huge dividing wall except for the ones we create. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Seachan Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 And that many people actually get past that part and reclaim that special thing because they realize and understand science and biology and that the memory of sex fades. And that sex isn't always special. Sometimes it sucks. But the special part can come back. Some people don't stubbornly hold onto things for years. Ah, so this is why adultery sux. Because some "people stubbornly hold onto things." Those darned BS's refusing to let go of the sex. Not letting things become special again with their long-suffering WS's. For those BS's who truly loved their WS, the betrayal can change them on a foundational level. The damage can be permanent and unalterable. The triggers come randomly and are not something the BS's can control. It can be a form of post-traumatic stress. My heart goes out to those BS who try to stay out of love for their WS. And for the WS's who also try to stay and must accept that their actions have forever changed their BS. 6 Link to post Share on other sites
Zenstudent Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 If you cares at all to understand human beings are human beings regardless of the genitals you seperate them by you would know that many people view sex as special. And that many people actually get past that part and reclaim that special thing because they realize and understand science and biology and that the memory of sex fades. And that sex isn't always special. Sometimes it sucks. But the special part can come back. Some people don't stubbornly hold onto things for years. Most people who have been hear as long as you who care about learning have read enough to realize it isnt just mean bothered by sex. And yet you continue to "speak only for men" and as a result come accross sexist and unwilling to learn. Men and women have differences. Men and men have differences. Women and women have differences. There is no huge dividing wall except for the ones we create. Well, I have to agree with this. I also realized that sex isn't special - it hasn't been for me since D-day either. More often than not, it sucks - if you can't adjust your expectations, that is. It was nothing but a romantic fantasy we had before - hard to let it go though. The angry outbursts you see, I think it's because few people like want to accept, that they are not that special, and maybe never was. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Confused48 Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Well, I have to agree with this. I also realized that sex isn't special - it hasn't been for me since D-day either. More often than not, it sucks - if you can't adjust your expectations, that is. It was nothing but a romantic fantasy we had before - hard to let it go though. The angry outbursts you see, I think it's because few people like want to accept, that they are not that special, and maybe never was. I get this. On some level the sex was just that. It could be almost forgotten. Except that it was the proof of much else. The tip of the iceberg. The one thing that makes it impossible to not see the deep betrayal. So we get angry about the sex but it is not just that. It is just what triggers us into anger. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
No Limit Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Do you think or second child wasn't worth it? Or vacations and daily life full of love and happiness? All these are things a new partner can provide as well. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
violet1 Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I share his opinion with one exception: if a man truly believes "sex is only sex" then there is a chance to reconcile with his WW. Most men view sex with their wife to be special because it is never shared with another. Those men will always mourn a loss that cannot be recovered. Their marriage is tainted and sex will never be special again. Reconciliation is a waste of time and emotional energy for them. My H was bothered by the lies, the secrets and the emotional aspect. The sex part bothered him, but not as much as the other components. What makes sex special is the mutual love that's shared. Without love sex is just two people getting their rocks off IMO. Our sex is still special after the D Day because our M has become stronger. I do understand what you are saying though. Does your wife know that you no longer believe that sex with her is special? If my H felt the way you do I would want to know so I could put an end to the misery once and for all. I would not want to live the rest of my life with past thrown in my face. It's fine if people can't get passed an affair. If you can't don't agree to reconcile. Or end the relationship as soon as you realize that it's something you can't handle. Link to post Share on other sites
Selfish Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 All these are things a new partner can provide as well. Or you could be cheated on by a new person to. For a parent to look back and say it was not worth it they would have to say any child born after is not worth it. Children are individuals and not interchangeable. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Or you could be cheated on by a new person to. For a parent to look back and say it was not worth it they would have to say any child born after is not worth it. Children are individuals and not interchangeable. I'm not sure this is so cut and dried. I would not change a thing with regard to my kids, but honestly, at times I wish i had never married my ex. I know logistically that doesn't work, but emotionally ti is true. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
violet1 Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 All these are things a new partner can provide as well. I completely agree with. However, there is just as much of a risk with a new partner as there is with staying with a truly remorseful spouse. How many people have posted that they have been cheated on in multiple relationships? Life is a risk. You either take the risks or you hide in a shell living a very lonely life. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Selfish Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I'm not sure this is so cut and dried. I would not change a thing with regard to my kids, but honestly, at times I wish i had never married my ex. I know logistically that doesn't work, but emotionally ti is true. Which means given a time machine you could not undo your kids because you know them. The obly way would be if you could somehow never no they exsisted in this alternate ending. You can wish the past had been different. But when it comes to kids almost everyone would choose the kids they have over the sorrow that brought them there. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Which means given a time machine you could not undo your kids because you know them. The obly way would be if you could somehow never no they exsisted in this alternate ending. You can wish the past had been different. But when it comes to kids almost everyone would choose the kids they have over the sorrow that brought them there. I understand that. I'm just saying you can't say to a hurting BS, "You can't possibly regret your marriage! What about the baby you had after the affair?" Because pain is not logical. They CAN in fact love that child AND wish they had not gone through the pain. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Zenstudent Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I wouldn't trade my kids for anything in the world, even though I'm not certain that I'm the biological father to both of them. The hypothetical question whether I would have married my wife had I known about the future infidelity in advance, is much more tricky - if not, I wouldn't have had my kids either. So I try not to think about that, it makes my head spin. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Selfish Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I understand that. I'm just saying you can't say to a hurting BS, "You can't possibly regret your marriage! What about the baby you had after the affair?" Because pain is not logical. They CAN in fact love that child AND wish they had not gone through the pain. I actually said that in the wishing the past had been different. My comment was directed at no limit and her glib statement implying children or interchangeable. Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I actually said that in the wishing the past had been different. My comment was directed at no limit and her glib statement implying children or interchangeable. No one could interchange with my kids. They are the best kids in the universe And that is my objective opinion 2 Link to post Share on other sites
merrmeade Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Most men view sex with their wife to be special because it is never shared with another. Those men will always mourn a loss that cannot be recovered. Their marriage is tainted and sex will never be special again. Reconciliation is a waste of time and emotional energy for them. --------------------------- I make no such assumption. I am a BH and don't pretend to understand how a BW feels and deals with cheating. I do know that all of us BS's have much in common but also - in general - men and women cope with infidelity differently.This put me in mind of something I stayed up late, writing on the night of our anniversary, two months after D-day, 2-1/2 years ago. I titled it "The Vow" and showed it to my husband the next day. The Vow The vow is more than a promise or an idea. It was the mainstay of our marriage, the glue that made oneness where we could not. In many ways, we were different, apart even, but as long as we had the vow, dissonance and disparate elements were silenced, contained by a bond which defined and sustained us. Nor do I think of “vow” as a linguistic concept subsumed by the word “marriage” or even “monogamy.” It certainly did not guarantee us harmony. But, nurtured by time and experience, it created an exclusive world that was ours alone – a physical and spiritual intimacy of attitudes, touch and smell; of movement, taste and looks learned and answered; of pleasures, habits and disappointments accepted and absorbed. It was our innermost knowledge of each other and created the outermost protection to our union. By definition, our vow could not be shared and existed solely between us, the two who created it, alone. As long as our vow was secure, our marriage survived, and our lives together as family was impenetrable. The vow did not need to be proven, and our trust of each other was not in question. ____________________________ Now, all of that is in upheaval and our marriage, mortally wounded. You have broken the vow. You took it out of that exclusive world forever. You shared all your thoughts and feelings about everything all the time every day – in emails, in text messages, in phone calls, in person – with someone else. You shared the marriage bed – my bed – with a woman you were not married to. You touched someone else the way you touch me. And now, I cannot be intimate with you without thinking about that, that what you are doing to me, you did to her. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Clay Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I completely agree with. However, there is just as much of a risk with a new partner as there is with staying with a truly remorseful spouse. How many people have posted that they have been cheated on in multiple relationships? Life is a risk. You either take the risks or you hide in a shell living a very lonely life. I don't personally think the level of risk is the same. Remorse is really nice but it doesn't take away the pain in the end. I think the person has a greater risk of being cheated on by there SO even if the SO is remorseful. If you look in the OM/OW many of them say they love there SO and do not want to loose what they have. They are willing to lie until they die so to speak. So being remorseful doesn't really mean all that much in my eyes. Sure it helps you feel better but as already seen plenty of them still continue to cheat. So the chance of being cheated on with a new partner is less than the existing partner. I mean all this with no disrespect. Everyone has to choose there own path in life. If you and your SO are working things out then great for you. Clay 1 Link to post Share on other sites
merrmeade Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I recently reread some old love letters my husband had written me in the early years of our marriage. Considering these and 'the vow' above, I'm amazed at our simple belief in the power of love and saddened we lost the ability to surrender wholly. I also miss the woman who wrote it. The sense of wholeness and unquestioning vulnerability, all gone. Of course, there's no mourning the inevitable humiliation from such ignorance, not realizing he'd long ago exchanged the overrated joys of exclusivity for the cheap thrills of the chase. Finally, the truth began to trickle out, and the damaged serial cheater emerged. At least, since 'the vow' was a fantasy never shared, you could say it was never sullied. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
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