Does the BS wish they had divorced their WS 5,10, 20 years later?

[drifter777]

Does your wife know how you feel? Does she know that you regret staying with her? If not, I think you should tell her.

She knows. I think a lot of WW's know.

[scatterd]

Yes I do I forgave my Husband 6 years ago just for him to dump me for who knows what.

[Zenstudent]

I'm almost 4 years out. Sometimes I wish I had divorced her back then, sometimes I'm OK with staying. Sometimes I think we're together just for the kids, and sometimes I imagine she loves me. To cope with someone crapping all over you like that... well i'ts just a tall order. Accepting something less than what you had, or should I say the fantasy I lived before the betrayal, is sometimes difficult to overcome.

 

I know I want to spend my life with someone, but could I do better with another woman than my wife? I don't know, maybe I could, but then again, cheating seems to the new normal, so I may end up cheated on again.

 

I reserve the right mo change my mind at any time, and I certainly don't think that I owe her anything.

 

Other than that, we get along well, and I have learned the gift of mindfullness and letting go.

[dichotomy]

I'm almost 4 years out. Sometimes I wish I had divorced her back then, sometimes I'm OK with staying. Sometimes I think we're together just for the kids, and sometimes I imagine she loves me. To cope with someone crapping all over you like that... well i'ts just a tall order. Accepting something less than what you had, or should I say the fantasy I lived before the betrayal, is sometimes difficult to overcome.

 

I know I want to spend my life with someone, but could I do better with another woman than my wife? I don't know, maybe I could, but then again, cheating seems to the new normal, so I may end up cheated on again.

 

I reserve the right mo change my mind at any time, and I certainly don't think that I owe her anything.

 

Other than that, we get along well, and I have learned the gift of mindfullness and letting go.

 

 

Another clean/honest/real post Zenstudent. I am exploring mindfullness recently.

[Bittersweetie]

One thing my H said to me in the time after d-day was that before my A, and d-day, he would've never considered divorce. His parents divorced and he felt that if he did that, it would be a failure.

 

Then we had a d-day, and divorce was a legitimate option for him. He said he realized that divorce wasn't failure. If that was the best choice for him, he'd do it. He would be okay, and I would be okay. The world would not end.

 

We are still together but, like zenstudent, he reserves the right to change his mind about our marriage at any time. Just like I do, as well. Currently we each have chosen to be with the other, and it is working out for us.

 

And thank you everyone for a thoughtful thread.

[TrustedthenBusted]

5 years out.

 

Glad I stayed to work it out. Family is intact, life plan is moving forward, communication is much better.

 

Had I found about about her issues right away, I would have annulled and moved on. But I found out 8 years and two children later. Such is life. Gotta react to what you are dealt.

 

The trick to R is not to view every single selfish act as a mini-affair, or affair related thing.

 

She leaves me a sink of dirty dishes or leaves all the lights on upstairs?...it's not because she's a selfish lying cheating whore. It's because she's a human being, and we are all a little selfish sometimes.

 

I have my bad days where I think about divorce....but so does every married person I've ever met, with more than half of them deciding to split.

 

It also boils down to what "For Better of for Worse" means to you.

 

To me, "Worse" means an affair, and the struggle to try to understand it and come to grips with it.

 

For her, "Worse" obviously means having her biggest character flaw and worst decision exposed and having to tolerate years of anger, disappointment and distance while reestablishing trust, and love.

 

Neither of us, ( regardless of fault ) got what we thought we signed up for, and now have to make a choice about how to deal with it.

 

I chose to stay, improve myself, and serve as an example to my children.

 

She chose to stay, improve herself, and move forward despite an ever-present scale that will forever be tipped against her.

 

Are we 100% happy? Hell no! We've got pre-teen sons, a dog, two lizards, a mortgage, two very difficult jobs, in-laws, neighbors who got a friggen stupid Pit Bull recently, high cell phone bills, and only 3 weeks of PTO each per year.

 

We've got a life. And that's never 100% happy. But we've decided that we want to keep living that life together for better or worse despite some really bad choices on both of our parts.

 

Regrets? Who the hell has time for those.

[TrustedthenBusted]

One thing my H said to me in the time after d-day was that before my A, and d-day, he would've never considered divorce. His parents divorced and he felt that if he did that, it would be a failure.

 

Then we had a d-day, and divorce was a legitimate option for him. He said he realized that divorce wasn't failure. If that was the best choice for him, he'd do it. He would be okay, and I would be okay. The world would not end.

 

We are still together but, like zenstudent, he reserves the right to change his mind about our marriage at any time. Just like I do, as well. Currently we each have chosen to be with the other, and it is working out for us.

 

And thank you everyone for a thoughtful thread.

 

Your husband and I are very similar this way. I would have gone through FIRE to keep my marriage together. In fact, whenever I thought about all of the difficult scenarios we might face as a couple, I somehow overlooked the mostly likely iceberg in the process. I was off thinking about how I'd stay if she were horribly burned in a house fire, or got some life threatening illness or gained 400 pounds, or developed a crack habit and all of these other silly and unlikely scenarios. But the real enemy was right there in my face and I didn't know it.

 

An affair was simply unfathomable. And to her credit, she always made me feel that way.

 

And then Boom. Reality. And with two toddlers in tow. Divorce was not only an option, it seemed like the only sensible one on the table. It solved so many problems. Revenge. Retribution. Public Support. Relief. Reprieve. Freedom. All of it.

 

Very tempting.

[drifter777]

5 years out.

 

Glad I stayed to work it out. Family is intact, life plan is moving forward, communication is much better.

 

Had I found about about her issues right away, I would have annulled and moved on. But I found out 8 years and two children later. Such is life. Gotta react to what you are dealt.

 

The trick to R is not to view every single selfish act as a mini-affair, or affair related thing.

 

She leaves me a sink of dirty dishes or leaves all the lights on upstairs?...it's not because she's a selfish lying cheating whore. It's because she's a human being, and we are all a little selfish sometimes.

 

I have my bad days where I think about divorce....but so does every married person I've ever met, with more than half of them deciding to split.

 

It also boils down to what "For Better of for Worse" means to you.

 

To me, "Worse" means an affair, and the struggle to try to understand it and come to grips with it.

 

For her, "Worse" obviously means having her biggest character flaw and worst decision exposed and having to tolerate years of anger, disappointment and distance while reestablishing trust, and love.

 

Neither of us, ( regardless of fault ) got what we thought we signed up for, and now have to make a choice about how to deal with it.

 

I chose to stay, improve myself, and serve as an example to my children.

 

She chose to stay, improve herself, and move forward despite an ever-present scale that will forever be tipped against her.

 

Are we 100% happy? Hell no! We've got pre-teen sons, a dog, two lizards, a mortgage, two very difficult jobs, in-laws, neighbors who got a friggen stupid Pit Bull recently, high cell phone bills, and only 3 weeks of PTO each per year.

 

We've got a life. And that's never 100% happy. But we've decided that we want to keep living that life together for better or worse despite some really bad choices on both of our parts.

 

Regrets? Who the hell has time for those.

Your trick for R is working for you and that's great. I read it and I think "Really? This is your trick?" - but whatever works for you.

 

Another thing that stands out is that you wouldn't be with her if you would have busted back when it happened. By the time you found out you were really married - 2 kids and all. Hard to leave when you have kids if you are a good man. It feels like you are abandoning them because you are hurting and, damn it, you're tough enough to take it and will do anything for your kids. I know how that works.

 

I will always be concerned that you are throwing away a huge part of yourself and your life. You know, intellectually, that you can be a great father to your kids without living with their mother. But emotionally you don't believe it. You say you would give your life for your kids so even if you are throwing your life away - so be it. This is what I believed for years and years. As I've said, I finally came to the conclusion I had to divorce her when our youngest finally left our home. But in the intervening time we had to step up and take custody of our grandson. If I left now my daughter would walk into court and ask the judge to toss out her ruling because the boy is no longer in the same situation as when the ruling was made. At a minimum the judge would heavily modify the schedule to give her - an addict - much more access to the boy then she has today. The judge could even do a 180 and take custody away from us and give it to our daughter. And the crusher is that I believe our grandson is better off with us living together. He doesn't think it strange that we don't sleep together and is very secure & happy with both of us being her for him.

 

I accept that my life will not change much for at least the next 10 years. And by then I probably will just accept that my life is over anyway so trying to find happiness is a waste of what little time I have left. Don't risk any of this happening to you. Get (or stay) in counseling and work on finding peace of mind over your wife's cheating. And that doesn't mean staying or leaving - just find peace of mind. Be satisfied with that your final decision is what's best for you and, more importantly, that you are making that decision solely based on what you believe is right for you.

[TrustedthenBusted]

Your trick for R is working for you and that's great. I read it and I think "Really? This is your trick?" - but whatever works for you.

 

Another thing that stands out is that you wouldn't be with her if you would have busted back when it happened. By the time you found out you were really married - 2 kids and all. Hard to leave when you have kids if you are a good man. It feels like you are abandoning them because you are hurting and, damn it, you're tough enough to take it and will do anything for your kids. I know how that works.

 

I will always be concerned that you are throwing away a huge part of yourself and your life. You know, intellectually, that you can be a great father to your kids without living with their mother. But emotionally you don't believe it.

 

 

Well obviously there is no "trick" to getting through it. But that is just one of the ones I learned along the way. I don't want my mistakes held against me for the rest of my life either ( and I've made some ) so I've chosen not to hold hers against her forever either. ( and please... let's not have the "mistake/choice discussion, lol )

 

I found myself looking at every single act that I perceived as selfish, and tying it back to her affair. This is not only unfair, it's just stupid. And it's me clinging to my misery in order to maintain some perceived upper-hand. That is no way to go through life, and CERTAINLY no way to conduct a marriage. So I let that stuff go.

 

As for the kids... I'm not throwing away any of my life to be with them. Every second of every moment I spent with them has been genuine, and nothing from my wife's past will change that.

 

But... if I moved out due to her past, or divorced... that's different. Now her mistakes hurt me, her, them, all of us.

 

You are convinced that for the sake of your grandchild, you are stuck in your marriage. I don't feel that way. I don't feel stuck. I could buy the house across the street tomorrow. ( literally, it's for sale and I can afford it ) and still see my children every day.

 

Would I have dumped her initially before kids? Sure. We had just gotten married a few weeks prior. And only had a house to split, and had only been together a few years at that point. Easy Peasy

 

But now we've built a life together, and not to easy peasy no more.

[badkarma2013]

Your husband and I are very similar this way. I would have gone through FIRE to keep my marriage together. In fact, whenever I thought about all of the difficult scenarios we might face as a couple, I somehow overlooked the mostly likely iceberg in the process. I was off thinking about how I'd stay if she were horribly burned in a house fire, or got some life threatening illness or gained 400 pounds, or developed a crack habit and all of these other silly and unlikely scenarios. But the real enemy was right there in my face and I didn't know it.

 

An affair was simply unfathomable. And to her credit, she always made me feel that way.

 

And then Boom. Reality. And with two toddlers in tow. Divorce was not only an option, it seemed like the only sensible one on the table. It solved so many problems. Revenge. Retribution. Public Support. Relief. Reprieve. Freedom. All of it.

 

Very tempting.

***************************************************************

 

A treasure trove of advice for those who choose to stay and R or for those of us who choose to D....

 

As posted above an affair by my WW was not in my realm of reality....She pretty much had whatever she wanted...(maybe that was some of the problem...Ill never know for sure)...

 

Someone above posted that their Bh stayed but reserved the right to leave anytime..and owed them nothing.. I agree now (after D-DAY) it is a brave new world and the BS dosent owe the WS squat...

 

I STILL BELIEVE for those who choose to stay (like the couple i mention above) there is a moment of Clarity,that a BS has that one Knows beyond a shadow of a doubt whether Reconciliation will work....it may take many months or maybe years to find that answer but as for me it came instantly..

 

I knew There was nothing left of my marriage and my WW was a stranger to me..It is ALL BSs right to say at ANYTIME i am Done with this marriage with no explanation ...again for me ..I owed her nothing...

 

I filed for D immediately ..without a moments hesitation or regret...

 

Many BS divorce much later (after D-DAY) try to R but just cannot Swallow such a bitter pill..

.Again MANY people try to R, But personally i have Not seen ( in relation to the amount of infidelity these days) that many successful cases...

Edited January 26, 2015 by badkarma2013

[TrustedthenBusted]

 

I filed for D immediately ..without a moments hesitation or regret...

 

 

Shortly after D-Day, I told FWW I was leaving. Emotionally I was done, and ready to move on. It was like you say... she felt like a total stranger to me. In fact it was weird, because it was like instantly, I had absolutely no memory of my life with her. I'd look at her, and have the same reaction as if I was looking at a stranger on a bus.

 

had I actually filed then, I probably would not have regretted it. I would have dumped a stranger, and a stranger she would have remained.

 

But I didn't. I gave the stranger a year. And then another. And then another, and we found the love again, and now I'm very glad that I didn't leave right away.

[Bittersweetie]

Trusted, thank you for your posts, they are insightful and thoughtful. It seems you and I are about the same amount of time out, yet on different sides. I think you and my H do have some similar thinking.

 

This morning my H actually said something really important to me. My toddler and H have been really sick the past week, and all this snow, and other stuff, and overall it's been a tough week. My H said, "Thank you for taking care of everything this past week. I know it's been hard, but we can count on you and thank you."

 

I started to cry. Because these past five years, I've been working on becoming someone that a person can count on, someone that has another's back. I haven't been doing it so my husband can say something like the above...I've been doing it because I wanted to be a better, stronger, healthier person. It felt good to be acknowledged for that, and made my resolve even stronger that I will never be someone who makes those hurtful choices again.

[TrustedthenBusted]

Trusted, thank you for your posts, they are insightful and thoughtful. It seems you and I are about the same amount of time out, yet on different sides. I think you and my H do have some similar thinking.

 

This morning my H actually said something really important to me. My toddler and H have been really sick the past week, and all this snow, and other stuff, and overall it's been a tough week. My H said, "Thank you for taking care of everything this past week. I know it's been hard, but we can count on you and thank you."

 

I started to cry. Because these past five years, I've been working on becoming someone that a person can count on, someone that has another's back. I haven't been doing it so my husband can say something like the above...I've been doing it because I wanted to be a better, stronger, healthier person. It felt good to be acknowledged for that, and made my resolve even stronger that I will never be someone who makes those hurtful choices again.

 

Great to hear! I'm sure his words mean a lot to you.

 

Your husband sounds like he is a fan of marriage. I was too. One of it's biggest supporters, actually.

 

Then, as noted, I was faced with the reality that marriage doesn't actually offer any of the protections you think you are getting from it. Worse, it actually INVITES certain types of problems that don't otherwise exist. So I was hurt, and became very anti-marriage out of spite.

 

It took some time for me to come around and realize that marriage isn't the problem. It's just a component, and only a legal one at that. How two people feel about eachother, and how they want to spend their days is what matters.

 

Sounds like your husband has his moments ( hopefully long ones ) where he really knows he wants to spend his with you. If you are having more good days than bad, you are way ahead of the game! And that's teh same for couples NOT dealing with infidelity!

 

My best buddy and his wife aren't dealing with infidelity, but I can tell you I wouldn't trade places with those two for anything.

[autumnnight]

Trusted, thank you for your posts, they are insightful and thoughtful. It seems you and I are about the same amount of time out, yet on different sides. I think you and my H do have some similar thinking.

 

This morning my H actually said something really important to me. My toddler and H have been really sick the past week, and all this snow, and other stuff, and overall it's been a tough week. My H said, "Thank you for taking care of everything this past week. I know it's been hard, but we can count on you and thank you."

 

I started to cry. Because these past five years, I've been working on becoming someone that a person can count on, someone that has another's back. I haven't been doing it so my husband can say something like the above...I've been doing it because I wanted to be a better, stronger, healthier person. It felt good to be acknowledged for that, and made my resolve even stronger that I will never be someone who makes those hurtful choices again.

 

Again, Bittersweetie, it sounds like both you and your husband have the capacity for true love and empathy.

[JohnAdams]

I've seen a lot of recent threads on here lately about why a BS would stay with a cheater. The reality is many people do stay in the marriage for one reason or another. However, what are the long term effects of staying. I'm curious about those that have R and are 3, 5, 10 years or more out. Do you regret staying married to your cheating spouse? Do you wish you would have divorced? Or are you truly in a trusting, loving happy marriage?

 

 

I am 31 years out. First let me answer your questions. I do not regret staying at all and hate to imagine what if I had quit. I am very happy I did not divorce. I am truly in love and happily married, actually more in love than ever.

 

 

Having said that, it is a tough road and not for everyone. I was very much in love with my wife when she had her EA/PA. I was completely shocked and devastated. Though I loved her, I did not know if I could cope with what happened.

 

 

We went many years where we were happy, but something was missing. I knew she was sorry but did not appear to be remorseful. Since, I never thought it possible she would have an affair in the first place, regaining trust was very difficult.

 

 

For years, it was the elephant in the room. A cause for depression without knowing an answer. Finally due to help from on-line forums and finding the book "How to help your spouse heal from your affair". We were able to jump the final hurdle. We are now happier than ever.

 

 

It took us years to finally heal. I do think if we had the on-line resources and tools that are now available we would have healed much sooner.

 

 

It was well worth the work to get where we are. I am with the woman I love and look forward to the rest of my life with her.

 

 

I do not think reconciliation is for everyone. In many cases divorce and starting over is the best answer. Which is best for a couple is difficult to say. You can stay and work on your relationship only to find out it did not work. I think in most people's heart, they know.

 

 

Reconciliation is hard work but it can work and did for us. As someone else said, most people who are successful never look at these forums so you never know. But, there are probably more of us out there than you would ever think.

Edited January 28, 2015 by JohnAdams

[Mrs. John Adams]

I had my short affair 31 years ago. We did not have access to computers and websites to help us heal.

 

We did go to a therapist for a short while..but i really think she did more harm than good.

 

John joined a website in 2013 and found the book "How to help your spouse heal from your affair", He asked me to read it and I did. It opened my eyes to the things i had been doing wrong the past 29 years. I had not shown him true remorse...oh i was sorry...but i did not take responsibility for the pain i had caused him. That little 95 page book changed my life. I was able to show him the remorse he needed to forgive me for what i had done.

 

John and i are in a place we never dreamed we could be in again. The triggers for him no longer put him in a state of deep depression....we talk and share and discuss the moments that hurt...or remind us of the hurt we have suffered.

 

We love each other...he has forgiven me...and I carry his pain in my heart so that he can continue to heal. I know what i have done...and i accept full responsibility for it. I will spend the rest of my life helping him to heal from the hurt i caused. He is worth it...our marriage is worth it.

 

We are truly blessed.

Edited January 28, 2015 by Mrs. John Adams

[drifter777]

I'm sure you are right with regard to more successful R's then are represented on this forum. It has to be - we see a very low success rate here among BH's. Overcoming the mind-movies and re-establishing an acceptable level of trust is so difficult for most men.

 

Tell me - before d-day were you the kind of man for whom sex was precious or almost sacred?

[autumnnight]

One of the things that struck me about the Adams' story is that at some point, they CHOSE to move forward. They chose to leave behind the secondary gain of keeping the A alive and become a married couple again. They chose it over and over.

 

I think it really is as simple as that. NOT easy, but simple. When the pain of punishing and accepting punishment no longer brings one or the other or both that secondary satisfaction, they will either move forward and D or move forward and actually be married.

[drifter777]

Too late to edit my post.

 

The thing that struck me is their praise of that book. Its almost like they just came here to make their 1st post all about some book. Seems a little strange

[jbrent890]

Yeah I think those are troll posts to advertise that book. Nothing surprises me on this site anymore.

[JohnAdams]

I'm sure you are right with regard to more successful R's then are represented on this forum. It has to be - we see a very low success rate here among BH's. Overcoming the mind-movies and re-establishing an acceptable level of trust is so difficult for most men.

 

Tell me - before d-day were you the kind of man for whom sex was precious or almost sacred?

 

 

 

Yes, I felt that sex was sacred, precious and only for us as a couple. My wife was a virgin when I married her. I had been with one other girl, and not a good situation at that. I felt very special that I was her one any only. That was taken away and with all the sorrow and remorse in this world can never be returned. I thought she felt the same way. With an affair, an innocence is lost to never be regained.

 

 

I was told all the details, therefore the mind movies were very vivid. I have to admit, the mind movies still pop up from time to time. The difference is that I can now let it not overtake me. In the past, it would throw me into a depression that would take weeks to shake.

[JohnAdams]

Too late to edit my post.

 

The thing that struck me is their praise of that book. Its almost like they just came here to make their 1st post all about some book. Seems a little strange

 

 

 

I can assure you we are very real. I think the author of the book is dead and you can download the book for free. So, we have nothing to gain. We only hope to help those still suffering.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Drifter....The book is a free download...there is nothing for us to gain by recommending it. I don't care one way or the other if you read it or not. I just simply stated it helped us.

 

Funny...we have been lurking on this site for months....we decide to join...I post a REAL picture of myself...and the TROLL word gets thrown around.

 

Good grief.... could you let us hang around more than an hour before you discredit we are who we say we are?

 

http://www.lindajmacdonald.com/how_to_help_11-06-10_final_pdf-.pdf

Edited January 28, 2015 by Mrs. John Adams

[badkarma2013]

One of the things that struck me about the Adams' story is that at some point, they CHOSE to move forward. They chose to leave behind the secondary gain of keeping the A alive and become a married couple again. They chose it over and over.

 

I think it really is as simple as that. NOT easy, but simple. When the pain of punishing and accepting punishment no longer brings one or the other or both that secondary satisfaction, they will either move forward and D or move forward and actually be married.

 

*******************************************************************

 

I could not disagree more! "I think it really is as simple as that." To a BSs that is like comparing "Hiroshima." to firecracker...

 

I have communicated with both Mr and Mrs. Adams and have nothing but the upmost Respect for both of them...here is an excerpt from the the above mentioned book...

 

Few experiences in life are more traumatic than learning of

a beloved partner’s intimate betrayal. As infidelity expert, Dr.

Shirley Glass states, “The private calamity of discovering that

your partner has become someone you don’t recognize and

has lied to you as if you were an enemy blows your secure

world to pieces.” She goes on to observe, “In just a few seconds,

the safest haven in the world is turned into the source

of the greatest treachery.” 8 No wonder the online message

boards for betrayed spouses refer to the day of discovery or

disclosure as “D-Day.”

 

To suggest anything less would I consider a personal insult...

 

Mr Adams still somewhat has issues with the A and the details that followed ..YEARS later maybe not as harsh but STILL there after YEARS IN R..

 

Many BSs ,mostly BHs here choose to D because they KNOW they cannot get over the lies,deceit and betrayal shoved on them by their WW...

 

The horror of D-DAY still HAUNTS MANY BSs...

 

To suggest anything less ..would tell me one has NEVER been Betrayed by Infidelity or living in a state of complete denial......

 

P.S. Mr and Mrs Adams pls keep posting...for some you are their only hope for R.

Edited January 28, 2015 by badkarma2013

[autumnnight]

I think I was not clear. There is a difference between simple and easy. Being destroyed by betrayal is not easy. Having to live with the knowledge of what one's partner did to them is never easy. Waking up in a cold sweat from a nightmare mind movie is not easy. Being gut punched in the middle of the day by a flash of your SO with someone else is not at all easy. Ending a marrige blown up by infidelity is not easy. Trying to rebuild a marriage torn down by infidelity is not easy.

 

But the fact that it takes making a conscious choice...and then making that choice again and again, sometimes a thousand times a day, is a fact. I would expect that every time that choice is made it is excruciating in the beginning, then maybe not quite as gut wrenching, then it becomes easier over time, with hard work and a truly repentant WS. And then one day you realize that your WS is no longer wayward in deed or thought or character, and you have to decide, am I going to see them as they are now, or see them as they were? Again, the choice is not easy. But it is simple, and we make it. If we see them as they are now, then we can be open to actually loving them and NOT making sure they never forget who they were. If we choose to keep them in a freeze frame of who they were, then nothing they do matters, and we use them as a constant whipping post.

 

The former is recovery and reconciliation. The latter is a kind of wayward all its own.