When people pursue the obviously wrong choice.

[Phoe]

or the

 

"It was my half-birthday yesterday and Jack didn't do enough for me. All we did was go to dinner. He didn't even get me a gift! I'm dumping him"

 

a week later she mentions him and I ask "I thought you wanted to break up with Jack"

 

"Yeah, Jack brings me starbucks every morning though, so... you know. I hung out with Peter last night though and we ****ed. OMG that **** was good though."

 

?????????? seriously ??????????

[Anderlie]

Here's what I think honestly: you aren't getting guys because your bitterness and derision towards people who have absolutely nothing to do with your lack of romantic success is obvious from a 50 yard radius.

 

If you were comfortable and confident in yourself and what you brought to the table none of those people would matter. These women might not be outwardly attractive but they are confident in their dating life and that's what the men are responding to. If you worked on that aspect and believed you were worth dating because of who you are (rather than thinking wrongly that it's everyone ELSE with the problem) you'd do a lot better IMO.

[Phoe]

Here's what I think honestly: you aren't getting guys because your bitterness and derision towards people who have absolutely nothing to do with your lack of romantic success is obvious from a 50 yard radius.

 

If you were comfortable and confident in yourself and what you brought to the table none of those people would matter. These women might not be outwardly attractive but they are confident in their dating life and that's what the men are responding to. If you worked on that aspect and believed you were worth dating because of who you are (rather than thinking wrongly that it's everyone ELSE with the problem) you'd do a lot better IMO.

 

I don't behave bitterly or derisively towards others. When I have thoughts and doubts like the ones I've expressed in this thread, I keep that to myself. No need in behaving bitterly towards people, what good would it do?

 

But indeed, I am far from perfect, and don't always say or do the best things.

 

Perhaps more confidence would help, perhaps it would not. Can't really say. But I do try my best.

[Anderlie]

You don't have to ACT bitter, people can still sense that stuff. Like the old jokes about desperate women being easy to spot, it comes off a person in waves. Just learn to like yourself OP, you're worth it.

[Phoe]

You don't have to ACT bitter, people can still sense that stuff. Like the old jokes about desperate women being easy to spot, it comes off a person in waves. Just learn to like yourself OP, you're worth it.

 

I do like myself.

 

I recently participated in a thread about people learning to be happy with themselves and like themselves.

 

I'm not perfect and I have flaws and shortcomings but I think I'm a decent person and I do try to be as good a person as I can be and do things that make me feel happy about myself.

 

I see good things in myself, and perhaps no other people see those things or care about those things, but those things mean something to me, and for that I am happy.

[Rejected Rosebud]

Phoe I think the reason I have trouble with your point of view on this is because there evidently is a fair sized crowd of supposedly nasty stinky girls and also a bunch of guys who date them and then there is you by yourself sitting on the sidelines judging the girls, it sounds like maybe you're jealous? Even if they're all creepy it sounds like they're doing their social life the way they want to??

[BluEyeL]

First, the women seem to mostly get sex out of that, not marriage or moving in together with these guys. Who needs that? Sex is easy to find. You can get it too.

 

Second, when I was young, 17-18, I was really pretty. Could say beautiful. Didn't have much success with boys because I was painfully shy. When I started dating in my early 40s I was also shy and unsure of myself. After practice, I got confident and started to have a lot of success! Conclusion: confidence is the key. Also, seeming happy, positive and outgoing, i.e. the opposite of bitter and dejected.

 

And not caring about how much better others got it. They likely didn't get it much better. Things never are what they seem.

[BC1980]

Have you ever heard the saying, "water seeks its on level"? It basically means that like minded people (dysfunctional or not) will seek each other out and pair up. You probably are of no interest to these men at work because they can tell you have higher standards than these women.

[Phoe]

I find it weird that I'm the one that's being labeled as bitter and derisive. Am I really that bad for venting my thoughts on the matter through an anonymous forum?

 

These women are bitter and derisive towards each other and everyone around them. They act nasty with each others, and other coworkers, men and women. Totally innocent and uninvolved women get bullied. The men they date get ridiculed behind their backs. They publicly create drama and hurt others.

 

But I'm the bitter and derisive one? For talking about it? How?

[Phoe]

Phoe I think the reason I have trouble with your point of view on this is because there evidently is a fair sized crowd of supposedly nasty stinky girls and also a bunch of guys who date them and then there is you by yourself sitting on the sidelines judging the girls, it sounds like maybe you're jealous? Even if they're all creepy it sounds like they're doing their social life the way they want to??

 

That's an exagerration.

 

There's a handful of these women who are very ridiculous. The rest of the women at my work are all just normal people. I'm not just the one normal person sitting there by myself. I'm just not mentioning the other normal people because what's the point? What do they have to do with it? What does Sue who works at the front desk who's a normal lady married with kids have to do with any of this? Nothing. So I don't mention her.

 

I'm only specifically talking about the women that I notice are very wild, dramatic, bitchy, and chain dating many of the coworkers. They're the only ones I am addressing.

 

I'm not jealous of the girls but am confused about them and want to understand what it is about them that is desirable, that I am lacking.

[Phoe]

Basically, anytime I see people who are succeeding at something that I fail at, I want to figure out what it is that they are doing, so I can help my own situation. Whether it be dating, school, a certain skill, whatever. When I'm not good at something, I'm gonna watch those who ARE good at it.

[Lernaean_Hydra]

I find it weird that I'm the one that's being labeled as bitter and derisive. Am I really that bad for venting my thoughts on the matter through an anonymous forum?

 

These women are bitter and derisive towards each other and everyone around them. They act nasty with each others, and other coworkers, men and women. Totally innocent and uninvolved women get bullied. The men they date get ridiculed behind their backs. They publicly create drama and hurt others.

 

But I'm the bitter and derisive one? For talking about it? How?

 

It's not the fact that you're talking about it, it's the way you're doing. Your tone is giving the impression of bitterness. Those women may well be as awful as you say but they aren't posting here. We cannot see them in action, so-to-speak so that's irrelevant. Anytime someone resorts to down right trashing others when discussing their lack of success in dating it comes off that way.

 

You want to know what attracts men to those women? Ask the men who are attracted to them. Try to look at them with an unbiased lens instead of just seeing the bad. It does you little good to observe them with a sneer and deem them low quality. Those behaviors you view as appalling are clearly found desirable by others. And while I'd like to agree that those guys are only after sex, you yourself have given examples that gives the impression they're after a bit more than that.

 

Maybe it's just their confidence? Maybe it's the fact that they understand that for whatever reason, men are drawn to them and rather than question it, they harness that power and know how to use it. Maybe they have a "I don't give a f*k" attitude that many find appealing? A lot of guys appreciate a woman who appears to be doing her own thing regardless of what others think and treat others with a sort of "You can either come along for this ride with me or GTFO here" mentality.

[Gloria25]

Here's what I think honestly: you aren't getting guybecause your bitterness and derision towards people who have absolutely nothing to do with your lack of romantic success is obvious from a 50 yard radius.

 

If you were comfortable and confident in yourself and what you brought to the table none of those people would matter. These women might not be outwardly attractive but they are confident in their dating life and that's what the men are responding to. If you worked on that aspect and believed you were worth dating because of who you are (rather than thinking wrongly that it's everyone ELSE with the problem) you'd do a lot better IMO.

 

I was waiting for the "you're bitter and it shows and that's why no one likes you" argument to come....

 

Honey, I'm going through a bitter spat this week. I'm not like this all the time. If you'd understand the stress I'm under right now and the back/forth I've been going through with a recent crush, you'd understand why I'm not chirpy today.

 

I think where I go wrong is not in the bitterness dept, but in other ways... that I think is a turn off for guys.

 

-For one, I'm too independent. I'm not saying that to beat my chest and/or put down other chicks who actually had parents, family, friends, and/or guys to lean on. There's days I wish it wasn't me alone - responsible for me alone.

 

I think guys need to feel "needed" and these women know how to work on that need for a guy. I have my own place, money, etc. A guy would feel useless around me. My last FWB would constantly ask if he could do this/that and he even took it upon himself to do this or that (Ie. Handyguy stuff).

 

So, unfortunately I don't have rugrats and/or need a guy to cover half/all my bills. I think a lotof guys also go into "rescue" mode and therefore, these helpless women appeal to them.

 

-Manipulators....I have no game. I have a soul. I don't care or have time for head games...Chicks like Phoe mentioned do. I've posted about the "town ho" that I encountered years ago. I can't play like a helpless damsel and I can't "trick" guys...sorry, no skills in that dept.

 

-Doormat...I think I give too much. These manipulative chicks make these guys work for them. I'm too accommodating...too nice. That's a turn off to guys too.

[Phoe]

It's not the fact that you're talking about it, it's the way you're doing. Your tone is giving the impression of bitterness. Those women may well be as awful as you say but they aren't posting here. We cannot see them in action, so-to-speak so that's irrelevant. Anytime someone resorts to down right trashing others when discussing their lack of success in dating it comes off that way.

 

You want to know what attracts men to those women? Ask the men who are attracted to them. Try to look at them with an unbiased lens instead of just seeing the bad. It does you little good to observe them with a sneer and deem them low quality. Those behaviors you view as appalling are clearly found desirable by others. And while I'd like to agree that those guys are only after sex, you yourself have given examples that gives the impression they're after a bit more than that.

 

Maybe it's just their confidence? Maybe it's the fact that they understand that for whatever reason, men are drawn to them and rather than question it, they harness that power and know how to use it. Maybe they have a "I don't give a f*k" attitude that many find appealing? A lot of guys appreciate a woman who appears to be doing her own thing regardless of what others think and treat others with a sort of "You can either come along for this ride with me or GTFO here" mentality.

 

I don't understand how my tone is bitter.

 

I'm specifically trying to be specific in how I'm talking and am specifically trying not to just be trashing them.

 

I've said several times in this thread that I don't enjoy talking negatively about people, I get no enjoyment out of this, but how else do I express my opinion? How else do I describe the negative? How else do I describe the negative ways these women behave and the way they treat others? I don't quite know how to politely say any of that. And there's no point in sugar coating it when I'm trying to clearly convey facts and situations.

 

I don't see how I could have done anything differently. Other than to just not post at all.

[Rejected Rosebud]

I don't see how I could have done anything differently. Other than to just not post at all.

No it's good that you posted and if you want I bet you can find a "learning moment" in looking at the way it came off to some of us me included!

[Phoe]

I was waiting for the "you're bitter and it shows and that's why no one likes you" argument to come....

 

Honey, I'm going through a bitter spat this week. I'm not like this all the time. If you'd understand the stress I'm under right now and the back/forth I've been going through with a recent crush, you'd understand why I'm not chirpy today.

 

I think where I go wrong is not in the bitterness dept, but in other ways... that I think is a turn off for guys.

 

-For one, I'm too independent. I'm not saying that to beat my chest and/or put down other chicks who actually had parents, family, friends, and/or guys to lean on. There's days I wish it wasn't me alone - responsible for me alone.

 

I think guys need to feel "needed" and these women know how to work on that need for a guy. I have my own place, money, etc. A guy would feel useless around me. My last FWB would constantly ask if he could do this/that and he even took it upon himself to do this or that (Ie. Handyguy stuff).

 

So, unfortunately I don't have rugrats and/or need a guy to cover half/all my bills. I think a lotof guys also go into "rescue" mode and therefore, these helpless women appeal to them.

 

-Manipulators....I have no game. I have a soul. I don't care or have time for head games...Chicks like Phoe mentioned do. I've posted about the "town ho" that I encountered years ago. I can't play like a helpless damsel and I can't "trick" guys...sorry, no skills in that dept.

 

-Doormat...I think I give too much. These manipulative chicks make these guys work for them. I'm too accommodating...too nice. That's a turn off to guys too.

 

I've had people say I'm a doormat, but I don't quite agree with that personally.

 

I'm very giving, and non-manipulative, but I don't stand for crap. People know not to mess with me.

 

The girls at work who bully others? They leave me alone. For maybe the first month I was there they made snide remarks and poked at me. I brushed it off and didn't react in any particular way, and they soon realized it was no good to screw with me, and now they're cordial with me. But they mess with others. Either those that get down from it, or those that lash out from it.

[Phoe]

No it's good that you posted and if you want I bet you can find a "learning moment" in looking at the way it came off to some of us me included!

 

The problem is that I can't have a "learning moment" when I have no idea what I did wrong and no idea what I could've done differently. If anything I've learned that I perhaps ought to keep more of my thoughts to myself.

[EveAFlame]

Phoe, we have ALL known men and women who get loads of attention and we are stuck thinking "WTF?!"

 

For awhile I was super irritated (read: fixated) by this woman who is a cousin of a childhood friend. She's almost 30, smokes weed all the time, no job, and a 16 trying to squeeze into a 2. She PRIDES herself on getting men to buy her alcohol and weed. She does NOT lack for attention. She had two guys in a fistfight, I kid you not. And laughed about it!

 

I'm loyal and try to be a good person, I have a degree, I am affectionate, pretty low maintenance. I don't demand extraordinary things but why does this chick seem to be doing better than I am romantically?

 

Finally, I took inventory. I have a career and a nice place and good friends. She couch surfs and has no actual friends just male "suitors." People like me, they want me around, we go places and do things. She gets booty calls and passes out on people's lawns. Sure she gets free booze and dope but uhhh...I don't want those things lol.

 

The men she attracts probably have nothing in common with me. I wouldn't WANT what she has anyway.

 

You are MILES ahead of trashy mean girls. Keep being the best Phoe you can be. Do not let them bog you down with constantly analyzing and wondering and the why why whys.

Edited January 21, 2015 by EveAFlame
Spelling

[chumble]

There's a woman who worked at my work for several years but is no longer there.

 

She was stunning. Beautiful face, perfect teeth, nice hair, nice body, very sweet and funny personality.

 

Not once did I ever see a man pursue her or hear a man at work talking about her. She totally flew under the radar at work.

 

You did not hear anyone talk, but it doesn't mean she went unnoticed. Guys who value their job can be pretty hush-hush at work, but away from the premises and in un-mixed company this is a different story.

[clevelander321]

 

I'm not jealous of the girls but am confused about them and want to understand what it is about them that is desirable, that I am lacking.

 

It's not even possible to explain why men are attracted to some other girls from your work more than you on this message board.

 

I have tried to say that guys do not really care about perfect hair or grooming.. And I have said that guys like fun and of course sexual girls.. Beyond that I do not know what answers you are seeking..

[JuneJulySeptember]

I find it weird that I'm the one that's being labeled as bitter and derisive. Am I really that bad for venting my thoughts on the matter through an anonymous forum?

 

These women are bitter and derisive towards each other and everyone around them. They act nasty with each others, and other coworkers, men and women. Totally innocent and uninvolved women get bullied. The men they date get ridiculed behind their backs. They publicly create drama and hurt others.

 

But I'm the bitter and derisive one? For talking about it? How?

 

If you start posting here often enough, people are going to try to take you down. One of the major forms of entertainment on the internet is pointing out others' flaws/mistakes or pointing the finger.

 

People just love saying, "You can't get anybody because the opposite sex can see your bitterness." Yea, right. I know hordes of cheaters, abusers, and downright HORRID people that have no problem getting tons of dates.

 

Don't believe the hype.

 

I think it's really ironic that people are calling you bitter because you are one of the kindest and least superficial people on here. You reply to all messages and don't care about height/race, etc. So, much so, that I still question if your profile/history is 100% real.

 

Anyway, don't sweat it. It's the internet.

[Phoe]

It's not even possible to explain why men are attracted to some other girls from your work more than you on this message board.

 

I have tried to say that guys do not really care about perfect hair or grooming.. And I have said that guys like fun and of course sexual girls.. Beyond that I do not know what answers you are seeking..

 

perfect hair? sure. not a big deal.

 

but grooming? men don't care about grooming? since when?

 

so us women can just stop clipping and filing our fingernails and toenails, stop shaving altogether, stop washing our vaginas and stop brushing our teeth then?

 

Sounds reasonable.

[clevelander321]

perfect hair? sure. not a big deal.

 

but grooming? men don't care about grooming? since when?

 

so us women can just stop clipping and filing our fingernails and toenails, stop shaving altogether, stop washing our vaginas and stop brushing our teeth then?

 

Sounds reasonable.

 

Basically yes.. I can't even tell you if girls I date even have fingernails..

[Phoe]

I think it's really ironic that people are calling you bitter because you are one of the kindest and least superficial people on here. You reply to all messages and don't care about height/race, etc. So, much so, that I still question if your profile/history is 100% real.

 

Anyway, don't sweat it. It's the internet.

 

I get the "you're not real" bit pretty often. I don't see any point or how I could benefit from lying and making things up, but I sure can gain things and learn things and maybe inform others by being honest. So that's what I do.

 

But yes. It's the internet. Which I keep telling myself I am gonna spend less time on.

[JuneJulySeptember]

I get the "you're not real" bit pretty often. I don't see any point or how I could benefit from lying and making things up, but I sure can gain things and learn things and maybe inform others by being honest. So that's what I do.

 

But yes. It's the internet. Which I keep telling myself I am gonna spend less time on.

 

I try not to go after other posters.

 

I might bitch and moan a lot but just about women in general.

 

When you question a person's character and on top of that, tell a person who is doing poorly with dating that their character is to blame for that lack of success, not only is that a fallacy (terrible people succeed in dating all the time), it's mean to do to someone because they will beat themselves up over it. Been there.