Am I unreasonable

[spanz1]

Hi guys (and gals), thanks for the thoughtful replies whatever the viewpoint was. .

 

 

 

wow, you sure got a wide range of responses! thanks for hanging in there thru them all.

 

 

if you were thinking of getting married to her...maybe this is all a good thing. it forces the two of you to really ask some tough questions about who both of you are, if you two really are compatible, and what boundaries are forming that will continue on into the marriage (and if SHE will live within those boundaries). your eyes are now wide open. so you and her either work it out, or you move on...a wiser man. there is not "right" answer here, just deciding how to move forward. in a marriage, you can not demand anything you wish for, and alternatively the spouse can not do anything she wants either. there has to be a compromise. in a good marriage, that compromise is a balance of love/respect/truth/trust. so work it out. good luck!

Edited January 26, 2015 by spanz1

[Realist3]

You have every right to ask for whatever you want. The question is is your expectation for that demand to be met reasonable, given your current state of commitment? Not really.

[Oberfeldwebel]

If all communication is open and you desire 6 months of phone records, are you willing to respond in kind? What kind of boundaries had been established by for the relationship or was it just assumed? To stay or go is a decision only you can make. If you desire to stay in this relationship, I highly recommend premarital counseling.

[Radu]

They are not his kids. They are hers from a previous relationship.

 

And yes, it's "only dating" untill you become engaged.

 

They are two single people and since he does not mention cohabitation or any shared properties or financial instruments, we can assume they have separate homes and separate financials.

 

As such he has virtually no right to her personal documents. She is in her right to chuckle at him and then ask if he wants to go out for dinner on Sat night or order pizza and stay in when he asks for the. She also has the right to tell him to F.O. when he asks for phone records, emails etc.

 

He has also has the right to walk away from her if he doesn't like her response as does she from him.

 

BULLSH*T !

 

Going by this logic, cheating [betrayal of trust] is not really cheating because they are not taken in 'that' sense.

They are [were] in a relationship.

They were not single in this sense of the word [single in the sense you are seeing is the sense used by legal entities], they were not unattached.

 

She has no obligation to show anything, not now, nor if she was married to him.

Also, he has no obligation to keep investing time into a relationship with a woman who is mentally damaged [yes, as a general rule BPD is not treatable ... because they don't/can't accept it is a problem in the first place].

[BetrayedH]

You have every right to ask for whatever you want. The question is is your expectation for that demand to be met reasonable, given your current state of commitment? Not really.

 

My personal opinion - it is perfectly reasonable to ask since they are trying to get married in the next few months. It is perfectly reasonable to expect your partner in life (for the rest of your life) to be honest with you and not to keep secrets.

 

She wants to keep secrets (secrets about things that have happened with an old boyfriend while they have been dating). And she just wants to call it "the past." I suppose if she cheated last week, that would be "in the past," too.

 

If she wants to get married, I'd need all the cards on the table. If she wants to keep her "past" all private, she can do it with some other schmuck that buys bullsh*t.

Edited January 26, 2015 by BetrayedH

[Radu]

I only got this far ^^ in this post and wow, jbrent, are you for real?

 

Bipolar disorder is a mental disorder. It is not something people want. It is a neurological disorder that requires medication to treat. You act like BPD is just an excuse and your SWEEPING generalizations that they are natural liars is astounding. Wow. Natural liars? Do you have BPD? Have you done any research on it? Have you any clue as to what you are talking about? Blown fricking away by your accusations and false assertions. Now I will question every thing I ever read from you

 

Neither have you it seems.

 

BPD = Borderline Personality Disorder

In very simple terms, she has the emotional maturity of a little girl [6yrs of age].

Like a child she cannot see the grey in ppl, cannot reconcile that they are both good and bad.

In her mind, ppl are either bad, or good, you are either Gandhi or Hitler, and unless you submit in full to her views on things, you are Hitler.

Move to far, you are abandoning her, move to close, you are engulfing her, there is no middle ground with her.

 

When it's good, it's good, because she is mirroring you, she will adopt your beliefs, your opinions, and believe strongly in them.

While limerence lasts, it's amazing.

When it ends, she will be mad at you for not being able to fix her, or keep her fixed.

 

It's like living with an emotional terrorist; in fact the new research shows that a good number of abusers [physical, psychological and verbal] tend to have a form of Personality Disorders.

 

There is no medication for this, though if the BPD has bipolar, you could treat that and hopefully reduce a little the generator of emotions that are then run through the BPD filter.

 

PS: It's estimated that 1-3% of those that seek help actually have the strength of ego to go through therapy and fix themselves.

Those sound like awesome betting odds.

[Spectre]

Oldshirt while right in theory, your stance is too simplistic. There are real feelings and emotions involved here and OP wants to fight for this relationship.

 

If all that bonds a couple is marriage or the idea of marriage then this has become a sad world indeed. Commitment is commitment and true commitment doesn't need a paper backing.

 

That is also an issue independant of the phone records, being married or not. That is a matter of being safe in the relationship vs privacy. If they are unwilling to compromise then what hope do they have long term. Of course we all know if she didn't have something to hide this would be a minor spat at best.

 

He is only right "in theory" if we are strictly going by legal definitions, which nobody said we were anyways. Legally sure, you are either married or you are not. But to act like it is the norm for people to be together for years and someone to say "well, it's just an interview!" or whatever, is non-sense. It is only correct if the OP says that is what he believed.

 

This is like if you believe the Earth is flat, that is your right, but you still kind of have to acknowledge that while it is your right, 99% of the world believes the Earth is not flat, but round. It is the same here. In his world, it might be "a ring on it or nothing" but for most people, nope. That is not a type of belief system one assumes everyone has. If I were to believe the same stuff..that would be on me but what ALSO would be on me would be to make sure my partner knows what I believe, instead of them having to find out years later that..oh wait no, I totally view myself as single despite being in a relationship.

 

But here, let me nip this "it's just like an interview" analogy in the butt. Dating for years is not like an interview. Dating for a few weeks is the interview. Dating for years is you accepting the job, and getting married? Is getting whatever the equivalent of "tenure" is on your job. There is no real "2 years, I'm still single though!" unless you made this plain that this is how you view relationships. So even if the OP's girl had the same strange views, unless she opened up about them right off the bat before the relationship got serious? She could not use them as an excuse for any type of cheating, or anything, merely because "hey, I'm single". So even if she was the type to believe that non-sense, it's totally irrelevant unless she is either dating a telepath..or unless she flat out used words to convey this belief to her partner.

 

We have been given no hint whatsoever this is the case, so even bringing up the "this is just an interview" was..dubious at best in the first place.

Edited January 26, 2015 by Spectre

[Realist3]

He is only right "in theory" if we are strictly going by legal definitions, which nobody said we were anyways. Legally sure, you are either married or you are not. But to act like it is the norm for people to be together for years and someone to say "well, it's just an interview!" or whatever, is non-sense. It is only correct if the OP says that is what he believed.

 

This is like if you believe the Earth is flat, that is your right, but you still kind of have to acknowledge that while it is your right, 99% of the world believes the Earth is not flat, but round. It is the same here. In his world, it might be "a ring on it or nothing" but for most people, nope. That is not a type of belief system one assumes everyone has. If I were to believe the same stuff..that would be on me but what ALSO would be on me would be to make sure my partner knows what I believe, instead of them having to find out years later that..oh wait no, I totally view myself as single despite being in a relationship.

 

But here, let me nip this "it's just like an interview" analogy in the butt. Dating for years is not like an interview. Dating for a few weeks is the interview. Dating for years is you accepting the job, and getting married? Is getting whatever the equivalent of "tenure" is on your job. There is no real "2 years, I'm still single though!" unless you made this plain that this is how you view relationships. So even if the OP's girl had the same strange views, unless she opened up about them right off the bat before the relationship got serious? She could not use them as an excuse for any type of cheating, or anything, merely because "hey, I'm single". So even if she was the type to believe that non-sense, it's totally irrelevant unless she is either dating a telepath..or unless she flat out used words to convey this belief to her partner.

 

We have been given no hint whatsoever this is the case, so even bringing up the "this is just an interview" was..dubious at best in the first place.

 

Perhaps while he is at it he should ask for her financial records as well.

 

Fyi it is 'nip this in the BUD.'

 

I think you are missing the point entirely. This isn't about excuses for cheating, this is about the reasonableness of invading someone's privacy without their permission the first time with the emails, then demanding more invasion with the phone records.

 

Where you fell off the track is arguing whether people in a two year relationship would have the expectation of fidelity. That is not the issue.

 

He is demanding to invade her fundamental right to privacy that many married couples fight over in court every single year.

 

There is only one person that gets to decide whether his demand is reasonable and that is his gf.

 

Obviously this thread highlights the disparity between the bars people set for reasonable.

[aliveagain]

jayinblue you now know that she puts more importance on her individuality than she does on your relationship. You also know that she keeps information from you, secrets. You need to decide if this is the woman you really see yourself building a future with. This event was a test on your relationship, she knows how important the truth is to you because your request to see her phone records hasn't changed, your standing your ground. If she had nothing to hide I would bet money that those records would now be in your hands. Making plans to meet a guy friend when you were going to be out of town and not telling you is a big red flag. Why didn't she tell you before you planned to go away, why did she stand you up to stay with him once you became aware of who she was with?

 

You are in year two and your having trust issues, how will the relationship last a lifetime? You caught her, she knows it, you know it and making new rules that start today should tell you all you need to know. If I wanted to marry someone I would do just about anything to make them comfortable and safe. Bullsh*t about being treated like a criminal is blame shifting, if she can't make you feel safe, walk away.

[Furious]

Hi All,

 

So I am in a long term relationship (2 years) and recently discovered I got massively lied to by my girlfriend. I was looking through her email and learned that 6 months ago, an ex boyfriend dropped by her house, allegedly drunk, she helped him to the car, and somehow lost her phone in the process. The emails show that she asked him back over the next day to help look for the missing phone, she criticized him on where to park his car (as the neighbors apparently hate him) and then when he offered to come back and help her look for the phone, she told him to wait so she could make sure I had gone to work.

 

I confronted, she initially denied, and then offered shifting explanations after I confirmed I knew what happened in the email. So far, she is outright denying that there was any physical contact. I have asked her for cell phone records from 3 months before this night and up to the present to verify her story. Am I wrong?

 

There are some complicating factors here, she has BPD and also has two kids whom I love very much and have grown attached to. I am just torn apart. Her kids keep asking me to "come back" but I keep telling them that I love them very much and they can always contact me. But at this point, I don't know what else to do...

 

She is now telling me she "won't be treated like a criminal" and wants to work on making me happy. She also tells me she doesn't want to look into the past. I have told her that its phone records or we are done.

 

Am I being too harsh?

 

 

Those with nothing to hide, hide nothing. Regardless as to obtaining phone records you have learned your girlfriend can omit truths and when caught lie to you.

 

In a way you've been given a blessing in disguise and can move on from this. Thankfully you discovered her true character sooner rather than later.

 

Life is too short to be the truth police and no relationship can survive without trust.

 

I'd just move on and let her go.

[MadJackBird]

Hi All,

 

So I am in a long term relationship (2 years) and recently discovered I got massively lied to by my girlfriend. I was looking through her email and learned that 6 months ago, an ex boyfriend dropped by her house, allegedly drunk, she helped him to the car, and somehow lost her phone in the process. The emails show that she asked him back over the next day to help look for the missing phone, she criticized him on where to park his car (as the neighbors apparently hate him) and then when he offered to come back and help her look for the phone, she told him to wait so she could make sure I had gone to work.

 

I confronted, she initially denied, and then offered shifting explanations after I confirmed I knew what happened in the email. So far, she is outright denying that there was any physical contact. I have asked her for cell phone records from 3 months before this night and up to the present to verify her story. Am I wrong?

 

There are some complicating factors here, she has BPD and also has two kids whom I love very much and have grown attached to. I am just torn apart. Her kids keep asking me to "come back" but I keep telling them that I love them very much and they can always contact me. But at this point, I don't know what else to do...

 

She is now telling me she "won't be treated like a criminal" and wants to work on making me happy. She also tells me she doesn't want to look into the past. I have told her that its phone records or we are done.

 

Am I being too harsh?

 

 

RUN!

 

Being married to someone with borderline personality disorder is perhaps the most difficult thing a person can do. This twisting of the truth is only the beginning.

 

If you have the option to walk away, go NC you will be better off in the long run. If you get married and intermix your kids even more or have kids together you will be playing this push pull game the rest of your life. I'm divorced to someone with BPD and it is the most difficult thing ever.

[jayinblue]

Well, the truth keeps unfolding in strange ways. She now tells me that actually he had in fact been communicating with this guy for a long time, like weekly or whatever. Says that there was nothing physical about it and she really did not do anything all that bad, but now understands that she violated trust (at least I think so anyway).

 

We talked last night and she tells me that he would just update her on his life and she did it because she felt lonely or needed attention or something because she has no friends. I said she has plenty of friends, girlfriends, etc. and at the end of the day, if he's a friend (I'll be honest, given how horrific this guy is/was - he was bad enough she filed a restraining order against him), there would be no secrets to be had.

 

So this morning she's reminding me its one of our like monthly anniversaries, and seems confused that I'm still not 100% ready to be open and start talking to her again. I said I still need to see records to try and get the full picture of everything that went on and she tells me that it won't make me feel better.

 

I just feel so confused. I love her but I hate the fact she did this to me. I spent part of Sunday talking to her 11 year old son who apparently also now has some idea of what happened (which makes no sense to me either). I also feel like when we talk its more weird defensive / minimizing behavior and she seems to be of the impression that since she says nothing more significant happened that I should just be okay with it all.

 

Anyone worked through something like this for the better? I've invested so much in this relationship I don't want it to end, but I'm also massively concerned now since every time we talk about this stuff it changes...

[whichwayisup]

Well, the truth keeps unfolding in strange ways. She now tells me that actually he had in fact been communicating with this guy for a long time, like weekly or whatever. Says that there was nothing physical about it and she really did not do anything all that bad, but now understands that she violated trust (at least I think so anyway).

 

There's more. You can bet your life on it. This is 'trickle' truth. She now 'admits' she violated trust, but still the lying and hiding so much contact from you, did she truly believe she didn't do anything that bad??!! She is in panic mode, throwing out little bits and pieces to get you off her back.

 

If you can get a hold of this OM, do so. But do not tell her you're contacting him. Tell him that you know he's been having a full on affair with your wife, and that it is over, he must stay out of her life. Call his bluff, start asking him how often he had sex with your wife.

 

Tell your wife that you expect her to get tested with you for STD's. Tell her that if tests are positive, now is the time to come clean about EVERYTHING, this is her chance to be 100% truthful. That if she denies or lies, THAT is what will cause more problems, better to know the truth NOW and deal with it.

 

This is far from over, really doubt she had no sex or fooling around with this guy.

 

Sorry if this hurts to read.

[drifter777]

I just feel so confused. I love her but I hate the fact she did this to me.

So here is your situation - you've fallen in love with her so much that you have engaged with her children and she with yours. Now you've discovered she is cheating - at least emotionally - with an ex. Your confused and shocked and angry and sad - etc. Just know that every guy who discovers his wife/SO is cheating on him feels just like you do. Some of the details might seem different but they really boil down to the same things: What really happened? Did they have sex? How long has it been going on? How can I ever trust her again? Will I ever be able to forgive her? It doesn't sound like she's is going to step up and answer any of the questions you need to make the best decision for you.

 

I also feel like when we talk its more weird defensive / minimizing behavior and she seems to be of the impression that since she says nothing more significant happened that I should just be okay with it all.

 

All cheaters want the betrayed to just "get over it already". Its in their best interest for you to just take it and give her a pass. You can understand that - right? This kind of narcissistic behavior is common to cheaters. They feel completely entitled to satisfy their real or imagined life problems by confiding and having sex with another person who "understands them" and pays more attention to them. Lets say you are unattached and one of your ex's starts hanging out with you and subtly makes it clear she is unhappy with her SO. Most guys would pursue that chick for sex and probably get it since she is hanging it out there for him. She's willing to screw him in order to keep him around drooling over her and paying attentive to her every whim. She gets to live in fantasy land. And he knows he's going to get no-strings sex as long as he behaves in a certain matter. What single guy is going to pass this up?

 

Anyone worked through something like this for the better? I've invested so much in this relationship I don't want it to end, but I'm also massively concerned now since every time we talk about this stuff it changes...

If your asking can a couple reconcile after cheating the answer is maybe. Its painful and takes a remorseful SO willing to open up and provide the truth and then do whatever it takes to make it up. It takes a long time. It takes counseling. And a betrayed husband/SO will never forget what she did and will forever have trust issues with her.

 

Is all of this worth it? You feel as though you've invested so much that you want to make this work. The fact is your not married and don't have kids together - why put both of you through all of this hell? You can still be there for her kids if you want to. You have no parental rights so you will get only the visitation she will allow and that they want. So you don't know how this part will turn out. The only person you can help recover from all of this is yourself. See a counselor and start working on your own recovery because, over time, that is what's most important here.

[aliveagain]

Well, the truth keeps unfolding in strange ways. She now tells me that actually he had in fact been communicating with this guy for a long time, like weekly or whatever. Says that there was nothing physical about it and she really did not do anything all that bad, but now understands that she violated trust (at least I think so anyway).

 

We talked last night and she tells me that he would just update her on his life and she did it because she felt lonely or needed attention or something because she has no friends. I said she has plenty of friends, girlfriends, etc. and at the end of the day, if he's a friend (I'll be honest, given how horrific this guy is/was - he was bad enough she filed a restraining order against him), there would be no secrets to be had.

 

So this morning she's reminding me its one of our like monthly anniversaries, and seems confused that I'm still not 100% ready to be open and start talking to her again. I said I still need to see records to try and get the full picture of everything that went on and she tells me that it won't make me feel better.

 

I just feel so confused. I love her but I hate the fact she did this to me. I spent part of Sunday talking to her 11 year old son who apparently also now has some idea of what happened (which makes no sense to me either). I also feel like when we talk its more weird defensive / minimizing behavior and she seems to be of the impression that since she says nothing more significant happened that I should just be okay with it all.

 

Anyone worked through something like this for the better? I've invested so much in this relationship I don't want it to end, but I'm also massively concerned now since every time we talk about this stuff it changes...

 

Why did she hide it from you for so long if it's no big deal. Why isn't he a friend as a couple? Why keep their friendship, their weekly communication a secret from you? Why meet him without you being present? I think she knows your not backing down and is betting that your compassion can be manipulated into accepting a minimized version of her relationship with him. She's giving you some truth but not all because she knows you will probably leave her if you knew why their relationship is secret. Explain that you will not be in a relationship with someone that keeps secrets from you and before you can commit to marriage you will require that you both pass a polygraph. Will she agree to one before marriage?

[BetrayedH]

And yet another helping of trickle truth for you. She pulled the records and realized that they show plenty of contact. Remember that expression, those with nothing to hide will hide nothing? Well, she had something to hide and she knew it. So showing them to you doesn't get her off the hook. Now she'll have to come up with a new set of lies to help cover the truth.

 

How many times will she be permitted to lie to you before you decide that you don't want a partner in life that lies to you? She's proving time and time again that she's got no problem doing it.

 

You know what to do. If your best friend had this problem, what would you tell him to do? What if it were your som with a sketchy girlfriend? Would you tell him to just forget it and take her word for it? Would you tell him to follow her instructions and stick his head in the sand? Or would you tell him to just get the eff out of there?

[harrybrown]

Has she offered to take a polygraph?

 

Has she offered to show you the results of her std tests?

 

She had an A with the bad boy, and she doesn't want to tell you about it.

 

She won't show you records, she will not be open and honest with you.

 

Do not marry this woman!!!

 

She could change, but she is not. Do you really trust her? Without trust, there is not a good relationship.

 

Ask her if you had an A, would she still consider marrying you?

[MadJackBird]

OP,

 

What you are describing is typical BPD behavior. Of course she filed a restraining order on the ex. She was splitting. He was all bad. Well now he's okay and all good?

 

Take my advice. Run and don't look back. If you marry this person you will be fighting the emotional push pull for ever. It's sad that there are kids involved, but they are not your children together. You really have the opportunity to make a clean break.

 

The cheating won't stop. My BPD former wife had multiple affair partners in our marriage. They seek out these relationships to feel different emotionally. The chemicals the body produces when in a new relationship are similar to chemicals that are produced on narcotic drugs. It's a cycle of addiction.

 

GET OUT!

[Realist3]

There's more. You can bet your life on it. This is 'trickle' truth. She now 'admits' she violated trust, but still the lying and hiding so much contact from you, did she truly believe she didn't do anything that bad??!! She is in panic mode, throwing out little bits and pieces to get you off her back.

 

If you can get a hold of this OM, do so. But do not tell her you're contacting him. Tell him that you know he's been having a full on affair with your wife, and that it is over, he must stay out of her life. Call his bluff, start asking him how often he had sex with your wife.

 

Tell your wife that you expect her to get tested with you for STD's. Tell her that if tests are positive, now is the time to come clean about EVERYTHING, this is her chance to be 100% truthful. That if she denies or lies, THAT is what will cause more problems, better to know the truth NOW and deal with it.

 

This is far from over, really doubt she had no sex or fooling around with this guy.

 

Sorry if this hurts to read.

 

It is not his wife.

[whichwayisup]

Oh close enough, common law girlfriend. They were talking about getting married not too long ago. They are serious and the kids have all met and it's more or less a blended family unit now. Advice still applies, just minus a wedding ring.

[oldshirt]

Now it's time to just get caught up to speed on the new vocabulary that you will be learning here.

 

I will give you some terms to look up and become familiar with because this is now simply a textbook case.

 

I'll post some words in bold for you to look up and it will put everything into perspective.

 

 

 

 

Well, the truth keeps unfolding in strange ways.

 

look up the term trickle truth.

 

 

She now tells me that actually he had in fact been communicating with this guy for a long time, like weekly or whatever.

 

example of trickle truth.

 

 

Says that there was nothing physical about it and she really did not do anything all that bad, but now understands that she violated trust (at least I think so anyway).

 

 

look up the term rugsweeping. This is a classic example of it.

 

We talked last night and she tells me that he would just update her on his life and she did it because she felt lonely or needed attention or something because she has no friends.

 

look up the term smoke and mirrors. She is putting up a smoke screen to keep you from seeing what she is actually doing.

 

 

I said she has plenty of friends, girlfriends, etc. and at the end of the day, if he's a friend (I'll be honest, given how horrific this guy is/was - he was bad enough she filed a restraining order against him), there would be no secrects.

 

So this morning she's reminding me its one of our like monthly anniversaries, and seems confused that I'm still not 100% ready to be open and start talking to her again.

 

look up the term gas lighting. This is textbook example of trying to make you feel crazy and off base.

 

 

 

I said I still need to see records to try and get the full picture of everything that went on and she tells me that it won't make me feel better.

 

no vocabulary words here, but she is probably right.

 

I just feel so confused.

 

 

 

 

her tactics are working. BPDs are master manipulators and masters at keeping people offbalanced and unfocused.

 

 

 

I spent part of Sunday talking to her 11 year old son who apparently also now has some idea of what happened (which makes no sense to me either).

 

im not sure it's cool to involve her children in this, but what'evs. You have a right to protect yourself.

 

I also feel like when we talk its more weird defensive / minimizing behavior and she seems to be of the impression that since she says nothing more significant happened that I should just be okay with it all.

 

 

look up the term rugsweeping.

 

 

 

 

 

I've invested so much in this relationship I don't want it to end,

 

 

look up the term sunken cost fallacy. This is a complication on your end. This is where people want to keep investing into something despite evidence it may be a bad investment because they have already invested so much and don't want to lose it all. ....so they just keep investing more.

 

 

 

but I'm also massively concerned now since every time we talk about this stuff it changes..

 

I don't know if there is a specific term for this, but has your mom or grandmother ever told you that people will tell lies to cover up other lies?

 

 

.

 

Bottom line is you have a textbook cheater using every trick in the Cheaters Handbook here.

[Silveron]

Jay,

 

I've been married 10 years to a wife who is BPD. It is hell. Even if you get her 'phone records' how long will it be until she does something else? Lies, deceit, abuse, betrayal, belittlement, no remorse, no empthy, no heart-felt apologies.

 

The issue resides deep within her and without years of therapy you will always be second-rate to her. They see things as black and white and when she paints you black, be very careful on the things she can do. You love the person because of the things you've seen in them but the disease is overwhelming and no amount of love can cure them of it. The only way to win this game is to not play it. I also feel very sorry for those kids.

[spanz1]

and the truth will keep unfolding, right up to the point where there are not new facts for you to find out by snooping. at that point, you will have not further concrete proof of anything, so she will say you know everything there is to know.

 

 

but, 10, maybe 20 years from now...it will all come back to you in crystal clear detail...you caught her lying to you, and you never really figured out what the truth was...and you start playing out different scenarios, and some of them are pretty scarry. but it is too late to do anything then...she has "forgotten the details/timeline".

 

 

THAT is why we are advising you to find the truth out NOW, and only then make a decision about the future.

 

 

and, oh, btw, use a condom with her until she is std tested....it does not sound too good right now.

[HereNorThere]

OP, just wondering, have you done your research on Borderline Personality Disorder? Have you spoken with a therapist about what your life is going to be like if you marry this person? Is she in intensive therapy like DBT?

 

Personally, knowing what I know about that particular personality disorder, my fight-or-flight, self preservation drive would kick and get me out of there. Trust me, you can't save her, you can't save her kids and you're almost to the point where you will no longer be able to save yourself. BPD is what of the most challenging disorders known to therapists and many believe it untreatable or at the very least, refuse to treat patients with it due to legal reasons (the black/white splitting causes them to turn on therapists.)

 

The biggest mistake you are making now is trying to apply logic to a person who runs on pure emotion. You will NEVER make sense of her behavior because it is nonsensical. If you are past the event horizon of this emotional blackhole and you must stay, the best you can do is prepare yourself for the fall out. Stay vigilant, watch for signs of the splitting and have a plan to escape if it comes down to it.

 

This is your life from now on. Unless she is in INTENSIVE, long-term, specialized therapy and making progress, you will deal with this until you part ways. It's simply part of the illness and there is no way around it.

 

“Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you gaze long into the abyss. The abyss gazes also into you.” ― Friedrich Nietzsche

[Try]

She now tells me that actually he had in fact been communicating with this guy for a long time, like weekly or whatever. Says that there was nothing physical about it and she really did not do anything all that bad, but now understands that she violated trust (at least I think so anyway).

Her understanding "that she violated trust" is cheater speak for she lied.

 

I said I still need to see records to try and get the full picture of everything that went on and she tells me that it won't make me feel better.

Her telling you that seeing the records "won't make me feel better", is cheater speak for her admitting that her secret relationship with her ex was more than the weekly contact that she just admitted to, and thus she is still lying

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Anyone worked through something like this for the better? I've invested so much in this relationship I don't want it to end, but I'm also massively concerned now since every time we talk about this stuff it changes...

We have seen something like this many times before on this site, and sorry but there is no working out for the better here.

 

Trickle truth. Attacks you for daring to question her honesty, when she knew that she was lying to your face. Wants to focus on the future while rug sweeping the cheating in the past. What she is doing is right out of the cheaters script. The more that you learn, the more that you will know the full extent of her continued relationship with her so called ex (no longer really an ex). The minute that you break up with her because of her continued relationship with the ex, you may be switching rolls, with you becoming her ex and her being in a relationship with him.