I hate getting a crush on women and becoming infatuated.

[JuneJulySeptember]

I don't disagree with the notion that a man has to have some drive, ambition, and success to have success with women. And the more success and money, you have, the better.

 

But I do find it ironic that once women find that man, then THEY themselves proceed to sit on their arse at home or in swanky cafes living off their husband's money. It's the ironies of ironies. You want an ambitious person so you don't have to do jack.

 

I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it myself. And I've seen it a lot now. You have to be about late 30 to mid 40s to really see it take shape.

 

And men are starting to do it too.

[xxoo]

I don't disagree with the notion that a man has to have some drive, ambition, and success to have success with women. And the more success and money, you have, the better.

 

But I do find it ironic that once women find that man, then THEY themselves proceed to sit on their arse at home or in swanky cafes living off their husband's money. It's the ironies of ironies. You want an ambitious person so you don't have to do jack.

 

I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it myself. And I've seen it a lot now. You have to be about late 30 to mid 40s to really see it take shape.

 

And men are starting to do it too.

 

If this is a genuine concern, a man who is highly driven and a high earner can pick and choose a woman who is also highly driven to be a high earner.

 

For the rest of us, we just want a partner who we can count on to pull his weight and get ***** done instead of having paralysis by analysis or thrusting his head in the sand. A man who struggles to handle life is a burden, not an asset.

[Maleficent]

Nobody is too busy to respond to a text.

 

I sent her a text around 1 pm yesterday. Being too busy to respond to a text in 24 hours is BS. She's avoiding me.

 

 

At this point, yes she is avoiding you because apparently, flat out telling you she wasn't interested months ago didn't work.

 

Let.it.go.

[JuneJulySeptember]

If this is a genuine concern, a man who is highly driven and a high earner can pick and choose a woman who is also highly driven to be a high earner.

 

For the rest of us, we just want a partner who we can count on to pull his weight and get ***** done instead of having paralysis by analysis or thrusting his head in the sand. A man who struggles to handle life is a burden, not an asset.

 

You can't tell who they are.

 

They might have some education and work history, but once you start making enough money for them to live off you, then getting a job becomes, well, unappealing.

 

I'm just saying. There's lots of lazy women who have no trouble getting mates.

[BlueIris]

I don't disagree with the notion that a man has to have some drive, ambition, and success to have success with women. And the more success and money, you have, the better.

 

But I do find it ironic that once women find that man, then THEY themselves proceed to sit on their arse at home or in swanky cafes living off their husband's money. It's the ironies of ironies. You want an ambitious person so you don't have to do jack.

 

I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it myself. And I've seen it a lot now. You have to be about late 30 to mid 40s to really see it take shape.

 

And men are starting to do it too.

 

Fortunately, this risk if less than ever before. More women than ever before are earning college degrees, and are now earning more and earning them faster than their males peers.

 

Women Now 33% More Likely Than Men to Earn College Degrees | CNS News

 

Also, more women are earning more money than ever before, and more than their husbands in a growing number of cases.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/30/business/economy/women-as-family-breadwinner-on-the-rise-study-says.html

 

The men who are dating women in their 20’s and 30’s have far less to fear regarding whether their wives will be slackers if for no other reason than that those women are already more academically and economically involved and successful than ever before.

 

It's really exciting, and puts so many attributes into play. My BF is an amazing cook!

 

I'm just saying. There's lots of lazy women who have no trouble getting mates.

 

The guys ought to not marry them. Who wants a lazy mate?

[serial muse]

I don't disagree with the notion that a man has to have some drive, ambition, and success to have success with women. And the more success and money, you have, the better.

 

But I do find it ironic that once women find that man, then THEY themselves proceed to sit on their arse at home or in swanky cafes living off their husband's money. It's the ironies of ironies. You want an ambitious person so you don't have to do jack.

 

I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it myself. And I've seen it a lot now. You have to be about late 30 to mid 40s to really see it take shape.

 

And men are starting to do it too.

 

This is both misogynistic and supremely unhelpful to the OP. Do you not realize that you are actively insulting a lot of women posting on this very thread, who are in relationships and pulling their own weight? Are we supposed to pat your head and say there there while you say nasty things? Because I'm seriously tired of this shixt. Or was that insult on purpose? I can't fathom what you think is the good of it here.

 

And for the record, seems to me like Busy Girl AND the OP's ex were the ambitious ones in those particular equations. As has been discussed.

Edited January 29, 2015 by serial muse

[JuneJulySeptember]

This is both misogynistic and supremely unhelpful to the OP. Do you not realize that you are actively insulting a lot of women posting on this very thread, who are in relationships and pulling their own weight? Are we supposed to pat your head and say there there while you say nasty things? Because I'm seriously tired of this shixt. Or was that insult on purpose? I can't fathom what you think is the good of it here.

 

And for the record, seems to me like Busy Girl AND the OP's ex were the ambitious ones in those particular equations. As has been discussed.

 

I said men do it too.

 

It's in there. See it? You quoted it. Good.

[elaine567]

I don't disagree with the notion that a man has to have some drive, ambition, and success to have success with women. And the more success and money, you have, the better.

 

But I do find it ironic that once women find that man, then THEY themselves proceed to sit on their arse at home or in swanky cafes living off their husband's money. It's the ironies of ironies. You want an ambitious person so you don't have to do jack.

 

I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it myself. And I've seen it a lot now. You have to be about late 30 to mid 40s to really see it take shape.

 

And men are starting to do it too.

 

And there are men out there that enjoy the little woman at home ironing their shirts and looking after their kids.

Some men do not want powerful career driven women, some men get pretty insecure around such women and would rather have the wife drinking coffee with her friends and shopping, than she challenge him for power in the home.

SO we can all get on high horses about "lazy" women taking advantage of poor men, but there are also men out there, turning educated women into SAHMs, glorified cleaners and nannies because it suits them better that way.

[elaine567]

I'm asking why do I have to work hard and make things happen to get a girl?

 

Women don't have to do anything other than exist. Yes I'm in that bitter phase

 

Do you not read any of the other threads on here? I guess you probably don't.

[carhill]

I'm asking why do I have to work hard and make things happen to get a girl?

 

The social gods have deemed men the responsible party in active pursuit of mating opportunities with otherwise unknowns.

Women don't have to do anything other than exist.

That's a double-edged sword, if true. One the one hand, they certainly can sit back and choose amongst men who approach them. On the other, they can crush on a guy until time ends and, if he doesn't approach them, their crush will remain forever unrequited.

Yes I'm in that bitter phase right now.

Life's about phases. Acceptance phase is pretty good, IME.

 

Also as I said earlier, I strongly feel that even when I get a job and settled, dating will still be very hard for me.

Yep, it probably will. Keep trying different things. Perhaps one will pan out. For me it was switching demographics to meet different types of women.

Then what are people going to suggest I do?

IDK, that's then. This is now. Then will get here soon enough. Deal with the now and processing out the crushes of the now and moving through the bitterness.

[somedude81]

Without knowing my age, or how long I've been in college, how can anybody I meet say that I'm not driven or that I don't have any goals? Especially if they knew that I just graduated college and got a new job?

 

Once I get my job, nobody in their right mind is going to say that I don't have any ambition.

 

Which of course means that no sane woman would say that I'm not "self-driven enough" or that I would be a weak partner who needs support.

[hotpotato]

18 pages? Next time we should just copypasta from other sd threads. Its really just people giving the same advice over and over.

[Imajerk17]

Without knowing my age, or how long I've been in college, how can anybody I meet say that I'm not driven or that I don't have any goals? Especially if they knew that I just graduated college and got a new job?

 

Once I get my job, nobody in their right mind is going to say that I don't have any ambition.

 

Which of course means that no sane woman would say that I'm not "self-driven enough" or that I would be a weak partner who needs support.

 

Do people likely know that you took x number of years to graduate? Probably not. Do people know that you are past the age of 30? Probably. You posted your picture on here, you're not bad-looking, but you look your age.

 

However, when you meet someone, you get a sense of what they have going on in their life. That is, if you make any sort of connection with them. That Busy Girl knows so little about you and that you seem to think that it is a GOOD thing--is disconcerting.

 

Likely it means you and she never even had a deep conversation. Or that she sensed you didn't have much going on so she didn't press further. I mean, what do you know about her life? If not much, then that's also a connection problem. If a lot, then what did you share back about yourself?

 

Lest you find all the "get your life in order" advice you are getting to be frustrating, I'll point out that you ALSO got flirting advice from xxoo AND myself and I think a couple others on your thread "How do I date a busy girl?". Basically you were called out for your humour being goofy and low-status (such as asking Busy Girl if she could squeeze you into her calender in a few months). Maybe you should go back and reread?

[JuneJulySeptember]

Fortunately, this risk if less than ever before. More women than ever before are earning college degrees, and are now earning more and earning them faster than their males peers.

 

Women Now 33% More Likely Than Men to Earn College Degrees | CNS News

 

Also, more women are earning more money than ever before, and more than their husbands in a growing number of cases.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/30/business/economy/women-as-family-breadwinner-on-the-rise-study-says.html

 

The men who are dating women in their 20’s and 30’s have far less to fear regarding whether their wives will be slackers if for no other reason than that those women are already more academically and economically involved and successful than ever before.

 

It's really exciting, and puts so many attributes into play. My BF is an amazing cook!

 

 

 

The guys ought to not marry them. Who wants a lazy mate?

 

Not my intention to put down women.

 

Among the women in my immediate family I have an Ivy Leaguer and probably the hardest worker I have ever met. Separately.

 

Everybody always is waiting for the one crack to take shots at posters for being a misogynist.

 

I do think SD is getting a ton of extra flak for what he's done up to this point because he's a guy.

 

"Jesus dude, you're 33 and don't have a degree and career and house? You're so f_cked."

 

And a lot of it is people's built in reaction because he's a guy.

[xxoo]

Without knowing my age, or how long I've been in college, how can anybody I meet say that I'm not driven or that I don't have any goals? Especially if they knew that I just graduated college and got a new job?

 

Once I get my job, nobody in their right mind is going to say that I don't have any ambition.

 

Which of course means that no sane woman would say that I'm not "self-driven enough" or that I would be a weak partner who needs support.

 

Women are attracted to men who demonstrate drive, ambition, capability, strength, etc. If you don't demonstrate it, women will not look at you as that kind of man.

 

Getting a job is an important achievement, but only the very beginning of career growth. Some grow, some don't. Those who have drive grow in their careers.

[MissBee]

Having a job or degree doesn't make you driven. That's the bare minimum. Several people have pointed this out.

 

A man with a degree and a job is the minimum for me and for many women. It doesn't mean he is driven, especially if he skated by and graduated with all Ds or the bare minimum of grades that would get him out.

 

Different women have different ideas about what ambitious and driven means but largely, most college-educated women will have more expansive ideas about what that means. It seems for you because you finally graduated college and are looking for a job even though you admit you have zero passion or inspiration for anything other than a gf and you feel life happens to you, you're supposed to be seen as some prize catch who is goal-oriented and driven. Errr...nah. I remember even answering the questionnaire on for your job you needed help to figure out what makes you unique for it.By definition, driven and ambitious men (and women) make things happen! ALL driven and successful people are go-getters who don't simply laze on by and believe they are the victim in everything and life just happens to them as you've admitted. They are the type going ABOVE and beyond, not just the bare minimum, the type hustling, working hard, they can sell themselves, they are HUNGRY for life and achievements and are always striving to be their best selves professionally and/or personally.

 

That SD is what many people are probably thinking of when they talk about goal-oriented, driven people. People who always have plans, always are working on something or towards something, always moving up the ladder, have passions, inspirations, things they want to do and be FOR THEMSELVES or for a bigger reason other than just let me graduate and get a job so I can get a gf.

 

As a woman, I can tell you I don't merely exist as you think. I got my BA, got my Masters, now I'm in my PhD program and will have my PhD by time I'm 30. During all those times I've had milestones, goals, things I've wanted to do and see, activities I cared about, organizations I joined, causes I support, things in the world I care about and for the rest of my life I will always be improving myself professionally and personally. None of this is about men or has anything to do with finding a man. When a man meets me, I am interesting to him because I have an actual life, ambitions, things he can be proud of me for and talk to me about and I'm not just a pretty face sitting around hoping to find a husband.

 

For me, an ambitious man doesn't have to be one with the same amount of education or degrees as I have, none of the men I've dated had the same level of education as I did, but most of them were go-getters, 2 owned their own businesses, all went above and beyond to excel professionally as well as personally, they had things they cared about and did in the world and none of it had anything to do with me or just doing it to find a woman. Broke up with my ex, because while he was an engineer, and was ambitious in some ways, he was very narrow-minded and didn't care about much other than money and for me, that's not an attractive quality.For some women he would be considered driven and ambitious simply because he had a good career, for me, he wasn't. I remember him even saying he hoped they never promoted him, he never wants to be an engineering manager or ever have a managerial role in his job. I was like ....I mean everyone doesn't have to be a manager but that was one of the many clues where I realized he was generally very short-sighted and would be happy to be in one spot forever and had zero desire to strive for anything more.

 

Long and short of it is: Busy Girl and lots of college aged women will probably have higher standards for what is considered ambitious, not just graduate college and has a job. They are in college and around many men who will graduate and have a job...so that alone is not a stand out quality, especially if they are around men who have post-grad education plans or other loftier plans after college. Not everyone has to be doing those things either, just saying that, YOUR opinion is that no one could possibly think you're not ambitious, but ah yea they can especially if ambitious for them is a lot more than degree and job but seems to have no drive beyond finding a woman. And if you think again that this doesn't show, and is some big secret, think again. When I talk to a man with ambitions he CANNOT HELP discuss them! This is how inspired, passionate people are. When I meet men who care about shyt, they talk about them often, discuss their plans, bounce ideas off me etc...so if I was with a man who never discussed ambitions, goals, ideas, etc it would be pretty apparent that he simply wasn't that ambitious. You already admit BG doesn't know your goals....first clue...if you had such great goals she'd have known them and maybe for her the fact that she knows nothing of your passions and ambitions might be a turn off and she gets turned on by men who discuss these things with her. So if you can't guess a reason she wouldn't be interested: here's another one.

[preraph]

But I do find it ironic that once women find that man, then THEY themselves proceed to sit on their arse at home or in swanky cafes living off their husband's money. It's the ironies of ironies. You want an ambitious person so you don't have to do jack.

 

I don't know one woman who has ever done this. I think you watch too much "reality tv."

[elaine567]

Without knowing my age, or how long I've been in college, how can anybody I meet say that I'm not driven or that I don't have any goals? Especially if they knew that I just graduated college and got a new job?

 

Once I get my job, nobody in their right mind is going to say that I don't have any ambition.

 

Which of course means that no sane woman would say that I'm not "self-driven enough" or that I would be a weak partner who needs support.

 

Well it depends what kind of a job you get and what your prospects are having gained that job.

At 33 you are a wee bit behind the curve, uneducated women who do not know anything about the education system may be impressed, but educated women who know the system will still be asking questions.

[somedude81]

Do people likely know that you took x number of years to graduate? Probably not. Do people know that you are past the age of 30? Probably. You posted your picture on here, you're not bad-looking, but you look your age.

 

However, when you meet someone, you get a sense of what they have going on in their life. That is, if you make any sort of connection with them. That Busy Girl knows so little about you and that you seem to think that it is a GOOD thing--is disconcerting.

 

Likely it means you and she never even had a deep conversation. Or that she sensed you didn't have much going on so she didn't press further. I mean, what do you know about her life? If not much, then that's also a connection problem. If a lot, then what did you share back about yourself?

 

Lest you find all the "get your life in order" advice you are getting to be frustrating, I'll point out that you ALSO got flirting advice from xxoo AND myself and I think a couple others on your thread "How do I date a busy girl?". Basically you were called out for your humour being goofy and low-status (such as asking Busy Girl if she could squeeze you into her calender in a few months). Maybe you should go back and reread?

 

Since I'm no longer in college I have no reason to hide my age.

 

As for BG, she's gone. No more point in talking about her. I'm talking about women I meet from now on. What will they think of me?

 

Women are attracted to men who demonstrate drive, ambition, capability, strength, etc. If you don't demonstrate it, women will not look at you as that kind of man.

 

Getting a job is an important achievement, but only the very beginning of career growth. Some grow, some don't. Those who have drive grow in their careers.

 

Exactly, it's only the start. That's why I'm saying that no sane woman will say that I don't have any ambition.

 

The whole reason I got a college degree in Information Systems is because it is a requirement to get the higher level IT jobs once I start getting experience. I plan on moving up from entry level works as soon as I can.

 

Honestly it's pretty ridiculous that up until now everybody was telling me that I needed to graduate college and get a job. Now that I actually graduated and will have a job pretty soon, everybody is trying to tell me that it's no longer good enough.

 

BTW, the opposite of having no ambition is not being super passionate and having or wanting to own your own business etc.

Edited January 29, 2015 by somedude81

[xxoo]

Honestly it's pretty ridiculous that up until now everybody was telling me that I needed to graduate college and get a job. Now that I actually graduated and will have a job pretty soon, everybody is trying to tell me that it's no longer good enough.

 

My comments are in response to your general complaint about no women being interested in you. This problem is directly related to the way you've lived your adult life thus far. No, getting a job isn't a magic pill.

 

If you are to advance in your career, connections will be vital. Yet you've resisted making connections as a student. If you had, you'd have a huge head start in this area! Are you planning to change in this regard as an employee?

[somedude81]

Well it depends what kind of a job you get and what your prospects are having gained that job.

At 33 you are a wee bit behind the curve, uneducated women who do not know anything about the education system may be impressed, but educated women who know the system will still be asking questions.

 

Very soon I will have an entry level IT job.

 

After a few years of experience the average salary of IT work will be around $90k.

 

http://www1.salary.com/CA/Los-Angeles/Network-Administrator-III-Salary.html

 

Yes I know that I'm behind the curve. That's just how things turned out.

 

Women are free to ask questions, and they will get half the truth

 

I started college in 2008 and graduated in Fall 2014. In between High School and college I was working but then felt I needed to get a degree.

[JuneJulySeptember]

 

Honestly it's pretty ridiculous that up until now everybody was telling me that I needed to graduate college and get a job. Now that I actually graduated and will have a job pretty soon, everybody is trying to tell me that it's no longer good enough.

 

 

That is correct. Once you have a 'white collar' job, it SHOULD be good enough.

 

Then, you just put on your dating profile, you work in Industry A and make 'this much money range'.

 

Anything beyond that is trying to see how far you've climbed the ladder and how much $ you make.

 

I'd be totally fine with a 33 year old woman starting out entry level in whatever career. In fact, I'd probably prefer it because somebody more established would be trying to size me up based on what 'I have accomplished this far' compared to what she's got. Make me wanna .

[JuneJulySeptember]

Very soon I will have an entry level IT job.

 

After a few years of experience the average salary of IT work will be around $90k.

 

Network Administrator III Salaries in Los Angeles, CA | Salary.com

 

Yes I know that I'm behind the curve. That's just how things turned out.

 

Women are free to ask questions, and they will get half the truth

 

I started college in 2008 and graduated in Fall 2014. In between High School and college I was working but then felt I needed to get a degree.

 

If you end up making that after a few years, then you won't have to worry, because you'll be making more than 80% of people with over 10 years of experience in whatever field.

 

Without knowing much about what school you went to, or your specific degree, I'd say your expectations are skewed high, but hey, you never know.

 

If it does happen, then you've evened the curve.

[somedude81]

That is correct. Once you have a 'white collar' job, it SHOULD be good enough.

Then, you just put on your dating profile, you work in Industry A and make 'this much money range'.

 

Anything beyond that is trying to see how far you've climbed the ladder and how much $ you make.

 

I'd be totally fine with a 33 year old woman starting out entry level in whatever career. In fact, I'd probably prefer it because somebody more established would be trying to size me up based on what 'I have accomplished this far' compared to what she's got. Make me wanna .

 

That's exactly what I'm going to do.

 

That should at least make me more attractive on OLD.

 

If you end up making that after a few years, then you won't have to worry, because you'll be making more than 80% of people with over 10 years of experience in whatever field.

 

Without knowing much about what school you went to, or your specific degree, I'd say your expectations are skewed high, but hey, you never know.

 

If it does happen, then you've evened the curve.

 

Honestly I don't know if I'm skewing high or not.

 

I just did a search in salary.com for IT work that requires a degree and a few years of experience.

 

"May require a bachelor's degree in area of specialty and 4-6 years of experience in the field or in a related area"

 

Honestly I don't believe that I'll be making $90k in 4-6 years but it's a nice thought that it's possible

[BlueIris]

Not my intention to put down women.

 

Among the women in my immediate family I have an Ivy Leaguer and probably the hardest worker I have ever met. Separately.

 

Everybody always is waiting for the one crack to take shots at posters for being a misogynist.

 

I do think SD is getting a ton of extra flak for what he's done up to this point because he's a guy.

 

"Jesus dude, you're 33 and don't have a degree and career and house? You're so f_cked."

 

And a lot of it is people's built in reaction because he's a guy.

 

I didn’t call you a misogynist. I showed that your perceived risk is likely much greater than the actual risk- and the trend. As mentioned by others, this might be a factor affecting somedude.

 

Speaking only for myself, it isn't that he's a guy. It's that he sees himself as being equal on the education and accomplishment yardstick with women who have achieved more and done so earlier. It's dismissive and disrespectful of what they have achieved. I’ve dated men who disrespected what I’ve done and I don’t like it any more than they’d like my disrespecting their achievements. I stop dating them.