When The Fire Goes Out

[Rainbowlove]

It sounds like there were times when she was pulling away from you (prioritizing other things) and you wanted more, and now you're pulling away from her (sexually) and she's wanting more.

 

Have there also been extended times when things were mutually "all in" from both of you? Or is it a long term pattern of push-pull?

 

On some level, I think great sex simply begets great sex. What would turn you on? Thinking erotica, porn, old scenes from the L word . If you just get turned on by whatever means, and have good times together, maybe that'll spark a positive feedback loop.

 

There is 6 years difference between us. We met when she was 19. She had been out of the closet since 14. I had only been out for 3 years when we met.

 

She was young, her dad had just passed away and in a lot of ways, I stepped in and cared for her. She did the same for me as my family turned their back on me when I came out.

 

Essentially, we had each other.

 

You are correct in saying there were times when she pulled away. I believe to grow and sometimes I let her go freely and sometimes I didn't (the EA). During that time, I seriously contemplated divorce. It was a hard time for us.

 

My friends say I was always the one chasing her and begging her for time and attention and she could have cared less. Then in walks my AP and suddenly she cared. And fought hard to keep us together.

 

The early days we were both very bonded. Then not. Then bonded. Push/pull...affair and here we are.

 

I like all kinds of porn. My wife is a little more reserved, but she will play along. Gonna spruce it up some more. I think you're right. I need a spark

 

Thank you for your thoughtful questions and responses. I'm grateful for the support. Truly.

[whichwayisup]

Talking about our sex problems isn't easy. I know if I didn't say...hey, we had horrible sex last night, she wouldn't have said anything to me...even though she agreed. She'd never say it out loud first.

It takes two. You're working on your own stuff and she has to work on hers. She needs to communicate more and speak her mind honestly.

[MJJean]

Being all lesbian and all, I think relationships are the same...gay and straight alike. They are hard work to maintain connection and intimacy and gratitude.

 

I disagree. Men and women think differently and have different triggers when it comes to desired response. However, there are some universal truths. Such as communication, touch, focusing on each other, etc. being things that nurture every relationship.

 

I appreciate the responses in the thread. It helps me feel more normal. I'm reminded of the highs and lows that come along with decades of married life.

 

Oh, yes, ebb and flow are the norm for any long term relationship.

 

For me, more so than my wife, I do need the daily connection, the talking, and step away from work life and cell phones, and TV (unless football is on ).

 

If you had to mention sports I wish you were a BPL soccer fan. I've been looking high and low for one.

 

You need the daily connection and I am sure she does, too. But maybe what makes her feel connected is not the same thing as what makes you feel connected. I've heard a lot of great things about the 5 Love Languages book. Or you could just ask her.

 

Before our little guy came along, I think we were better at making an effort. We took walks on the beach, read books to each other, wrote poetry, went camping, kayaking, we took art classes together, we traveled, we dreamed big...

 

So much of our daily life has become about him, as it should, but I think we put our relationship on the back burner a lot and it hurts us. Finding balance has been hard.

 

Read this. It changed my life!

How American parenting is killing the American marriage ? Quartz

 

Someone said, it takes effort. It takes a whole lot of effort every day. From the little things to the bigger stuff. I'm in this for the long haul. I think there's more I can do to help us get there.

 

And the fact that so many people have no clue that real love is a verb..a choice made daily.. and takes actual effort annoys my soul. So many think it must be over or it is/was not real love if you have to make an effort years in. It's ridiculous. It's refreshing to see someone who loves their spouse and understands that keeping love alive takes work.

 

Thanks for listening and for the support, everyone.

 

I hope you're away with your wife snuggling and having hot jungle sex. Every marriage needs that couple time away from the kid(s) now and again or people start to forget why they got married in the first place.

[MJJean]

I like all kinds of porn. My wife is a little more reserved, but she will play along. Gonna spruce it up some more. I think you're right. I need a spark

 

Careful with the porn and any toys/props you may use. I like porn and toys/props as much as the next gal, but if they are used too frequently I start to wonder if my DH is into me or into what we're watching/using. Porn and toys/props can be a great way to connect and explore together as long as they don't become necessary for hot sex.

[AlwaysGrowing]

Do not under estimate the emotional toll one pays for living a drama filled life for an extended period. It is like our minds have to shut that part off for maintenance..or take it off line to preserve self.

 

Maybe you just need quiet in regards to your emotions...keeping the emotional pendulum in the middle...no wide swings. Many people need time to process major life events before they re-engage their life.

[Rainbowlove]

Seems thongs go along way with me

 

Our little man spent the night at his grandparent's house.

 

We got dolled up and went out to a nice restaurant and talked about all the great trips we've taken over the years. We had some good laughs remembering those times.

 

Went home and had some serious naked fun. We more than made up for the miserable experience from the last weekend.

 

Thank you to all of you who have chimed in. I know we still have work to do. We are both willing to do what it takes to keep our love alive and family connected.

 

I feel good and optimistic.

 

Go Pats!!!

[Lion Heart]

......

Perhaps you're going through a mid life crisis, and the cliche " it's not about you, it's about me" is ironically relevant.

 

I think you crave security and at the same time crave excitement, that's an oxymoron type of life. You seem afraid to let go and risk what I think you know deep down that the highs comes with lows and that in between there's a mundane, ordinary quality to contentment.

 

For some people contentment is frightening , as it can make some people feel ordinary and unexciting. The risks, the gambling with excitement and need for it is something you seem attracted to. Some people crave drama and only feel alive when risking contentment.

 

You and your wife see things from a different lens and are different people. Your wife should be with someone who is a better fit to her wants and needs. I think you would be better off being single, and exploring the excitement of novelty.

 

Yes!

You need to weigh up (through counselling I'd think)

whether your wife is merely in the "boring and mundane" section of your life by default. You committed to her for many reasons, you could separate these reasons like a checklist.

 

As with what I figured out, I am in similar position to your wife.

My WH and me are working out what his "secret life" that he craved and led him away from us, contains. It wasn't actually OW but excitement, pleasure and relaxation.

 

My WH does want to be here with the kids. He wants the security of our home life. Now Since the A and the difficult work of R, he's fallen out of love with me. I can feel it. But I know and he says he loves me. It's a very mature love. Our sex life has changed (improved in some areas and gotten worse in others) but that's ok. As my friend (psychologist) said, "forgive yourselves for the difficult periods". I am and hope he can.

 

WH is having IC and we are having MC. This family deserves at least that. The work we're undertaking outside MC is creating real change. We are more relaxed as of 2 days ago. We are making progress individually regardless in all facets of our lives. We understand that nothing is constant, that's life!

 

I'm entering into his secret life. I want to. He wants me there. We're finding ways to satisfy his needs outside our marriage and they don't include OWs. It takes alot of adjustments to my expectations of him but I know he's still committed. It means time out for him so it's more on my plate.

 

Lion Heart.

Edited February 3, 2015 by Lion Heart

[Rainbowlove]

Now Since the A and the difficult work of R, he's fallen out of love with me. I can feel it. But I know and he says he loves me. It's a very mature love. Our sex life has changed (improved in some areas and gotten worse in others) but that's ok. As my friend (psychologist) said, "forgive yourselves for the difficult periods". I am and hope he can.

 

I am still going hot and cold. Probably more cold than hot. I hate this.

 

This morning, my wife came in the bathroom naked and I all but turned away from her. Yes, I am tired. Our son has been sick. It's been exhausting.

 

I know I hurt her feelings. She said, "I'm a beautiful woman, you know? I wish you would just pay attention to me." The sad look in her eyes hurt me.

 

Then, after I'm ready for the day, I go down stairs and try to make it up to her, because I know I rejected her again. I know I really hurt her feelings. As I'm hugging her and just trying to connect with her, she brings it to sex. Always right back to sex. What the F is wrong with me? Why does that bother me? All I want is a hug and comfort and warmth and that's not good enough for her.

 

We work different schedules. We are like two passing ships in the night. She's been working a lot of nights and I'm home alone a lot with our son. Her way or reconnecting is sex. My way is very different.

 

I truly don't know how to change or fix this.

 

What I don't want is for my wife to feel badly about herself b/c I cannot meet her needs or because she doesn't feel desired by me. I'm afraid that's what's happening.

 

I have an appt with my T next week to start to unravel this. I need to have the sit down with my wife and talk about this...again. We just keep going around and around in circles....and it always ends up to her feeling bad about being rejected and me feeling bad about not meeting her needs, but my needs are also unmet.

 

Is this part of what you experience, Lion Heart? Anyone? I cannot get myself to the level of desire or passion that she wants and needs and that we both deserve.

 

I just cannot get there without a giant nudge from her. Then I don't know if it's because I want to or because I feel bad about not wanting it and hurting her and I am just trying to keep the peace. When I think about it, I rarely initiate sex anymore.

 

This is a mess. Thong time?

[jackslife]

My 10 cents, for what it's worth.

 

If she is feeling sexually frustrated and has been physically rejected by you, then when you do show an interest, she will try to have sex with you, for both pleasure and to know you are still attracted to her. But you reject her again because you only want a cuddle. So she is more frustrated, feels more rejected and ends up wanting more sex next time for the same reason. It becomes a viscous circle.

 

A lot of marriages end up with similar problems, one partner wanting cuddles the other sex. Could you go to joint counselling to try and resolve this? Maybe compromise and be more sexual and in return expect more cuddles without sex? Possibly this could be something to discuss.

 

You mentioned in your earlier post about how you've both put a lot of effort into your son, and lost time for each other. This may be true, but it could also just be a great excuse not to be with her. If you've lost interest in your partner using your son as the reason helps mask that.

 

Let me ask you this question. Imagine your son ism't a child but a lot older and tomorrow he is off to college. Do you think "Yippee,brilliant, we'll have all that time together now, to go away, have meals, early nights, etc I can't wait." or does your heart sink as you realise you can no longer hide and you are dreading the thought of all that extra time together?

[Rainbowlove]

Let me ask you this question. Imagine your son ism't a child but a lot older and tomorrow he is off to college. Do you think "Yippee,brilliant, we'll have all that time together now, to go away, have meals, early nights, etc I can't wait." or does your heart sink as you realise you can no longer hide and you are dreading the thought of all that extra time together?

 

Your 10 cents are worth a lot.

 

A lot of what you say makes sense. Thank you.

 

As for your question, it's hard to say. I like the idea of traveling together, I like the idea of us being able to have freedom to explore more of ourselves as a couple, but also as individuals. I imagine us doing nature things together, taking photographs together, going sight seeing etc...

 

I don't feel dread at the thought of spending more time with her. We get along well.

 

But that's a good 14 years away...we need help now. I'm afraid if I keep rejecting her or not meeting her needs, she'll find someone who will, truthfully.

 

It's time for a real heart to heart talk about it with her.

[CrystalShine2011]

Look into the future, 20, 30 years...do you see yourself happy? Is she in the picture or does thoughts of freedom seep in and excite you more?

 

Counseling could help, but it didn't help me.

[xxoo]

Well, I wouldn't be up for morning sex if my kid were sick and I was up at night with him. Bad timing doesn't need to equate to big rejection. Give a hug and a grope, apologize, and beg a rain check. Express shared frustration that you haven't had enough time and energy for each other. And then make a pact to get to bed early together the next possible chance, horny or not, and connect and trust that arousal will happen.

 

Has sex become a power struggle? It stands out as a really bad time for her to initiate, almost as if she's challenging you to prove your love or something. And you wanting to cuddle but not have sex is another "test" of sorts.

[Rainbowlove]

We enjoyed ourselves last night.

 

But it doesn't solve our obvious lack of communication and understanding of how to meet each other's needs without feeling bad about trying to meet our own.

 

I have counseling next week and will address ways to communicate better on my end.

 

I plan to talk to my wife about it as well as soon as we have a day to ourselves.

 

Thank you again everyone. These cycles are hard to break after 20 years together.

[spanz1]

you absolutely CAN retrain your mind to be horny for your wife again. start grabbing her a lot, like her butt, her tits. buy her some lingerie that you really love and think is kinky, and when she wears it, make sure you have good sex with her.

try some role playing....situations YOU feel are sexy/kinky but with HER playing the role. Like she pretends to be a policewoman who just pulled you over for a busted tail light, and forces you to sexually please her due to her dominant position.

 

 

in other words, do sexy things with her, put her into sexy/kinky situations, and you will find yourself starting to get horny for her again when you just think of her. a pavlovian response

[SolG]

Hi Rainbowlove :-) I've recently been doing some reading on Schnarch's Crucible Theory. It immediately made me think of you and your W and this thread.

 

It is an alternative view to attachment theory; it centres around intimacy and differentiation in relationships.

 

If nothing else I thought you might find it interesting. Have attached a link to a general overview type article. Enjoy!

 

Inside the Sexual Crucible

[road]

I chose my wife. I said goodbye to my AP (whom I did love and desire). I don't regret it really.

 

It's been 15 months since ending my affair.

 

I thought I could get back to my wife. I wanted to. God, do I want to. I wish there was a switch I could flip to turn it back on...but I'm losing hope in that.

 

Thank you for your reply. Your words, though probably right, hurt me to hear.

 

We are both still young and attractive. She's late 30's and I'm middle 40's.

 

I'm not sure I'm ready to face it. I have moments when I know it's over...then I dig my heels in for another fight to save it.

 

And I think...I shouldn't have to work this hard at wanting my wife and partner. I blamed my affair for a while, but as that dust settles, I'm starting to see it's more than that...our issues pre-affair are still here.

 

And the lack of desire on my end has been prevalent for years...

 

You are right about knowing the answer, but my heart isn't ready to go there...

 

I watched my son struggle with separation anxiety when I moved out last year and it was heart breaking to witness and my wife was angry and tried to limit the amount of time I could see him...it broke me.

 

Quandary of epic proportions...

 

 

 

You know to state that there are sex problems in a marriage and to leave out in the open post of a thread that you where having an affair banging another woman is dishonest.

 

 

You are not dishonest with us you are dishonest with yourself.

 

 

You need IC to get past having an affair. Then start dating your BW. You can not have attraction without having romance.

[Rainbowlove]

You know to state that there are sex problems in a marriage and to leave out in the open post of a thread that you where having an affair banging another woman is dishonest.

 

 

You are not dishonest with us you are dishonest with yourself.

 

 

You need IC to get past having an affair. Then start dating your BW. You can not have attraction without having romance.

 

You need to read more of my threads. I've been very open and honest about my affair, my counseling, my reconciliation with my wife.

 

But thanks for the support.

 

Have a nice day.

[Rainbowlove]

to leave out in the open post of a thread that you where having an affair banging another woman is dishonest.

 

 

You are not dishonest with us you are dishonest with yourself.

 

 

 

This was in the 2nd post of this thread:

 

It's been 15 months since ending my affair.

 

Where's the dishonesty?

Edited March 12, 2015 by Rainbowlove

[Rainbowlove]

Quite honestly, Road -

 

If you don't have anything supportive to add, I'll just skip over your comments - they are of no value to me.

 

On second thought, I think I'll just block you from my view and a few others.

 

Add Road to ignore list? Check.

Edited March 12, 2015 by Rainbowlove

[Mrs. John Adams]

First of all..Good morning Ms. Rainbowlove! I hope you are having a great day!

 

I have been married 42 years....i will soon be 60. I started going through menopause 15 years ago.

 

Am i as horny as i used to be? no

 

But i do love to be intimate with my husband....and i don't think that is physical. We still have sex every day that he is home...(he travels quite a bit).

Do I NEED it? no But i enjoy the closeness....the intimacy...his smell...his touch.

 

Concentrate on the positive things you love about your wife....the things that you find appealing...the things that attracted you to her in the first place. and maybe ....just hold each other not with the intent to make love...but just to exchange the deep emotional feelings you have for each other through a hug and a touch and a caress....and if it leads to sex...terrific...but if it just conveys the raw emotion of love between you...that's good enough.

 

I know you desire to be with the love of your life...breathe passion back into your love...you can do it!

[Auspecial]

No, just ebbs and flows.

 

Understand her needs, and love the fact that you are the person that she turns to for her needs. It will pay dividends for you both.

 

I'm a retired computer programmer and my department had a saying: "documentation is like sex, when it's good, it's very, very good but even when it's bad, it's still better than nothing".

 

 

 

Neither of you want a broken family. Will it be worth it when you break your family and then embark on a slew of great partners but never the security you have with your wife and never un-breaking your family?

 

 

I'm just saying if physical relations are the only problem, then......don't assume all will be rainbows and light if you have a partner you desire in this way.

[Rainbowlove]

First of all..Good morning Ms. Rainbowlove! I hope you are having a great day!

 

I have been married 42 years....i will soon be 60. I started going through menopause 15 years ago.

 

Am i as horny as i used to be? no

 

But i do love to be intimate with my husband....and i don't think that is physical. We still have sex every day that he is home...(he travels quite a bit).

Do I NEED it? no But i enjoy the closeness....the intimacy...his smell...his touch.

 

Concentrate on the positive things you love about your wife....the things that you find appealing...the things that attracted you to her in the first place. and maybe ....just hold each other not with the intent to make love...but just to exchange the deep emotional feelings you have for each other through a hug and a touch and a caress....and if it leads to sex...terrific...but if it just conveys the raw emotion of love between you...that's good enough.

 

I know you desire to be with the love of your life...breathe passion back into your love...you can do it!

 

Good morning to you, Madam

 

My day is beyond wonderful. Hope yours is as well.

 

Thank you for your supportive voice and strength.

 

We are doing it! We have made a lot of progress in this area since I initially started this thread.

 

IC has helped us both tremendously. Taking time for us as a couple, doing fun things together, writing poetry, dancing in the kitchen with our son, showering together, cuddling naked, and allowing for more healing and open communication has really made the physical aspect more pleasurable and passionate.

 

My life is good. My wife is beautiful. I'm happy. I'm humble. I'm grateful for each day together, for each struggle, for each tear and for each laugh.

 

I'm in this forever.

 

Thank you again

[Rainbowlove]

Neither of you want a broken family.

 

No one's breaking anything.

 

Not now, not ever.

 

Thank you for your words.

[Mrs. John Adams]

oh honey i am so glad to hear that....life can be so hard sometimes...but i always love happy endings.

 

Your wife is a lucky woman to have you...and i don't have to tell you how lucky you are to have her...you already know that.

 

Every day i thank John for loving me enough and for loving me in spite of myself. I tell him how grateful i am for the sacrifice he has made to keep us together...for the gift he has given me....for helping me to carry my bag of rocks;)

[TexasMan68]

Here's a crazy thought...if you both focus on meeting the others needs then your own needs will be met. When couples begin to focus on themselves rather than the other person they become selfish. When they become selfish all they focus on are their needs that aren't being met. You have alot to be greatful for with this woman. For one she didn't send your ass packing after you had your affair. Someone else could be sleeping with your wife in your house and raising your kids part time all because she could have divorced you. See if that will help with your need for a "spark" in your relationship. Start trying!!!