Tips on healing

[autumnnight]

You are correct. For the vast majority of WS's they did not suddenly flip a switch to have the mindset of a cheater, and it will take work and commitment to move away from that mindset. And remorse is not about words, though I believe those can be good to hear. True remorse is backed up with consistent action.

[badkarma2013]

Actually, a WW can have had good character, including humility for most of her life. She can become hard, resentful, bitter selfish over time and allow that hardness to take over and make the choice to cheat, and then after the A, she can then regain that good character. They do, however, have to work hard and let go of all that mental crap that got them in a frame of mind to cheat in the first place.

 

I understand that many would prefer to believe that everyone who cheats is "different" from the rest of society and flawed to begin with, but that isn't the case. I think knowing this can actually help a BS with healing as well, because I don't see how you could heal if you think you unwittingly picked someone who was secretly and inherently evil all along.

 

*******************************************************************

 

Good point....I have been involved in circumstances with people..who in certain situations have gone from (lack of a better word)a Pacifist ...to a stone cold killer in a matter of months...

 

Extreme but true... i can see a Wife who has taught Sunday school for years becoming a complete pornstar for another man in an A...

 

But I Never thought my WW was evil...But the acts she did were so vile and evil to me and many here...I knew would never be able to rid my of the triggers and mind movies...

 

She have regained her character ...I dont know...But she did without me in her life...

[autumnnight]

She have regained her character ...I dont know...But she did without me in her life...

 

And sometimes that is the best way. No matter how much a WW changes for the better, a consequence of the A can be losing a good man forever.

[Confused48]

What a good post. Laying out the process so well. All true for me and my WS as well, except for the last. The same things do excite us both. WS just was offered and accepted to have more of that outside the marriage. A few other comments:

 

The issues I need to get past in this marraige are not only the sexual elements but the ENTIRE PROCESS my WH undertook while things at home were better than they'd been as a whole. Now I'm realizing that he wasn't feeling the same. Even though he sees it now. It's his thought processes also that lead to an A.

 

Getting past the A process includes:

* trying to understand his thoughts and feelings prior to the A.

 

This maybe be impossible. They won't or don't dare tell us the truth.

 

 

* knowing he has a duplicitous streak / nature / character

* accepting his level of selfishness

* acknowledging his nature of entitlement

* knowing I can never meet his need for that level of excitement no matter what I do

 

Knowing is one thing. Accepting it another. I would say the WS must work to overcome these things which are flaws and unnatural. I would be patient as long as there is work and progress but if the WS can not overcome these flaws then I would end the attempt at reconciliation.

 

* knowing I can meet his sexual needs better than any of his previous partners but dealing with the movies that play

* understanding that even if ALL of his sexual needs are met by me, there could be tremendous desires within him that I cannot meet because a) I dont know what they are

b) I am in the "boring" section of his life by default

c) things that make me happy & excited are OPPOSITE to his. Poles apart.

 

 

I mean it's him that didn't want this marraige and I've felt dragged into that feeling.

 

Me too. On Dday I was horrified that our M might be over. Now, I'm dragged to the realization it is only maybe worth saving. More likely no.

[TrustedthenBusted]

Lesser man? No - different man. And two months is more then enough time for a man to know in his heart whether its the sex that is killing him. Trusted - you got past the sex. I guess. Anyway, you say it doesn't torture you anymore so great. You are lucky to avoid the unending agony of picturing your wife with her legs wrapped around another man.

 

To be clear, he is a lesser man. He had to sneak around and hide and lie to spend time with another man's wife. When confronted, he threw HER under the bus. When faced with proof, he called the police to come and protect him from his own choice. When told by my wife that she regretted it, and did not want to be contacted ever again, he insulted her.

 

He showed no courage, no accountability, no responsibility, no humility, no honor and no respect. If that is not a lesser man, I don't know what is.

 

Now... for the two months. It's simply not your place ( or mine ) to say what is enough time for anyone else. So let's just agree that we are both sharing our opinions based our personal experiences, and leave it at that. There is no right answer.

 

As for the visual, those never go away. At least not after 5 years. what's different though, is the agony. It's like trying to remember your 12th birthday party. There is like an idea of it in your mind, but not much detail. And you will never feel those feelings birthday feelings again in full. It's just too far in the past. Same with the "agony."

 

I will say this though, even though it is a fairly sweeping generalization. Out of those of you who divorced right away and espouse the notion of divorce being the only real solution - I really have to say that I see a level of bitterness and anger in your posts that seems to betray your true feelings.

 

 

there just seems to be so much of this "I'm happy now that I divorced that cheating c**t whore b**ch ass slut who ****ed my go***mn brother and ruined my whole ****ing life etc etc etc.

 

What Ive come to understand is that divorce does not equal healed. And I don't know what's better. Reconciled - and by extension, healed. Or divorced and still injured.

 

I only know which one I'm going for.

Edited February 3, 2015 by TrustedthenBusted

[HereNorThere]

Sidebar. I'm a big black dude....with all that implies. I broke up with a girl many years ago, although we remained friends. She told me once that she dated a guy who was totally into her, and was happy, until he found a naked picture of me. ( that she has since destroyed )

 

Once he compared my junk to his, he was devastated, and it destroyed their sex life, and they broke up. Sad, right? That he gave ME that much power, years down the road. The obvious problem was his own insecurity.

.

 

To be fair, she was keeping naked pictures of her ex-partner (you) around and eventually went back to him, so I don't think his insecurity was all that unfounded.

[TrustedthenBusted]

To be fair, she was keeping naked pictures of her ex-partner (you) around and eventually went back to him, so I don't think his insecurity was all that unfounded.

 

Well the picture in question was of me jumping off a huge rock at a lake with about a dozen of our mutual friends there. It was for a laugh, and not some secret love pic she was hanging onto. I just asked her to get rid of it before it ended up on Facebook, lol.

 

Point is, who cares who I was? I'm ancient history. My wife's last boyfriend is now a somewhat of a celebrity, and I imagine pretty well off.

 

Do I give a rat's ass? No. Perhaps she does, but that's on her, not me.

[badkarma2013]

T

 

He showed no courage, no accountability, no responsibility, no humility, no honor and no respect.

 

*****************************************************************

1.As far as Courage,Responsibility,Honor and Respect....Your WW had NONE of these qualities either...when she lied to you and deceived you..

 

****************************************************************

I will say this though, even though it is a fairly sweeping generalization. Out of those of you who divorced right away and espouse the notion of divorce being the only real solution - I really have to say that I see a level of bitterness and anger in your posts that seems to betray your true feelings.

 

*****************************************************************

2. Agreed there is much angst and anger here...For Me divorce did not heal me ..I Healed Myself...There and No triggers,feeling of self doubt or having to try to R with some who lied and betrayed me......

*****************************************************************

What Ive come to understand is that divorce does not equal healed. And I don't know what's better. Reconciled - and by extension, healed. Or divorced and still injured.

 

*****************************************************************

3.There are couples on this site and many other sites who have been in R for YEARS...not months.. YEARS...The BH still triggers ,has doubts and esteem issues...because of the SEXUAL ACTS their WWs did with the OM...

 

We all are injured here by Infidelity ...But if you think that is R (or any kind of marriage) ..You can bloody well keep it...

 

I Never trigger ,or have doubts as i did after D-DAY...To each his own

 

But I have found my OWN way without her and I am the happier for it...

 

Badkarma

Edited February 3, 2015 by badkarma2013

[drifter777]

To be clear, he is a lesser man. He had to sneak around and hide and lie to spend time with another man's wife. When confronted, he threw HER under the bus. When faced with proof, he called the police to come and protect him from his own choice. When told by my wife that she regretted it, and did not want to be contacted ever again, he insulted her.

 

He showed no courage, no accountability, no responsibility, no humility, no honor and no respect. If that is not a lesser man, I don't know what is.

 

Yeah - agree. My post was aimed at responding to your question about a BH being a lesser man for not divorcing. Nothing about the OM in your or any other situation.

 

Now... for the two months. It's simply not your place ( or mine ) to say what is enough time for anyone else. So let's just agree that we are both sharing our opinions based our personal experiences, and leave it at that. There is no right answer.

 

Two months is more than enough time for the initial shock to wear off and allow a man to face the truth about who he is and what he can live with. I'll just keep repeating, if sex and fidelity is something that a man holds as sacred then he will never recover if he doesn't divorce. Even then it will be hard, but avoiding the triggers caused by seeing her face and reclaiming your masculinity and self esteem go a long way toward healing.

 

As for the visual, those never go away. At least not after 5 years. what's different though, is the agony. It's like trying to remember your 12th birthday party. There is like an idea of it in your mind, but not much detail. And you will never feel those feelings birthday feelings again in full. It's just too far in the past. Same with the "agony."

 

This is all well and good. For you. To me - and many, many BH's like me - the detail of those horrible mind-movies stays very sharp and clear with agonizing detail. Even after decades.

 

I will say this though, even though it is a fairly sweeping generalization. Out of those of you who divorced right away and espouse the notion of divorce being the only real solution - I really have to say that I see a level of bitterness and anger in your posts that seems to betray your true feelings.

 

 

there just seems to be so much of this "I'm happy now that I divorced that cheating c**t whore b**ch ass slut who ****ed my go***mn brother and ruined my whole ****ing life etc etc etc.

 

What Ive come to understand is that divorce does not equal healed. And I don't know what's better. Reconciled - and by extension, healed. Or divorced and still injured.

 

I only know which one I'm going for.

 

Who was this aimed at? I didn't divorce my cheating wife because I was a coward and then got tangled up in a family of 3 kids. Horrible mistake but I'm owning it and living with it. And advising other men to avoid this.

 

And why would you ever equate reconciled with healed? I believe most men who are reconciled are staying for the kids or because they fear life alone but are far, far from healed. They are injured whether they reconcile or divorce but, in my opinion, the divorced ones have a better chance to heal and find peace of mind.

[TrustedthenBusted]

 

And why would you ever equate reconciled with healed? I believe most men who are reconciled are staying for the kids or because they fear life alone but are far, far from healed. They are injured whether they reconcile or divorce but, in my opinion, the divorced ones have a better chance to heal and find peace of mind.

 

Drifter, you asked a lot of good questions but it's late so I am going to only tackle one.

 

I equate reconciled with healed because in my opinion you have to have one if you have the other.

 

My wife and I have reconciled. We have committed to staying together and working through any difficulties associated with not only her affair but of several other problem areas in our previous marriage. We are committed to this and to each other. Sure I have my bad days and probably documented some of them here, but even that is part of the healing process.

 

There are a lot of people who are not reconciling even though they are staying together. Not divorcing does not automatically qualify as reconciliation. You are a prime example of this. You aren't in R in my opinion. You are simply still married.

[Lion Heart]

What a good post. Laying out the process so well. All true for me and my WS as well, except for the last. The same things do excite us both. WS just was offered and accepted to have more of that outside the marriage. A few other comments:

 

 

 

This maybe be impossible. They won't or don't dare tell us the truth.

 

 

 

 

Knowing is one thing. Accepting it another. I would say the WS must work to overcome these things which are flaws and unnatural. I would be patient as long as there is work and progress but if the WS can not overcome these flaws then I would end the attempt at reconciliation.

 

 

 

Me too. On Dday I was horrified that our M might be over. Now, I'm dragged to the realization it is only maybe worth saving. More likely no.

 

Hi Confused & everyone,

I am finding this an incredibly educational thread. So thank you all.

 

I know for myself that unless I knew EVERYTHING I could possibly know about the A, the process and explicit individualized steps for WH & Marraige & my "repair" I would have definitely fallen back on BUTT TO THE CURB.

 

Serendipitous as it may sound, I phoned the OW first (after WH disclosure by phone). She was SO angry with WH that she wanted to "dob on him" BIG TIME to me. WH had stopped the relationship 1 month earlier. So all her attempts to get him back didn't work. She was well ticked off. WH hated her (and the story there continues now as she tries to destroy his life). So OW just talked and cried at me for an hour as I took copious, diligent notes!

 

WH thought she'd told me everything (I hid the notes) so he just talked copiously too! OW didn't extrapolate on some things that WH & she did but WH came clean and added the rest (as I know) as he was directed to by his sister for any chance of R.

I have the 4 months of phone records to confirm that WH spoke more of the truth than OW.

 

I gave WH a week of amnesty to tell me anything and everything about anything AT ALL. Because should I EVER find out anything down the track. The way he'd know is that his keys wouldn't fit the locks to the house. There would be NO TALKING, no negotiations, zero, zip, done. So I found out about 2 EAs in the 2 years before and phoned them both too! Hey presto. Neither of us knew what an EA was before I found LS, so Thankyou all again.

 

This is what gave me a picture of his "alter ego" for want of better words. When and how it developed. Each A came around the time, and afterwards, that I started back FT in my career. Yes I believe in some ways he felt emasculated by my ability to only work a few weeks casually then be offered FT work and within a few weeks be offered a permanent position in a place of my choice. I wondered why he couldn't celebrate this with me. But now I know that alone made him feel less of a man because he hadn't been able to provide for the family like I could rapidly. That's another IC point for him although he gets that more now too.

 

Our communication is better than ever now. He's now talking openly about anything, even if he's embarrassed or uncomfortable. That's amazing progress in 7 weeks.

 

but....

Yes my new WILL is being drawn up with codicils attached.

Yes the house will solely be in my name soon.

Absolutely he now has NO access to my monies (I am the major breadwinner and we do half child care). This is addressing his attitude of entitlement very well. He appreciates what he took for granted for years.

I am doing many things now as though going through settlement. Yeah he knows and is fine with it all because he's showing the commitment he needs to from his side to remain married. I'm not using him. As far as I'm concerned, he's used all of me for too long. Tables are now turned. He has to shape up by any means possible or end of. He's only got ONE chance and only THIS time to R. I'm amazed I've given him a second chance and so is he. WH thanks me alot for this and for supporting him. He knows my exit plan in detail and it can activate from any time mid year. He also knows the children agree to my plan but would prefer us to all be together ONLY if we're happy.

 

We've had our first 2 days "happy" which is far sooner than we expected. We've had to talk about very touchy subjects but neither of us had a rise in temper and the discussion ended satisfactorily for both of us. We've got alot to look forward to and know we need to come together in the rough times, now and ahead. That's life.

 

(Not sure if I'll be able to kick my addiction to LS though! )

 

Lion Heart.

[road]

 

There are a lot of people who are not reconciling even though they are staying together. Not divorcing does not automatically qualify as reconciliation. You are a prime example of this. You aren't in R in my opinion. You are simply still married.

 

 

 

Yes many stay married though they never recover.

[autumnnight]

Yes many stay married though they never recover.

 

And after a certain point, they can no longer blame that on the FWS.

[Confused48]

They are injured whether they reconcile or divorce but, in my opinion, the divorced ones have a better chance to heal and find peace of mind.

 

This is a little like when people say, "If my WS did X then I would certainly leave." When it is just speculation and X has not happened to them, they just read about it here and react like they "know" what they would do. You keep telling people to divorce but you won't take your own advice. I'd love to hear from you if a couple years from now you are happily divorced. You can still raise your grandchild. You can set better example for your grandchild than staying in such an unhealthy relationship, not living up to your own standards. You should try divorce before you tout it as the best solution.

[drifter777]

This is a little like when people say, "If my WS did X then I would certainly leave." When it is just speculation and X has not happened to them, they just read about it here and react like they "know" what they would do. You keep telling people to divorce but you won't take your own advice. I'd love to hear from you if a couple years from now you are happily divorced. You can still raise your grandchild. You can set better example for your grandchild than staying in such an unhealthy relationship, not living up to your own standards. You should try divorce before you tout it as the best solution.

Funny how you think you know anything about my situation. I cannot raise my grandson alone, nor can she. If we are not together then my daughter will being an action to revisit the question of custody and residential schedule. Now that my daughter has been through this once - and lost - she knows what she has to do in order to win and I believe she would get joint-custody at a minimum. Then she goes back to being a junkie and my grandson is exposed to that and all the low-life people in her addict life every two weeks. Not going to happen.

 

You can criticize my advice all you want, but don't pretend you know anything about me or Non-Parental Custody law.

[duckrabbit]

Thanks again to everyone who has responded here. I enjoy how one post can kick off an entire series of other posts that are tangential, but interesting nonetheless.

 

 

Anyhow, to respond to some of these:

 

 

drifter777: I would agree with some of the others that two months is not enough time for my head to be glued back on straight. It's still more than a bit crooked, but I am starting to begin to come back a bit. My IC also thinks that this is too short a time frame for me to make any major decisions. I have promised the IC and MC to hold off on any big decisions until at least 6 months out. That should give me enough time to gauge my WWs actions, remorsefulness and ability to put forth effort. I also need to put forth a little more effort on my own part because right now I feel very disconnected. I look at my wife and feel very little at this point in time and I don't like that fact.

 

 

I will also add that the sex isn't the most crucial factor in this for me. It is the emotional aspect, the ability of hers to become a different person and deceive our family for the duration of the A. It is the fact that I gave her so much of myself (her being the 'first' for me of a great many things) and that she threw away that privileged position for the first guy to show her attention. That's the major rub for me, although, of course, it all is more than a little messed up.

 

 

TrustedthenBusted: I have followed your story on here for a while. I'm not sure how you've managed to continue to revive your commitment to your marriage after it all. I don't know, at this point in time, that I have the patience to reassess year after year. I'm not sure that I want to keep asking myself if there has been enough progress for it to be worthwhile for me to remain married on an ongoing basis. In short, I don't know if I am strong enough for the many hurdles ahead of us, but I have to give it a shot before I would feel good about proceeding toward D.

 

 

LionHeart: Thank you for sharing your story. There are definitely similarities and I can totally empathize with how horrible it all is.

 

 

Be_Strong: I, too, feel that my wife has the ability to be a good person and that her wrong choices don't necessarily define her. My WW already seems to have returned to her old self of being fine, paying verbal respects to her wrongdoing, acting lovey dovey and the speed to which she has returned to these ways concerns me and makes me feel like they are inauthentic. She insists that this is not the case, but I remain skeptical. I know it is far far too soon for me to feel at all lovey dovey or intimate, either emotionally or physically.

 

 

gettingstronger: You are definitely dead on about the suicide/mental health aspect of things. I am working through this with my IC and realize that, ultimately, I cannot control her actions in any meaningful sense. My WWs depression plays a huge role in this mess and I'm not sure if it is to the point where it is a crutch for her and excuse to participate as little as possible in our domestic lives.

 

 

I think this is all for now. Thanks again.

[road]

And after a certain point, they can no longer blame that on the FWS.

 

 

 

Yes they can. Definitely when the WW trickled truth her BH.

 

 

Yes recovery not happening can be due to the WS and the BS.

[drifter777]

Thanks again to everyone who has responded here. I enjoy how one post can kick off an entire series of other posts that are tangential, but interesting nonetheless.

 

 

Anyhow, to respond to some of these:

 

 

drifter777: I would agree with some of the others that two months is not enough time for my head to be glued back on straight. It's still more than a bit crooked, but I am starting to begin to come back a bit. My IC also thinks that this is too short a time frame for me to make any major decisions. I have promised the IC and MC to hold off on any big decisions until at least 6 months out. That should give me enough time to gauge my WWs actions, remorsefulness and ability to put forth effort. I also need to put forth a little more effort on my own part because right now I feel very disconnected. I look at my wife and feel very little at this point in time and I don't like that fact.

 

 

I will also add that the sex isn't the most crucial factor in this for me. It is the emotional aspect, the ability of hers to become a different person and deceive our family for the duration of the A. It is the fact that I gave her so much of myself (her being the 'first' for me of a great many things) and that she threw away that privileged position for the first guy to show her attention. That's the major rub for me, although, of course, it all is more than a little messed up.

Bingo! You know yourself well enough to know that the sex isn't going to kill you. That's great - you have a chance to reconcile if you are both willing to do the work.

 

See - it didn't take 6 months for you to make the most important discovery about who you are as a man and what you can accept and live with. Bravo for you!

 

Two months is more than enough time for your fog to clear and recognize who you are and what you are willing to live with. If you just know you will never accept the sexual component then don't waste time trying to R. If your like OP then you need to do what he is doing: wait a few months before making that big decision on reconciliation.

Edited February 4, 2015 by drifter777

[duckrabbit]

Yes and no drifter777. While the sex alone won't destroy our chances there are plenty of other factors involved. The sex was merely the icing on the cake, so to speak.

[drifter777]

Yes and no drifter777. While the sex alone won't destroy our chances there are plenty of other factors involved. The sex was merely the icing on the cake, so to speak.

I truly hope you heal whether you decide to reconcile or divorce. You seem like a really good guy.

 

I understand that, for you, the sex is not a brick wall. To refer to it as "icing on the cake" means you are NOT like me and many other BHs who are tortured by the sex. Knowing which kind of person you are is the key to whether suffering through reconciliation may turn out to be the right thing for you or if divorce gives you the best path toward recovery.

[autumnnight]

Yes they can. Definitely when the WW trickled truth her BH.

 

 

Yes recovery not happening can be due to the WS and the BS.

 

When it's been 10, 15, 20 years....the choice on the BS's part not to heal...is on the BS. My advice in that sitch would be man up and get out or man up and own it.

[drifter777]

When it's been 10, 15, 20 years....the choice on the BS's part not to heal...is on the BS. My advice in that sitch would be man up and get out or man up and own it.

You are entitled to your opinion but pontificating on a subject you have no experience with is pretty hollow.

[TrustedthenBusted]

You are entitled to your opinion but pontificating on a subject you have no experience with is pretty hollow.

 

I actually agree with autumnnight on this one. And I DO have practical experience with it.

 

The BS's that have chosen to reconcile, but are still struggling 10 and 20 years later need to take some accountability and either make the choice to move forward in a positive meaningful way, or to split.

 

Anyone who has read your story knows that you are very very unhappy and feel trapped. And as difficult a choice as you are being forced to make...it's STILL a choice. You CAN forgive. You CAN become a loving partner. You CAN spend the rest of your life working toward meeting eachother's needs and rebuilding your relationship.

 

But you have decided that it's too hard, so you're going to continue to plod along in this unhappy, unhealthy and tenuous partnership for the sake of your grandkid.

 

drifter, is that isn't a choice...what is?

 

I'm not trying to be argumentative either. I REALLY hope you can find peace. But most of that is up to you. And the longer you allow it to elude you, the more it becomes your own responsibility.

 

This was my experience anyway. I literally looked in the mirror and said " T&B, you gotta move forward. So just try to be a loving, caring forgiving husband, and see how that goes." And it's working. Not just for my marriage, but for my sanity, and overall outlook as well. I feel like I'm "back."

 

Good luck man.

[badkarma2013]

When it's been 10, 15, 20 years....the choice on the BS's part not to heal...is on the BS. My advice in that sitch would be man up and get out or man up and own it.

 

I do not always agree with your post...but they do show.. a different view .

 

I can seen the direction you are headed and I (wow) agree..but maybe for different reasons..

 

I have said MANY go into R and IMHO at that Time they THINK they can R with the WS...But many again IMO most ..KNOW da%m well they will never get over..pick one..the sex..being plan B...the lies,deceit ..the betrayal..again pick one or all, it makes no differance...They Know the cant let it go and will never let go of the A...

The R continues maybe ( as many Bhs here....Only speaking from experiance) for months and then years... I believe BOTH parties are living in Hell at this point...and it will continue until one of them can no longer stand the pain....

 

I knew in my soul,I would never be able to R...We were BOTH in hell...why would i continue that situation KNOWING I could never over it...

 

I maned up and filed for D...The BSs you mentioned above ,i believe ,knew at the moment they began R or very shortly after ,they could not over what happened to them and they would never forget it...but continued in false R...

Maybe they stay to punish the WS...anger and pain are great motivators and will give purpose to ones life( pls believe me i know)...but in them you will find no peace..

 

As you stated after years in (false) R...i agree ..The BS needs to man up and move on...

Edited February 5, 2015 by badkarma2013

[autumnnight]

You are entitled to your opinion but pontificating on a subject you have no experience with is pretty hollow.

 

You have no idea what my experiences are because I am not here talking them to death while doing nothing about them.

 

I would say the first basic question someone needs to ask themselves in order to heal is this:

 

Do I WANT to