Recalcitrant WSs

[Confused48]

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I would like to expound on this...there are many here who go into R and at the time of their D-DAY...they KNOW they will never get over the sex,lies,the betrayal...etc...Inside they KNOW they will never let the Affair go...and they realize this at time of R but go forward anyway...

 

Those who have been there WS or BS i would like to hear from you...I think there are more of these types of R? than true attempts to make it work..

 

BK - I'm still confused all these years later. On Dday I was pretty sure I could get over it and recon would work. Wishful thinking?

 

Anyway, as time passes, I more and more think that, no, I will not be able to let go of it. That recon will fail. I'm far from certain about this though.

 

 

I agree and I include myself in this. Had I known how hard it would be and how much I would have to forgive, not sure I would have made the same decision.

 

Then there are the "sunk costs," in for a penny, in for a pound thoughts. If I knew on Dday what I know now, I'd likely not have gone down this road. Finding myself here, now, maybe I stick it out one more day.

 

No good answers. Affairs suck.

[merrmeade]

This is good:

...a critical aspect of forgiving infidelity has to include an agreement to accept the ongoing consequences of your mate’s betrayal. Each time an intrusive thought interrupts a good moment it’s another consequence. Just the mention of the affair partner’s name can be another consequence. Anniversary dates present painful reminders creating yet other consequences. A call or text from the affair partner is another consequence. Even when your marriage is transformed into what you’ve always wanted, betrayal’s consequences continue interrupting your life"

This is true, but what I had hoped for was the understanding spouse who knows what these consequences do to me and who will catch me when I fall.

 

Instead, what I have is a spouse who now says ok, we did that. It is too hard and painful for me to be reminded of the shame of my mistakes every time you experience a bad moment. I cannot rise from that to help you.

 

And to be clear, it's not like I go around being angry or crying all the time. Just the opposite. I never get angry. I go into depression. Articulating whatever the trigger was, it will sort of lift, so I try to tell him. He listens, says nothing, but I can at least get off the couch and we go on. The in-between days seem like progress to him.

 

In IC I realized that the depression is really the anger/grief I didn't fully give vent to at the time. I remember expressing wrathful anger only twice. Instead, I insisted we go the "Not Just Friends" route. He'd be my healer and witness as we worked through the pain period with the support of MC. Hogwash. He was/is not that person, and the scenario was an artifice for us. Furthermore, he did not fully confess all the As, and the truth trickled out slowly over two years. I could not budge from getting it the truth to deal with how I felt and didn't until Nov. 2014. Though the end of trickle truth is the 'real' Dday in actuality, the experience is quite different.

 

Now, what I think is my H's point of view: It's dragged on for 2.5 years. Seeing what happens every time some aspect of the indiscretions comes out, it seemed better to sugar-coat or avoid. As far as he is concerned, the affairs have been long over, in the way distant past. He doesn't think about it or those people any more because of the intense shame it gives him. Being forced to talk about it is torture and, when I need for him to talk about it — even just to learn the truth (e.g., an affair I'd never known about), I was, therefore, torturing him.

 

He is not comparable to Mrs. Adams. The remorse and other-centeredness she describes did not and will not happen for him:

Remorse....not just being sorry for what I had done...feeling in the depths of my soul HIS pain....the pain that I caused. He needed to know that I understood how much he hurt and that I was the one responsible for that pain. Until he was convinced that I took that pain...he feared I did not understand how deeply I had hurt him and that I might do it again. Once he could see that I understood...he could let it go....knowing that I hurt too.

If my H suffers, it is NOT for the pain he caused me, it is for the pain caused by his shame. He feels that 2.5 years has been long enough for my suffering, and he now he expects for me to be understanding of the pain of his shame. He thinks he's done the most he could or should do for me regarding the affairs. He's great when it comes to protecting me from the family member OW, but that's about it.

 

This is what I see and, yes, the question is do I accept this man for what he is with all his limitations and personal needs. He receives and expects to receive. He gives when need is great, and he will be highlighted. In mistakes, it is for others to understand the circumstances that the mistake to be associated with him. He works hard and accepts the situation that life has forced on him here at the end. He feels that making it up to me is doing that - working hard and never cheating again. Finished.

[katielee]

He feels that making it up to me is doing that - working hard and never cheating again. Finished.

 

I could have written this.

It sounds like both our husband are stuck in shame, and this cannot happen for the marriage to recover, or at the very least delays the BS healing. Shame is deadly, it's selfish, it's please don't make me face something uncomfortable. If they only realized they make it all about them when they "aren't you over this yet" us again.

 

However, speaking as a WW, once I got beyond that, I was able to speak with him about my affair without emotion. And THAT is what he needed- me to remain calm and him to express feelings. I am NO LONGER that person. I'm a person with strong values and morals now. So I don't need to shame myself any longer. Once you get to authenticity and integrity, you claim that as your person not "I did a bad thing" as yourself.

 

Had your husband read anything about shame?

[Mrs. John Adams]

Only you know your spouse....so if you really look at your spouse and...know in your heart...that it is not going to get better...if you don't think he/she is not worth the time or effort that reconciliation requires......if you don't still Love him/her.....then my honest opinion is....you are probably wasting your time and postponing the inevitable.

 

If however...you know beyond any doubt you love him/ her...if you are willing to do whatever it takes to keep the marriage in tact...I think you have a good portion of the battle won...and you may as well keep on fighting.

 

It takes one day at a time...one battle at a time to win a war. It takes full on commitment to the cause....if both parties are not willing to do everything possible to save the marriage....then divorce may truly be the most logical answer.

 

John and I committed to staying together and work it through. That does not mean we never doubted or got tired of trying....there were many tears...but ultimately we knew in our hearts that we were worth it.

 

I don't have the answers for others...all I can do is tell you about us. You have to make your own decisions based on your indivual experiences.

Please know that in my opinion...those who divorce are in no way better or smarter than those who try to reconcile...nor do I think that those who reconcile are better than those who divorce.

 

Infidelity in a marriage is the toughest battle to endure. The last thing any of us needs is for others to throw their opinions down our throats and say their way is the only way or the best way.

I support whatever decision you make for you...because at the end of the day....it really doesn't matter what I think. What matters is you and your spouse.

 

I don't want anyone here to think I am judging ....I know how it feels to be judged...it doesn't help, it doesn't solve problems...it simply causes more pain and all of us have enough to deal with...without somebody judging us on a forum.

[merrmeade]

Really beautiful, helpful replies, kl, ms Adams.

 

Yes, for whatever reasons we are both committed, in it for better or worse even if it's mostly worse.

 

The goal probably needs to be redefined and the ideal put aside for a while. We won't be the Adamses or like other couples. I actually think he accepts this better than I.

[Mrs. John Adams]

well only you can know the answer to that...but DO NOT sell yourself short....you never what what life has in store for you. If you both keep trying...one day...it may just all fall into place. Remember...a marriage is between two people...you wont have what i have because you are not me....and that certainly does not mean what you have is less special.....or not as good.

 

PLEASE do not think I believe no one can have what John and i have...I am willing to bet there are MILLIONS who have much better marriages than we have...but what matters is that we are happy.

 

If you and your spouse are happy...are at peace with each other...bless each other...then you are very lucky.

 

Life is not a contest...we just live and do what we can do to the best of our ability. If you are satisfied....then life is good....

[merrmeade]

Had your husband read anything about shame?

No, has your husband? Did it help?

 

I'll look into this.

[katielee]

No but I have- Brene Brown is good and writing down my values and doing some writing about this and the kind of person I want to be, plus tons of time, helped me. I constantly have to go back to forgiving myself.

[merrmeade]

No but I have- Brene Brown is good and writing down my values and doing some writing about this and the kind of person I want to be, plus tons of time, helped me. I constantly have to go back to forgiving myself.

I need to get back to Brene Brown. And writing used to help in the past. Good reminders. THanks.