We did it.

[goodyblue]

I hope things work out well. Congrats on taking action. X

[William]

As a reminder, LoveShack guidelines dictate that postings are to be relevant to the content of the current post and thread started. Our specific policy is posted at the top of this forum:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/other-man-woman/325385-am-i-posting-right-forum-read-here-update-july-30-2013-a#post5090926

 

Specifically:

 

For clarity, content of past postings are *not* to be resurrected in current threads, with the exception of material posted by the thread starter and *only* relevant to the current thread topical material. Hence, cross-talk between other posters about their respective postings in the past is deemed *off-topic* and is disallowed. Additionally, references to past postings of the thread starter which are relevant to the topic shall include a link to the referenced posting as well as a relevant quote from that posting in support of any assertions made or clarifications requested.

 

Members are directed to address the topic and thread starter. Thanks!

Edited to add that fallure to follow guidelines after a clear directive from moderation is always grounds for suspension so let's move on to the now and quit re-hashing the past and arguing aspects not in evidence. Thanks!

Edited February 8, 2015 by William

[Nattie]

My husband knows I left because I wasn't in love with him. During the A I did start to feel guilt for living the double life, but all this "oh he needs to know about MM, you're not living authentically" is nonsense to me. Right or wrong, I don't have to offer up anymore information than I choose. Not everyone needs counseling either. I know I sound like a closed, heartless person who doesn't care about anything, but I'm going to do what's comfortable for me. I wasn't open to MC, because I did not want to fix the marriage. I wanted out, and I got that. I have considered exposing the A and telling him everything to get it over with, but my H is very very passive and non confrontational. You know what he would do? He would say NOTHING to me, and go blame himself, feeling responsible and inadequate. I was with him for well over a decade, I know how he is, and I don't want that for him. It wasn't his fault. It was MINE. My choice, my deception, my affair. I don't want him wondering why he wasn't enough to keep me happy, it didn't have one thing to do with him as a husband.

 

My kids are doing very well, we both get equal time with them, and the only difference they see is that mommy has her own house now. We get along, we talk, and they can see that we're still good friends.

Edited February 8, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[jellybean89]

As a mother, you are appalled at his wife? As a mother, I'm appalled that you judge her when you just ruined your kids intact family. You never waivered in the choice to leave your family, yet she's the selfish mom? Unbelievable.

 

Poor kids, collateral damage on their parents quest for happiness. Oh well. They'll get over it.

 

Sorry so harsh. It just seems crazy to celebrate the end of two families with a "we did it". You can have a new beginning but don't lose sight of the fact that these kids have had their worlds turned upside down. Don't get so wrapped up in your own happiness that you avoid their pain. Divorce is hard enough for kids with two emotionally healthy parents, and you two are still lying and sneaking around. And don't focus so much on BWs horrible mothering skills, instead examine the reality of how your own actions will affect your kids and your relationship with them, years into the future.

 

 

Ditto^^

 

Im the first person to not condone affairs but I do give you credit for ending things with your spouses that takes guts. I do hope you guys come clean tho before its exposed better to find out in private that your wife has been cheating on you then to find out from friends. If he was as good a husband as you say then surely he deserves that from you.

 

Far as your MMs family I wouldn't bet they all dont know if the extended dose the imed is not far behind family's have a way of leaking out juicey info after all..other then that best of luck on the transition and heres hoping your new relashionship ends better then the last..

 

It really doesn't take guts to end a marriage .... so not sure why anyone is giving her 'credit' .... she lied to her spouse, her kids and others. She engaged in an affair while married. She was not honest, she was not loyal and she was not a role model to her children. She could have ended the marriage before entering into a affair (didn't go back and read how long the affair has been going on). The guts would have been to be honest "Honey, I am attracted to someone else. Our marriage isn't what I need right now and I think it is best to separate and see how we feel after 6 months or so. I don't want to cheat on you - I want to honor our vows to each other in regards to fidelity and honesty. I do plan to pursue a relationship with the guy I am attracted to, but I am not asking to separate because of that attraction - I am suggesting separating because our marriage isn't fulfilling to me and possibly to you. I can't promise you that after 6 months I will want to reconcile; I just want to be HONEST with you and I don't want to hurt you." What you did to him was test drive another man while having another man support you (financially, emotionally, physically, etc) and then after making plans with the MM, you then decided to separate. That isn't cool in my book.

 

There's no pleasing everyone. It's not right to stay in a broken marriage just for the kids, but tearing apart their "perfect intact family" is wrong too. Personally I'd rather show them what a loving relationship looks like, not only by my example, but when my H finds someone who loves and appreciates him as well.

 

who said you should stay in a marriage "for the kids"? I didn't read that anywhere. I also don't recall reading about your "perfect intact family". Obviously, it wasn't perfect because if it was, you wouldn't have cheated. You seem to do a lot of re-writing history about your marriage to make it seem like it was this horrible experience that you just had to get away from.

 

People divorce every day. Divorce isn't taboo. It isn't something unheard of. It isn't something that only happens to "those" type of people. If a person isn't happy in their marriage, they should discuss their concerns with their spouse and see if both are willing to make changes. If the other spouse doesn't want to make changes or doesn't think anything is wrong, then the spouse who is unhappy can either stay, knowing things will not change or leave. It really IS that simple. I doubt there is a person alive who doesn't know someone who has divorced. I doubt there is a child alive who doesn't have a friend with divorced parents.

 

Parents can divorce amicably. Happens all the time. There is nothing amicable about cheating. There is no integrity or respect in cheating.

 

No marriage is perfect. No relationship is perfect. But once you chose dishonesty, disrespect and cheating....all bets are off.

 

It is evident you hate the wife - a woman who has done NOTHING to you. So what if she yelled at her husband --- I bet you he has yelled at her too. I bet she would yell even louder if she found out how her husband cheated on her for years. I guess you expect her to just be kind and sweet once she finds out how he has emotionally abused her for years (yes, cheating is abusive). Sounds like you are happy that you "won" the cheating MM.

 

May you two have a wonderful life. Hopefully, one day, the others in your life will heal from the damage that was done by the infidelity. Relationships will be forever changed, good or bad, right or wrong. But I wouldn't go so far as rate this relationship a success until everyone has healed and there is no more lying and dishonesty.

[goodyblue]

My husband knows I left because I wasn't in love with him. During the A I did start to feel guilt for living the double life, but all this "oh he needs to know about MM, you're not living authentically" is nonsense to me. Right or wrong, I don't have to offer up anymore information than I choose. Not everyone needs counseling either. I know I sound like a closed, heartless person who doesn't care about anything, but I'm going to do what's comfortable for me. I wasn't open to MC, because I did not want to fix the marriage. I wanted out, and I got that. I have considered exposing the A and telling him everything to get it over with, but my H is very very passive and non confrontational. You know what he would do? He would say NOTHING to me, and go blame himself, feeling responsible and inadequate. I was with him for well over a decade, I know how he is, and I don't want that for him. It wasn't his fault. It was MINE. My choice, my deception, my affair. I don't want him wondering why he wasn't enough to keep me happy, it didn't have one thing to do with him as a husband.

 

My kids are doing very well, we both get equal time with them, and the only difference they see is that mommy has her own house now. We get along, we talk, and they can see that we're still good friends.

 

I got the same spiel when my guy left his ex. I have six kids. One in med school, one in elementary ed, one married happily for a few years, the rest are in middle school and grade school. They are SO much better off. As for my guy, his kids are adults and are great, although they have less to do with their mother because she is angry and bitter... also a drunk. So all in all, it was better for pretty much everyone. Because I am happy my kids are happy.

Edited February 8, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[stellamaria]

Good luck OP.

 

I had an affair a few years ago to get out of my horrible marriage. There was violence in mine, my ex-H was a brute, and he even went to prison for GBH against me. Still probably not an excuse in itself to turn me into a cheat, but I needed to flee the marriage for a long time before I actually did. My AP was also married. His marriage was stale (he said) and he'd actually left to move 4 hours away for work, so only saw his wife every couple of months or so. Both were happy with that until I came along. He wanted to leave to be with me, she found out I was a threat to her and tried to win him back.

 

In the end we did leave our respective spouses and I justified this by saying his marriage was stale and he was all but left anyway (he had told me this), and mine was definitely toxic and I've never regretted leaving mine.

 

But... after 3 years, my ex left me and went back to his wife. The wife he had claimed for so long he didn't love, couldn't be with. She even behaved atrociously - e.g. she told the police he'd raped her, and told all of her and his family that, and didn't speak to him at all for 2 years, nor allow their children to see him. But now they have remarried.

 

It's probably an ego boost that he will leave his wife for you. But remember that same ego boost can be given to someone else, and that leaves big damage to your self esteem and self worth.

 

I'm not trying to be negative, just telling what happened to me. I hope you both make a good go of it - two people being happy together is better than two couples being unhappy. I felt horrific guilt over destroying my ex-AP's family, not worth the confidence boost of him "choosing" me. But he never once showed remorse, even when he never spoke to his own children for 2 years. All of that probably contributed to the consequent end of the relationship.

[Timshel]

Aaahhh, if only life were straight-forward, crystal clear. That every choice we make we knew at the time of choosing was right and perfect, beyond correction.

Mysterious, surprising and unfricking relentless. This is life and I see that you are adjusting and correcting as you go.

I am glad that you are being brave and choosing to embrace being lucid and taking responsibility for your choices. Honesty is good and will never, ultimately, do harm. You may have some crap beat out of you for telling the truth but you will never regret it.

Children must be handled differently than adults but that does not mean they are unable to know the truth, delicately.

If his BW is unstable and mean, all costs must be taken to insure the well-being of the children. I believe you. Some people are just nasty, lost and it has nothing to do with infidelity.

That she is a betrayed spouse does not automatically make her a saint or good person.

You must make decisions that are best for the long-term outcome of all the children involved first, then the adults.

Be as truthful as you can be within a time-frame that is considerate to all involved.

You are not destined to fail but you do have a weight that is heavier than the easier road you could have followed.

Best wishes to you all, especially the kids. Your relationship is not destined to be horrible, just hard. It can be better for everyone if you are careful, considerate and patient.

Remember, it is impossible that a person is your "soul mate," your "other half" if one half doesn't agree.

 

It would be prudent for all who feel betrayed in a relationship the keep that in mind.

[bathtub-row]

It DOES take courage to leave an unhappy marriage. Just look around at all the miserable marriages and you have your answer. They are too numerous to measure. Most people choose misery over courage.

 

Your children will be fine. Just don't talk to them about the divorce process or about your ex-spouse. They don't need to hear it. My grown son will tell anyone that he does not want his dad and I to be married and he was never sad over our divorce. Every year, a teacher would tell me that they had no idea he was a child of divorce. I didn't understand what a compliment this was until later in life. You can do the same for your kids and his. Don't treat them like they're somehow crippled because of a divorce.

[TigerLilly78]

Ditto^^

 

 

 

It really doesn't take guts to end a marriage .... so not sure why anyone is giving her 'credit' .... she lied to her spouse, her kids and others. She engaged in an affair while married. She was not honest, she was not loyal and she was not a role model to her children. She could have ended the marriage before entering into a affair (didn't go back and read how long the affair has been going on). The guts would have been to be honest "Honey, I am attracted to someone else. Our marriage isn't what I need right now and I think it is best to separate and see how we feel after 6 months or so. I don't want to cheat on you - I want to honor our vows to each other in regards to fidelity and honesty. I do plan to pursue a relationship with the guy I am attracted to, but I am not asking to separate because of that attraction - I am suggesting separating because our marriage isn't fulfilling to me and possibly to you. I can't promise you that after 6 months I will want to reconcile; I just want to be HONEST with you and I don't want to hurt you." What you did to him was test drive another man while having another man support you (financially, emotionally, physically, etc) and then after making plans with the MM, you then decided to separate. That isn't cool in my book.

 

 

 

.

 

 

Oh I know and I totally agree but I guess its better its over at least for the poor husband I feel bad for him as it sounds hes going to have to hear about the affair from a grapevine rather then her just confess and be upfront the OPs attitude in the few posts after mine are appalling imo and quite self centered.

 

Then to justify not telling the husband because "hes very unconfrontational" so what he walks away from you and says nothing what do you want the man to say? "oh its ok you made me look like like a fool instead of just being honest no worries you slept with another man thats fine hun"..im sorry but you dont deserve closure or comfort from him op..

 

I dont know its all very cake eater mentality but then again most affairs are from what ive seen..end of the day MMs wife was the mother of their kids and that should be respected on some level by everyone for the sake of the kids.

 

Far as the kids the op will never replace their mom no matter how much better of a mom she "thinks she might be" those kids are suffering believe me I came from a broken home both parents fought alot but still even with that said none of the "stand ins" that tried to take my fathers place after the divorce ever came anywhere near him in my eyes. So I think she might find it a bit harder to ride in and save the day for them as she thinks it will be..sorry op if this sounds harsh but I also dont sugar coat..

 

Edit to add I will never know how some one can feel secure getting into a relashionship with some one who cheated with in a marriage the odds of them doing it again once things start not going their way would be to grate for my liking..

[Popsicle]

Well, MM and I both left our spouses. He left before I did, as he's staying with family for now, but I found a place to rent and followed soon behind as promised. We had no DDay, YET, because we aren't openly together around our circle of friends yet, but once word gets out, pieces of the puzzle will come together, and it'll be pretty obvious how long this has been going on. We're both very happy in our decision, but there are things that you cannot prepare for, and have to deal with as they come at you.

 

Kids. I knew they would be upset, and mine are actually taking things very well (I credit that to the peaceful, drama free split between H and I) but I miss them terribly when they're with him. MM's kids are angry. Their mother has initiated multiple fights in front of them, and has intentionally involved them in ways that as a mother, really appalls me. She doesn't know about me, if she did I can't imagine what she'd subject them to. Children don't deserve to have to deal with adult issues, and these kids really have no idea what a loving, happy home feels like. And spare me the comments on how I created this unhappy situation entirely, because that's far from true.

 

Change in general. I don't miss H, but I do miss my home. It's a lot to deal with. Whether change is good, or bad it can be a hard adjustment.

 

Family input. MM's extended family is thrilled, and that's an understatement. I've met a few of them and they are overjoyed to see him so happy, but on the other hand, mine want nothing to do with me right now.

 

It's only been a few weeks, we have a very long way to go, but not once have we doubted our love, OR that this was the right thing to do. One day at a time we'll get there. Best of luck and well wishes to everyone out there. Whether you're NC, still in an A, or in the process of taking the next step, we all deserve happiness.

 

Congratulations on both of you getting out of a rut.

[Artie Lang]

just curious... in going through your previous threads, you mention that in the beginning this affair started only as "just sex" and that you had no intention of leaving your spouse.

 

what changed for you to make such momentous decision?

 

furthermore, i think once people start putting things together, their opinions about your relationship might very well change. are you ready for that? do you ever plan on revealing the true nature of your relationship?

 

 

the only positive, if any, is that you two released your spouses, but the betrayal is still there.

 

 

good luck with that.

[TigerLilly78]

Yes, but I know in the long run he will be better off. I asked him if he wanted a marriage out of pity over love and he said absolutely not.

OMG I just saw this you asked him if he wanted your pity as you slept with another man behind his back?

[Hobbes' wagon]

Your actions and the actions of "your" married "man" have been deplorable and severly lacking in empathy. I recommend you both come clean to your spouses and both of you should enter individual therapy to address your emotional issues. Get the kids into therapy as well, they'll need it in any case.

[violet1]

Ditto^^

 

 

 

It really doesn't take guts to end a marriage .... so not sure why anyone is giving her 'credit' .... she lied to her spouse, her kids and others. She engaged in an affair while married. She was not honest, she was not loyal and she was not a role model to her children. She could have ended the marriage before entering into a affair (didn't go back and read how long the affair has been going on). The guts would have been to be honest "Honey, I am attracted to someone else. Our marriage isn't what I need right now and I think it is best to separate and see how we feel after 6 months or so. I don't want to cheat on you - I want to honor our vows to each other in regards to fidelity and honesty. I do plan to pursue a relationship with the guy I am attracted to, but I am not asking to separate because of that attraction - I am suggesting separating because our marriage isn't fulfilling to me and possibly to you. I can't promise you that after 6 months I will want to reconcile; I just want to be HONEST with you and I don't want to hurt you." What you did to him was test drive another man while having another man support you (financially, emotionally, physically, etc) and then after making plans with the MM, you then decided to separate. That isn't cool in my book.

 

 

 

who said you should stay in a marriage "for the kids"? I didn't read that anywhere. I also don't recall reading about your "perfect intact family". Obviously, it wasn't perfect because if it was, you wouldn't have cheated. You seem to do a lot of re-writing history about your marriage to make it seem like it was this horrible experience that you just had to get away from.

 

People divorce every day. Divorce isn't taboo. It isn't something unheard of. It isn't something that only happens to "those" type of people. If a person isn't happy in their marriage, they should discuss their concerns with their spouse and see if both are willing to make changes. If the other spouse doesn't want to make changes or doesn't think anything is wrong, then the spouse who is unhappy can either stay, knowing things will not change or leave. It really IS that simple. I doubt there is a person alive who doesn't know someone who has divorced. I doubt there is a child alive who doesn't have a friend with divorced parents.

 

Parents can divorce amicably. Happens all the time. There is nothing amicable about cheating. There is no integrity or respect in cheating.

 

No marriage is perfect. No relationship is perfect. But once you chose dishonesty, disrespect and cheating....all bets are off.

 

It is evident you hate the wife - a woman who has done NOTHING to you. So what if she yelled at her husband --- I bet you he has yelled at her too. I bet she would yell even louder if she found out how her husband cheated on her for years. I guess you expect her to just be kind and sweet once she finds out how he has emotionally abused her for years (yes, cheating is abusive). Sounds like you are happy that you "won" the cheating MM.

 

May you two have a wonderful life. Hopefully, one day, the others in your life will heal from the damage that was done by the infidelity. Relationships will be forever changed, good or bad, right or wrong. But I wouldn't go so far as rate this relationship a success until everyone has healed and there is no more lying and dishonesty.

I have to disagree with you. Yes, of course divorce happens everyday, but it doesn't make it any easier. Lets face it, even if a relationship is unsatisfactory, it's still very difficult to leave. Especially when children are involved. It's honestly easier to cheat than it is to leave. I give the OP kudos for leaving.

 

 

In a perfect world, everyone leaves before they cheat, but unfortunately that's not always how life works. Sometimes people need an extra push to leave. I'm not saying it's right. Obviously it's a passive aggressive trait that's going to follow the OP in her relationship with the MM if it's not worked on. Therapy can help prevent the same thing from happening in their future. I honestly think as long as the OP and the MM tread very slowly, they'll be just fine.

[Sub]

Also reading your past threads, I'd just advise to tread lightly with the MM. You hear it all the time: leave for yourself, not for him. The situation has just seemed to be pretty unpredictable/volatile. Attempted NC...Calling him an addiction...you were "stupid" for doing it....your H was "perfect" and you loved him to now you pity him. I think you may need to find your own peace before banking on one with the MM.

[ladydesigner]

As a mother, you are appalled at his wife? As a mother, I'm appalled that you judge her when you just ruined your kids intact family. You never waivered in the choice to leave your family, yet she's the selfish mom? Unbelievable.

 

Poor kids, collateral damage on their parents quest for happiness. Oh well. They'll get over it.

 

Sorry so harsh. It just seems crazy to celebrate the end of two families with a "we did it". You can have a new beginning but don't lose sight of the fact that these kids have had their worlds turned upside down. Don't get so wrapped up in your own happiness that you avoid their pain. Divorce is hard enough for kids with two emotionally healthy parents, and you two are still lying and sneaking around. And don't focus so much on BWs horrible mothering skills, instead examine the reality of how your own actions will affect your kids and your relationship with them, years into the future.

 

Yup totally agree with the above assessment.

[Be_Strong]

Well, MM and I both left our spouses. He left before I did, as he's staying with family for now, but I found a place to rent and followed soon behind as promised. We had no DDay, YET, because we aren't openly together around our circle of friends yet, but once word gets out, pieces of the puzzle will come together, and it'll be pretty obvious how long this has been going on. We're both very happy in our decision, but there are things that you cannot prepare for, and have to deal with as they come at you.

 

Kids. I knew they would be upset, and mine are actually taking things very well (I credit that to the peaceful, drama free split between H and I) but I miss them terribly when they're with him. MM's kids are angry. Their mother has initiated multiple fights in front of them, and has intentionally involved them in ways that as a mother, really appalls me. She doesn't know about me, if she did I can't imagine what she'd subject them to. Children don't deserve to have to deal with adult issues, and these kids really have no idea what a loving, happy home feels like. And spare me the comments on how I created this unhappy situation entirely, because that's far from true.

 

Change in general. I don't miss H, but I do miss my home. It's a lot to deal with. Whether change is good, or bad it can be a hard adjustment.

 

Family input. MM's extended family is thrilled, and that's an understatement. I've met a few of them and they are overjoyed to see him so happy, but on the other hand, mine want nothing to do with me right now.

 

It's only been a few weeks, we have a very long way to go, but not once have we doubted our love, OR that this was the right thing to do. One day at a time we'll get there. Best of luck and well wishes to everyone out there. Whether you're NC, still in an A, or in the process of taking the next step, we all deserve happiness.

This entire post comes off as you trying to convince yourself that you've made the right decision. Your doubt flies off the page between your pseudo-confident statements.

 

I have no opinion on whether you made the "right" decision. But I do know it was a very difficult decision where any route you chose would involve strong negatives. "we are both happy with our decision". A lie. If true you would be a sociopath. At best, this should have been a very difficult decision that you made begrudgingly knowing that it would cause a lot of pain to others, but in the end it was the right move. If you were forced to choose between somebody killing your dog or killing your child, you would rightfully choose "killing your dog" but you wouldn't say afterwards that you were "happy" about the decision you made. Don't gloss over the difficult choice you've made and try to justify it after the fact by claiming you're "happy" with it. A decision can still be the right one without being happy about it.

 

"Kids...mine are actually taking things pretty well." Be careful with this. Your kids are probably not doing as good as you think. Don't be so desperate to justify your decision that you convince yourself the kids are ok.

 

"And spare me the comments on how I created this unhappy situation entirely, because that's far from true." Very well may be true, but you're statement here shows that you are racked with guilt and doubt about whether it is true.

 

"I don't miss H" Doesnt seem possible. This is a person that you've described as a great guy and who you've spent a huge amount of time with. Even if the romantic element wasn't there, that doesn't mean you wouldn't miss his familiar presence. Again, it's perfectly ok to say, "I miss my husband." It's a natural thing and doesn't mean you've made the wrong decision. You seem to be so desperate to justify your decision, that you're afraid to acknowledge certain things.

 

"but not once have we doubted our love" Your need to include this statement is also telling. You are either lying or you've shut off the analytical portion of your brain. Healthy relationships contain doubts. You can still be in love with a person and have had doubts. It's how our (normal) brains operate. A thought of doubt enters our mind and then we internally determine if the thought is justified or not. It is perfectly natural for you to think, "do I really love this guy or is it just crazy hormones, or lust, or me fulfilling my needs through him, etc.?" You would then work through the other possibilities in your mind and either come to the conclusion that you really do love him or you don't really love him. If that conversation hasn't played out in your mind, then you are squarely in a fog. Regardless, you including the "no doubt" statement in your OP shows an insecurity to me.

 

"Or that this was the right thing to do". Really?!? For such a huge life-changing decision, you've never once doubted that this was the right thing to do? This was the most alarming thing in your post. You are either trying incredibly hard to convince yourself and others that this was the right decision, or you are one of the most thoughtless people I've ever come across. A decision like this should have been something you toiled over. How can a normal person not have the usual doubts about whether they are doing the right thing?

 

You need to start being honest with yourself (you're even being dishonest about your own level of honesty). This was a tough choice. There's all sorts of negatives and people will be hurt. There's all sorts of ways that this could not work out in the future. In fact, you could end up regretting your choice. But, you've made the tough choice and now you a should be aware of the problems and obstacles standing in your way and do everything you can to make sure your choice is the right one.

 

Here's the thing. We don't get the benefit of a time machine. Nobody will ever know if you would have been happier with choice A or choice B. Maybe leaving your husband and going to MM will be the worst thing you ever did and had you stayed with your husband your life would have been infinitely better. But, maybe leaving your husband and being with MM will end up being the best decision you ever made and both you and your husband and kids will all be so much happier than if you had stayed. All you can do now is work towards making your decision the right one. Do everything in your power to make sure that you make the most out of your current life path. Don't wash over your current problems and upcoming problems in order to justify your choice. Confront and embrace your challenges head on so that your prediction of being happier on this path is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Be_Strong

[Realist3]

Best of luck on your new journey, OP; I hope it works out well.

Edited February 10, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator