narcissist girlfriend

[male483]

Would anyone be willing to talk to me on private message whos gone through this with a narcissist girlfriend. I've struggled for so long with her and its drained me to a point where i havent got a clue whether its me or her or whats going on and really need some help.

[Downtown]

Male, private messaging is not permitted until you've been here a bit longer and written more posts. This is why other members are unable to PM you and you are unable to privately message them. For what it's worth, I agree with you that you're describing the classic warning signs for NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder). And, as Ebelskiver said (Jan 30 post) in your "Sorry for Swearing" thread, you also are describing some red flags for BPD (Borderline PD).

 

If your GF does have strong narcissistic traits, her also having strong BPD traits would not be unusual. On the contrary, BPD is very common among narcissists. A recent large-scale study of nearly 35,000 American adults found that 41% of the female narcissists also had co-occurring full-blown BPD. See Table 3 at 2008 Study in JCP.

 

If you would like to learn how to spot the red flags for BPD, I would suggest you take a look at my list at 18 BPD Warning Signs. Like Ebelskiver, I suspect you will find some of those signs to sound very familiar. If so, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss it with you. Take care, Male.

Edited February 16, 2015 by Downtown

[male483]

Hi Downtown,

 

Could I ask though its gone on for so long Ive actually started thinking its my fault and maybe me whos sick because she constantly told me it was all my fault. We are no longer together and id love to just sit here and say it wasnt my fault so i could move on but everyday I wake up wondering if its me. I keep thinking back to past arguments where i may have been a bit needy like for instance once i complained that she was sick one day and i drove to hers and looked after her, a few days later i caught her bug and couldnt move from bed when she was fine, i asked her to drive to mine and... she said shes not wasting her day sitting in my bedroom. I obviously got annoyed by this and we argued. She never apologises and whatever she seems to call me she has no empathy or guilt after. Also its strange what i cant quite figure out is shes fine with everyone else, it seems to be just me but then i also cant help noticing that she has no friends bar 1 who she acts completley different with (ive even had msgs off her friend saying IM upsetting HER, yet this is beause i walked out after shes thrown an object at me, its like shes telling them a soft side to the story and to me putting on this horible front), she says she isnt ill doesnt need help and is just defensive with me because ive made her that way but again i can think back to times when we was dating she already laughed at me and said 'god your needy' just because i asked if she fancied doing something. i keep telling myself she has no friends, she litterally spends time with her mum as her dad left when she was younger (which ive thought might be the reason behind her defenses and acts of 'i dont care' when you know she does), she also was having councelling before i met her but whenever i ask 'what for' she replies 'just learning to deal with things better because i overthink things'.

 

Just in my head for over a year ive tried to be so many different ppl, tried sitting quietly, tried going out the way, tried to never ask for anything but doesnt work. Whenever i followed her around and did things on her terms it was fine, soon as i asked for anything id say 75% of the time she'd be mad at me for wanting it, whether it be sex or something as simple as a massage or day out to somewhere i chose. sometimes she'd do it but most of the time if i said 'lets go to ikea i need a desk for work' shed say its a waste of her day so we ended up doing her things instead or id go alone, as i say sometimes she'd go but i hated the 'waste of time' line i always seemed to get and if i ever then said 'a relationship is 50/50 or meant to be' shed go mad and call me names like 'mardy, pathetic, etc'. I cant go back to her but just want to convince myself im ok, i have loads of friends, great family and every1 of my exes still friends on facebook and still likes me in 1 way or another and says i was a great boyfriend, all her exes cannot stand her. Every argument always ended the same way, silent treatment until i apologised then she'd just say 'you dont know me at all if you think i wouldnt contact you' and 'you never listen' but to me i just kept thinking that im a good listener its just she doesnt seem to be saying anything to me.

 

Male, private messaging is not permitted until you've been here a bit longer and written more posts. This is why other members are unable to PM you and you are unable to privately message them. For what it's worth, I agree with you that you're describing the classic warning signs for NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder). And, as Ebelskiver said (Jan 30 post) in your "Sorry for Swearing" thread, you also are describing some red flags for BPD (Borderline PD).

 

If your GF does have strong narcissistic traits, her also having strong BPD traits would not be unusual. On the contrary, BPD is very common among narcissists. A recent large-scale study of nearly 35,000 American adults found that 41% of the female narcissists also had co-occurring full-blown BPD. See Table 3 at 2008 Study in JCP.

 

If you would like to learn how to spot the red flags for BPD, I would suggest you take a look at my list at 18 BPD Warning Signs. Like Ebelskiver, I suspect you will find some of those signs to sound very familiar. If so, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss it with you. Take care, Male.

Edited February 16, 2015 by male483

[male483]

She kind of changed how i view relationships, before id do anything for them and put off important things i needed to do for them but because she didnt do it back if i got annoyed she'd say 'you live in a fairy land if you think thats normal relationship' me doing anything for her like driving up when she was sick shed see that as needy and clingy. I never asked where she was and we would see each other maybe 3 times a week, i can be a bit clingy but i just never saw me doing things she liked as me being needy. It kind of turned me into a guy im not, she'd ask for a massage and id say 'nah cant be bothered' just because i knew that would make her want it more, i got sick of playing this game and just resorted back to the original me but soon as i did things went bad again. Its like soon as she knew i was in love and wasnt going anywhere she pushed me away, soon as i acted distant and didnt care she pulled me back in. Felt like a constant game and i never felt relaxed, felt not good enough, felt like i was being sensitive, felt stuff id never felt with anyone else before and it just ruined my self esteem.

Is it really needy and clingy to just be there for someone you love? i started thinking 'do i really have to act like an uncaring idiot just to get woman interested'

[SycamoreCircle]

OP, I've skimmed over all your threads. Right now you're doing a lot of processing, which is perfectly normal. I'm almost a year out of a relationship with a girlfriend who cheated on me and became narcissistic in behavior and I still question my own involvement. Are you familiar with the term "gaslighting?" Essentially, it's a kind of tactic narcissists and other people with PD's use to disorient the partner. You're just starting to separate reality from chimera.

 

I'm also wary of the replies to your posts that label you spineless. I had a wonderful, loving, straightforward relationship that soured seemingly overnight. Of course, I had to feel responsible. Here was a loving, caring person now angry, closed-off and changed---I must be at fault for something!

 

Your partner's behavior was identical to mine. I ended up snooping her computer and discovered the truth which I exposed to her friends and family.

 

I know it won't do any good, we all have to work our way through the grieving and healing process, but I strongly encourage you to not dwell on your part in this. If you aided this somehow, it was through your uprightness, your goodness, your love and your trust.

 

Especially with the child involved, this is a sad irrevocable loss. Move on. It's all you can do. I'm sorry that this happened to you. It is the worst kind of ending to a relationship. A year later and I know that my ex still claims to be angry at me. In reality, the anger is at herself. I hope that someday she will realize that and address it. I don't think these sort of people can ever live truly happy lives until they deal with their issues.

[elaine567]

It seems that nowadays just about everyone's ex partner is a narcissist.

They bring out lists and show us the traits that the partner exhibits and then some will agree that the partner is a narcissist. Ta da.

 

Narcissism is a spectrum disorder, every one of us here will exhibit narcissistic traits, it doesn't mean we all suffer from narcissistic personality disorder.

Many other personality disorders run concurrently too, but we all tend nowadays to lump anyone with any personality that we do not like or that we do not get on with as a "narcissist".

 

I don't know whether this girl is truly a narcissist or just someone struggling out of her depth and taking all her anxieties and insecurities out on you - I note you have a 2 year old.

 

The big thing here is that YOU ARE NO LONGER TOGETHER and that is what you need to concentrate on.

YOU need to get to a place where you realise, even if she is "normal", she has a personality disorder, she is a psychopath or she is even psychotic,

that HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU and your life NOW.

 

YOU need to sort out YOU, not try and diagnose her, because diagnosing her is a fruitless exercise.

YOU need to find out what is it about you that attracted and nurtured this toxic relationship?

YOU need to learn how to set your boundaries so that you are not fair game to any other predator or toxic personality out there.

YOU need to realise this is no longer about HER, this is now about YOU.

 

Watch this -

 

Read this - 21 Tips to Stop Being a People-Pleaser | Psych Central

[SycamoreCircle]

It seems that nowadays just about everyone's ex partner is a narcissist.

They bring out lists and show us the traits that the partner exhibits and then some will agree that the partner is a narcissist. Ta da.

 

Narcissism is a spectrum disorder, every one of us here will exhibit narcissistic traits, it doesn't mean we all suffer from narcissistic personality disorder.

Many other personality disorders run concurrently too, but we all tend nowadays to lump anyone with any personality that we do not like or that we do not get on with as a "narcissist".

 

I don't know whether this girl is truly a narcissist or just someone struggling out of her depth and taking all her anxieties and insecurities out on you - I note you have a 2 year old.

 

The big thing here is that YOU ARE NO LONGER TOGETHER and that is what you need to concentrate on.

YOU need to get to a place where you realise, even if she is "normal", she has a personality disorder, she is a psychopath or she is even psychotic,

that HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU and your life NOW.

 

YOU need to sort out YOU, not try and diagnose her, because diagnosing her is a fruitless exercise.

YOU need to find out what is it about you that attracted and nurtured this toxic relationship?

YOU need to learn how to set your boundaries so that you are not fair game to any other predator or toxic personality out there.

YOU need to realise this is no longer about HER, this is now about YOU.

 

Watch this -

 

Read this - 21 Tips to Stop Being a People-Pleaser | Psych Central

I agree with some of what you're saying, but the OP is still grieving. A lot of what he's doing is customary and natural. I also think you're applying a very general treatment to what he went through. Yes, many people claim NPD, but I think the OP's partner exhibited exceptional qualities of NPD. And as someone who went through a similar ordeal, I think the signs that people are capable of this behavior are oftentimes deeply disguised. Even the narcissist is not aware that something like this could happen. As my ex said to me, "This is the most emotionally disastrous thing I've ever experienced."

 

The child is not his is my understanding.

 

We're witnessing a man still in shock. Patience is necessary.

[Downtown]

Its gone on for so long Ive actually started thinking its my fault and maybe me whos sick because she constantly told me it was all my fault.

Male, because I've never met either of you, I cannot tell you who was at fault in your relationship. What I can tell you, however -- as Sycamore has done -- is that the behaviors you describe are warning signs for two personality disorders (PDs) that are notorious for making the abused partners so confused that they often feel like they may be losing their minds. Of the 157 disorders listed in the APA's diagnostic manual (DSM-5), only three of them -- BPD, narcissism, and sociopathy -- are notorious for having that "crazymaking" effect on the abused partners. Of those three disorders, BPD is by far the one most associated with this "crazymaking" effect on partners.

 

This is why I suggested that, in addition to learning the red flags for narcissism, you also read about BPD red flags at the links I provided -- in case most of them also sound very familiar. At issue is whether your exGF is exhibiting warning signs for those two disorders at a strong and persistent level. Not having met the young woman, I cannot answer that question for you.

 

I nonetheless can assist you in learning how to spot the warning signs. One objective is to help give you a sense of closure by enabling you to judge, for yourself, whether you were seeing many strong warning signs. Another objective is to help you learn how to protect yourself -- going forward -- by being able to avoid becoming mired in toxic relationships with women exhibiting strong warning signs.

[pie2]

It seems that nowadays just about everyone's ex partner is a narcissist.

They bring out lists and show us the traits that the partner exhibits and then some will agree that the partner is a narcissist. Ta da.

 

The big thing here is that YOU ARE NO LONGER TOGETHER and that is what you need to concentrate on.

YOU need to get to a place where you realise, even if she is "normal", she has a personality disorder, she is a psychopath or she is even psychotic,

that HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU and your life NOW.

 

YOU need to sort out YOU, not try and diagnose her, because diagnosing her is a fruitless exercise.

YOU need to find out what is it about you that attracted and nurtured this toxic relationship?

YOU need to learn how to set your boundaries so that you are not fair game to any other predator or toxic personality out there.

YOU need to realise this is no longer about HER, this is now about YOU.

 

Watch this -

 

Read this - 21 Tips to Stop Being a People-Pleaser | Psych Central

 

Elaine, I couldn't agree more! You are exactly right.

 

OP, it may sound good to focus on the GF's faults, but none of those matter as it really comes down to your own role in the relationship. Because that's the role you very well may carry on to your next relationship.

 

And these posts that so quickly jump to a diagnosis of a personality disorder are actually quite disturbing, given that there seems to be some odd agenda behind it. I say that, OP, because it's easy to find things on the internet that sound good...but they're not necessarily true or applicable to your situation. Any diagnosing of a mental health condition should only be done by a professional ONLY.

[male483]

I just wish I knew how to let go, everytime it goes a day, 2 days, 3 days eventually i start thinking i was at fault and i feel like apologising. But that behaviour is what has made things worse because everytime i did that it just proved i was a doormat. She just seemingly doesnt have any empathy and i hate it as i have it in abundance.

She litterally screamed at me YOURE **** IN BED I HATE SEX WITH YOU. and then when we made up she'd say she didnt mean it. I also know she broke up with her first ex after 4 years because she cheated in the back of a guys car when away on holiday, which confuses me more because she isnt adventorous at all with sex (or with me) its always the bedroom and me on top but put that down to her being older now and having a 2 year old. anyway her explanation was 'he had no backbone so i thought id get away with it, i did treat him awful after and i do feel bad' now theres 2 points, she treat him bad after cheating which makes me think it might of happened to me but... she felt bad which shows she does feel guilt sometimes so why isnt she showing that to me when she goes off at me.

 

I agree i need to focus on me and stop wondering 'what ifs' because in truth id actually hate to find out ive been cheated on so best thing for my sanity is to just walk away and forget everything. How did i propose to this girl

[SycamoreCircle]

Elaine, I couldn't agree more! You are exactly right.

 

OP, it may sound good to focus on the GF's faults, but none of those matter as it really comes down to your own role in the relationship. Because that's the role you very well may carry on to your next relationship.

 

And these posts that so quickly jump to a diagnosis of a personality disorder are actually quite disturbing, given that there seems to be some odd agenda behind it. I say that, OP, because it's easy to find things on the internet that sound good...but they're not necessarily true or applicable to your situation. Any diagnosing of a mental health condition should only be done by a professional ONLY.

There's no need to be disturbed. Neither Downtown nor myself would claim that anyone is an outright Narcissist. But research has broken down certain behaviors into personality disorders, which as Elaine pointed out, we all possess. When the scales start to tip, I think it's fair to assume that something is wrong.

 

So, I'm not trying t0 absolve anyone of their responsibility in the demise of a relationship. But when deep seated loathing wells out of nowhere, and is beyond reparation with talks or compromise, you have to consider that this lies outside typical break up parameters.

[elaine567]

"I am 30 she is 27 and in every aspect of our relationship things are fantastic, both do so much for each other and she will 'help' me in loads of ways sexually but the trouble is we don't actually have 'sex'. and trouble is thats what i want rather than handjobs etc, i want to make love to my girlfriend. We're Lucky if its 3 times a month normally 2 and i'm used to having sex that much with previous girlfriends that going a week didn't bother me because knew we both wanted it. The problem is we've argued loads regarding this and it seems to be the ONLY argument we have which is so infuriating."

https://www.loveshack.org/forums/mind-body-soul/sexual-reproductive-health-practices/511470-sex-hurts-her-its-killing-us

 

Does it really sound like this girl is a narcissist or is BPD? - "fantastic relationship" - not the usual adjective victims of narcissism use.

Turns out it hurts her to have sex. Vaginismus likely.

OP supposedly left her on 30 January due to not getting sex.

#16

[pie2]

There's no need to be disturbed. Neither Downtown nor myself would claim that anyone is an outright Narcissist. But research has broken down certain behaviors into personality disorders, which as Elaine pointed out, we all possess. When the scales start to tip, I think it's fair to assume that something is wrong.

 

So, I'm not trying t0 absolve anyone of their responsibility in the demise of a relationship. But when deep seated loathing wells out of nowhere, and is beyond reparation with talks or compromise, you have to consider that this lies outside typical break up parameters.

 

Sycamore, I agree with you...to a point. But the way the other poster has a hyper focus on seeming to promote one personality disorder (and sometimes another, I guess) makes it seem like there is another agenda going on.

 

I get worried because "diagnosing" sounds so good to people who are vulnerable...it seems like they have an answer to their problems. But the way the information is presented by this other poster puts all the focus on blaming the partner. That attitude is not healthy.

 

As elaine mentioned, the real solution will come when one realizes his or her own dependency traits that are allowing the relationship patterns to dominate. That's all that really matters at the end of the day.

 

ESPECIALLY because only a professional who has personally met with the couple can truly offer any insight into a diagnosis.

[SycamoreCircle]

Male, you're trying to apply healthy behavior patterns to someone who is unhealthy. Without trying you bring up key words that point up NPD. Namely, NO EMPATHY. That is huge. My ex, in the same breath, told a friend she had butterflies in her stomach for this new guy she'd made out with while disparaging my sexual and intellectual shortcomings. She called me a half-formed man and said I wasn't self-sufficient. I could go on and on. She didn't have one kind thing to say about me. Except...she said I wasn't a jealous type, therefore she didn't feel guilty about being so smitten with this other man.

 

Don't listen to these people who poo-poo applying personality disorders to flagrant abuse.

[SycamoreCircle]

Sycamore, I agree with you...to a point. But the way the other poster has a hyper focus on seeming to promote one personality disorder (and sometimes another, I guess) makes it seem like there is another agenda going on.

 

I get worried because "diagnosing" sounds so good to people who are vulnerable...it seems like they have an answer to their problems. But the way the information is presented by this other poster puts all the focus on blaming the partner. That attitude is not healthy.

 

As elaine mentioned, the real solution will come when one realizes his or her own dependency traits that are allowing the relationship patterns to dominate. That's all that really matters at the end of the day.

 

 

ESPECIALLY because only a professional who has personally met with the couple can truly offer any insight into a diagnosis.

Pie, Downtown's specialty is PD's and from my experience with him, he always applies a very cautious and controlled consideration of each individual case. He, by no means, intends to have the final say on these things.

 

And I would just add, essentially all cheating manifests properties of NPD. Does that mean that every cheater is a full-blown Narcissist? No. But these traits tend to grow and flower together, pardon the expression.

[SycamoreCircle]

"I am 30 she is 27 and in every aspect of our relationship things are fantastic, both do so much for each other and she will 'help' me in loads of ways sexually but the trouble is we don't actually have 'sex'. and trouble is thats what i want rather than handjobs etc, i want to make love to my girlfriend. We're Lucky if its 3 times a month normally 2 and i'm used to having sex that much with previous girlfriends that going a week didn't bother me because knew we both wanted it. The problem is we've argued loads regarding this and it seems to be the ONLY argument we have which is so infuriating."

https://www.loveshack.org/forums/mind-body-soul/sexual-reproductive-health-practices/511470-sex-hurts-her-its-killing-us

 

Does it really sound like this girl is a narcissist or is BPD? - "fantastic relationship" - not the usual adjective victims of narcissism use.

Turns out it hurts her to have sex. Vaginismus likely.

OP supposedly left her on 30 January due to not getting sex.

#16

Couple it with what happened below, Elaine and yes, yes it absolutely sounds like NPD with strong shades of BPD:

 

2 year old woke up, i went into him got him on the potty, got him dressed (as hes at nursery today) and played with his cars with him for 5 mins before telling him i needed to go get ready.

I then laid on our bed for 2 seconds just to wake up with her (whilst all this time she hadn't moved) and this is the exact conversation:

her: jesus youre so lazy you dont do anything for us anymore

me: ive just got up with him im resting for 2 seconds before doing his breakfast

her: thought you was going to the office today anyway

me: decided to work from home for once as got some marketing to do and its easier here relaxed to get it done

her: YOU SAID YOU WAS GOING TO THE OFFICE ALL DAY!!! (shouted)

me: what you shouting for? youre going out with your mum anyway so knew no1 would be in

her: oh for god sake you dont do anything for us anymore

me: no!! what i dont do is ANYTHING WRONG to deserve this everytime

her: this isnt working is it?

me: so youre ending it AGAIN? jesus get a grip and tell me what the hells going on, if its over just say it? dont have to make sure im at office everyday hoping to suddenly fall in love with me again

her: just get lost

me: i cant handle this anymore ive got to just get away for a bit

 

took my stuff and went, she then shouted DONT EXPECT TO EVER COME BACK!!

[elaine567]

The trouble with exes saying that their partner had no empathy, is that did the partner have a lack of empathy as a basic personality trait, in that they had no empathy for anyone or any living thing?

Or was the lack of empathy specific to the partner and borne out of lack of love, lack of caring and building resentment, even hate.

Did they still cry at sad movies, still give to kid's charities, still put themselves out for other people, but reserved their lack of empathy for a person and a relationship they had checked out of?

I also think that some grieving partners see the distancing of the ex as being a sign of lack of empathy when all the ex is doing is carving out a new life for themselves.

[elaine567]

Couple it with what happened below, Elaine and yes, yes it absolutely sounds like NPD with strong shades of BPD:

 

2 year old woke up, i went into him got him on the potty, got him dressed (as hes at nursery today) and played with his cars with him for 5 mins before telling him i needed to go get ready.

I then laid on our bed for 2 seconds just to wake up with her (whilst all this time she hadn't moved) and this is the exact conversation:

her: jesus youre so lazy you dont do anything for us anymore

me: ive just got up with him im resting for 2 seconds before doing his breakfast

her: thought you was going to the office today anyway

me: decided to work from home for once as got some marketing to do and its easier here relaxed to get it done

her: YOU SAID YOU WAS GOING TO THE OFFICE ALL DAY!!! (shouted)

me: what you shouting for? youre going out with your mum anyway so knew no1 would be in

her: oh for god sake you dont do anything for us anymore

me: no!! what i dont do is ANYTHING WRONG to deserve this everytime

her: this isnt working is it?

me: so youre ending it AGAIN? jesus get a grip and tell me what the hells going on, if its over just say it? dont have to make sure im at office everyday hoping to suddenly fall in love with me again

her: just get lost

me: i cant handle this anymore ive got to just get away for a bit

 

took my stuff and went, she then shouted DONT EXPECT TO EVER COME BACK!!

Really we can diagnose NPD and BPD based on an unproven conversation posted on LS. We can verify that this is the truth? NO we cannot.

WE do NOT know ALL the back story here, snippets can prove anything we want to believe.

She maybe is being so defensive as we now know there wa a huge issue with sex here. Was she worried that this lying in bed and not going into the office was going to lead to a demand for sex??

She said it isn't working, which is code for let's talk about this, BUT he says she is ending it - she is not ending it, she reached out and he closed her down, he got stroppy, she told him to get lost and not come back.

Childish yes, but a huge lack of communication from both.

[pie2]

The trouble with exes saying that their partner had no empathy, is that did the partner have a lack of empathy as a basic personality trait, in that they had no empathy for anyone or any living thing?

Or was the lack of empathy specific to the partner and borne out of lack of love, lack of caring and building resentment, even hate.

 

Really we can diagnose NPD and BPD based on an unproven conversation posted on LS. We can verify that this is the truth? NO we cannot.

WE do NOT know ALL the back story here, snippets can prove anything we want to believe.

 

Exactly. EXACTLY!!! I love that you're saying my thoughts.

 

We have no clue about the history in each of their lives. And more importantly, we just have a one-sided (biased) viewpoint on everything that's happened in the relationship!

 

I've read about SO MANY relationships failing on LS. And when people are breaking up, there's a lot of anger and blame going around. It becomes so easy to blame the relationship's demise on the other. But it's almost NEVER the case that one person is to blame.

 

When the relationship started, either everything was fine until the stress of commitment and raising a child became too much for both. OR, the relationship started and there were red flags at the beginning. Whichever the case, the LS "blamer" has a very significant role in his/her situation. NOT the presence (or lack thereof) of a personality disorder.

 

The GF having a personality disorder is secondary to what role the OP has in the relationship. If anyone REALLY wants to help him, I think the focus should remain there (on him)...and not on an unprofessional quest to label the other person.

[SycamoreCircle]

Again, no one is diagnosing this woman. I'm saying and Downtown is saying everything points strongly to it. Why do this?

 

I could not make sense of my ex's behavior. I mean, if I ask you what's wrong and you give me no reasons, then ten reasons the next day, then ten different reasons the next day, the whole while telling me you don't want to talk about it, what am I to conclude?

 

When I did find out the real reason, it still didn't make sense. It wasn't until I started putting all the clues in a pile and different people began alluding to NPD that I made connections and some thread of continuity began to emerge.

 

It helped me cope. It helped me understand. And I tell you, one year later all the evidence and later developments confirm my suspicions.

 

I'm sorry, I get where the two of you are coming from---but I think you're out of your element here.

 

As for only having the OP's side of the story, when is that ever not the case on LS?

 

Do I believe the OP is distorting or hiding information? No.

Do I believe that this behavior stems from a gynecological problem? No.

 

I mean, seriously, do you even really believe the stuff you're proposing?

Edited February 16, 2015 by SycamoreCircle

[elaine567]

Again, no one is diagnosing this woman. I'm saying and Downtown is saying everything points strongly to it. Why do this?

 

I could not make sense of my exes behavior. I mean, if I ask you what's wrong and you give me no reasons, then ten reasons the next day, then ten different reasons the next day, the whole while telling me you don't want to talk about it, what am I to conclude?

 

When I did find out the real reason, it still didn't make sense. It wasn't until I started putting all the clues in a pile and different people began alluding to NPD that I made connections and some thread of continuity began to emerge.

 

It helped me cope. It helped me understand. And I tell you, one year later all the evidence and later developments confirm my suspicions.

 

I'm sorry, I get where the two of you are coming from---but I think you're out of your element here.

 

As for only having the OP's side of the story, when is that ever not the case on LS?

 

Do I believe the OP is distorting or hiding information? No.

Do I believe that this behavior stems from a gynecological problem? No.

 

I mean, seriously, do you even really believe the stuff you're proposing?

 

No-one is doubting your situation, no-one is doubting your conclusions, no-one is doubting the help it gave you.

 

BUT your ex like so many exes on here have no say, no defence, no chance to put their side of the story, all we have to go on are hurt people seeing things their way, or posting stuff that justifies their actions.

So whilst I am willing to try to help, I am not willing to give out psychiatric labels to absent people based on supposed conversations or he said, she said accusations.

If we taped anyone on LS or anywhere else for that matter having a real heated argument with their partner, then I am sure the red flags of all sorts of PDs would be flying. Justified or unjustified.

Toxic people exist, many are devious and cunning, some are obviously nuts and some make other people crazy, whilst appearing "oh so normal and reasonable" themselves.

 

I don't know if how truly "toxic" this girl is, but it takes two to tango and the OP also needs to address his own issues here and try to heal.

He doesn't need to spend the next 10 years attempting to diagnose her, hating her and blaming her, as that is unhealthy in the extreme.

[Downtown]

Really we can diagnose NPD and BPD based on an unproven conversation posted on LS. We can verify that this is the truth?

Elaine, as Sycamore noted above, no respondent on this thread has claimed to "diagnose" anyone. In my posts, I encouraged Male to learn the warning signs for BPD so he could decide, for himself, whether he was seeing any of the strong red flags.

 

Similarly, Sycamore has stated in two posts (#11 and #20 above) that nobody is diagnosing this woman. Indeed, the strongest statement Sycamore has made about narcissism was his comment that "it absolutely sounds like NP." So, what does "sounds like" mean? Well, if you go to any large medical forum, you will find a thousand people claiming each day that a certain set of symptoms "sounds like" a particular disease. And it will be very rare for you to see anyone complaining that these folks are trying to "diagnose" something. Nearly everyone on those forums knows that the expression "sounds like" is simply an attempt to match a set of symptoms with the published warning signs for a particular disease.

 

Importantly, there is a world of difference between making a diagnosis (which only professionals can do) and simply spotting warning signs. This distinction is so well known to the public in the medical field because hospitals and medical centers have been publishing the warning signs for various diseases for many decades. They've been encouraging the lay public to learn these red flags because they know that, when the public is educated about spotting warning signs, they are far more likely to seek professional help -- and will be far quicker in doing so (when medical intervention can make a difference). The result is that most adults in first-world countries know the warning signs for common diseases -- e.g., breast cancer, heart attack, and stroke -- without having a clue as to how those diseases would be diagnosed.

 

Similiarly, mental health centers have been educating the lay public about the warning signs for personality disorders on their Internet websites over the past 10 years. They know that the lay public is capable of spotting these signs because there is nothing subtle about symptoms such as temper tantrums, strong verbal abuse, and strong feelings of entitlement.

[SycamoreCircle]

Elaine, I don't think I'm going overboard by using this analogy---if an innocent woman was raped, would you try to uncover her guilt in the matter?

 

I kid you not---dealing with a narcissist is like being emotionally raped. The only guilt to uncover is that you were the person closest to the narcissist. That is your flaw.

[elaine567]

Elaine, as Sycamore noted above, no respondent on this thread has claimed to "diagnose" anyone. In my posts, I encouraged Male to learn the warning signs for BPD so he could decide, for himself, whether he was seeing any of the strong red flags.

 

Similarly, Sycamore has stated in two posts (#11 and #20 above) that nobody is diagnosing this woman. Indeed, the strongest statement Sycamore has made about narcissism was his comment that "it absolutely sounds like NP." So, what does "sounds like" mean? Well, if you go to any large medical forum, you will find a thousand people claiming each day that a certain set of symptoms "sounds like" a particular disease. And it will be very rare for you to see anyone complaining that these folks are trying to "diagnose" something. Nearly everyone on those forums knows that the expression "sounds like" is simply an attempt to match a set of symptoms with the published warning signs for a particular disease.

 

Importantly, there is a world of difference between making a diagnosis (which only professionals can do) and simply spotting warning signs. This distinction is so well known to the public in the medical field because hospitals and medical centers have been publishing the warning signs for various diseases for many decades. They've been encouraging the lay public to learn these red flags because they know that, when the public is educated about spotting warning signs, they are far more likely to seek professional help -- and will be far quicker in doing so (when medical intervention can make a difference). The result is that most adults in first-world countries know the warning signs for common diseases -- e.g., breast cancer, heart attack, and stroke -- without having a clue as to how those diseases would be diagnosed.

 

Similiarly, mental health centers have been educating the lay public about the warning signs for personality disorders on their Internet websites over the past 10 years. They know that the lay public is capable of spotting these signs because there is nothing subtle about symptoms such as temper tantrums, strong verbal abuse, and strong feelings of entitlement.

 

Yes but on a medical forum if a wife, for instance, is told her husband "sounds like" he has diabetes, then after no tests, no diagnosis, she doesn't usually go around speaking about her "diabetic" husband.

But that is what happens here.

Someone sagely mentions narcissism and BPD and it all slots into place in the mind of the hurt individual. But we as humans often choose the findings that suit us best to "prove" and support our theories.

Confirmation bias.

 

Red flags and warning signs are very important and if that saves an individual getting involved with a person who may turn out to be "toxic" or "abusive" or have a PD, then fine.

But this often highly biased post mortem analysing of traits that may or may not be important and the need for "labels" to be attached to exes is not very scientific nor helpful to the individual IMO.

[elaine567]

Elaine, I don't think I'm going overboard by using this analogy---if an innocent woman was raped, would you try to uncover her guilt in the matter?

 

I kid you not---dealing with a narcissist is like being emotionally raped. The only guilt to uncover is that you were the person closest to the narcissist. That is your flaw.

No-one is trying to blame victims and yes being the victim of abuse is like being emotionally raped, I agree.

But would it be really helpful to the victim of rape to analyse her attacker for weeks, months and years, instead of trying to mend herself and allow herself to heal and cope with what has happened to her.