Why do they always say that nice guys finish last?

[A O]

Nice guys finish last because for the most part - niceness is all they have to offer. That is their number one selling point but that doesn't get them very far, especially when a good looking guy, or a funny guy, or an interesting guy equipped with enough niceness within him (basically they're just typically respectful people) enters the picture.

 

Only a small amount of women go for jerks and only a small amount of men use niceness as their number one dating tool.

[beatcuff]

I have a hard time understanding why many women go for "jerks" as they call it. Maybe I'm missing something?

 

because they don't. they end up with the 'mr. nice guy' BUT talk about the 'screw ball nut case' because he is interesting.

 

seriously how fast will your girlfriends want to change the subject when one goes on and on about how their boyfriend did the dishes and laundry and come home on time. no you hear about how that [expletive deleted] went out the boys after work, got drunk, and bought worthless lottery tickets with the rent money.

[toolforgrowth]

As a recovering "nice guy", I'll throw my two cents in.

 

I used to have low self-esteem, so I believed that "being nice" was all I had to offer. But since it was all I had, boy I sure threw it out there with everything I had. I let my xWW walk all over me, hoping that she would realize just now "nice" I was and treat me the same way. Obviously that didn't work out. It's hard to respect someone who's so nice to you to the point of subservience.

 

I get why people say there's a sense of entitlement, but I'd say it goes a step further than that. It's not that "nice guys" believe they are entitled to a woman's body just by being nice to her; it's that they haven't realized that, typically, being nice doesn't automatically lead to sexual attraction by the opposite sex. Case in point: I've met women who were super nice, but definitely not my style physically. There is no amount of niceness they could throw at me that would get it up. I think many "nice guys" haven't yet realized that it's a two way street when it comes to that. That's not to say that a woman has to be supermodel, or a man has to be a cut hunk, to find a mate. It's just that people need that something else to go along with being nice. Are they funny? Are they artistic? Are they passionate about something? Do they actually live, or just go through the motions?

 

"Nice guys" whose whole raison d'etre is just to be nice, often finish last. They are easy prey for dishonest people, and thus, become bitter and entitled, never fully realizing that if they grew even a semblance of a backbone they wouldn't become prey to others. However, nice guys who are genuinely nice, but also have the self esteem to not allow themselves to become doormats, are the genuine deal.

[mario_C]

Not sure where you got THIS idea as the two don't even correlate.

 

I'm not sure how these are referred to as nice guys. These are actually jerks.

 

 

 

They aren't nice guys, they are players.

 

Seems those here have their own personal definitions.

The syndrome is summed up in the "Nice Guys of OKCupid" blog which OrangeParty linked to.

So, lesson learned. Don't be a nice guy - a good man is better, and definitely not the same thing. Good men win forever.

[somedude81]

There is so much underserved flack for the term nice guy.

 

To me a nice guy is a guy who won't do any of the following, be abusive, cheat, disrespect.

 

He will make his partner feel loved and important. That her goals and interests matter. He will be supportive. He contributes to the things around the house etc. that need to get done. He doesn't let his partner walk over him or decide everything.

 

There is nothing negative about being a nice guy.

 

Nice guys have a problem when we see guys who are being rude and abusive to women still managing to be in relationships. That doesn't make any sense.

[toolforgrowth]

There is so much underserved flack for the term nice guy.

 

To me a nice guy is a guy who won't do any of the following, be abusive, cheat, disrespect.

 

He will make his partner feel loved and important. That her goals and interests matter. He will be supportive. He contributes to the things around the house etc. that need to get done. He doesn't let his partner walk over him or decide everything.

 

There is nothing negative about being a nice guy.

 

Nice guys have a problem when we see guys who are being rude and abusive to women still managing to be in relationships. That doesn't make any sense.

 

Yes and no. Nice Guys typically place their partner's needs above their own. It's one thing to be honorable, yet entirely another to cater.

 

The big question I have is, what does a Nice Guy do when his partner doesn't reciprocate all of the Nice things he does you quote above?

[somedude81]

Yes and no. Nice Guys typically place their partner's needs above their own. It's one thing to be honorable, yet entirely another to cater.

 

That's just being a pushover.

 

The big question I have is, what does a Nice Guy do when his partner doesn't reciprocate all of the Nice things he does you quote above?

 

Tell her that he isn't happy and try to work out a solution. If that doesn't work, then end things.

[StanMusial]

People say this because it often happens. Not just in romantic pursuits either, although I understand what you mean due to the intent and purpose of this particular forum.

 

I don't spend much time on Facebook so I've never seen any posts about this topic on there or anywhere else. But obviously nice guys don't get very high marks on here either, with the ladies. LOL.

[Justanaverageguy]

Yes and no. Nice Guys typically place their partner's needs above their own. It's one thing to be honorable, yet entirely another to cater.

 

The syndrome is summed up in the "Nice Guys of OKCupid" blog which OrangeParty linked to.

So, lesson learned. Don't be a nice guy - a good man is better, and definitely not the same thing. Good men win forever.

 

Copy paste from the other thread on this topic - Agreed I think there is a huge difference between being a "good guy" and what people today term a "nice guy". In German there is actually a saying I like which is - Nett is the klein bruder von Scheiße. In English that translates to - Nice is the little brother of 5hit. Nice is not a compliment it is an insult.

 

"Nice guys" is basically slang for those men who lack confidence and don't have the balls to make a move, to put themselves out there. Instead of being assertive with their feelings, wants and desires for a woman they instead try and win a girls affection by becoming friends with them. He will put theirs and others needs above his own - doing things for them as some sort of attempt to win their favor or get a pay off. Like they only did the nice deed to basically try and get laid. I think nice guy syndrome has been bread more and more into guys these days because from a young age men are taught a bunch of lies about what women actually want. Also with a lot of the womens rights and what is now considered to be "appropriate" some are just plain scared to make the first move on a woman for fear of being called a sleaze.

 

A good guy on the other hand I think is entirely different to a nice guy. It is a guy who shows respect, is not a sleaze bag, doesn't use people and will be polite and considerate. But he also isn't afraid to say what he wants and go after it. If he likes a girl .... he will make a direct move for her and tell her. He does not constantly put other peoples needs above his own. He see's his own needs as equally important. He also doesn't perform good actions with an expectation of a payoff at the end. He does good things just because its the right thing to do and he is a considerate person. Lastly and maybe most importantly if push comes to shove he won't let people walk all over him like a nice guy does. Nice guys finish last for a reason.

[Els]

Definitely stems from different definitions of 'nice'. The ones who claim that the 'nice guys finish last' are usually mistaking 'nice' to mean 'guy who tries to act nice to a woman to get into her pants and then gets pissed off when it doesn't work'.

 

I've always been attracted to genuinely nice guys - the ones who hold themselves to high ethical standards, and who are considerate towards everyone (not just women they want to bang). Obviously, this in itself is not enough, and there are people who are genuinely nice who struggle with dating/relationships, usually due to some combination of luck/appearance/social circles or lack thereof. This goes for both men and women. Essentially being genuinely nice is a plus point, but it doesn't override everything else.

[Revolver]

Absolutely. Nice guys end up raising bad boys illegitimate children(knowingly and unkowingly)

[stillmind]

I have yet to meet a genuinely nice man who says things like that, lol.

 

I have met several bitter, entitled misogynistic creeps who say this though.

[Maleficent]

You are all playing word games and making things up. Look up the definitions. You can be an introverted and unassertive jerk. And you are equating nice with being mean and manipulative.

 

You can't just change the definitions to suit your needs and maintain credibility. I think what some people are saying is that they were fooled by mean people who pretended be nice. Rather than accept that you were duped, you are changing the definition. You make nice guys sound like creeps.

 

That's because when they don't get their way, they rant on how they are nice guys and they treat us well and that fine we can go after the jerks all we want.

 

Don't blame us for giving them the 'nice guy' title. They took it.

 

Most people are seeing the difference between the genuine nice guy and the entitled nice guy though (herein referred to as Nice Guy TM)

[amaysngrace]

When they say "nice guys finish last" it's a sexual reference.

 

But what isn't?

[carhill]

Why do they always say that nice guys finish last?

 

I first heard the phrase back when young when young men were socialized to take no prisoners in winning. There was other phrases like 'there's no such thing as second place', etc. etc. My remembrance was that a baseball manager, one who made quite a habit getting ejected from ballgames, gave rise to the phrase. Baseball was popular at our house and I played little league from a young child.

 

I think I started ascribing the phrase to matters of romance after about ten years or so of rejection more as a method of explaining my own viewpoint on the matters. I also used it to explain some of my failures in business, generally from being too trusting and accommodating.

 

I got meaner and keener and more focused on winning, like old Leo preached, and success in all realms improved. No one likes a loser and in life there is no second place. There's only life and death.

[GemmaUK]

Part of the problem is down to the fact that 'nice guy' as a definition has more than one meaning.

 

 

There is no just black and white as there are varying shades of grey in between.

 

 

Nice guys who I have met have been:

Self proclaimed - these are the worst kind of nice guy.

A few very brief examples of a very few of the things they do:

They really do appear nice in the beginning and then the cracks start to show. They have anger issues, blame anyone and everyone else for things they had a part in (eg - their own life).

They need attention - lots of it.

They start laying down rules about how you are supposed to act or dress or who should be your friends.

They manipulate or attempt to.

They believe that because they are da man they should be the leader instead of having any kind of equal relationship.

Sense of humour can be lacking too as they are very insecure.

Also, they can be completely unaware that they do any of the above.

 

 

Another kind of nice guy is the one who is 'just nice'. He will do anything to please and even alter his opinions to match a woman's.

He never expresses his needs or wants and you have to be a mind reader to know what he needs.

Again, sense of humour is lacking usually.

Getting him to speak up in any way is a blood out of a stone scenario.

 

 

Those are only two types of nice guy I have met and I have no doubt there are many more.

 

 

Good men are just normal men who have passions for things, do their best, make mistakes, they don't 'act' though to be anything they are not.

They are genuine. Real. Human and tend to have good relationships as they can communicate and can realise that life and people aren't perfect.

Also, they aren't 'me me now now' types and they are considerate of others aside from themselves.

They also take responsibility for their own lives and circumstances.

Luckily for me I have dated mostly good men.

[BlueIris]

Whenever I hear that saying, I wonder, finish last in what?

 

Being nice, and not competitive and fierce, in sports, war and business can mean losing, finishing last. I hadn’t heard it used in the context of social interactions until pretty recently, and I don’t think it applies there at all. Social interaction isn’t competitive, or rather, I have no interest in people who view social interaction as competitive. I have enough competition in work and other parts of life to even want competitive undercurrent to social relationships.

 

Being nice to people around you in social settings and interactions does pay off and you finish first, in friendships, respect, social support, and in having good relationships. I’ve known men and women who are fierce competitors in sports and business/work settings, but who were also gracious, tactful, supportive, nice, socially pleasant people.

[Timshel]

Part of the problem is down to the fact that 'nice guy' as a definition has more than one meaning.

 

 

There is no just black and white as there are varying shades of grey in between.

 

 

Nice guys who I have met have been:

Self proclaimed - these are the worst kind of nice guy.

A few very brief examples of a very few of the things they do:

They really do appear nice in the beginning and then the cracks start to show. They have anger issues, blame anyone and everyone else for things they had a part in (eg - their own life).

They need attention - lots of it.

They start laying down rules about how you are supposed to act or dress or who should be your friends.

They manipulate or attempt to.

They believe that because they are da man they should be the leader instead of having any kind of equal relationship.

Sense of humour can be lacking too as they are very insecure.

Also, they can be completely unaware that they do any of the above.

 

 

Another kind of nice guy is the one who is 'just nice'. He will do anything to please and even alter his opinions to match a woman's.

He never expresses his needs or wants and you have to be a mind reader to know what he needs.

Again, sense of humour is lacking usually.

Getting him to speak up in any way is a blood out of a stone scenario.

 

 

Those are only two types of nice guy I have met and I have no doubt there are many more.

 

 

Good men are just normal men who have passions for things, do their best, make mistakes, they don't 'act' though to be anything they are not.

They are genuine. Real. Human and tend to have good relationships as they can communicate and can realise that life and people aren't perfect.

Also, they aren't 'me me now now' types and they are considerate of others aside from themselves.

They also take responsibility for their own lives and circumstances.

Luckily for me I have dated mostly good men.

 

Yes, very accurate. Interesting that you noted a lack of sense of humor in both types of "nice." I have observed that as well. Hmmmm....

[CT98]

I think really it boils down to questioning the sanity of a woman who doesn't want to be treated nicely but would rather be treated like dirt.....

[Maleficent]

I think really it boils down to questioning the sanity of a woman who doesn't want to be treated nicely but would rather be treated like dirt.....

 

Did you even read the thread and the article??

[TouchedByViolet]

Nice guy is the guy who is great on paper but women don't want to bang for some reason. The hypocrisy in what most women say vs do is insane. Most will sleep with a hot guy even if he is a loser, liar, cheater, abusive, or unreliable. They look past or are in denial of the guys negative qualities. I call these women basic bitches.

 

I am looking for a "nice girl" that would be wonderful.

[somedude81]

Nice guy is the guy who is great on paper but women don't want to bang for some reason. The hypocrisy in what most women say vs do is insane. Most will sleep with a hot guy even if he is a loser, liar, cheater, abusive, or unreliable. They look past or are in denial of the guys negative qualities. I call these women basic bitches.

 

I am looking for a "nice girl" that would be wonderful.

 

I'm looking for a "common sense girl."

 

Somebody who will dump a guy instantly if he is abusive or cheats on her. A girl who won't take any crap from a guy who is disrespectful to her or tries to be manipulative. A girl who is able to voice the concerns she has about the relationship.

[smackie9]

Women don't intentionally want to be treated like dirt. There are those women that find themselves dating a jerk because feel they should try and "fix" them, tame the beast with their love. They get a little niceness out of the guy and it becomes some magical thing, the thing they keep chasing to get back. When the guy pushes back, dopamine is released in the woman's brain increasing desire. It happens to guys that become obsessed....the more you push them away the more they fight for you. This is why everyone should keep this in mind when dealing with OPs who can't help themselves being in love with someone that cheated on them, treats them like crap, manipulation, etc. You can't bash them for being cso cought up in it emotionally....it's tough to break that cycle, and for them to make any sense of it.

[NJ123]

Nice guy is the guy who is great on paper but women don't want to bang for some reason. The hypocrisy in what most women say vs do is insane. Most will sleep with a hot guy even if he is a loser, liar, cheater, abusive, or unreliable. They look past or are in denial of the guys negative qualities. I call these women basic bitches.

 

I am looking for a "nice girl" that would be wonderful.

 

Just look at my casual sex thread for all the proof you need. 95% of the women in there admitted they'd bang the hot guy regardless of who he is. They could find out they were a charming convicted rapist in the past afterwards, & they probably still wouldn't regret it.

Edited February 16, 2015 by NJ123

[CT98]

Did you even read the thread and the article??

 

Yes I have read the thread, and no I don't see any article.

 

What I'm saying is it's clear the OP is one of the sane women who liked to be treated well...and I am equally as bemused as her as to why some women love to be treated like crap.

 

Don't really understand what you're getting at?