Cheaters with personality disorders

[Quiet Storm]

Pride before the fall?

 

Also, I did not say that there was surely some set of circumstance where anyone would certainly fail. I just said you don't know till you are tested. However, before we are tested, some of us think they know. Others are realistic and know they can't know the answer before the test is given. If you are over confident, you are in fact more likely to fail, IMHO, when tested.

 

 

 

All true, well, and good. It still does not mean that you have been tested and therefore can speak with certainty about what you will do. It is foolish and dangerous hubris to think you do know what you would do for sure.

 

It is good to take these step though and plan for/hope for the best. In the meantime, don't look down on those that have been tested and failed. "There, but for the grace of god, go I," would be a more appropriate attitude.

 

 

I just disagree, completely. I've been with him 24 years, and have been tempted and attracted to other men. I just recognize temptation as a threat to my marriage and step away, instead of exploring the attraction. Self awareness is a very powerful thing- it's a built in warning system for yourself. If I never allow myself to get close to another man, then how could I possibly cheat on my husband?

 

Don't you have things in your life that you know you will never do or participate in? I know I will never shoot up heroin. I know I will never punch a baby in the nose. I know I will never kick my dog. I could go on and on.

 

I apologize if my posts are coming off with a superior attitude, but I'm just trying to show that people don't have to be a slave to their emotions, your upbringing and your weaknesses. I had a very difficult childhood, an addict parent, a sister with BPD because my grandfather raped her as a child... I am not perfect by any means, and I come from a very messed up family. Unless we had perfect parents that modeled all the right behaviors and coping skills, we are all flawed. But it's up to us as adults, to be emotionally healthy people. For ourselves, for our spouses and for our children. It takes time, effort, introspection and most importantly, self awareness. But it can be done.

 

You just have to be conscious of what is happening. This is what self awareness would look like for me:

 

Lets say my husband has been working all the time and doesn't make much time for us anymore. I am lonely and sad.

 

Self talk to myself: "My marriage isn't making me feel happy right now, so what can I do to cope with that? This state of mind might make me vulnerable to male attention, so how do I prepare for that?"

 

Make a plan: Tell my husband that we need more time together. When I'm feeling lonely, I will exercise. I will call my best friend. I will play a video game with my kids. I will walk my dogs.

 

A new guy at work starts asking me about my life and tries to find reasons to talk to me. He jokes and makes me laugh. I also notice that he stands really close to me, and I can feel some attraction there. It gives me a jolt of excitement.

 

Self talk to myself: "DANGER! DANGER! DANGER!!!! I need to protect and respect myself and my marriage! DO NOT GO THERE"

 

Make a plan: Avoid guy at work. Give short, boring responses to his questions about my life. No eye contact. No laughing. If he stands close to me, walk away. Tell husband that I love him but need more time & attention from him, that I love our connection and want to keep it alive.

 

It's really as simple as that. If you have proper boundaries, you won't cheat.

 

If my husband just ignored me and didn't try, then I still wouldn't cheat. I'd have to make a decision about my marriage. If my feelings for my husband were gone, choosing not to cheat wouldn't be driven by loyalty to my husband, but my values and respect for my kids.

[Woggle]

I left home at 16 to run wild in the streets of NYC until my mid 20s and I was exposed to things that would make the hair stand up on even the most hardened people on here. I have done things that make the hair stand up and still I have never cheated because I do not betray people I care about. I feel that strongly about it. I have messed around a lot when single but never have I betrayed somebody I claimed to love.

[autumnnight]

I just disagree, completely. I've been with him 24 years, and have been tempted and attracted to other men. I just recognize temptation as a threat to my marriage and step away, instead of exploring the attraction. Self awareness is a very powerful thing- it's a built in warning system for yourself. If I never allow myself to get close to another man, then how could I possibly cheat on my husband?

 

Don't you have things in your life that you know you will never do or participate in? I know I will never shoot up heroin. I know I will never punch a baby in the nose. I know I will never kick my dog. I could go on and on.

 

I apologize if my posts are coming off with a superior attitude, but I'm just trying to show that people don't have to be a slave to their emotions, your upbringing and your weaknesses. I had a very difficult childhood, an addict parent, a sister with BPD because my grandfather raped her as a child... I am not perfect by any means, and I come from a very messed up family. Unless we had perfect parents that modeled all the right behaviors and coping skills, we are all flawed. But it's up to us as adults, to be emotionally healthy people. For ourselves, for our spouses and for our children. It takes time, effort, introspection and most importantly, self awareness. But it can be done.

 

You just have to be conscious of what is happening. This is what self awareness would look like for me:

 

Lets say my husband has been working all the time and doesn't make much time for us anymore. I am lonely and sad.

 

Self talk to myself: "My marriage isn't making me feel happy right now, so what can I do to cope with that? This state of mind might make me vulnerable to male attention, so how do I prepare for that?"

 

Make a plan: Tell my husband that we need more time together. When I'm feeling lonely, I will exercise. I will call my best friend. I will play a video game with my kids. I will walk my dogs.

 

A new guy at work starts asking me about my life and tries to find reasons to talk to me. He jokes and makes me laugh. I also notice that he stands really close to me, and I can feel some attraction there. It gives me a jolt of excitement.

 

Self talk to myself: "DANGER! DANGER! DANGER!!!! I need to protect and respect myself and my marriage! DO NOT GO THERE"

 

Make a plan: Avoid guy at work. Give short, boring responses to his questions about my life. No eye contact. No laughing. If he stands close to me, walk away. Tell husband that I love him but need more time & attention from him, that I love our connection and want to keep it alive.

 

It's really as simple as that. If you have proper boundaries, you won't cheat.

 

If my husband just ignored me and didn't try, then I still wouldn't cheat. I'd have to make a decision about my marriage. If my feelings for my husband were gone, choosing not to cheat wouldn't be driven by loyalty to my husband, but my values and respect for my kids.

 

I can see this. I have a dear friend who cheated in 2002. She had been unhappy for a long time for a variety of legitimate reasons. Of course, cheating was NOT excusable. I actually urged her to consider separating. Thing is, in our church, to divorce for any reason except repeated, unrepentant, blatant infidelity was like committing the unpardonable sin. She stayed married because she thought the church would discipline her if she divorced. She was in a leadership position and was highly scrutinized. That is not an excuse either. But I think if she had been in an environment where she felt free to leave a really BAD marriage, she wouldn't have continued to be vulnerable, continued to be angry, etc. She told me later that by the time she cheated she hated her husband so much she just didn't care anymore.

 

This was not a woman with a personality disorder. This was a woman who made some very VERY crappy choices. But honestly, I think she felt trapped, and that is a shame. A lot of times the same people who are so affronted by cheating (such as the church people we sat next to every Sunday) are also affronted by anything else that might have helped her. Kind of like people who don't believe in abortion but are also against any form of birth control.

 

 

She made her choice to cheat and it was wrong. And I learned from watching her. When my marriage was so bad for so long that I knew I was raw and starving, I bailed.

[Selfish]

Examples? I don't know any.

 

Head to the dating forums. Read posts done by people who justify loose boundaries with the other sex (or same if that is who they are). There justification is almost always "i am incapable of cheating" very often those people are the ones most likely to slip down the slope. Maybe they catch themselves maybe they don't. But their belief that they simply couldn't cheat is their weakness.

 

Quet storm says she wouldn't cheat. But she gives a list of all the measures she makes sure are in place. If she was actually physically incapable of cheating (or believed herself to be anyways) she wouldn't need thise boundaries.

 

It isn't about being a slave to our emotions and feelings either. That is missing the point. It is about realizing and seeing the danger zones that can lead to cheating. Not just arrogently thinking you are above it an playing with fire.

 

I never though I'd cheat. Cheating is for people with no self control and no empathy or care for others. I cheated. So I realize now that ANYONE is at least capable of having an EA if they do not see the warning signs.

 

I tried to warn a sorta friend who had a red flag friendship. I told her how dangerous that was. She shut me down pretty fast and told me "i'm not you, I actually love my H and have better self control than that." She believed herseld incapable of cheating no matter what. Her innocent, husband approved friendship turned into a questionable friendship that turned into an EA that turned into a PA no sex and she got caught. She never did talk to me much again. But, in her case, her pride was her downfall.

[Woggle]

Anybody is physically capable of cheating but it goes against my principles and I like being proud of the person in the mirror. I also don't have an addictive personality. I have no substance abuse issues and I have even tried a few drugs and never wanted to try them again so maybe that it is.

[Selfish]

Anybody is physically capable of cheating but it goes against my principles and I like being proud of the person in the mirror. I also don't have an addictive personality. I have no substance abuse issues and I have even tried a few drugs and never wanted to try them again so maybe that it is.

 

All these things were once true for me.

 

Obviously not everyone ends up cheating and that is awesome. Just make sure your boundaries and actions match your words. If more people did that, cheating would occur much less.

[elaine567]

I do not believe that everyone who cheats is in some sort of affair fog, nor are they just a victim of circumstance nor are they unhappy in their marriage.

I believe there are some that consciously decide to cheat. They are not necessarily "mad " nor do they necessarily suffer from some ghastly PD.

They formulate plans to cheat and then they carry them through with a willing partner, a partner that has either made it known they are available or a partner who has been "wooed" by the WS.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Interesting that some of you tried drugs, some of you engaged in sexually relations before marriage, some of you drank alcohol before age 21, some of you drove a car without a license, some of you drove a car while intoxicated, some of you smoked cigarettes...on and on. It was wrong. You knew it was wrong...but something tempted you to do it and you did. Sometimes it is peer pressure...you are in a situation in a particular frame of mind...and you go for it.

 

Yet you cannot understand how a person could be in a situation...even though they know it is wrong, they cross boundaries, and cheat.

 

Yes cheating is the worst...yes people who cheat are bad...or flawed as some of you think.

 

I guess I just kind of look at people and think they are human...and sometimes we all choose the wrong thing...and sometimes it ruins our lives and sometimes we can recover. cheating is not an accident...a cheater makes a conscience decision to cheat. A smoker makes a conscience decision to smoke. A drinker makes a conscience decision to drink and drive.

 

All these things have consequences. All have the potential to affect others. each of these things in a way is also a betrayal. We disobey our parents, we disobey laws. We lie, sometimes steal to do the things we know we should not do.

All of us process the potential to do these things.

 

So we make choices to do things we know are wrong knowing what the consequences might be. Divorce, prison, cancer, death....

[merrmeade]

Look, I think most of us, saying we haven't cheated and know we wouldn't, aren't trying to be up in your face or purring with moral pride. Good grief, most of us were betrayed, for pete's sake. Enviable position? I don't think so.

 

I just know that I couldn't and wouldn't. Sorry if it makes people defensive. It makes me miserable because it won't change and because the people closest to me, two to be exact, could. I also hate it that I've succeeded in understanding why and accept it.

 

I thought about monogamy as a child. As a teen, I researched premarital sex as a 16-year-old and decided I was okay with that. I was good at flirting and experienced enough to know where it leads. I did drugs, smoked cigarettes and the very, very worst, spanked my kids. I'll never forgive myself for the latter. I had no support and read stuff that convinced me it was okay, but it wasn't. I wasn't prepared for the stress of parenting and did not have a spouse that helped me. So maybe in that way, I can understand marital infidelity if it's a matter of being unprepared or unable to follow through with what you believe and want.

[Selfish]

Look, I think most of us, saying we haven't cheated and know we wouldn't, aren't trying to be up in your face or purring with moral pride. Good grief, most of us were betrayed, for pete's sake. Enviable position? I don't think so.

 

I just know that I couldn't and wouldn't. Sorry if it makes people defensive. It makes me miserable because it won't change and because the people closest to me, two to be exact, could. I also hate it that I've succeeded in understanding why and accept it.

 

I thought about monogamy as a child. As a teen, I researched premarital sex as a 16-year-old and decided I was okay with that. I was good at flirting and experienced enough to know where it leads. I did drugs, smoked cigarettes and the very, very worst, spanked my kids. I'll never forgive myself for the latter. I had no support and read stuff that convinced me it was okay, but it wasn't. I wasn't prepared for the stress of parenting and did not have a spouse that helped me. So maybe in that way, I can understand marital infidelity if it's a matter of being unprepared or unable to follow through with what you believe and want.

 

I think when one accuses others of being defensive they should take a good hard look at their own posts and realize they too could be read as defensive. I would imagine experiencing the betrayal end would make most people far more aware of the slippery slope infidelity can be. Sadly, not all and I have heard of bs becoming ws (not ra but in another R) or even AP. But I think most have their eyes a lot more open than someone who has not experienced infidilty as a child or a bs.

[Ralph79]

Before I say anything, I want to state that I personally enjoy the debates that go on in these threads when they are conducted in a respectful manner.

 

I may not necessarily agree with some people, I don't expect everyone else to agree with my point of view either, I simply enjoy sharing my thoughts and expanding my perception of issues when people make great points.

 

Ok. Having said that, I want to add the following:

 

Mrs. Adams, I'm going to borrow your last post, because you pretty much are able to sum up the opinions of a lot of posters. This is not a direct counter-argument to you. It's to everyone.

 

It's not that I disagree with what is said in it. I understand where you are coming from. It makes total sense. We are all capable of sin and we should be more understanding towards one another, because none of us are above committing sins.

 

That is a fair and irrefutable point.

 

What I wanted to point out for the sake of context was this:

 

You stated that those who commit transgressions such as driving under the influence, smoke, drink alcohol underage, do drugs, should be understanding of those who commit adultery, because it's a sin as well. Thus all of the aforementioned people should understand that they too are capable of caving to the temptation of adultery one day.

 

By that same logic I would tell everyone that cheats, along with everyone else, should be understanding of incestuous pedophile rapists, because they too are human and they too make mistakes. Thus we should look ourselves in the mirror and accept that we too, one day, given a set of tragic circumstances, are capable of doing that (rapists).

 

I know what some might think or say: "Don't be ridiculous, it's not the same". But that's my point.

 

To some posters the concept of cheating is so unacceptable as the latter sin is to most of us (if not all of us). Why? Because some posters learned firsthand the consequences of adultery and have profound aversion towards it, because of personal permanent scars that will forever stay with them. For them cheating is on the same level as the worst sin on earth.

 

So my point is, some people (don't know how many), might lack the capacity to understand of feel compassion towards a cheater. For the reasons I stated previously.

 

This might be a large group, as a small group, but a group exists nonetheless. And I've found this post to be very important to repeat:

 

while some feel that all people are capable of cheating, I think that most people are capable of being faithful, provided they have the right tools and self awareness.

 

I was talking about this topic with a friend today and he said something I can't prove to be true but it's relevant to this post:

 

"The first people who will say everyone is capable of cheating, are cheaters themselves."

[Mrs. John Adams]

You may be right...and the first ones who say I would never cheat are betrayed spouses....

 

I have been both..I must really be screwed up.

[Selfish]

I find it completely offensive when people use pedophilia as an example for infidelity.

 

Pedophile is not on the same level nor should it ever be compared to infidelity

[Woggle]

I can have some compassion towards a remorseful cheater who genuinely is sorry for what they have done but somebody who betrays another person's trusty like that and feels no remorse or even worse tries to act like they are the victim get no compassion for me. Where is the compassion for the person who devoted their trust, time and in many cases years of their life towards somebody who takes that and just craps all over it? They are who I have sympathy for. Why am I wrong because I save my compassion for the actual victim?

[Mrs. John Adams]

Selfish..I actually wrote out a long dissertation and deleted it.

[Ralph79]

I find it completely offensive when people use pedophilia as an example for infidelity.

 

Pedophile is not on the same level nor should it ever be compared to infidelity

 

I sincerely apologize if I offended you, but your reaction proved my point.

 

People have different scales to gauge the severity of sins. We can't expect all of us to view them equally. Or expect equal understanding of others bad choices, when some were terribly affected by them.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Woggle ...you are not wrong.

 

I have compassion for both.

 

No one is the winner in infidelity. It is not us against them. I cry for all. I cry for the WS ..because I know how they feel...and I cry for the bs because I know how they feel...

[Selfish]

I can have some compassion towards a remorseful cheater who genuinely is sorry for what they have done but somebody who betrays another person's trusty like that and feels no remorse or even worse tries to act like they are the victim get no compassion for me. Where is the compassion for the person who devoted their trust, time and in many cases years of their life towards somebody who takes that and just craps all over it? They are who I have sympathy for. Why am I wrong because I save my compassion for the actual victim?

 

Oh it is true. For example when I see an ow who is completely broken over an affair ended badly and owning her sht in it and looking at herself and how she got herself there I feel nothing but compassion understanding that I screwed up. But when the OW confesses no remorse over the pain she caused? Well honestly my sympathy plummets. And the same for WS. But many people couldncare less if a person is remorseful or not. All they care about is that they did the deed and will forever be a lost soul that is unredeemable. Not a very encouraging attitude for making good choices here on out.

 

Seriel cheaters such as xMM have not much sympathy from me. Pity maybe. His wife has even less as a seriel cheater because of how she feels she is better than me because her partners have been single.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Ralph...i understand what you are saying. How about if we hate the sin...but show compassion to the sinner?

 

Does that work?

[Selfish]

I sincerely apologize if I offended you, but your reaction proved my point.

 

People have different scales to gauge the severity of sins. We can't expect all of us to view them equally. Or expect equal understanding of others bad choices, when some were terribly affected by them.

 

No, it doesnt. Not only is pedophile on its own wrong level such as seriel killers. Both are done by truly disoredered people. They are not comparable in the least.

[JohnAdams]

I think the strange thing about cheating is that most people do not realize the ramifications that come from infidelity. You see infidelity all the time on television and in the movies. Many of us even knew people who may have cheated, but, if it did not have a big impact on you personally, there is a good chance you never thought much about it.

 

I never gave much thought to the consequences of cheating prior to my wives affair. I think we had one or two of those hypothetical disscussions of what we would do if the other cheated. I think those discussion were just more of an interesting discussion than really seriously considering the consequences.

 

We all know the horrors of murder, child abuse and other horific crimes. I do not think we give the same thought to cheating until it happens to us. Many on this forum have experienced infidelity as a ws, bs or both. So, those of us who have experience it have a different opinion than those without this experience.

 

Adultery is the worst thing I have ever expereinced in my life. Prior to this experience, I knew it was wrong, but really never gave much thought to it.

[Selfish]

I think the strange thing about cheating is that most people do not realize the ramifications that come from infidelity. You see infidelity all the time on television and in the movies. Many of us even knew people who may have cheated, but, if it did not have a big impact on you personally, there is a good chance you never thought much about it.

 

I never gave much thought to the consequences of cheating prior to my wives affair. I think we had one or two of those hypothetical disscussions of what we would do if the other cheated. I think those discussion were just more of an interesting discussion than really seriously considering the consequences.

 

We all know the horrors of murder, child abuse and other horific crimes. I do not think we give the same thought to cheating until it happens to us. Many on this forum have experienced infidelity as a ws, bs or both. So, those of us who have experience it have a different opinion than those without this experience.

 

Adultery is the worst thing I have ever expereinced in my life. Prior to this experience, I knew it was wrong, but really never gave much thought to it.

It is true. All that matters for me personally that it is the worst thing I have done. But I am not a pedophile or a seriel killer. There is no need to remove me from society for the wellbeing of others. Nor should it be compared to pedophilia. That is just pure selfish thinking.

[Woggle]

I know people who still can't trust a member of the opposite sex in a relationship years after being cheated on. Before people cheat they need to think of what that betrayal does to a person.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I guess what I keep coming back to in my mind is the title of this thread...cheaters with personality disorders.

 

And I guess where I take offense is that it insinuates that those who commit adultery have a personality disorder...while those who don't commit adultery are fine.

 

While I have confessed to being flawed, to making poor judgments, bad choices, betraying my husband.....I don't think I have a personality disorder and it really is insulting to me.

 

And my point has been to say that all of us have flaws and none of us is better than the other because we are all human and have the same potential to do something we regret.

 

yes...infidelity is a horrible horrible thing...but it is not unforgivable. I regret what I did..I cannot undo it...I have paid for it and will continue to do so the rest of my life. But you are not a better person than I am or superior to me because I committed adultery.

Edited February 20, 2015 by Mrs. John Adams

[Ralph79]

@Selfish

 

If you analyze my post, I'm not putting Adultery on the same plane of depravity as pedophilia or as you state killing.

 

What I was trying to say was , just as it is unfair to clump up Adultery with something so vile and abhorrent as Ped & Kills, it's unfair to clump up sex out of wedlock, driving without a license, smoking and drinking with Adultery.

 

Just wanted to clarify that.

 

 

@Mrs. John Adams

 

I hope you understand I'm not upset or anything. I simply wanted to point these things in general, because some posters out there feel like this:

 

However, to say that anyone is capable is insulting to me, personally. I have done a lot of work on myself over the years to overcome my family of origin issues.

 

So I was speaking out for them so that we avoid generalizing. I'm sure others share this posters feelings too.

 

But I agree. Hate the sin.

 

@JohnAdams

 

Completely agree if the couple is able to reconcile and do their best to protect the kids. That was my case. But my aunt (Mother's sister) was left by her Husband who left to be with the OW. She had to raise a 14, 10 & 6 year old daughters along with a newborn son. They did felt the effect of the Affair when the Husband showed up on occasion just to pay a visit and my aunt would kick him out of their house screaming.