Cheaters with personality disorders

[Ralph79]

adultery have a personality disorder...while those who don't commit adultery are fine.

 

While I have confessed to being flawed, to making poor judgments, bad choices, betraying my husband.....I don't think I have a personality disorder and it really is insulting to me.

 

You have a right to be offended and insulted.

 

To say that someone who suffers form a PD is a cheater in the making is a false and illogical statement.

 

To say that someone who cheats suffers from a PD, is also a false and illogical statement.

 

Just because some cheaters have had PD in the past shouldn't entitle anyone to jump to illogical and false conclusions.

 

And I'll discourage and be very vocal against these claims in the future when I run into posts that make them.

[autumnnight]

Selfish and Mrs. Adams....I've been on this particular righteous train ride numerous times. No matter how heartfelt or well worded your posts, you're not gonna get through.

 

It really IS exactly like those church ladies with the pursed lips and straight backs saying "bless your heart" to the lesser saints. Nothing you say or feel will make a difference.

[merrmeade]

I see why so many drop out of this topic and why some never join. Good for Ralph for trying to clarify the logic. The uselessness of the volatility and defensiveness makes me sad.

 

It seems the ones who did cheat assume that those who say they would never cheat are being petty, vengeful or hurtful by "rubbing it in." You indicate it sounds like arrogant boasting. The ones convinced they wouldn't cheat feel this fact makes their betrayal all the more unjust and hurtful.

 

There's no proving anyone right or wrong here, just logical or valid, as Ralph tried to do. Those who said they'd never cheat can't prove it. Those who don't believe that can't prove the first group will cheat.

 

I think the only thing I've learned is that no one is interested in my non-adulterous past or the unlikelihood of adultery in my future, and, if I bring it up, only another BS will understand it in terms of injustice and disrespect>

 

I actually agree with all of this:

Oh it is true. For example when I see an ow who is completely broken over an affair ended badly and owning her sht in it and looking at herself and how she got herself there I feel nothing but compassion understanding that I screwed up. But when the OW confesses no remorse over the pain she caused? Well honestly my sympathy plummets. And the same for WS.

...

Seriel cheaters such as xMM have not much sympathy from me. Pity maybe. His wife has even less as a seriel cheater because of how she feels she is better than me because her partners have been single.

But this is simply not true:

But many people could care less if a person is remorseful or not. All they care about is that they did the deed and will forever be a lost soul that is unredeemable. Not a very encouraging attitude for making good choices here on out

. These are unfounded assumptions, exagerrated. Such sweeping generalization is weird. Just weird. No one said or implied anything like that. I don't understand why you need to be so inflammatory, S? But like I said before. In a way it's good to see how defensive people can be. I think most BSs need the remorse desperately. They're in a position of powerlessness, and, instead, you give them some kind of absurd power to judge, condemn and destroy civilization as we know it. Why would they stick around for more abuse? What did they do to the WS, OW/M to deserve such resentment on top of the infidelity?

 

Everyone agrees that it's the serial cheater is the one who tends to TT, rug-sweep and guard himself against being revealed.

Edited February 20, 2015 by merrmeade

[Ralph79]

@merrmeade

 

Thank you for taking the time to read my posts and understanding the message I was trying to convey.

 

This is a public forum for open discussion. I understand that some of us might be going through recent turmoil. Some have tried to heal for several years. I get that people will be upset and even rude at others upon reading conflicting points of view, for the most part because of their past experiences.

 

We're all hurting. And I understand even the most hateful posts sometimes are a desperate scream for help. I personally don't take offense to them. People need to be able to freely express whatever they feel as long as long as they don't abuse or restrict other's liberty to do the same. And I will continue sharing my opinion, hoping it doesn't get twisted into things I never meant to say.

 

I used to back down when people talked back aggressively to me, or started insulting. Even when I had a more accurate assessment of a situation. As an exercise in personal development, I have stopped doing so. I will stand my ground to defend my point of view, unless I am convinced otherwise, which is the reason I'm even here. And I will not purposely deride someone for expressing an opinion contrary to my own. If others want to do it, it's their choice.

[autumnnight]

@merrmeade

 

Thank you for taking the time to read my posts and understanding the message I was trying to convey.

 

This is a public forum for open discussion. I understand that some of us might be going through recent turmoil. Some have tried to heal for several years. I get that people will be upset and even rude at others upon reading conflicting points of view, for the most part because of their past experiences.

 

We're all hurting. And I understand even the most hateful posts sometimes are a desperate scream for help. I personally don't take offense to them. People need to be able to freely express whatever they feel as long as long as they don't abuse or restrict other's liberty to do the same. And I will continue sharing my opinion, hoping it doesn't get twisted into things I never meant to say.

 

I used to back down when people talked back aggressively to me, or started insulting. Even when I had a more accurate assessment of a situation. As an exercise in personal development, I have stopped doing so. I will stand my ground to defend my point of view, unless I am convinced otherwise, which is the reason I'm even here. And I will not purposely deride someone for expressing an opinion contrary to my own. If others want to do it, it's their choice.

 

This is a good post...as long as we can all see the fact that rudeness and anger come from ALL sides. Not just one. I for example am not a WS, but even I can spot self-righteousness and categorizing of sin when I see it. I believe the Bible, and the same Bible that says not to commit adultery says do not fornicate and do not be drunk with wine. I don't expect anyone who doesn't share my faith to feel that way. But anyone who claims to be a Bible believing Christian who gives a pass to the latter while making the former the apex of sin....well, let's just say they must be reading a different Bible. There's a list in Proverbs of things God hates. Adultery isn't on it, but haughty eyes and a proud heart are.

[truncated]

Posted in another thread:

 

Major character flaws and personality disorders all cheaters have. IMHO of course.

 

I'm often T/Jing so rather than do that again.....

 

What do you think, all cheaters? Most? Many?

 

I totally respect the BS that posted and BS that supported this but I'm in the camp that not all or most cheaters are so disordered. I think it is all too common to be swept away by the infatuation feelings and go down a slippery slope, one step at a time and then find yourself deep in an A. Or even without infatuation, that to be tempted by just the right person at just the right time under just the right circumstances, that you would fail to live up to your standards and say no.

 

Sure, serial cheaters, predatory cheaters, are likely to be very disordered people. All cheaters though?

 

 

I think there are many reasons for cheating, and some who cheat may do so because of personailtiy disorderes, but that doesn't mean that's a factor in every situation.

 

For some people, it might beceasier to blame it on some sort of disorder than it is to accept responsibility for their own, or their spouses, choices.

 

 

Taking that a bit further, in cases where a disorder is at the root cause of cheating, dependin upong the type of personality disorder, is it likley to be a behavior that gets repeated? Is a betrayed spouse in that situation better off accepting that and calling it quits and leaving?

 

I don't know that many people who I know for sure have a perosnality disorder. I know one who has been diagnosed with borderline personality disorder. She seems to almost get caught up in these cycles of needing validation, sort of like a bottomless pit that no one can ever fill. She cheated on her husband ( a lot of one night stands) and ended up leaving him because she didn't want to hurt him anymore. She has been getting a lot of therapy, and she and her exhusband both really do love each other, but it was just too poainful for both of them to stay married.

[Ralph79]

This is a good post...as long as we can all see the fact that rudeness and anger come from ALL sides. Not just one. I for example am not a WS, but even I can spot self-righteousness and categorizing of sin when I see it. I believe the Bible, and the same Bible that says not to commit adultery says do not fornicate and do not be drunk with wine. I don't expect anyone who doesn't share my faith to feel that way. But anyone who claims to be a Bible believing Christian who gives a pass to the latter while making the former the apex of sin....well, let's just say they must be reading a different Bible. There's a list in Proverbs of things God hates. Adultery isn't on it, but haughty eyes and a proud heart are.

 

Autumnight,

 

I'm not an expert in religion, so I'll cite my source for this comment/opinion:

 

From Wikipedia:

 

The Ten Commandments, also known as the Decalogue, are a set of biblical principles relating to ethics and worship, which play a fundamental role in Judaism and Christianity.

 

One of those is: "Thou shalt not commit adultery"

Another is: "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s." just for good measure.

 

"thou shalt not murder" & "Thou shalt not steal", are also on this very short list. One would assume God would find Adultery as destructive as these two if it was mention as one of the 10 principles to live by. I don't see fornication or being drunk being specifically mentioned there.

 

I agree, it shouldn't get a pass. No sins should (That should be the way in theory at least). The only thing I don't agree with is that fornicating and getting drunk should be comparable to adultery. That is all I'm saying. Nothing more nothing less.

[autumnnight]

Autumnight,

 

I'm not an expert in religion, so I'll cite my source for this comment/opinion:

 

From Wikipedia:

 

The Ten Commandments, also known as the Decalogue, are a set of biblical principles relating to ethics and worship, which play a fundamental role in Judaism and Christianity.

 

One of those is: "Thou shalt not commit adultery"

Another is: "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s." just for good measure.

 

"thou shalt not murder" & "Thou shalt not steal", are also on this very short list. One would assume God would find Adultery as destructive as these two if it was mention as one of the 10 principles to live by. I don't see fornication or being drunk being specifically mentioned there.

 

I agree, it shouldn't get a pass. No sins should (That should be the way in theory at least). The only thing I don't agree with is that fornicating and getting drunk should be comparable to adultery. That is all I'm saying. Nothing more nothing less.

 

There are 66 books in the Bible, and a Christian supposedly believes all of them, especially the New Testament. But that is neither here nor there. Like I said, if someone does not profess Christianity, I don't have a problem with them arranging sins however makes them feel best. But if you're gonna go around proclaiming Christianity, don't tell me cheating is wrong but banging all your boyfriends is fine. And before anyone does the whole "but fornication is not betrayal" dance, when you violate God's Word as a Christian you're betraying God. Yep, I'd say that's a pretty big deal.

 

Like I said to Selfish and Mrs. Adams, there are people who need to categorize themselves as a different, better sort of person than a former cheater. I understand that, and I'm not going to change their minds.

 

However, there is no actual scientific evidence that everyone who cheats has a PD, so any blanket statement to that effect is inaccurate, illogical, and completely emotion-based.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Selfish and Mrs. Adams....I've been on this particular righteous train ride numerous times. No matter how heartfelt or well worded your posts, you're not gonna get through.

 

It really IS exactly like those church ladies with the pursed lips and straight backs saying "bless your heart" to the lesser saints. Nothing you say or feel will make a difference.

 

Here is my point....I was that church lady....

 

Autumn I hear you..I know exactly what you are saying.

[Ralph79]

There are 66 books in the Bible, and a Christian supposedly believes all of them, especially the New Testament. But that is neither here nor there. Like I said, if someone does not profess Christianity, I don't have a problem with them arranging sins however makes them feel best. But if you're gonna go around proclaiming Christianity, don't tell me cheating is wrong but banging all your boyfriends is fine. And before anyone does the whole "but fornication is not betrayal" dance, when you violate God's Word as a Christian you're betraying God. Yep, I'd say that's a pretty big deal.

 

Like I said to Selfish and Mrs. Adams, there are people who need to categorize themselves as a different, better sort of person than a former cheater. I understand that, and I'm not going to change their minds.

 

However, there is no actual scientific evidence that everyone who cheats has a PD, so any blanket statement to that effect is inaccurate, illogical, and completely emotion-based.

 

autumnnight,

 

I never posted anything on this thread proclaiming to be a Christian.

 

From a spiritual standpoint, all I mentioned was I believed we are all God's children and that we are all equal, regardless of our choices. And that all sins IMO are not equal.

 

Why you claimed that I assumed that makes me a better person, or how that makes me one of your church ladies with the pursed lips and straight backs saying "bless your heart" to the lesser saints, is really something I don't understand.

 

Because:

 

"But if you're gonna go around proclaiming Christianity,"

I never did.

 

"don't tell me cheating is wrong but banging all your boyfriends is fine."

I never tried to tell you that either.

 

I actually hate bringing any specific religion into arguments of what's right and wrong since it's so subjective given all the religions in the world out there.

[merrmeade]

That's evident, Ralph, in your careful adherence to objectivity and logic, but I think this discussion has run out of even your ability to nurture healthy and helpful dialogue.

 

Autumnight, you're making assumptions again, I'm afraid. The Bible may have shaped judeo-christian civilization, but the moral codes in the Old Testament are common to other cultures as well. Parenting is more important in my opinion. For example, I am not a christian (or jew), but my parents and early family life influenced my adult beliefs about marriage. My mother was a teacher and used psychology, biology, anthropology to explain her values. I didn't buy into everything and make lots of mistakes in other areas, but the monogamy model took. Her explanation of nurturing mature love in a committed relationship was good. She said sexual urges and friendship with the opposite sex help us (in western societies) find a mate and after that we use self-awareness and control circumstances to prevent those same natural urges and feelings going to other potential candidates. This is my adult explanation of the concept, but I remember the talks well. She even shared a personal example of developing a friendship with a co-worker that she realized she'd have to squelch. That was a bit hard to hear for a 12-year-old, but the point went home.

 

This manner of parenting was helpful. I'll be grateful into eternity and beyond for it. My husband not only didn't have anyone to develop this understanding, he had awful, dysfunctional experiences that gave him narcissistic tendencies and other personality issues.

 

I agree that one-time adulterers are not in the same category as serial cheaters. So maybe that's what the thread has established?

Edited February 20, 2015 by merrmeade

[autumnnight]

autumnnight,

 

I never posted anything on this thread proclaiming to be a Christian.

 

From a spiritual standpoint, all I mentioned was I believed we are all God's children and that we are all equal, regardless of our choices. And that all sins IMO are not equal.

 

Why you claimed that I assumed that makes me a better person, or how that makes me one of your church ladies with the pursed lips and straight backs saying "bless your heart" to the lesser saints, is really something I don't understand.

 

Because:

 

"But if you're gonna go around proclaiming Christianity,"

I never did.

 

"don't tell me cheating is wrong but banging all your boyfriends is fine."

I never tried to tell you that either.

 

I actually hate bringing any specific religion into arguments of what's right and wrong since it's so subjective given all the religions in the world out there.

 

I apologize, Ralph. Honestly, I wasn't even referring to you, but to the countless women I have encountered who will use spiritual, moral, and when all else fails, intellectual "superiority model" to imply that, quite frankly, all humans are better than those who have cheated.

 

As someone with experience in psychology herself, I just get tired of the irresponsible proclamations made regarding cheaters and mental illness. Bottom line, you can be a valuable human being and STILL go through a dark time of making horrific choices.

 

I'm not angry, I'm just resigned.

[Ralph79]

That's evident, Ralph, in your careful adherence to objectivity and logic, but I think this discussion has run out of even your ability to nurture healthy and helpful dialogue.

 

Autumnight, you're making assumptions again, I'm afraid. The Bible may have shaped judeo-christian civilization, but the moral codes in the Old Testament are common to other cultures as well. Parenting is more important in my opinion. For example, I am not a christian (or jew), but my parents and early family life influenced my adult beliefs about marriage. My mother was a teacher and used psychology, biology, anthropology to explain her values. I didn't buy into everything and make lots of mistakes in other areas, but the monogamy model took. Her explanation of nurturing mature love in a committed relationship was good. She said sexual urges and friendship with the opposite sex help us (in western societies) find a mate and after that we use self-awareness and control circumstances to prevent those same natural urges and feelings going to other potential candidates. This is my adult explanation of the concept, but I remember the talks well. She even shared a personal example of developing a friendship with a co-worker that she realized she'd have to squelch. That was a bit hard to hear for a 12-year-old, but the point went home.

 

This manner of parenting was helpful. I'll be grateful into eternity and beyond for it. My husband not only didn't have anyone to develop this understanding, he had awful, dysfunctional experiences that gave him narcissistic tendencies and other personality issues.

 

I agree that one-time adulterers are not in the same category as serial cheaters. So maybe that's what the thread has established?

 

I couldn't agree more with your statement about parenting. IMO it's the foundation NOT of the choices we make in life, but of how we go about making our choices.

 

I'm no psychologist, but I believe I once heard one say that all Personality Disorders are born from Trauma or poor parenting (I'm assuming btw, not claiming its fact).

 

I think (My opinion, not fact), that the choices we make are influenced by society and our peers. But the way we go about making those choices, our capacity to foresee every aspect of the consequences of those choices comes from parenting.

[Ralph79]

Bottom line, you can be a valuable human being and STILL go through a dark time of making horrific choices.

 

I'm not angry, I'm just resigned.

 

Couldn't agree more. I'd say people are always valuable regardless of what they do.

 

I say that because I think the capacity/potential to contribute/redeem themselves always exists. I don't believe anyone is born inherently evil to be quite honest. I do believe a few have had mental disorders that when put into position of personal power have caused some great harm, but I chose to believe there is good in all of us.

 

For the record, I was raised as a Catholic, and I lost my faith in the institution that runs my religion, when I went to the Vatican and I felt disappointed after witnessing the majestic surroundings they have built over centuries. The commercialization of it all. Deep down, I can't picture Jesus Christ preaching from such lofty platforms, when history has recounted him as being humble.

 

That was my choice. I still respect Catholics. I respect the religion. I respect the Pope and all Preachers of all religions, because I see a lot of people who have found peace of mind and happiness through their faith in them. It simply just doesn't work for me anymore.

 

And if you weren't referring to me, there's no need to apologize. Like I said there's a lot to learn from different viewpoints in these forums. I enjoy it. I have changed my stance on posts sometimes because I have been made aware of situations I didn't see before. That to me is the reasons I keep coming here.

 

That's the whole point of open debate for me.

 

Cheer up.

 

*Hugs*

[merrmeade]

Parenting may be first and hard to replace or make up for lack of it, but second step is adult choices. Healthy adults don't accept all their parent's values just because they are their parents'. They make mistakes, think, examine, choose what's right for them. So let an affair be one of those mistakes. it's what you do with the mistake that counts - like what Mrs. Adams did. That means more almost than not making a mistake in the first place imho. Well, maybe that's not a good thought for Mr. Adams, but their love is more and better now, isn't it?

[JohnAdams]

Mr. Adams, but their love is more and better now, isn't it?

 

Yes, it !!!!

[Confused48]

Before I say anything, I want to state that I personally enjoy the debates that go on in these threads when they are conducted in a respectful manner.

 

Agreed. And thank you for your civility and thoughtfulness.

 

What I wanted to point out for the sake of context was this:

 

You stated that those who commit transgressions such as driving under the influence, smoke, drink alcohol underage, do drugs, should be understanding of those who commit adultery, because it's a sin as well.

 

To be fair to Mrs JA, she did say driving while intoxicated. Which is tantamount to vehicular homicide. Homicide of any kind, (other than a BS killing an AP) I will say, I think, is far worse than most kinds of adultery.

 

(kidding about that one part, sort of... )

 

To some posters the concept of cheating is so unacceptable as the latter sin is to most of us (if not all of us). Why? Because some posters learned firsthand the consequences of adultery and have profound aversion towards it, because of personal permanent scars that will forever stay with them. For them cheating is on the same level as the worst sin on earth.

 

So bc we are all so blessed as to have an affair in our lives, that makes it ok for us to be more judgmental about it? The same logic would require that it is ok to be judgemental about a person J-walking if we have special history with that particular crime.

 

"The first people who will say everyone is capable of cheating, are cheaters themselves."

 

This not nice at all. Trying to hush debate by shaming those that take a contrary position. I am not a WS and many who have posted in kind to what I have said, are not WSs either.

 

It really IS exactly like those church ladies with the pursed lips and straight backs saying "bless your heart" to the lesser saints. Nothing you say or feel will make a difference.

 

There are a great many such church ladies (and church men) who's pride lead them to a fall. One here now that we know of, besides Mrs. JA, that is Badkarma's wife.

[Woggle]

My views on cheating have nothing whatsoever to do with religion. The way I see is that if you can't be honest with the person you pledged love and devotion to and possible the mother or father of your kids then who can you be honest with? If they can't trust you then who can?

[Ralph79]

To be fair to Mrs JA, she did say driving while intoxicated. Which is tantamount to vehicular homicide. Homicide of any kind, (other than a BS killing an AP) I will say, I think, is far worse than most kinds of adultery.

 

I agree. Thanks for the enlightenment. I think purposely doing anything that you know could very easily, result in someone's death as a consequence of your direct actions is a crime as bad or worse than infidelity. And DUI definitely fits that criteria. So it is a greater offense than merely driving without a license and I shouldn't group it together as a comparable offense either, and won't do so in the future.

 

 

So bc we are all so blessed as to have an affair in our lives, that makes it ok for us to be more judgmental about it? The same logic would require that it is ok to be judgemental about a person J-walking if we have special history with that particular crime.

I'm sorry, this is my fault and I can totally understand why you would interpret what I said the way you did.

 

When I said:

 

"some posters learned firsthand the consequences of adultery and have profound aversion towards it, because of personal permanent scars that will forever stay with them. For them cheating is on the same level as the worst sin on earth."

 

I meant it from a victim's standpoint. A child who say his family destroyed due to adultery. Someone who saw a friend commit suicide when he found out his wife was cheating on him. I didn't mean the adulterer himself. But I wasn't clear on that.

 

This not nice at all. Trying to hush debate by shaming those that take a contrary position. I am not a WS and many who have posted in kind to what I have said, are not WSs either.

Context my friend. I echoed that quote immediately after saying:

 

"I was talking about this topic with a friend today and he said something I can't prove to be true but it's relevant to this post:"

 

So I believe I'm promoting others to chime in on it, before repeating what was told to me. I fail to see how I'm hushing, when I myself admit I can't prove it to be true, but merely found it relevant for the sake of this discussion.

[Quiet Storm]

All this talk of religion, so I have a question for the believers... I am trying to be very respectful, so I hope I do not offend.

 

Are kids in religious households learning how to cope with stress, disappointment, adversity, grief, temptation, loneliness, sadness, insecurities, etc. in constructive ways? Or do they only rely on prayer and religion?

 

I raise my kids with an absence of religion. I teach them to be introspective and self aware. To recognize circumstances, situations or people that will make them vulnerable and weak, and to have a plan for what to do and how to cope in those situations. I want them to rely on themselves first and foremost- to have standards for their behavior and personal integrity. Not because they are afraid of hell or judgement, but because they want to be good, honest people. I want them to have faith in themselves, that they will do the right thing... and I try to give them the tools and model the behavior that will help them succeed and be well balanced adults.

 

Are religious kids learning healthy thought processes and coping skills, or do followers believe that all that matters is following the rules/commandments/proverbs? Are they taught "pray about it and it will be OK"? I understand prayer is comforting and can be a healthy coping skill, but is any constructive insight provided, such as learning the whys & how to prevent & avoid unhealthy behavior?

 

Since I am not religious, I don't think of behavior in terms of sins, proverbs or commandments. I think in terms of "is this behavior healthy for me?" and that would apply to anything- booze, drugs, cheating, sex, porn, etc. The focus on which sin is worse may matter in religion, but if you take sin out of it... hurtful behavior is really just different manifestations of the same thing- unresolved issues.

 

I don't believe most cheaters have personality disorders, but I would say the majority certainly have unresolved issues. And when I say that I don't mean to imply that "issues" mean deficient, as we ALL have unresolved issues. It's just up to us to work on them, or our issues can harm our loved ones. Do you think that religious cheaters may focus so much on the degree of their sin and being forgiven in the eyes of God, that they don't address those unresolved issues that made them vulnerable in the first place?

[JohnAdams]

Even for those who are not religious, I think most of us have a sense of right and wrong, a basis of ethics and principles to which we live.

 

I do believe sometimes, those raised in religious homes are sometimes sheltered from "evil". Our daughter home schools our grandchildren. She used a Christian based curriculum. Our grandkids are sheltered from the "mean" kids at school. I sometimes wonder if they have enough information to protect themselves from naive trust as they get older.

 

Those who do cheat that are religious do not only betray their spouse and familiy but also betray their God.

[Confused48]

Perhaps we could take the religious debate to another thread? Seems a bit of a T/J.

[Timshel]

My views on cheating have nothing whatsoever to do with religion. The way I see is that if you can't be honest with the person you pledged love and devotion to and possible the mother or father of your kids then who can you be honest with? If they can't trust you then who can?

 

If you discover the person you pledged your love and devotion to and is the parent of your child is someone that you can not trust.

Get a divorce is an easy answer to a complex dynamic, especially if children are involved. Then there are always professional/financial reasons, in-laws and social status.

I always find it simplistic to insist that a WS would have the foresight to seek divorce before finding comfort elsewhere. Assuming WS is not a serial cheater but instead disillusioned and miserable; that divorce would come naturally for a human in marriage seems idealistic.

[Confused48]

If you discover the person you pledged your love and devotion to and is the parent of your child is someone that you can not trust.

Get a divorce is an easy answer to a complex dynamic, especially if children are involved. Then there are always professional/financial reasons, in-laws and social status.

I always find it simplistic to insist that a WS would have the foresight to seek divorce before finding comfort elsewhere. Assuming WS is not a serial cheater but instead disillusioned and miserable; that divorce would come naturally for a human in marriage seems idealistic.

 

As a BS I am sickened by the choice my WS made instead of D. I expected honorable actions. I got much less. As a human being though I can feel sympathy and compassion. After all, how many BS do we see here who suffer along after Dday, felling like divorcing. And don't.

 

Before I get blasted, I'm not saying that for a BS to stay after Dday is dishonorable, like cheating. I'm just saying, faced with a situation where we all thought we would D, we sometimes don't.

[Timshel]

As a BS I am sickened by the choice my WS made instead of D. I expected honorable actions. I got much less. As a human being though I can feel sympathy and compassion. After all, how many BS do we see here who suffer along after Dday, felling like divorcing. And don't.

 

Before I get blasted, I'm not saying that for a BS to stay after Dday is dishonorable, like cheating. I'm just saying, faced with a situation where we all thought we would D, we sometimes don't.

 

Yes, I agree. That's what I mean, that woulda, coulda, shoulda. Objectivity does provide clarity. It's why LS is so helpful. What seems obvious to an outsider is not for the party/ies involved.

Humans fumble about sometimes doing exactly the correct/moral thing, sometimes not. Confusion, hurt, panic and fear can cloud senses.

I don't think most cheaters have a PD. Some do, some are just incredibly selfish and some are trying to self soothe, run from pain or just in a crappy place and not dealing with it well.

Saying get a divorce if you want to cheat to a person who is not self aware or lucid of their own motivations is a correct suggestion lost on a lost person.

The good news is for many cheaters it is not a permanent state, eventually the ship is righted, lucidity returns. Of course then there is all that damage to mend.

It's such an old, old problem, sloppy and complex. Humanity will continue to debate infidelity indefinitely.