AP's are to blame for A too

[purplesorrow]

I wouldn't use the word blame for the ow as she wasn't accountable to me. I do feel she knowingly and willingly participated in hurting me and my family. But if she can live with doing that, then I really have no choice but to live with it too. She really is a non factor. Just as I didn't matter to her, she doesn't to me. She used that usual quote about not being the one who made vows to me. I agreed.

[Sassy Girl]

There's an old adage...."it takes two to tango"

 

I would think that applies here.

 

It's a ****ty decision to sleep with someone else's spouse. And once you do, you are definitely the biggest problem in the marriage. Don't want that accountability? Don't sleep with a married person.

 

But APs are kidding themselves of they think they can have an affair with a married person and still maintain that they've done nothing wrong.

[VeryBrokenMan]

The blame for the affair rest solely on the affair partners equally. I hold my wife 50% responsible and the OM 50%. She made the choice to accept his advances.

 

I think a case can be made that the OM shares more of the blame, he obviously knew she was married and still pursued her. And obviously women typically are not the aggressor (and I know from texts my wife was not).

 

But in the end he chose to go after her and she chose to accept so I see it as 50/50.

 

The BS is never at fault for the affair. I believe that affairs are the result of a unfaithful spouses view of the world and what they believe they are entitled to. Many people are in unhappy marriages and don't cheat. And many couples have unmet needs and don't cheat. So it comes down to what the cheater chooses for themselves without regard for their spouse's needs or happiness.

[Sub]

The other person could have been anybody, if your spouse wants to cheat, they will. It rarely truly has anything to do with the person they actually did it with.

 

I disagree with this. I think in most cases, it's a variety of circumstances that made the A possible. Near the top of that list is familiarity with the AP, either personally or professionally.

[Davey L]

Personally, I find myself able to multi-task and be upset with both the bank robber and the getaway driver simultaneously.

 

The bank robber / getaway driver analogy isn't quite right. It's the bank manager robbing the bank and the getaway driver that would be closer. The manager is the one trusted with the money and who has betrayed the bank. The bank had no expectation of loyalty on the getaway driver. The driver is a crook and culpable, but it is the manager that committed the real betrayal of trust.

[Woggle]

The thing I don't get is how an OM or OW acts shocked when the cheater does the same thing. They are just shocked and astounded when a cheater ends up letting them down.

[preraph]

I think it can go either way. It's the married person who has the most responsibility to handle things correctly. I know I was pulled into a separation because I was friends with the guy and he was frantic needing me after his wife cheated on him and they decided to separate. I did everything to dissuade him. I didn't know what all she had done at the time and just kept telling him I thought they were good together and trying to get him to go home. Then when it was clear he wouldn't, I told him I didn't want to be the first person he dated. I had my own issues at the time, recently heartbroken and still very much broken from it and was not in love with but loved as a friend this guy who was leaving his marriage. He shouldn't have put me in the middle of it. I hadn't and didn't sleep with him until months after that. But to his ex-wife, I'm the other woman, even though she was the only one cheating at the time, though it's true he did have women as friends he was close to. My best guess is she thought he was cheating (there was a woman out of state openly hitting on him he might have been stupid enough to tell her about) and then retaliated by cheating on him.

[Quiet Storm]

I agree that it's up to the spouse to remain faithful, and to honor, respect and protect their marriage.

 

It's also up to us as individuals to have a good character- to not steal, to be honest, to keep our promises, to avoid behavior that is harmful to others, etc.

 

The AP, while they may not feel they owe anything to the BS personally, is making a choice to involve themselves with a married person. So regardless if WS would've picked another AP, that particular AP is the one that did choose this for themselves and their life. And if you are an individual that lives your life trying to be a good person, choosing to be in an affair is clearly a choice that is not only likely to harm others, but bring harm to themselves, as well. It's like if a tornado blew the doors off a jewelry store, would you choose to steal just because if you don't, others will? If you did steal, would "someone else would've done it anyway" be a valid defense? No, we are all responsible for our own choices and actions.

 

I think most OW do not have malicious intent towards BS, but use defense mechanisms such as denial, rationalization and bargaining to justify it in their minds. They want that connection with the WS so bad, that their brains find ways to make it OK, in spite of most them feeling affairs are wrong.

 

Most OP will admit in their early posts something like "I know affairs are wrong" or "this goes against my values". Over time, you can see in their writing that they push those thoughts away, and their feelings, emotions and the connection become their focus. The values they were raised with and consideration for others (how they would feel if someone were to that to them) evaporate in the drama of the push pull relationship, and it evolves into something very much like an addiction.

 

Think of an addict, they'll rob their own mom to get that fix. An affair is very similar because the lies, being sneaky and detaching from feelings like shame or guilt end up being "normalized" as time goes on. So you often end up with an AP that is simply chasing the high and seeking the comfort that the WS (their drug) provides them, with no insight into how their behavior goes against their values and how it is a reflection of the person that they truly are. Because no matter how many times an AP says "affairs are wrong" or "I deserve more than being OW", actions speak louder than words.

 

WS is clearly responsible for not protecting their marriage and having an affair. But this doesn't reduce the responsibility of AP to be a considerate person, nor does it negate their own poor choices, malicious or not.

Edited February 18, 2015 by Quiet Storm

[truncated]

i was a BS once upon a time and i disagree with you.

 

in my opinion, a 3rd person can never be the reason your relationship or marriage failed. they're usually just a symptom of deeper & unrelated problems. i never cared for the OW, she was completely irrelevant to me. i never once even thought about her, never even asked for her name... that's just how much i wasn't bothered. it was my xH who betrayed me and i focused on him.

 

the only person who is to blame for the affair is the person who cheated - not the BS, not the other affair partner. HOWEVER... the BS can be guilty for the problems in marriage that were there prior to the A & eventually created space for the A to happen.

 

if you refuse to touch your wife and sleep with her, if you're rude to her and abusive towards her - don't be susprised that she looked elsewhere. if you were a bad spouse, then you're guilty for the problems that eventually led to your partner being unhappy and turning to someone else. of course, there are people who are really good spouses and bear no guilt. every situation is different.

 

what i don't understand... how can you blame the OW/OM? your spouse can always say no & do the right thing... so how can it be the other person's fault when they don't even know you or bear no responsibility for you?

 

 

Following your logic, no mm/mw is reponsibel for the pain of the ow or om. After all, he or she had the choice to get involved with a married person. Who cares if they are lied to and told the marriage is over/ they are separated/ I'll leave to be with you. They should ahve known better than to trust that person, and any apin they feel is all on them because they should have known better. after all, if mm/mw can say no, then so can ow/om.

 

How does that sound? Foolish? Of course it is.

[Selfish]

I really do not know your full story to really make a comment on it. If you feel bad then really that is up to you. If his wife stayed with him that was her choice as well. I just think that there are very few cheaters that really deserve a second chance. I think the first step should be divorce and then if there is a chance to reconcile it takes place after the divorce.

 

Clay

 

Meh the last part of your statment seem more like a control issue and waste of money if you know you want to give a second chance. And unnecesarily disruptive to the children.

 

As to the first. She is of the belief that men will be men and it is up to the woman to keep her legs closed. She believes that her husband is just so hot he attracts women like flies and like any other res blooded male he succombs to their charms. He merely gave in to my advices (and those of us before and after) after we wore him down. We broke the girl code and are scum of society. He is just a man. she has cheated herself but with single men. Honestly, she is a pretty messed up individual. That is merely an example where being angry at the ap is unbalanced.

[Mal78]

The thing I don't get is how an OM or OW acts shocked when the cheater does the same thing. They are just shocked and astounded when a cheater ends up letting them down.

 

I agree. On any level.

-they lied

-they broke a promises

-they won't commit

-they have boundary issues

 

-they cheated (on their BS and you)

 

Then the frantic, "I can't believe he/she did that to me"... REALLY?!? You are surprised? Again, you do know/remember they are married right?

 

"But this was different, he/she told me he/she loved me"!

 

Pfft.

[Mal78]

Then there are those spouses who couldn't fathom in a million years stepping outside of their marriage. They just couldn't do it. They made a commitment to their spouse and that was like a sealed in concrete bond in their mind. Nothing could possibly break that. The thought is never entertained because it's not ever a forethought.

 

Ya.... There are *those* spouses.

 

The, "it work both ways" logic that if you are not satisfying the marriage in some way makes no sense. As spouses you work with that. Some spouses are sick, are debilitated or incapable of intimacy due to chronic illness and spouses STILL don't flounder. They made a commitment. Period. And they would honour that to the end. Sex/intimacy/passion isn't everything and it's pretty selfish to seek that over doing what you can to be the honorable spouse.

 

The OW/OM is more or less a tool. A "plaything". Sadly, an object of desire. Unless, of course it becomes emotional.

[Woggle]

I agree. On any level.

-they lied

-they broke a promises

-they won't commit

-they have boundary issues

 

-they cheated (on their BS and you)

 

Then the frantic, "I can't believe he/she did that to me"... REALLY?!? You are surprised? Again, you do know/remember they are married right?

 

"But this was different, he/she told me he/she loved me"!

 

Pfft.

 

It makes as much sense as investing with Bernie Madoff and expecting not to get scammed.

[Tayla]

There is no honor amongst Thieves.

[travelbug1996]

The WS is the ONLY ONE TO BLAME. That person made a committment not the AP.

 

The WS was the one to make the decision to involve another person in their marriage.

 

The responsible party here for the problem in the marriage is the WS. I have a friend who insists on blaming the AP saying she knew he was married. What she doesn't get is that you can't hold the AP to the same standard that you hold your spouse. Blaming the AP is just another way to keep from beating the WS's ass with a frozen chicken.

[whichwayisup]

The WS is the ONLY ONE TO BLAME. That person made a committment not the AP.

 

The WS was the one to make the decision to involve another person in their marriage.

 

The responsible party here for the problem in the marriage is the WS. I have a friend who insists on blaming the AP saying she knew he was married. What she doesn't get is that you can't hold the AP to the same standard that you hold your spouse. Blaming the AP is just another way to keep from beating the WS's ass with a frozen chicken.

 

You are right, one can't hold an AP to the same standard as the WS but that doesn't mean the AP doesn't hold some responsibility in all this.

 

What if the AP was known to the BS? A friend, or an in law? Let's say your spouse had an affair with your best friend...Would you not put ANY blame on the best friend? Would you feel betrayed?

 

An AP isn't an innocent bystander, they helped cause the betrayal and willingly had an A with the MP.

[No Limit]

Depends on the dynamic. It's not like all OM and OW knew what they were getting into from the get go. Some don't even know what's going on until D-Day happens (there are predator MM and MW too you know). But there are also plenty of predator OM and OW who will take extra pleasure from the thought of tricking that poor chap or bitch at home while he's/she's the one having the real fun with their WS.

[MissBee]

I think the OW/OM is responsible for their part in the affair and the choice to help someone cheat. But the WS is solely responsible for ruining their marriage. They have the bigger responsibility to their spouse and family while the OM/OW who maybe doesn't personally know them can think of them as out of sight and out of mind, whereas the WS actively lies to his spouse and family everyday and is faced with that reality each and every time for as long as the A is going.

 

In my own A he was in a LTR but not married. I didn't know his status at the beginning but by time I found out I was in love and it was hard to stop. But I do know that many things made it easier like: we were long distance, I didn't run in his circle and never met or knew his SO. That made their relationship out of mind and sight for me and he also fueled that. The fact that I was a single woman, not cheating on my own partner, and "over there" and knew nothing of her made it easier for me to tolerate the situation whereas I would wonder how it felt on his end since he was cheating on someone and had to lie or omit things whereas in my own life I didn't have to. Nevertheless, I still felt guiltier than he did.

 

I didn't pursue him neither did I know his status, but I eventually did and stayed for a while and I think that's my own choice and responsibility then and there but I would say he is definitely more responsible for the betrayal of his SO and if his life had fallen apart it would be his own fault.

[beatcuff]

I think the OW/OM is responsible for their part in the affair and the choice to help someone cheat.

 

i am quoting this, but it is a theme throughout this thread.

 

using that logic then the BS must take some responsibility for not tending the M.

[purplesorrow]

i am quoting this, but it is a theme throughout this thread.

 

using that logic then the BS must take some responsibility for not tending the M.

 

i didn't see anyone say a bs has no responsibility for the marriage. Both spouses do. It has nothing to do with the WS deciding to cheat.

[carhill]

Well I just want to state that unless you are an OW or OM who did not know your partner was married, you are partially to blame for someone else's marriage, life, and family to fall apart.

 

Humans are individually responsible for every act, word and action they perpetrate upon the world. No one else can do or say it but them. It's called existing and having free will.

 

I am so tired of reading how the AP bears no significance whatsoever to their partners M. I'm also tired of reading how they think the A is partially the BS's fault.

 

I've read the gamut, reflecting the wide disparity in perspectives humans display, as nearly any discussion between groups of humans will exemplify. Conflict is part of our nature.

 

I really truly and honestly think this is faulty thinking on the OW and OM's part. Similar to the faulty thinking of the WS.

 

That's a valid opinion.

 

Does anyone else agree with this? I am just always dumbfounded by the responses of OW and OM. They remind me a lot of the WS.

 

Yes, and I was an OM and MM in my past life. I first came to that realization when encountering MW's who firmly believed that EA's were not affairs since no genitals were involved. Generally, back then, a generation or two ago, affairs were viewed a bit differently than they are today. Times, and humans, have changed, as have our perspectives.

[TrustedthenBusted]

I have two experiences being sort of an "OM"

 

One was a married woman who really was in an unhappy marriage. ( as she divorced about a year later ) She came on to me at a party, and I was married to my pregnant wife at the time. Oddly, my response to her was not " Sorry, I'm married." It was " Sorry, I can't do this to your husband, he's a good guy." Much later, I explored this response in MC.

 

The second time almost being an OM was after D-Day where I spent about a week seeking a revenge affair. Didn't take me long to find a willing participant, and after a few exchanges back and forth, she told me her husband was currently deployed. That was enough for me. I wasn't about to bang some soldier's wife while he was off at war. I was instantly disgusted by HER, and myself, and that was pretty much the end of my RA quest.

 

Yeah, the OP is just as much to blame. They know what they are doing.

[Clay]

Meh the last part of your statment seem more like a control issue and waste of money if you know you want to give a second chance. And unnecesarily disruptive to the children.

 

As to the first. She is of the belief that men will be men and it is up to the woman to keep her legs closed. She believes that her husband is just so hot he attracts women like flies and like any other res blooded male he succombs to their charms. He merely gave in to my advices (and those of us before and after) after we wore him down. We broke the girl code and are scum of society. He is just a man. she has cheated herself but with single men. Honestly, she is a pretty messed up individual. That is merely an example where being angry at the ap is unbalanced.

 

I think that if you and your husband decided not divorce that is your choice. Some people can repair there marriages. I think its just no where as often as we would all like it to be. I think primarily when being betrayed its more of protecting myself and my children. Its not longer about the cheater or there affair partner so if you want to call it a form of control then yes its my thoughts on controlling my own life.

 

Clay

[Quiet Storm]

The WS is the ONLY ONE TO BLAME. That person made a committment not the AP.

 

The WS was the one to make the decision to involve another person in their marriage.

 

The responsible party here for the problem in the marriage is the WS. I have a friend who insists on blaming the AP saying she knew he was married. What she doesn't get is that you can't hold the AP to the same standard that you hold your spouse. Blaming the AP is just another way to keep from beating the WS's ass with a frozen chicken.

 

 

But why do you think that just because she is blaming the AP for her part (being an inconsiderate and selfish person), that she is not blaming her husband for his part (being an inconsiderate and selfish person that betrayed her)?

 

I see this over & over again- the idea that if OW gets blamed that the WS is somehow exonerated.

 

Why can't both be blamed for each of their roles?

 

Sure, it's naive for us to expect total strangers to keep other women's husbands faithful. I know there are a lot of messed up people in the world, and I would never be dumb enough to expect that all people have values and will do the right thing.

 

But, if my husband were to cheat on me, I could blame OW for being a crappy person, while simultaneously blaming my husband for being a crappy person that cheated on me.

[BetrayedH]

i am quoting this, but it is a theme throughout this thread.

 

using that logic then the BS must take some responsibility for not tending the M.

 

You're making some serious leaps of "logic" there. Who said the BS wasn't tending the marriage?